I heard a trick the import crowd uses for this is dry ice. I can't find a good link to the method right now, but from what I gather you just layer it in the floor and the seam filler just freezes up and you scrape it out easy.

Anybody ever considered stitch welding all of those body seams, after removing the seam filler? Would it be of any structural benefit? Obviously, I think SFCs would be the best, but could the welding help any? I'm sure it couldn't replace SFCs.

I've heard of people doing that. Like you said, it's probably no replacement for a set of SFCs, but it would probably help quite a bit with NVH issues (at the possible cost of making the car harder to repair in an accident)...

Well, the one that I pulled from an "Iron Duke" Camaro bolted right up to my '89 GTA, but the ends were a bit too long, & stuck out beyond the sides of my sheetmetal (maybe 2-3" or so ea. side).

Five mins w/ my Sawzall fixed that little problem!

(I'd intended to post a pic or two with the new bumper support bolted up, but it looks like we didn't take any pics of that - just a few pics of what the car looked like with the nose pulled off...)

Interesting...The one I have, have the very end (maybe 1"-2" bent VERY slightly) so that piece could be cut off, without trying to fix it!

I just might keep it, instead of selling it after all.

Take it back apart, and take me some pics!

I recall some Japanese fellows welding up the body seams and building an insane cage for a Camaro track car. I myself am going to have the shock towers mig welded all around because of the coilover kit. I may have him weld up a few more seams just for rigidity when I put in the inevitablly neccasary 4 point cage.

i pulled one from a base model 84 firebird.. and now it rests on my 84 TA.. quite a weight difference..

i wonder how much my car weighs..

basically a drag car with 2 seats, power steering, windows and brakes.. no fiberglass, all steel.. shaved doorhandles.. front swaybar is coming off..

drag car with shaved door handles? that's not typically allowed past tech, how do you enter the vehicle from the outside?

its not a real drag car, i run in street class.. i just said drag car because if you look at it, thats basically what it could be.. i only have the bare necessities.. if i didnt need it, i tossed it..


and for the shaved door handles, you need a remote to open it..

no track around here would let you race without door handles on any night. IF you hit the wall, how would the crew pull your body out of the firey crash?

No way your car weighs that much.

It tuned out, that is the weight loaded on the sticker, not the empty weight...Empty, it is 3601

Anybody?

The "gen" applies to both Firebirds and Camaros.

So, any 82-92 (3rd gen) or 93-02 (4th gen) seat, will bolt straight in, to any 82-02 F-body.

A 02 owner could bolt in a 82 seat even. I have 4th gen front seats in my 87. Straight fit. I had 4th gen seats in my wife's 90 RS too, front and rear. Straight fit.

I was just wondering because the 4th gen firebird cloth seats seem smaller than the 4th gen camaro seats.

Here are some in my 87 GTA...

2800lbs is no longer a myth.

I crossed the scales at Iowa Speedway with NASA Midwest at 3041lbs race ready including driver (210lbs), gear, fire extinguisher, and 15 gallons of fuel.

So, the car, by itself, with 5 gallons of fuel would weigh approx 2760.

Wait until I bolt on the AL heads, triple disc, fab a rear bumper, and get Ed's Wilwood setup. 2900lb race weight here I come (~2640lb car weight)

Nape, your car is awesome.

That is why I called BS on Fast355's supposed 11sec 305tbi powered Camaro that weighed 2700 lbs..and was still roadworthy and TX driveable. No F'in way.

mine wieghed 2840. then i had to put the belts and 6 point roll bar in. now it wieghs 2950. without me. there's alot more i could take out. but just don't wanna. i wish i had left it alone.

Thanks dude. We'll see if I can get any further by the end of the season. I'm sorta tempted to get rid of the door hinges, but it's a lot of work to bolt the door skins on for maybe 10-15 lbs weight savings.

A 2700lb street car probably isn't out of the question, but you'd have to spend a lot more money then I did so you could run lexan and you'd have to fabricate lightweight headlights, window mechanisms, etc.

I just did a friends Mustang, pulled all accesories except for the alternator and water pump, deleted all the brackets, front impact bumper, metal fog light bracket, all interior plastics in the back, back carpet, and took the jute off of his front carpet. This car is equipped with a C6 and a smallish stall (probably an 11 or 10.5 incher 3000rpm or so stall). The car weighs in at freaking 2900 pounds FLAT on the truck scales that are known to weigh a little on the heavy side! I've gotta get on the ball with my weight reduction. He's still got the factory heater box, ducting, and the metal frame from the stock dash to take out plus he's got an aluminum race seat to replace the 2 stock seats. I think I'm going to have to get creative to keep up with him on this one. BTW he's doing the same thing I am, stock engine, stock intake, stock heads we are basically seeing how fast you can get these cars to go with basically stock long block power plants and factory induction.

Mustangs can go WAAAY light.

There's a guy who just built a Fox to road race and it supposedly weighs 2720 with 150lb-ish driver and fuel. It has an LS1/T56 in it and the only thing fiberglass on it is the hood.

We got said Mustang to 2780 (without driver) before he blew the C4 we JUST installed and sold it to another friend, I hope it rides again I spent alot of time on that guy. Last mod we did was to completely remove the heater box, AC condenser core etc. and the metal framework of the dash, it's like Ford built those things to be disassembled. All the gagues and the dash still bolted back in without the metal bracing. Tonight we just made an all nighter out of gutting my Camaro again for the second time. I didn't realize how much jute and crap I still had in that thing! We took out at least a 25 pound trash bag of jute and that black stuff that looks like tape but is more like tar. One thing to watch for is if you blow a heater core the jute under your dash will be soaked with coolant, mine was. I pulled the headliner, console, all plastics, and the super heavy hatch carpet. It's sitting out there with 1 stock seat in it now and the car sits about an inch higher all around! I did this to install some racing seats that need custom brackets welded up, and move the battery to the back. I'll weigh it tommorow if i get the chance, I'm going to reinstall a new console and the other seat so we'll see what that nets it. After the new seats are in it's off to the shop for the K member and A arm install I've put off forever.

curious as to what my car might weigh. it is a 91 rs hardtop, auto, power windows,doorlocks, hatchpull down, ac, cloth seats, no weight removed, thanks for imput

You should be able to take it to a Ag wiegh station or a truck wiegh station. My local one didn't charge me. I always wiegh in with a full tank of gas so I can tell how much wieght I loose after each thing I remove. I think I'm at 3640 the last time I checked. I've removed the A/C since then.

Mustangs start lighter then f-bodies, and can be stripped down very easily. Just getting rid of the extra bits that most people don’t use in the later wiring harnesses and sound deadener under the floor can lighten the car by almost a couple of hundred lbs barely effecting streetability.

I’ve seen them stripped down for autox racing, marginally still streetable and in the low 25xx range, and you can save a few more lbs taking a more dragrace approach with no front sway bar, lighter front tires/wheels…

Ok now I'm curious, I couldn't fit either of the new center console's in my Camaro, there's a brace that neither console was cleared for at the back bottom of the cargo well thing. Also I was just told that 91 doors are longer than 89 down doors, is this true? I know the undercarriage looks different from the 91 to an 86 but did they actually change stuff on the car besides the reinforcement of the subframe? BTW I weighed my car with just the 2 drivers seats, center console, and one of my racing seats in it and it came to 3120. I keep swapping rims around though and I honestly don't remember which set I had on it then. It's time for some Rod Lites or Pro stars.

Good to know I can get the car this light ( maybe before a cage...) I'm yanking the carpet soon and I ditched my GFX. I'm gonna fab my own alluminum bumpers. I wonder how much weight I can loose by swicthing to carb and pulling the computer and wiring harness?

Keep the FX for aerodynamics, but yeah, build your own tubular bumper support, like Andris did, for his TT project.

I afraid it's too late, some guy with a formula and I already swapped. It's okay, I like the plain looks of the car now... and the speed holes.

Im suprised nobody has suggested an aluminum block or a plastic wilson single plane intake. Those two together, with an aluminum flywheel, lightweight rotating assembly and electric water pump would probably give you an engine with a total weight of less than 400 lbs... Far less than a stock 350 TPI and a little less than a complete LS1.

i know donovan also sells flyweight aluminum blocks... they are like 9X pounds complete. They CNC them after they are cast to remove more unneccessary weight. I've also seen some guys deburr their factory blocks, grind down unneccessary mounting bosses, deburr, and 'window' the bellhousing mount.

I would imagine the percy's lexan glass, hatch or a notchback hatch, single race seat, remove carpet, A/C, heater core, dash, console, factory exhaust, etc would lighten the car alot. Relocate the battery to the trunk, pin on hood, remove all emissions and washer jug, use only chromoly chassis components, GTA wheels or another lightweight wheel, aluminum front brakes, and front complete K-member would put you pretty light. Do it in a hardtop car. For the 4 pounds I doubt I would remove the splash shielding in the front wheelwells because of drag. No spare, no extra bracketry, no jack, replace the front and rear bumpers, manual steering column, manual rack, small battery

Seamweld every inch or so, including the engine compartment near the strut towers! Then window the inner splash apron sparingly. Dragrace with only half a tank of gas or less (lots of guys show up to the track with w full tank go on a diet, take the browns to the superbowl, dont eat for a week, take some laxative the night before, etc...

suprised nobody has mentioned the 1 piece fiberglass nose. I saw a camaro once done up like that and it opened like a corvette...he said the weight savings with a tubular front suspension was like 350lbs.

dhirocz: People can dream all they like, but that engine block is big $$$.

You're on the right track for weight reduction other then that. It all runs into money though.

As far as an update, my car weighed 2950 (with 210lb driver, 10 gallons of fuel, driver gear, extinguisher, etc) later in the season with the new L98 aluminum headed 305.

Hopefully, the car will lose another 100+ lbs with the 5.5" Quartermaster triple disc clutch, core support removal, and switch to carb.

There are some build pics in the link in my sig if anyone is interested.

I guess I don't have to dream any more.

And yes I have one in my 92 Camaro.

Jerry

Lucky!

I've seen some blocks go in the $1500 to $3500 range on ebay... the more expensive ones were new. Alot better than the going price online! Also seen a few on racingjunk.com. You just have to look!

If this has already been posted, forgive me, but SUMMIT offers a COMPLETE LEXAN window kit which is made by Clear One for 82-92 fbody's $429. See link for more info.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Question for the weight experts: About how much weight savings do you think this would be?

the s10 box is abolt-in. if you want quicker steering look at steering quickners that stock cars use. speedway and davis motorsports are 2 sources

to help with weight transfer unhook the front sway bar from thr control arms when your at the track. kyb "agx" adjustable front struts set on the soft setting would let the front end come up quicker. an adjustable torque arm set with the pinion angle down 2 degrees would help the tires hook up.

Be aware, Clear One's website says "Blanks: Parts cut 2" oversize, not fabricated to shape, will require final trimming for fit".

There's no way in hell I would want a hatch window that wasn't molded to shape.

Here's the PDF with prices and weights direct from Clear One: http://www.clearonewindows.com/Docum.../Chevrolet.pdf

Hey Nape, How you been- Dean here.

For the public:You don't want 1/8" either. go 3/16" or 1/4" and you'd better make sure it is MR10 Lexan that is more scratch resistannt. Otherwise you will not be seeing anything in short time with any kind of glare.

That hatch is larger and I would be warry of using thin 1/8" back there. Especially still trying to open it for access.

As for stripping weight? THere comes a point where you are stripping too much sprung weight. You need to keep the values up on the sprung to unsprung weights for good handling. Otherwise the unsprung weight over powers the sprung weight and unsettles the car in corners. You want to keep a minumum of about 3:1 ratio and 4-5 to 1 is far better.

This is where the big money come in building custom exotic parts.
Hence my front brake package with aluminum hubs for instance, or my Carbon fiber driveshaft, etc.... It can easily be done with a safe street car- but at a high price. Then you can get into the spung weight reduction safely keep those ratios higer and purchase Jerry's Donavan block (Drool)

http://www.cardomain.com/member_page...52_72_full.jpg

The stock 3rd gen glass is 108 lbs
1/8 speed glass is..............31 lbs or 77 lbs less
3/16 speed glass is............43 lbs or 65 lbs less
1/4 speed glass is.............55 lbs or 53 lbs less

I hope this helps.

Jerry

BTW not an expert, But i did stay in a Holiday inn last night.

Various weights I've collected recently (calibrated medical scale)

TTA parts:
Intercooler 14.9lb
Intercooler bracket 1.7lb, 0.9lb
Intercooler shroud 1.8lb
Driver side header 4.5lb
Passenger header 7.7lb
Crossover pipe 3.9lb
Filter pipe (not stock, I think) 2.5lb
Discharge pipe 1.4lb
PS bracket, brace, pump, idler 11.8lb
Cruise, PS reservoir 4.4lb
Flexible fuel lines 0.8lb
AC hard lines 2.9lb
AC rec/dryer 2.2lb (with oil)
Plenum spacer (stock?) 0.3lb
K+N filter, 4"dia, 9" long +/-, 1.2lb
MAF 0.9lb
120A alternator 13.3lb
Motor mount 1.1lb each
Rubber mounts for trans x-member .3lb each x3
Trans bracket 3.5lb
Trans crossmember 6.9lb
Turbo bracket 2.2lb
Turbo heat shield 2.7lb
Valve cover 2.3lb each
idler 3.8lb
Fuel hard line 0.3lb
Oil Cooler 4.1lb
Pulleys 15.4lb (sorry did not separate the bunch)
Wiring harness, complete with sensors, DIS 19.7lb

Other stuff:
TA headlight housings (lid, bucket, brackets. no headlight or motor) 4.2lb each
Hood latch tray 6.0lb
Hood hinge 3.5lb each
Front lower gfx 2.5lb each
Bumper reinforcement (up at the top) 5.4lb
Hood latch brace 1.0lb
Crank pulley, SBC serpentine, 3.3lb
Door, complete (glass, hinges, handles, lock rods, PW, PDL, manual control mirror w/glass, rubber, wiring, rubber weather boot. No door panel. 83.8lb

my first camaro was a 84 z28,i bought it because it was a 5 speed and i had just wrecked a 92 ta and kept the tpi.turns out it had no power any thing,no tilt,no a/c,no window tint ! i swaped in the tpi added lca's,sfc's,panhard bar,eibach springs,base kyb shocks and struts,gta rims,4th gen rear,and i scrapped all the emissions crap.i took the car to a local truck stop, it weighed in at 3120#with out me and almost empty fuel tank.i think this was before i got headers. this was a very fun combination.to bad it got wrecked.bought a 2000 ta got wrecked,got a check he,he,he.so now i bought a 91 z with plans on buildig a lightweight street car.i swapped on the good suspention parts off of the 84 and the sfc;s. i also swapped inthe interior from the 84. i took it to the same scale and it wieghed in at 3320 the car was equiped as follows 91 z28 power locks,windows,hatch,a/c,rear sun shade,fog lights,cruise,tilt,am/fm cassette,L98,700r4,G92,dual cats,gta rims,it did not have power seats,anteana,mirrors,or rear defrost.the inner door panels,arm rests,and all the seat belts were absent and fuel level was 1/16th tank.i am not going to run with rear seats so i removed all of the related bracketry the rear seat belts and mounting pads,the sun shade brackets,console bracket,there are about a dozen tabs for holding wire harnesses glued to the floor through out the interior those are also gone.i am switching over to manual windows,locks,hatch,also going to heater only.i have everything including the ducting with fresh air vents.i am going to use 4th gen front seat belts because they only have one retractor mounted over head not two like 3rd gen seat belts.LS1,T56,radiator,cooling fans,rear end,heater hoses,gauge cluster,fuel tank and lines,sending unit,are all coming from the 2000 ta.the 84 z will supply manual windows,locks,hatch,heater only system,bare bones wiring,non tilt column,clear glass.i'm going to make a mini console termanating it verticly at the ashtray because i like the look of the older cars with just the shifter and boot sticking out of the tunnel.i dont think the spohn tubular conversion k member,tranny cross member,and adjustable tourqe arm weigh much less than stock but they appear to be far superior components.i am going to minimize the wiring i.e. third brake light,buzzers,indicators. i am willing to bet this build weighs in the low to mid 2900's.

With or without you?

Looks like JERRYWHO is being modest in not telling what his car weighs.

With the new mods the car is at 2,770 race ready now.
Not bad for a car with a 700R4 and factory 16" wheels and glass.

Jerry

No not bad at all. I bet the horsepower to weight ratio is going to be excellent for a California smog certified street car.

We know he is going to be deep into the ten second club. Maybe with a spot of laughing gas we can say nine's.

without

Jerry you should share some pics with us, I'm sure we're all curious to see