I have searched the archives and cannot find a single dyno chart comparing the long tubes and shorties headers.

I was online browsing through and found the Hooker 2055s (so expensive) and found some hedman 68470 or something like that.

Anyway, I don't know which type of header is better, either longtubes or shorties. I was told that longtubes tend to flow better and gain you more hp then shorties, but yet when I searched about the hooker 2055s they said that those headers are the most profitable money can buy.

So which is it? Longtubes or shorties? I am gonna be getting an Edelbrock (or Hooker) catback exhaust system pretty soon for the car, so I figured that I should go ahead and start shopping for some headers as well.

 

Hooker 2055's...do whatever it takes to get these headers. Take out a 4th mortage on the house, sell your children, whatever. These are fantastic headers, I would not hesitate to put them on another 3rd gen in a heartbeat. I have not bottomed out since they've been installed either.

If its a drag queen, you'll want your fancy LT's, x pipe, 5 inch catback, all that jaz...but if its a street/strip car, and you don't wanna spend 2k on custom exhaust, go 2055.

A+ on the hooker 2055's. Amen.

 

hmmm, thats exactly the kind of reply I would expect from a hooker 2055 owner


The reason why I asked though is because I was searching google and came across an ls1/lt1 forum and the guy was asking which was better long tubes or shorties.

Everyone who replied said that shorties were a waste of time and money and that long tubes were the best way to go.

I guess it doesn't really apply to me seeing as how those guys have 300hp+LS1 monsters (which by the way is my hopefully next car)

About how much hp would I gain from getting those headers. I will be tuning the car no doubt...heh, I have to make a mental note to myself to be ready to chip tune before I go out and buy the headers.

EDIT: Does anyone know where I can get the 2055s for cheap...I tried ebay, but my luck warrants that I shall not find it on there. The only place I see that has them is summit racing and they are about 750 dollars...which....kinda hurts but it can be achieved.

 

I went with the Hedman 68481's (shorties)
100% 50-state street legal & emission friendly..
Came with y-pipe, and all the parts to install it on
your existing exhaust system, I opted to weld mine ..
But the install is completely weld-free..IF you dont
want the Emissions gear on the headers, It is a
different part number ..I think its the part number
you mentioned above.

I went to my Local speed shop that distributes
Hedman. I got my 68481 kit for just under $500.00
The 68481 hedmans are for the LB9/L98 TPI motor,
Im not sure if its L03 TBI friendly or not ..

Quality was superb, and installation a breeze..
It took me 20 mins to hang the headers, fit the
Y-pipe..and set the rest of the exhaust. Also..
Directions were very clear to understand and
even sent me some stickers

I did have to remove the power-steering/alternator rack, and the valve covers to install them, other than that..they fit right in

I dont have anyother comparison, other than I think
the Hookers, Hedman, and even the SLP shorties look
similar in design, IMO

and, yes.. shorties are NOT the best choice if your striving for performance/ET's .. Long tubes do/will fit in our cars, but it takes fabrication.

 

Roger that.

2055s areok I guess. I ran shorty hedmans, then shorty SLP's on my thirdgen. now I run long tubes on the vette. Probably shoulda ran long tubes on the thirdgen though.

-- Joe

 

JEGS High Performance - Hooker Headers Super Comp Shortie Headers


only 2055 ive found so far

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...tegoryId=10605

and theres the hedman

 

haha... I originally had Hedman LT's, but i got tired of rebuilding my y pipe every 3 weeks...

...the 2055's put me back about 400 bones IIRC.

If you need every last poney, go LT's by all means. If you want something 100% bolt in, hassle free, wanna keep all your ground clearance, and you drive it on the street, go 2055.

Good luck!
Brandon

 

I'm making 310 RWHP with Edelbrock shorties. Do you think I would gain that much from LTs? Doubt it. An extra 10-15 HP isn't worth the $400+ for the LTs IMO.

 

Yea, The Hedman Link is correct, the 3rd pair of Headers are the
68481's ..The only thing it doesnt show for the # 68481's is ..

They do come with Ball & socket fittings & make sure you mention
that to Hedman if your going with the 68481's ..My package has
the A.I.R injection system with the "user-friendly" ball & socket fittings

Good luck, and whatever Header package you choose, they all
perform great and most are simple to install..

-Later

 

My machinest was tinkering with a motor on the dyno a few weeks ago. 1 5/8" headers, then switched to 1 3/4" long tubes. picked up 60hp.

-- Joe

 

I believe it

 

what can be expected from stock to hookers with high flow cat already have the exhaust from there

 

Anything other than the stock manifolds..

You will see a dramatic difference, not only in performance and
throttle response, but also fuel-economy .. I loved the way my
car sounded, felt and performed after the headers were installed.

A High-flo catalyct converter will only help with exhaust flow, but alot of people tend to "gut" thier cats (cheaper)

 

longtubes are the only way to go if you're ever going to make any decent power.
the only reason people on here even consider shorties:

• the stock manifolds are so bad that ANYTHING is an improvement. so they do see a gain here. (unlike the LS1s you read about.. their manifolds are almost shorty headers..)
• some are emissions legal
• shorties are easier to fit since they follow the stock exhaust routing

thing is, 90% of the people on here never make big power. most dont race. alot are just starting out on their first project car... they just dont know because they havent done it yet...


anyway, get longtubes and get a trans crossmember made so you can have good exhaust clearance, and you'll be fine.

 

What kind of longtubes should I get though....

And those hooker 2055s on jegs, does it come with the y-pipe?

If I get long tubes, I don't want to take out my tranny or anything like that....

Does anyone have a link to a dyno chart comparing shorties and longtubes on a 3rd gen camaro?

 

let me help you with the chart.
stock 305 - shortys vs longtubes: little diff.
modded 305 - shortys vs longtubes: longtubes bearly make any more power.
basic performance SBC - shortys vs longtubes: longtubes clearly make more power up top.
good street/strip 406 SBC - shortys vs longtubes: huge diff between choking on shortys and good longtubes.


what are you expecting for a chart? the motors kinda suck to begin with, so they're going to be modded.. and comparing two modded motors is like apples to oranges..

 

Yea, the Hooker 2055 kit comes with a Y-pipe (pic)

Longtubes will not hit the tranny, or anything in that area, The
Problem with Long tubes is the point at which the Header pipes
are collected .. They are so "low" that it would effect ground
clearance, and you could damage your headers, If they hang
too low .. Also, you might have starter issues when running LT's.

I have not seen flow charts comparing Shorties/LT's .. But,
LT's provide a certain amount a back-pressure that allows for
greater exhaust equalization, which optimizes HP/TQ numbers

Good Luck

 

... I wouldnt say that, that's going too far

 

hmmmm, well i guess I know what I have to do now.

I just basically plan on doing full exhaust, new intake manifold (stock is crap), a cam, and some gears.

I don't see myself going into heads or anything deep like that. I believe, I can make it to high 14s with some chip tuning if I do the above mentioned.

I just wanted to know if I will definitely see a noticeable gain by going shorties. And btw, why the hell is summit's brand of the hooer 2055s like double the price of the jegs one. Am I missing something here.


Also are the Hedmans any good?

 

I love em ..

I paid $467.00 +tax for the complete 68481 kit at a local
speed shop .. Again, If you have the ability to go LT's, I might
go that route

If you want a street-legal performance car, I reccomend the
Hedman 68481's or the Hooker 2055's to anybody

and also, you will see a nice gain in HP/TQ as long
AS YOU PULL THOSE STOCK MANIFOLDS OFF !!!

 

This is a good thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exha...ion-chart.html

 

I looked at that post earlier and I couldn't understand what he was talking about.

 

Since the post was old, some of the links were outdated..
You kinda gotta decipher the thread.. Ill sum it up for you

Hooker 2055's: The Best, Durable, and easy install

Hedman 68481's: 2nd best, Light weight ...

SLP: Most expensive, But a very well-thought out header

Flowtech: Stay away from them, they are garbage

Edelbrock TES: Equally matched with 2055's & 68481's

 

I heard something about the Edelbrock TES headers being not much better than stock headers.

I dont know if I am confusing them with another edelbrock header. I know I read something about it somewhere...


EDIT: Meh, i guess I am just gonna go ahead and order the Hooker 2055s, I do hope I don't regret it in the long run, and I do hope it gives me noticeable gain.

I'll probably mate the headers to either a hooker or edelbrock catback. I have no idea which catback is better, but from what i heard, choosing either of them you won't go wrong. My car should be substantially louder once I get headers on (and an open cutout)

 

Ive heard mixed opinions about the Edelbrock TES system..

as before, Hooker 2055's, SLP shorties, or Hedman
68481's are the main contenders for our F-body's

I went with the Hedman's because they were
cheaper than both Hooker 2055's and SLP shorties ..

Also, It might feel like a waste of cash at first,
then you drive the car .. and quickly forget about
what you paid for them, Its a very noticable gain

 

ok,

for a drag car, decent power... if you think 13seconds is fast, then i suppose shortys could be considered an alternitive.. but really... if you want decent power from my perspective, you need longtubes.
you also need to junk any SBC with less then a 4" bore, ditch the stock heads, change intakce, and.. well replace the entire drivetrain of the car... lol... but longtube headers are a good start.

 

...his car is not a track car, its a TBI 305

I cant believe you even reccomended going longtubes on that kind of application .. ridiculous

He wants a bolt-on system that is hassle-free ..

Also, I know what longtubes and shorties can do ..
You are correct .. in the long run, LT's are the way!!

If I ever take my GTA off the road it will get
all the "race" goodies ..

 

I've seen a 91 z28 with a 406, miniram, slp 1 3/4" headers run an 11.8 at baytown. That's pretty quick for a street car.

 

..and I bet you that the only reason he still has the SLP
1 3/4 Shorties on ..is because he wants to BE STREET-LEGAL

 

id go longtubes on everything, but mostly because i dont want to buy a second set of headers next month/year/whenever when i start changing the motor.. if you really want to get down to it, coated headers cost about as much as a budget 350 shortblock.. id reccomend you do that first.


also, im completely ignoring "street legal" and "emissions"... mostly because it doesnt consern me.. if you cant hold a straight face and work around "issues" in your area, just dont mod the car at all... *shrug*

in anycase, yes, im talking long term for the longtubes... short term "i just want headers even though i have a dead stock 305" yea.... get the shorties.


and im sure you can dig up several guys running 11s with shortys... and i can find LOTS MORE with longtubes... i always admire the guys that do the best they can with what they have, moreso then the guys that have all the parts and go faster, but never take full advantage of what they have..... however, i dont see the point in limiting yourself with restrictions unless there are some rules governing it.. and then, cars that have to skirt around rules like that, generally cost more...
honestly, its not hard to make a SBC car go fast.. but when you're on a budget, you just have to toss the right parts on it the first time, even if it means being somewhat mis matched until you can go on from there...

 

I am not really looking to build a track racing machine of any kind.

I just want a moderately powerful mid 14 second street racing car. Mr. Dude_1 I can sort of understand why you would recommend LTs, considering you have an LS1 powerhouse, but given the facts, the TBI's stock intake manifold is pathetic enough to take any sort of header.

I am not dismissing the option of getting a longtube header...I really just want everything to bolt up nicely into the stock exhaust without too much fabrication work needed.

But can anyone answer the question of why the summit hooker 2055s are double the price of the jegs one. There has to be some difference between the two.

And TPI, if the hedmen headers worked well for your L98...I could basically assume that they should be more than enough for my 305.

 

in that case, i wouldnt buy any headers at all.





just a guess based on experience.... ones probably coated, the others not.

 

No disrespect to Mr.Dude at all

I admire that you feel that way .. "all out or nothing at all"
Its very commendable, and.. that attitude is what you need
in order to be in the "winner's circle"

But for us weekend warrior guys, Shorties are a god-send..
especially in a emissions-state like Arizona

As for the Price diffrence between Jegs & Summit, I have no
clue why that is, hahaha

And the Hedman's on my L98 are great, Ill post pictures tonight!

Either get 2055's or 68481's .. other than that, Mr.Dude is correct .. LT's are the best was to get as much power out of your exhaust system

 

so basically....

I shouldnt buy headers, because I dont want to strip my car down for race use at the track....

I am just basically saying, I want a noticeable street car...

I will run the car at the track yes, for 1/4 mile times, and yes i will dyno it when i want to dyno it.

But its also going to be my daily driver....

 

Daily driver, L03, definetly shorties. The first reason you gave for longtubes was that the 2055s were to expensive???? Unless you want to empty your bank account to redo your entire exhaust after you get longtubes then get shorties. I dont think there is any question in your case

 

Here are a few snapshots of my L98 with the 68481's ..

The pics are kinda blurry, because I took them on a cell phone!!!

These photos are 2-weeks old, but you can see them if you look
closely ..I pretty sure the 2055's or the 68481's will fit on a L03 TBI car

IF you want proof that this engine is mine, Just ask
ill take another photo with something in it to prove
that it is mine, rofl

anyway, Good luck

 

Or he wanted to drive it on the street without banging the collectors on some long tubes.

Also, it is possible to make more peak horsepower with shorties over long tubes. I read an article once, not that I believe everything they say, but they tested a 400 hp small block with shorties and longtubes. The shorties made a couple more peak hp, the longtubes made a couples more peak ft-lbs.

 

hahaha, yea good point

Thats usually the case when deciding which headers to
run on our cars

 

long tubes without a doubt be it they are heddman or hookers. i have had both and gained et's with them and have helped a friend install shorties and he didnt see any change in et. so for me long tubes.

 

I would go with the 2055's or equivalent if I were you. The shorties with y-pipe will be able to bolt up and route in the stock location, whereas you would have to fab up an exhaust with the long tubes. Since you aren't going all out you will benefit more from the 2055's, and later on if you build a motor that would require a long tube then you can just sell the 2055's pretty easily...I just sold my Hooker 1 5/8 shorties to another member on here very easily, and they didn't include the y-pipe. I would say that the price difference between Jegs' and Summit is the metallic ceramic coating that is available on them, if you can afford it, I would definatlely get it, you can just call them with the part number and they will tell you the price difference with or without the coating.

 

LTs all the way. Shorties are a waste of money imo unless you have emissions requirements.

However I live in CA, and I run LTs and ORY sooo

 

From my own personal experiance and from the books I read, HP gain from headers is gained from the increase in header tube diameter regardless of it's length. Any proffessed gain in hp going from shortie to LT is usually because the tube dia has increased or perhaps the shortie design was an inefficient one. Tube length however alters the torque curve, bringing peak torque down on the rpm scale. tube length itself wont give you more hp nessesarily, but it will give you more 'streetable' torque.

 

no. im just saying.... if you're sticking to crap like that, you're not going to have a noticeable street car anyway. so if you're keeping the emissions stuff, and not going to have a fast car anyway, why have the hassle of modifications? your manifolds arnt going to come loose. they arnt going to leak. they wont rust thru, and your emissions guy isnt going to look at them and become suspicious... plus you'll have the cash to do something else.
it sounds to me like you're modding for the sake of modding, and not with a overall plan or goal... thats just a great way to waste/lose money and not gain anything.. but hey, whatever.. ive only been there, done that.. and when i was there, i probly wouldnt have listened to the same advice either... really, theres only two ways this will go... you'll get into cars, and ditch them along with half your mods.. or you'll eventually sell the car, with a loss on the "investment" of the mods.. heh my
if you really want to mod it like that.. set some goals and a realistic plan.. maybe that plan does include shorties.. but this plan for a 15second car doesnt sound very appealing.. lol

if you're breaking the bank on a $200 exhaust, then i wouldnt be modding the exhaust either... you dotn need to redo the entire exhaust.. it meets up in the trans tunnel in the I pipe.

why $200 on a $100(or less) exhaust?
because ~$100 also goes to a new crossmember that clears the drivers side exhaust pipe, so you DONT have a problem with the collectors, or the ypipe... hell i drove with my car slammed for 3 years.. never hit the headers on anything other then some crap i ran over on the hwy one time....

but obviously, you wouldnt know too much about that... you probably havent been doing this very long. you can easily tell by your next statement.

thats cute.

headers are a PITA to ship and sell, but yea, i suppose he could sell them... but thats kinda like taking a extra intermediate step..

actually the tuned length is what can help scavenge exhaust out... most cars and most headers are around 32"...
the header diameter effects the velocity at witch the exhaust moves. too small chokes it, too large and you'll have stalling at lower CFM...
in anycase, the length has a potentially large effect on power output... i suggest reading a couple more books.

 

From my own personal experience, I'd reccomed long tubes only on really high powered street/strip cars. They're just a tad bit overkill if you're only mods are bolt-ons or you're running a mild head and cam set-up.

I run JetHot LT's on my LT1 and when I first installed them, their was a noticlable loss of torque at the low end. From 4500+ and up however, the HP increase was definitely there. Keep in mind though, this was on a 500+ RWHP car. And just as importantly, it is on a 4th gen Fbody that has much more ground clearance than a 3 gen (even then, I have rubbed the headers a time or two)

I've seen countless dyno's with cars putting putting out in excess of 500RWHP (N/A mind you) with shorties so it's not as if their a major restriction in exhaust flow. Quite frankly, they'll handle just about any amount of HP you're ever likely to make. But as I said, if you're building up a serious 550+ HP street/strip car and you're looking to get every ounce of HP out of your build, go with the LT's. They will make a difference.....

On our cars though, I'd personally reccomend shorties. One of the biggest reasons being, they offer much better ground clearance. My new SLP's have no problems with ground clearance, gave me a night and day performance increase over the factory manifolds and the 1 3/4 primaries, will flow every bit as as much as 1 5/8 LT's if not more.


LT's are fine if that's what you want, just make you're making the HP to actually need them. Also the ground clearance.

My SLP's:

..

My JetHot LT's:
..


shorties:

pros:

- generally cost less and come with matching y-pipe
- easier to install
- tremedous gains in hp and especially torque over factory manifolds throughout the entire power band but especially down low and mid-range)
- emmisions compliant (some can be had with no air tubes, if emissions aren't a concern)
- Ground clearance

cons:

- If you're looking for all-out hp, LT's will make more hp
- more difficult to fabricate a duel exhaust system for (something you might want to consider if your looking to get a duel exhaust)


Long Tube's:

Pros:

- If your pushing 500+ hp, LT's will be an advantage over shorties up top for sure

Cons:

- Most are NOT emissions complient
- Ground clearance in most cases will suffer (not all, but definetely most)
-No y-pipe. You either have to order one from Mufflex or have a shop custom build one for you (or) you get custom duels

Your call.

 

I do have a plan for the car. I am not modding it for the sake of modding, quit putting words in my mouth

My plan is to do full exhaust, then gears, then cam and intake. I was reading through the header chart explained and I noticed that, the Hooker 2410s I believe they mentioned in that chart weren't as good as the hooker 2055s. So if anyone can send me a part number to a really good Longtube header they have then that would make my decision a bit easier.

I helped a friend install longtube headers on his car and I must say, it wasn't very fun, but it could've been much worse.

Whatever mates nicely to my edelbrock catback I'll be happy

 

a hooker 2055 setup w/ a 3" catback, some gears, and a stall will give ur 305TBI a new meaning to life...

 

why $200 on a $100(or less) exhaust?

What does this mean?

because ~$100 also goes to a new crossmember that clears the drivers side exhaust pipe, so you DONT have a problem with the collectors, or the ypipe... hell i drove with my car slammed for 3 years.. never hit the headers on anything other then some crap i ran over on the hwy one time....

but obviously, you wouldnt know too much about that... you probably havent been doing this very long. you can easily tell by your next statement.



thats cute



Well, I've had my camaro for over 7 years now and been modding it for over 6 years. But you are probably talking about bull****ing on the internet, in which case I 've been doing that longer than you as my other account has a registration date of June 2000.

What is slammed to you? 1 inch lower than stock? I still drive around, not used to, with drop spindles in the front and lowering springs in the rear, 2" drop, not slammed but low.

You sound like a typical ls1 owner, know-it-all and argumentative. Someone get this man some p*u*s*s*y!

 

is the only differnce between the hooker 2460 and the 2055's that the 2460's dont have air tubes and the 2055's do?

 

uhh, ok. good for you?

yet, i can quote properly, and you....?


im not sure where this came from... but my car was slammed pretty damn low.. upper lip of the front fenderwell was flush with the edge of the sideall of the tire.. no gap.
only reason its raised is im now running moroso trick springs up front, and i have 300#s off the nose.. it would be higher, but the Kmember and A arm have a 2" drop built into them, so im now just a tad lower the OEM stock height.


id love some *****. but if you do a search, i was just as much of a ***** before i changed motors.

 

What's your other account?