You were saying that I haven't been doing this long and well 6 years isn't that long but it's not like I just got into it.


haha, you're right!


Right on bro. Oh, well to sum it up, SHORTIES ARE THE BEST! haha j/k

 

This one.

 

guys I don't wanna risk the topic being closed down because of an argument.

Let's keep our cool. So here is where I am at, if I want more power in the long run, I go with the longtubes, if I want to get the power I can out of what I have now. I get shorties.


Do I have the basic idea down or do I have to be further slapped with the exhaust pipe?

 

More or less. Again, it just depends on how much power you plan on making. 350? 450? 500+

I still say that on anything short of 500+hp, any increase from switching to long tubes will be negligable at best. They'll move your power curve up higher, which will cost you torque down low. (I realise you can counter that with lower gears and a higher stall, but I'm just saying....)

In my opinion, LT's are certainly not worth the trouble of having ground clearance issues, the hastle of having a custom ypipe/duel exhaust fabricated and all the extra expenses of parts and labour associated with creating a custom exhaust if your not planning on building a serious street/strip machine.


What is your goal with this motor, power wise, may I ask?

 

Ok good.

-- Joe

 

Why, you gonna ban that one too

 

hahah, this thread got alil out of control back there

 

I've never banned anyone.

-- Joe

 

To clarify, and then the thread can get back on topic, I locked h-town z's second account (mpayne). I do not believe there is a good reason to be actively using 2 accounts.

Also, the word filter is in place for a reason. Bypassing it is breaking TGO's official rules.

 

is there a list of the words still under the filter?
i remember at one time the words cracker and ***** were under there...


edit: i guess r!cer still is.. lol..

 

My goal is to get maybe 250-275hp at the crank. I just wanna run in the 14s....thats all. Like I said before, all I have now is full exhaust, chip tune, and a cam. Not much, but I have to have some money over for an LS1 Z28

 

Seriously?

You got the cash to go and buy a 4th gen Ls1 F-body??

or was that sarcasm?

 

you can pickup a 99+ fbody starting at 6 or 7k now, so thats not impossible..

 

pffft, not in AZ...the cheapest car I found was a 96 blue Z28 with 62k miles on it, 6spd transmission, and he wanted 7500 for it. If I had the money then I probably would've bought that car.

The only time I have ever found an LS1 car retail for 9k was a black WS6 TransAm also a 6spd with about 64k on the clock. That was about a year ago and it sold within two days.

I think my only chance of ever finding an LT1/LS1 car is either out of state or on ebay...which is essentially the same thing sometimes.

And to answer TPI's question its not a sarcastic comment, I am probably one of the biggest LS1 fanboys you will ever meet in your entire life. It's been my dream engine for well over 6 years now.

However, cocky LS1 owners typically get on my nerves however, because they underestimate alot of LT1 cars as well...I am a fan of the LT1s too but I prefer LS1s.

But its like pizza, its good either way.

just to get back on topic....headers....i think i'll go with shorties for now....some will hate me, some will love me.

EDIT: Mr_Dude, just out of utmost curiosity, I see you swapped in an LS1 motor into the camaro body style. I was just going to ask you, about how much did that cost you in total? I was thinking somewhere down the line, when my car decides to fully take a dump on me, I might swap in a 350 LT1. I am willing to bet your car is low 13s.

 

I just found it unlikely to be modding a 305 TBI car, when his
intention was to buy a LS1 car

Either way, Ill be happy for him whatever way he goes

 

well, total for the LS1 swap, or total for what ive done with the car?
if you just want to toss in a LS1swap, expect the cost of the pullout engine/trans drivetrain plus $1000... less if you do things yourself, more if you want everything plug and play.. the pullouts for engine/trans go for around 3k to 5k.. if you think about it, by the time you add up the cost for SBC heads that flow that much, EFI intake that flows the same, six speed swap, ect... its a steal.
and no.. the car currently runs over 2 seconds faster then low 13s.. lol. if i only ran a 13, id have to shoot myself.

 

Probally is, but .. we are young

That's alot of cash and alot of knowledge of a LS1..
ID be almost afraid to try a LS1 swap on my 3rd gen

Probally because I dont know alot about the powerplant/electronics and I have something good
in there already, but If I didnt have that.. Id probally
be willing to try it, lol


I Give ya props for accomplishing it!!

 

I appologize.

 

honestly, its not that hard.
with motormounts and a T56 crossmember, it bolts right in... torque arm, driveshaft and all.. physically, its no harder then any other engine change.
for the EFI... hook ignition power to the pink wires, constant power to the orange, and a couple grounds, and it runs... if you dont want to setup the computer, people do it cheap and easy.. its really not hard when you get down to it, it just seems hard.

 

hey dudie....

what was the bore on the Ls1 again? lol

 

too damn small... thats why my next motor is based on the new L92 block.


and now... i put you on ignore here too.

 

awesome.... I would stick with tuned shorties... rather match the whole engine for torque anyways. AS for the 275hp on a 305.. its pretty easy...

do some headers,, swap in a stock tpi, though modded if you can ebay one.. a nice sized cam and full exhaust.. should put you right in the ball park.. If I change injectors and do the exhaust I should have that no problem.

 

im gonna end up getting the shorties I think...

 

Yea man,

Shorties are your best bet, I firmly believe your first pair
of headers should be some shorties ..

You'll get exprience installing and dealing with the mishaps
of having headers, and believe me.. you will find that having
headers is alot different than the maitenence-free manifolds.

Again, you get very noticable performance, and have streetable
exhaust system without having the exprience of a seasoned welder or mechanic .. and its inexpensive


Let us know what Headers who choose, and post some pics

 

Yeah I honestly can't think of any reason at all that you'd want to have shorties for the type of power your looking at.

You made the right choice, don't second guess yourself.

 

only reason i went with the LT's was to scare the r!cers away from me j/k i had a set of edelbrock headers on mine and was told that it was one of the biggest problems that was holding my setup back (383 motor, cammed, heads) i went with LT's and man what a difference. its like a totaly different car now. next thing is to get rid of the heads cause i heard that was also an issue (i am using afr's 185) the only thing i wish i did was to get a dyno run on the old headers and compare them to the lt's

 

Low 11's out of a stock LS1 ?

-- Joe

 

I want proof
what I want you to have in that picture is my car with that motor ni my car and me burning the tires trying to get away.


if I can get a picture like that I'll believe you till then your full of crap

 

I spent $20 on some used Headman Longtubes, 1 5/8" primaries, 3" collectors... they were made for a 2nd gen Camaro but with a little help from a hammer they fit right in...

It felt like a different engine after that.. i was running some crappy Flowtech shorties at first... I'll never go back.

Do it right the first time, sure it's a pain in the *** but atleast you've earned that 6 pack of beer...

 

its not quite stock anymore...lol im hoping to see a 6.99 or better at my local 1/8th before the end of the year.


edit:
and even stock internal, low 11s arnt unbelieveable.. with the weight of my car, im right there with the faster SI cars... i couldnt see 10s without gutting it more, but 11s would be possible if i went with an all drag setup...

 

rofl

I go screw around with the camera phone tonight and see
what funny pictures I cant come up with ...

I think im goiing to put my cat in the pic with a sign around his
neck that says "TPI's Sh**"

 

first off hello all .

second there is alot of BADDDD misinformation in this thread.

1. headman headers suck ...yes the 68481's ... and their coated couterpart 66481's , they got dinky little flanges , and horible merging onto the flanges . The true order of shorties is as follows . SLP , Hooker 2055 , headman , Flotech.
2. Everyone seems to think longtubes make more power up top . Not so. The longer primary creats more down low power if anything. Same as intakes.

You can't make serious power with a shorty. Not true. Also people who actually care about that last bit of power , have a set of headers made the exact length and with the correct collecter length/ primary length/diameter.

"Dyno test with headers haveing primary lengths adjustable in 3 "increments show that between 24-36 " , have only minor effect on the power curve, altough the longer pipes did favour the bottom endsince a typical street header can have pipes rangeing from 24-36 inches"- David Visard"How to build a Chevy Smallblock on a budget"

So to me that means a shorter primary( shorty) will favor the topend moreso then a longtube. Now take my 1 3/4 SLPs and flow them against a set of 1 3/4 longtubes for the same car, which one will flow higher in the RPM's ..... easy a shorty.


hear is a picture of Headman junk 68481 flanges ... way to skinny and look at the wasy the primary is stuffed in there . compared well lets say to SLP . The flange is way fatter , and the primaries aren't stuffed into the mounting flang

Headman 68481



SLP





Hopefully I shed some light on it for some.

 

Anyway. I never used Hedman 68481, but i've used the 68471 and I thought they were a nice set of headers. The SLP's had bigger primaries, but the flanges tend to warp, mainly due to the thickness and design. Slotting the bolt holes will help get them bolted up, but doesnt do much to help port alignment.

Flowtech are garbage. Tried 'em. tried hedmans, liked them. Tried SLP's, they were a pita, but the bigger primaries are desirable. Tried a few different hookers, not the 2055's. Running hooker long tubes on my '87 right now.

I think for a thirdgen, shorty headers are the best bet for a street car. I never went long tubes on any of my thirdgens, and I had a TON of them. But when I moved up to the vette, the obvious choice was long tubes, becaue well, they fit like factory. Plus, i'm planning on seeing anywehre from mid to high 400s n/a, and then a 200 shot on top of that. Most of the guys on here, see 350 hp if they're lucky and have no need for long tubes.

-- Joe

 

I don't see how SLP can warp , they have an independant flange for each primary. except the inboard 2 . Being 3/8 think I can;t see them warping

 

only thing I can maybe see is with the seperate flanges maybe each primary itself might warp a little bit making fit a little hard to get them fitted up even more so if they twist. or sometimes with the smaller flange it might be pulling the outer ears in and without the piece holding the prmiaries together being a little more prone to bend like such


those flanges look funny
most all the flanges I have are at least 1/2" or bigger

 

What happens is you get the center bolted, but not the outer two, or the center and one, and have to pry the crap outta one of them.

1/2" flange? No way. even slp is like 7/6" at max. flowtech and hedman are 5/16, and hooker 3/8..

I take that back about 1/2". I just noticed you dont have a sbc, but a rotary. I've seen import header flanges that were thicker than the primary.

-- Joe

 

SLP's are 3/8 flange