I'm having the dealership I work for install headers on my RS when they replace a leaking RH head gasket this spring. They're all good "A" techs, but are not necessarily exhaust specialists. I need to provide them with all the parts, then they'll do the rest.

I've read about the Hooker 2055s, which may or may not be compatible with what I'm trying to do. I originally wanted to do Edelbrock TES, but some on here have issues with them...why? I need to know the easiest, smog-legal option I have for my application, and what I should do for a cat. I currently have a Magnaflow cat from Summit hooked to my 3" Magnaflow exhaust. Could I make dual cats work with any of the above-mentioned? Is it even worth it to retrofit it? The extra $$$ isn't an issue if I can really gain about 10hp doing it, like the factory claimed.

I know there are stickies on this, and I have searched, but I still have questions. Thanks to anyone who can help...

 

The following direct-fit system should fit your requirements: Hooker 2055's (Jeg's 520-2055). Catco high-flow converter (Summit CTO-9118). Hooker catback (Summit HOK-16823HKR). The Hooker 2055's are generally considered the best available.

JamesC

 

Thanks for the info! As I said above, I'm keeping my Magnaflow catback though...I assume the cat listed would bolt up ok? I can't believe how expensive the 2055s are when ceramic coated...$815 is a ton of $$. Does anyone have ceramic coated 2055s for less? Also, these say they're for 86-90...is it safe to say the only reason they don't fit 91 is because of the Thermac unit that I'm not using anyway? (I have an open element on the car)

Thanks for any assistance.

 

The reason they don't say for '91-'92 is those years either had 2-1/4" single or dual cats, not 3". JamesC's recommendations will fit the engine and chassis, but the individual pieces won't fit in your exhaust system without using all of them.

If you want dual cats, use the Hedman headers for dual cats. Your cat back will need slight modification (a "Y") to complete the installation.

Call Jet Hot and find out what they're asking for coated 2055HKR's these days.

 

2 more questions:

1) Is there anywhere I can purchase a "Y"? I know this seems like a dumb question, but I don't really know where to turn...

2) If I do a simple cat (like the one listed), will it bolt to my Magnaflow ok? I unfortunately don't know the specs of the "old" Magnaflow (I read on here how they're producing a new, third-gen-specific) one, but that's what I have and like I said, I'd like to keep it.


So I guess my 2 options are:
1) Get a Y, the Hookers, and new dual cats
2) Get the Hookers, use the Summit cat, hope it mates to the catback

Am I to assume the only headers that will work with a "stock replacement" Magnaflow cat are the Edelbrock TESs? What is so bad about these, exactly? Keep in mind, after this round of mods, other than learning to burn my own chip, this car is staying the way it is. Are Edelbrocks ok for my mild setup, or am I really losing out?
----------
Also, is it even worth it to do dual cats on a relatively tame LO3? Could I get the same 10hp benefit the TPI cars got? If so, I am really interested, and would love to know where I can get the Y adapter I need...someone must make it!

 

You dont have a reason to waste the money on dual cats for your LO3. A single 3" one will flow more than enough for a modded LO3, and leave extra room for SFC's or whatever.

Also, the one JamesC listed, will slip directly on the y-pipe that comes with the 2055's and it will be in the right location.

As for the catback you already have, we have no way of knowing. You are the one that had to modify a 4th gen system to fit, and there are 100 different ways people can connect the i-pipe to a cat.

The 2055's and the CTO-9118 will be almost a direct bolt on. Perfect for any tech at a shop. If you wanted to buy a new catback too, the whole thing would be bolt on. As it is now, you might have to have your Tech install just the headers and y-pipe, then drive the car to a good custom exhaust shop. They will be able to modify the catback again, to fit the new convertor.


Is there any way you could post up some pictures of where your current catalytic convertor meets your current magnaflow I-pipe? That would help alot.

 

Crap...I can try to get some pics of it.

Actually, I'm not the one that modified the Magnaflow...it was on the car when I took it in on trade. I didn't know there wasn't a dedicated third gen Magnaflow until I got on this board...

I have a 2 1/4" inlet Magnaflow stock cat right now...I know that's the size because the clamp on the inlet of the cat where the factory Y pipe meets it says 2 1/4". So apparently, at this point, if I want to save my catback for sure, without monkeying around with driving it to another shop, I need to utilize my existing cat...which means the Edelbrock TES is the only way to go? I've read enough to know those have a "TBI" version with a smaller 2 1/4" outlet on the Y, for a 2 1/4" cat. I wanted to avoid having to do that, and get a full 3" everywhere...but maybe I don't have the option at this point? I don't have a clue what mods were made to the Magnaflow to make it fit...I have no idea what shop put it on.

With a relatively stock TBI, I wonder if it even makes much difference in output anyways. This project started because I have to remove the manifolds anyways to replace the RH head gasket...if its that far apart, I figured, why not add headers?

TES may not be my best option, but it seems to be the easiest for what I need to do. An extra .10 in the 1/4 over a 3" setup isn't going to make a difference to me, versus the potential nightmare of fabbing things, and sending things out to different shops. If I have a stock replacement Magnaflow cat and my fabbed catback with a 2 1/4" inlet, is it safe to assume the Edelbrocks at least bolt up? Or am I really just guessing here?

I appreciate everyone's time and help to help me out. I just want to be able to hand the tech the parts and have them go at it. This is my summer weekend cruiser, not a race car. I just figured if everything has to come apart anyway, why not enhance it a little?

 

Are you never underneath your car?? IDK I guess I just take it for granted that I am always under my car at least once a week, sometimes more. I am usually the first one to notice when something needs replaced, or the state of everything.

And, yeah, your cat is probably a 2 1/4" cat. They could do that to slip it on the y-pipe.

If this was put on by any old exhaust shop, there is a pretty good chance that they just welded the cat to the magnaflow catback, using whatever scrap pipe they had in the shop. They "should" have taken the time to put a real ball and socket flange in, but that doesent matter if they did or not.

I am willing to bet that it would be worth it to get a 3" cat in there. Just for comparison my FWD 3.1L V6 monte carlo, had 2.25" exhaust, factory. And it had better bends thatn my firebird too. So I really dont see how they expected a 5.0L motor to breathe through the same size exhaust that you might find on smaller V6's and some 4cyl cars.

It wouldnt be that much work for a shop to adapt a new cat onto your magnaflow system. Depending on if you have them just weld it together, or actually add a flange to the Magnaflow catback, it would probably be $100 more or less. Some shops would probably just weld them for like $20, but that makes it harder to take the exhaust apart if you ever need to work on the car yourself.

 

For ease of use go with the edelbrocks, i have them right now and replacing with some bigger shorty headers.

 

Forget the dual cats. Total waste of time and money. If you plan on keeping that 2-1/4" cat, might as well forget headers altogether because that weenie sized cat will just choke off any additional flow that the headers could provide. I have a 305 TBI car that I upgraded to a 3" cat and catback system, and I could actually feel a difference. It definitely pulls harder now with the bigger exhaust. It'll be an even bigger difference with headers. I'm only running the 350 TPI manifolds/y-pipe on mine at the moment. Pick up a Catco 9118, direct-fit, 3" cat. Should only set you back a little over $100 for one. Once you get that, and get it fitted up to your catback, go ahead and get the Edelbrock TES or Hooker 2055's and call it a day. Personally, I'd go with the 2055's since the quality is far superior to the TES system, but I'm spending your money. When I first added the 3" cat to mine, I still had the smaller, TBI catback system on my car, and it was a piece of cake for the exhaust shop to cut off the start of the catback pipe and weld a short 3" section of pipe on there that reduced back down, so you shouldn't let your catback system hold you back from upgrading to the 3" cat. The whole system that JamesC laid out for you in his earlier post would be ideal for your car. I'm running Edelbrock's 3", RPM series catback on mine instead of the Hooker catback, and I've been very happy with the sound and quality, so that's another option you could consider. Bottom line is that headers of any kind will be a waste with the 2-1/4" catback because it's just too restrictive to let even a 305 TBI motor breathe properly.

 

The car already has a 3" Magnaflow on it (at least it APPEARS to be a 3" one...I didn't put it on). The Catco 9118 is a direct fit? In theory then, it should directly replace where my cat is. Seeing as how I'm using the stock y pipe, and have a direct-fit cat on the car currently, then by default a 3" direct fit cat should fit ok...no? I imagine it would all line up?

I wouldn't dream of doing headers with a 2 1/4" catback. I know ANY bottleneck can hurt airflow...I just wasn't sure to what extent the cat would hurt if I left it. I didn't have a part # for a direct fit 3" Catco in/out cat.

So this cat, with TES TPI headers, should bolt right in then, no? I assume if the Magnaflow is currently bolted to a direct-fit cat, then it couldn't have been hacked to the point where a 3" direct-fit cat wouldn't fit properly with the TES system...

 

The 9118 is a direct-fit to the 2055HKR's, but not a direct fit to your cat-back. The cat-back will have to be modified to connect to the cat.

 

Thanks for the response...can you explain how/why it would need to be modded? I apologize...the car is stored 30 miles from here, and it isn't that easy to just go outside and look at it. I just need an idea as to what I can expect. Obviously I'd like to go with 3" headers, but I need to be able to explain to the shop what they can expect...

I guess I'm simply having an issue understanding that if I get "direct fit" TES headers, a "direct fit" 3" cat, and have an exhaust hooked to a "direct fit" cat currently, I'm wondering if something might be too short, too long, crimped too much etc...

The only issue I can see currently is that the Magnaflow cat listed for a '91 is 2.5" outlet...therefore I assume my pipe is probably crimped at the cat, and needs to be bent back out to fit a 3" cat?

Sorry for the ignorance here...I simply don't know what I'm dealing with, I've never replaced an exhaust myself, and am stuck relying on other people to fix whatever mess I give them,...hence the need for info. Thanks to everyone who has helped thus far...

 

I just looked at the Hookers on Summit's site...the painted Hookers cost the same as the "ceramic" TESs. I use the quotes because, based on that, I wonder how good the coating actually is on the Edelbrocks.

I don't have $820 to spend on ceramic Hookers. Because everyone seems to prefer the 2055s, I'm wondering, how well will the painted finish on the 2055s hold up? I assume pretty badly? Will they allow more underhood temp than the coated Edelbrocks? I have an open element, and don't want any more underhood heat than humanly possible...

Thanks for everyone's continued help. I want to do this once, and do it right...but I do need to follow a budget. I need to measure the Magnaflow too...apparently there are ones with 2.5" i pipes, however mine looks huge to me...I never paid attention to what it looked like near the cat, to see if it was crimped to fit a 2.5" outlet cat, which I assume I have...

 

Sounds like you really need to look at your budget and make a decision from there. It's a given that the uncoated headers will produce more heat under the hood, just as it's also a given that the paint on the "painted" headers will burn off in probably a few days or less. While the 2055's are considered top notch, the Edelbrocks will do the job, and if they're really that much cheaper, then that's probably your best option. Of course, the uncoated Hookers are yet another option, you'd just have to accept the fact that you'll have rusty looking headers in a short period of time. Back when I first started playing around with SBC's, there wasn't even such a thing as "coated" headers, so it's not like you HAVE to have coated ones. My 69 Camaro cranks out over 400 HP with uncoated headers(Hookers btw) and an open element air cleaner. If you only have a 2.5" intermediate pipe, you can always have an exhaust shop cut off the end of your I-pipe where it meets the cat, and weld on a flared, 3" section of pipe that reduces back down to 2.5". Most shops would probably only charge about 20-30 bucks to do it.

 

I have long tubes that are painted. The paint burned off in about 50 miles or so. The paint is there to keep them from rusting in storage basically. Not really much else it's good for...

That said, I'm in the south and having my headers rust out isnt that huge of a concern to me and my Hedmans cost me $100 and they're $150 brand new. The heat thing isnt really that big of a deal as far as I'm concerned.

If you want something bolt on and you want to keep your ground clearance, shorties are your only option and shorties are SO much more expensive. You can get an uncoated set of Hookers and let them rust out in 1-10 years depending on various variables, but even uncoated 2055's are rather pricy and itd be frustrating to replace a set.

To me coating a cheap set of cheap longtubes is silly when the coating costs more than the headers. But if you're spending $400+ on headers, you dont want them rusting out. I dont know whether you drive in the snow or whateveru p there, but I know guys down here that have been using the same uncoated headers on their cars (Daily driving them) for years, and they have a nice coat of rust on them, but they're fine.

First day:


1 month (500 miles) later:



My advice, if you want to get headers and cnat afford coated Hooker shorties, I'd just get some cheap uncoated Hedman shorties. They'll be easy to replace down the road with a nice coated set if you want.

Basically I guess all Im trying to say is that you coat headers primarily to protect your investment. The heat thing may be a big deal... who knows. It's not something that concerns me all that much. ANd then theres the whole shiny aspect, which is cool... But I dont like buying shiny parts if ugly parts work just as well.

 

I've been running the Hookers since 04. Oddly, and to my surprise, the paint is still in reasonably good shape (though it's no replacement for coating). I've also never experienced any heat-related problems, and I too am using an open element .

JamesC

 

Thanks very much for all the quick responses. I guess I have a lot to think about in the next couple days. The biggest reason the car is getting headers is because the heads need to be ripped off to fix oil leaks anyway (RH head gasket is leaking pretty badly at this point)...so I figured, why not put headers on anyway?

Looks do matter to me to a certain extent, which is why I originally was leaning towards coated Edelbrocks. I'm trying to freshen up the engine bay as much as possible, and figured replacing some rusty, crappy OEM manifolds with some nice headers would be nice...and the benefit to sound and performance is obvious, as well.

I'm already in this car for $8,500 after a gorgeous $3k respray, bolt-ons and other items. Therefore, I need to keep an eye on the budget. With that said, this car is also staying relatively stock for years to come...which makes me wonder. If the coated Edelbrocks cost under $500, and the coated Hookers are over $800, am I really gonna gain any real performance or is the extra $350 or so a waste? That's a new carpet, or something else I can do to the car.

I guess I'm having a mental block spending over $800 on headers for a car that will still make 200hp, if I'm lucky, when I'm done. This sorta snowballed from the fact that the car needs the manifolds pulled anyway. To answer questions posed above, the car is driven in dry weather only, about 5,000 miles a year.

A couple questions remain, then I'll quit bugging everyone

1) Does anyone know how well the ceramic coating on the Edelbrocks holds up over time?
2) Does anyone have a cat part # for the Edelbrock TES TPI headers?

To be honest, if the Edelbrocks will end up rusting like the Hookers, then I'll probably just do the uncoated Hookers anyway...spending over $800 on headers is probably not a bright idea for a sub-200hp terror

 

Ti-Tech is not ceramic. It's a high temp paint. Summit's description is wrong.

The p/n for '88 TPI (single 3" cat) is 68723.

If you still need to understand what mods your cat-back would require, basically it has a 2-1/2" connection to your existing cat, going to 3", and the outlet of the 9118 is 3". So, you'd need a 6" piece or so of your cat-back replaced to connect the cat to the I-pipe.

 

Thanks for answering my stupid question on the cat. I will be going over to the garage the car is at on Thursday...I'll jack it up and have a look underneath and see what I find. Can a place like Monro Muffler or Midas make me a pipe like that? I would imagine so...

Thanks for the p/n for the cat. As for the Ti-Tech, the ones I'd be looking at are the actual ceramic coated TESs they sell...they list both Ti-Tech and ceramic coated ones. For only $30-40 more however, it makes me think that either a) the ceramic coating is a steal, or more likely b) its a joke and doesn't last...

Regardless of what I do, its obvious to me now that the exhaust has been modded for the cat. I honestly have spent very little time under this car. HOPEFULLY, I don't have a 2.5" intermediate Magnaflow that the previous owner bought to fit the Magnaflow 2.5" cat. If I do, I guess it boils down to whether or not I want to spend the $$$ to go 3" all the way back, or take the cheap route and keep my existing cat and catback setup, and simply get the smaller 2 1/4" TES TBI headers that will bolt to the existing cat. Indeed, it will not flow as well, and that stinks...but I imagine it'll be a helluva lot better than the puny OEM manifolds.

I guess I'll find out more about what I have on Thursday. I've learned a ton from this thread, so thanks to everyone who responded. When its all said and done, I simply have to weigh the costs...I'm already spending almost $700 simply to have the whole top end of the engine regasketed...I figure if it needs to be pulled apart for one head gasket, I might as well have the other one done and have the valve seals done for good measure. Then I can get another 114k miles out of the old 305

With this being the largest round of bolt-ons I'll be doing to this car until the 305 blows up someday, considering how tame the car is, I wonder how much it'd hurt it to have the smaller 2 1/4" headers anyway. The car will never see the track...obviously, the 3" setup is ideal, I realize.

 

Honestly, no one else will go aloin with me here, but that's just an L03, I dont think smaller headers would really hold you back that much.

 

You prolly have a point there. The heads and cam are the next bottlenecks. FWIW, I opted for the Edelbrock TES with the Ti-Tech coating (whatever). Still looks as good as new with over 3K miles on them so far and they provided the throaty growl I wanted. Installation was very straight forward.

 

You have to realize that everyone is going to chime in with their own personal opinions, and opinions always differ. My personal opinion remains that it'd be a complete waste of money to do any kind of headers with a puny 2-1/4" exhaust system. That being said, with an L03 motor, I really don't think there's gonna be any noticeable power difference whatsoever between running the Edelbrocks or the Hookers. Either choice will be a VAST improvement over the stock TBI manifolds/exhaust system. Since you seem somewhat concerned over cosmetic appearance, and price is a determining factor, I'd say to go ahead and get the Edelbrock 3", coated headers and call it a day. As far as how good the coating holds up on them, I can tell you that I've got a used set of them I bought from a fellow board member a while back, and the coating on the headers still looks pretty good. On the other hand, the coating on the y-pipe is almost completely gone. Not really a big deal though, considering the only real visible thing is going to be the headers. Another reason that the coating on the y-pipe doesn't matter much is the fact that the y-pipe stays hot enough, that they hardly ever rust out. From what I've seen with 3rd gen exhaust systems, they only rust out after the cat. Just went to Summit's website and looked at the listings. Apparently, the only real difference between the TPI and TBI applications is whether you're running the 2-1/4" cat or the 3" cat, that and the TBI headers have the heat stove provision, which doesn't matter on your car anyways since you're running an open element air cleaner. So it really comes down to whether you want to use a 2-1/4" cat or a 3" cat. I also remembered that the guy I bought mine from paid extra to have the y-pipe ceramic coated, and it flaked off anyways. So if you want to run the 2-1/4" cat, go with part# 68753, or part# 68722 for the 3" cat. Both of them use a 2.5" collector size, and 1-5/8" primary tubes.

 

Jason, the easyest headers to install by keeping all accessories should be Edelbrock TES (beacause theyr the skinniest). I would only consider the ones for tpi. Edelbrocks Y pipe is rubbisch.

If youd like better locking air tubes, hoocker and SLP flow quality and easy installing you could consider macperformance. http://www.macperformance.com/store/...roduct_ID=1439

 

I firgot to add that it is really simple to use a 3" to 2.5" reducer. Just dont cut the 3" part, because thats the one u would reuse in the future.

 

Just get some cheap long tubes from summit and use the spray on 1500 degree paint and touch them up with a paint brush after installation. I think the 68460 are good. Just weld some tubing together to fit your y. Its not that hard. I will be doing it to my car probably this summer if i have time. Good luck

 

Well, I FINALLY got the time to spend under the car to measure...luckily, the last owner already installed a 3" in/out cat when he put on the 3" catback...so I appear to be in good shape! A shop must have made the previous owner a piece of pipe that connected the 2/14" stock Y to the cat...it actually flares out to 3.25" at one point (I was having fun with the digital slide caliper my friend let me borrow ). So, hopefully the 3" TES Y pipe can be mated to this pipe if it can be bent out, or I can have a pipe made to fit between the new Y and the cat...

Thanks to everyone who helped out...I will be doing the Edelbrock TPI 3" headers, even though Summit lists them as 2.5"

 

2.5" is closer to the truth. They include an adapter to go from the 2.5" y-pipe to 3" cat inlet.

 

yeah why do they advertise like that. I have a slp 1 3/4 headers with the y-pipe and they claim its 2.5 inches, and it measures at 2.25 What the hell!