http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/68723/10002/-1

Putting a crate 350 in and the whole exhaust mess is wearing me out. Would these headers work? Then what? Could a straight pipe go from there?

Input please
The most cost effective method/painless rout if any would be best. Stock exhaust would be cheapest rout but also would suck.

 

anything but those, worst headers out there. The 4 to 1 collector is terrible, the pipes are almost triangular shaped, they are flattened that much. The collector is tiny @ 2.5" w/ a bunch of weld bead buildup on the inside. Same goes for the 2 into 1 Y pipe merge, flattened pipes there too. The cheap hedman shorties are a much better design IMO

 

I've had a set of the plated TES "HO" style headers on my car for over 5 years. Even though the plating discolors due to heat as most will, there's still not a spot of rust on them.

Are there other headers out there for better breathing on a high performance application? - you bet. But I wouldn't go so far as to say "Anything but those". IMO there's worse out there than the TES headers.

On a stock or mildly built application I think they're fine, and flow better than any stock system. Anything more than that, you'd want to step up to 1-3/4" primary tubes and 3" collectors at the least. So if you have plans for sub 11 second 1/4 mile build, you might as well spend the extra $$ now and get something more performance oriented.

But again, for a mildly built street car, those are fine and you'll have plenty of ground clearance over the LT headers, which counts for A LOT on the street. I added a Hooker Super comp cat back to mine and it was a bolt up proposition. I had to change a couple of the hangers in the rear, but that was about it - and I've gotten plenty of compliments on how it sounds.

NOW - all that being said, If I would have realized back then that I was going to put a blower on my car in the future, I would've never bought the set I have....but in my defense, I never imagined I would continue building mine the way I ended up doing. I now need to step mine up to something that flows better than what I have. I'll be selling my headers soon....

 

Okay, let's put it this way, since he wants to install headers and the price is not the issue here, why go for the crappy edelbrocks when there are other cheap headers out there with a much better design, that don't have that terrible collector.

 

Hey - I respect your opinion...how about showing just a little respect for someone else's? I happen to have a set of the TES headers, and I'm giving him my insight - he can decide for himself. Besides, he can do a search and gather more opinions than just ours.

 

Okay, compare these




to these:





What would flow better? Both are 1-5/8 primaries, however the cheap hedmans have a 3" collector and the pipes are not flattened/crushed anywhere. The edelbrocks are 2.5 primaries with a lot of weld buildup on the inside and the pipes are flattened to about 2/3rds the internal area.

I can't help it that people buy the Edelbrock headers, so if some people have them it's against the law to keep others from making the same mistake? Sorry, but they are not a good header at all. Possibly the worst flowing headers out there.

 

OK - there. I quoted myself just in case you missed it the first time. I readily admitted that there are better flowing headers out there.

He wants cost effective and painless - not one mention of "best flowing". I discovered that by reading his post.

Since we want to think our opinion is the ONLY one that counts - He can take YOUR advice, get the much cheaper Hedman's and buy the Y pipe separate for 109 bucks or 121 bucks - but WAIT - it bottle necks down to - 2-1/2" ?? Imagine that. I guess he could have a custom 3" Y-pipe made for extra $$ or run true duals.

Either way, he'll still end up with leaks at the collector flanges because that 3 bolt design, even though good for performance is JUNK for every day driving and reliability. They WILL LEAK - and you'll need to change collector gaskets often. Been there, done that. But hey - they'll flow better than the TES headers - I'll agree. You got me.

If he can fab his own Y-pipe, or if he wants to run true duals and sacrifice ground clearance, then the Hedmans will FLOW better and will be a better value - but will still leak.

EDIT: The TES headers come with a O2 bung already installed, and much thicker, better flanges that hook up to the Y-pipe - which BTW, the Y comes with the headers. So you see, opinions all sound great on the surface, but you need to do some research to figure out what best fits YOUR needs.

 

I need more time to think about this tho I dont have much time to actually put the new engine in, its my daily driver. Would it hurt the engine, besides performance wise, to just go ahead and bolt up the stock system?

Also its a new crate 350, pretty stock one at that http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance...67353/10002/-1

 

Nah - should bolt right up. May not even hurt it much, if any performance-wise. Everything should bolt up just like it did on your 305.

 

I have had 3 different sets of headers on my car over
the last 18yrs;1st was a cheap cyclone 1 5/8 tube
set that i heat wrapped(whoops)-they lasted about
a year and a half,then burnt out under the heat wrap.
Next set was a nice SLP S.S. with i 3/4 tubes:
was well designed and top quality materials-including
forged S.S. flanges,but was quite badly assembled-
flanges were not welded straight,y-pipe not straight,
etc.Heat wrapped these and used them for a couple
years untill i got sick of all the leaks and other probs.
caused by the bad assembly.Being S.S.,they were
not damaged at all by the heat.
Thinking SLP had no doubt inproved their assembly
quality in the years since the last set i got,i bought
a 2nd set-they were worse than the 1st set i got!!
Sent those back and got the edlebrock-though i
could notice a slight drop in power vs the 1 3/4 SLPs
the quality was good and they fit fine and have
lasted great(put in in '99)it's true they arent the
best flowing headers,but for a 305 or mild 350 they
work pretty decent
I kept the 1st set of SLPs and might rework/repair
those and reinstall as they did outflow the edlebrocks,
made more power and are S.S.
BTW i did not heat wrap the mild steel edlebrocks

 

The hedmans are available with a ball & socket design: top right set of headers


The fact that the Y pipe is 2.5 isn't a big issue, it's more than enough for most. The fact that where the 2 pipes merge in the Y is a much better design than the flattened tubes of the edelbrocks is. That's the big problem with the TES headers, they flatten the already small pipes to get a merge section. That's also why a 3" collector is needed, it's a size needed to get a smooth transition from 4 1-5/8 primaries without flattening the pipes and diminishing internal cross sectional area like on the TES headers, that's why they do it, so the 4 pipes fit in the 2.5" collector. After a 3" collector the pipe can neck down no problem, it's the transition area that's important (ever seen a necked down merge collector?)
So no need for a custom Y pipe.

so the only hurdle is the O2 bung?

So you see, half your arguments are baloney, the only one that holds any water is the O2 bung.

 

Twin Turbo -

Hey, look. I'm not here to do internet battle, nor am I here to make enemies. You've been on the board helping others here for quite a while, and I still do respect your opinion.

I've never disagreed with you throughout the post - and still don't - on the lousy collector size on the TES headers, they should have definately designed them with 3" flanges, and they do squish the 4 primaries into the too small 2-1/2" collector. So far as Y pipes go, at least on the set I have, my Y-pipe isn't flattened anywhere, but I have the HO version so maybe theres a difference??

Again, I fully agree the TES headers don't flow as well as other brands, including Hedman. But - I still DON'T like their flange design - as a matter-of-fact I HATE those flanges. And Hedman isn't the only brand that use them by far.

When you tighten them down, the 3 bolt "rings" warp and bow, and after a while even a new gasket won't seal. The ball and seat won't seal either once the 3 bolt rings are bowed (and all of them will). You have to re-straighten them the best you can if to have half a chance for a semi tight seal. - But that's MY EXPERIENCE with them.

All I'm saying is,for a bolt-on-and-go type header, the TES has most every other brand beat. If you order the proper set, you can bolt them on without the issue of any welding or mods, and they use stronger OEM type flanges. The set I got bolted up and I didn't have to get anything welded - it even had a stock 4 bolt flange on the Y pipe to adapt to the rest of my exhaust.

If I'm mainly interested in flow in a header, then Hedmans flow is better. But - for ease of installation and better flow and performance than a stock exhaust for a lower performance, lower compression 350 (no offense meant MetallicaWolfe) - the TES headers will work nicely and provide all the flow that setup needs if he doesn't go wild with it. Trust me, if you only knew the problems I've had with some of the other Edelcrock products I've had, you'd know I'm not waving their banner. I'd say if there's any other brand of shortie header out there that is as painless as the Edelcrocks are, then get those instead of Edelcrock.

-As a matter of fact - I'm looking at getting rid of my TES's soon in favor of Doug's shorties with the 3/4" primaries and bigger Y...

So instead of calling each others opinions "baloney" , let's just agree to disagree.

 

I too have bought a couple sets of Edelbrock headers over the years, it was before I was a member on any message boards and knew better. However, I will say this. They are much better than stock manifolds (of course), they are easy to install, never leak, come with everything needed to install, and overall, just a very durable product.

Yes, these days I'm thinking about going with longtubes, but I won't get rid of the Edelbrocks... I'll just use them on another car that makes less power.

 

Agreed