slow86305

cool ill have to keep an eye out for a set.

ws6transam

Yes, 3550 was when the car was 100% stock. When I took it to the track in 2003, it weighed in at 3700 even, which was without A/C, but with the heavy 17 x 9.5 " street tires, the roll bar, myself, a full tank of fuel, and the Optima spiral cell battery.

So, I'd estimate that weight now to be 160 pounds less, or a race weight of 3540 pounds. Without me in the car, that would be about 3450 pounds. I'll be weighing the car on some trustworthy scales when I'm done doing the engine swap, suspension re-do, etcetera. I'm going to make a wild-a** guess that I'll see a race weight of 3400 pounds. Mind you, I now have a lot of extra steel to tighten things up!

However, I'm still thinking that the magic 3000 pound mark will be awfully hard to reach in a street-going car that still sports stuff like a passenger seat, a radio, bumpers and a dash. Your engine and transmission add up to nearly 600 pounds by themselves!

FbodTrek

I wonder how light I could get my Auto 3.4L car.... Let's say the motor only makes 150 rwp...how light would it have to be to run a 15.0? It runs a 10.0 1/8th mile NOW. That's minus the A/c compressor/dryer, which is the only weight reduction....for now anyway.

TransAm12sec

GLD

This should help. Just an idea, not an exact time, normally lower then what it is, because it can't assume traction, r/t, etc.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

2562#

blacksheep-1

This is a pic of an old racecar I built, the point is, check out the dash and the seat.
http://mgmidget50.tripod.com/img.html

I'm a weight freak myself. I gutted the doors and used anylon strap to limit the openning of the door.

Here's something else I did once. They were glass doors on a 2nd gen camaro. I took the 2 hinges, gutted them and drilled them to make them lighter. Welded a plate between them and then ran a bar across the door (sort of like a side guard door beam) to the lock mechanism/nader pin. This basically was the door. I then welded some small tabs off of this bar to mount the glass door. It was pretty easy, don't get sucked in to trying to make the glass door do all of the work. The 4th gens do something like this from the factory.

FbodTrek

Pulled out the donut and jack, and weighed them, 33 lbs on the dot. That's a heavy **** spare!

black85iroc

i didnt read all of ^^^ but hotrod had an article within the year and they suggested taking out the inner fednerwells. you would lose some support but nothing aluminum braces couldnt make up for. the only other concern is **** getting into the engine bay, and i dont think your concerned about that with the little driving time you put on this car. other thing is little details. really light guages may not save you much right away, but if you replace EVERYTHING with really light weight ****, it starts to add up. hope this helps.

blacksheep-1

When you do the roll cage, do it in chromolley (spl) That will save a ton of weight.

Deimos140

Don't forget the cross fron front braces. Those shave weight as well as the heat shields underneath. Some of the inside metal fenders can be trimmed. A bracket in the back under the carpet can be removed. You can remove the bracket that holds in the spare tire. You can remove the undercoating and put new on that shaves alot of weight if people kept caking it on. I cut a hole where you charcoal filter use to be I removed the vaccum canister and the cruise control. Also you can cut the heater core box out from the inside of you vehicle off the firewall. Sound deaening material. I ran a Optima battery to eliminate the need for a box. I went lexan glass, fiberglass hood and hatch, soon to be fiberglass doors. Now also the flaming river manual rack is wear by. Its like power steering even when the car is off.

V12Camaro

Well. if you're gonna run 'glass doors, you'll be adding some weight back in with door bars,or else even a minor T- bone could be debilitating or Fatal.
I was wondering though, If you go with rack and Pinion steering, could you toss the "wonder" bar? If I understand the wonder bar concept, it's main purpose is to brace the steering box, isn't it?
Also, I need a new front windshield myself, and I've been thinking of going the Lexan route. what is the weight of the stock glass widshield, and what is the weight of a lexan peice? I'd prolly go 3/8 thickness.
The way I'm planning to go about it is to make a cardboard template of the glass windshield, and cut it out of flat lexan.
Once I've got it cut from flat, I'm going to simply "stick" it into the glue that holds the windshield in, and maybe use pop rivets around the outside perimeter for a little more securement. Will this work? Or is there a Compound bend in the glass that I couldn't use flat lexan and bend it around?

Deimos140

With a 25.5 spec cage if someone hits me I feel sorry for that poor sap and not me. Plus my car is retired from daily driver statur it might see the occasional cruise and even car show. But yeah my sway bars gone. Torsion bar gone, power steering, A/C is also gone along with my radio and wiring harness and all the other things you can do. Mine has to be stock appearing so I am going to be running a glued light weight carpet.

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

Yes and yes.

Project

Alright I saw a 2800lb 3rd gen, I call BS on anyone that says they can drive it on the street.

This guy had a full tub, roll bar and everything else ripped out, he used all his suspension parts from PA racing - and it weighed 2944 with him in it.

Nothing, no dash, door guts, 5 gallon fuel cell, lightweight dry cell battery, alloy rims upfront, power glide, fiber hood, light weight seat...honestly nothing was spared....

I really think if your even 3000 lbs it is impossible, there just isn't a way to do that and be street legal.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Well if the car you saw was tubbed, then the rear suspension would be heavier than a stock thirdgen rear suspension. If it had a roll cage, then that took up weight. You could run with only one seat and be street legal. What kind of motor/trans is this guy running. Big block? Aluminum head/block?

You would be suprised how light you can get these cars and still be street legal.

Project

alum heads

I'm just saying he gutted the thing and weighs wha tpeeps are claiming

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I understand that a 2800 lb thirdgen is light for a street car, but I beleive it can be done. If its gutted with no cage, plex hatch, lite weight engine parts, suspension, wheels and tires.

Plus ground f/x weights some also.

Like I said, A tubbed car with coil overs and 4-link is not lite. Nor is a full cage. The cage would make up for a gutted interior, and if a stock thirdgen rear was used, it would be lighter also.

If the car you saw weight 2900+ lbs with driver, you have a few items to factor in for a race car that isnt required for a street legal car.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Local guy here had his 3rdGen on the Curtis Trucking Scales in October n its a heavy 2715# with a full tank of fuel n bottle..

Its a Track Only car at this point because Its GUTTED, Stock dash, with Autometer gauges.1 seat ,10g Fuel cell. All Glass still with the stock 83glass hood. 12point cage. Still has all the lights etc. just not Insured and taged because in PA he cant.

Over here in Ohio where I live You could because you need no Inspection etc.. PRACTICAL for a Daily driver NO! Street Drivable for a weekend joy ride and race. YES!

Last bet runs were
1.54 60ft. front wheels in the air 120mph+ up at ERIE

Deimos140

Hope this helps don't have current weight but it is alot lighter than when it started.

Modifications done to the chassis…
Tubular front K member with tubular control arms, Fiberglass Harwood Hood (lift off), Fiberglass Harwood Doors,
Fiberglass Harwood rear hatch piece (lift off)-- removed the electronic hatch pull down and ran the latch for awhile but now got rid of it.
Removed front and rear inner bumpers.
Converted to Lexan Glass 1/8 inch
Removed front and rear sway bars
Removed torque arm from transmission, any under vehicle heat shields. vaccum booster, power booster for brakes.
Have a SSM kit but taking it out to run four link and get rid of frame for a lighter setup.
Removed Cross braces up front for the radiator
Removed Rear seats and belts
Removed Spare Tire and Spare tire bracket
Shaving Side mirrors and power door locks
HVAC ducting removed
Flaming River Manual Rack.
Removed Center Console
Removed insulation from under carpet
Got rid of parking brake.
Removed Stock wiring for a Painless 8 circuit switch kit.
Racing Seats up front with 5 point cam lock harnesses.
Removed the carpet for glued light weight autozone carpet. no speakers or stereo.

Wheels 15 x 3.5 Weld Pro Stars
15 x8's but converting to 15 x10 pro stars in the rear.

Cooling
Run a CSI electric Water.
Flexalite Black Magic Fan

Driveline
Deadenbear Aluminum Case Powerglide Transmission with straight cut 1.80 gears and turbo input shaft with custom torque converter.
Aluminum Driveshaft.
Ford 9 inch with ALUMINUM center section, 35 splined axles and spool with Willwood Disc brakes (same weight as the old 10 bolt)

Fuel
Aluminum Custom Fuel Cell
-10 An supply and –8 return.
Aeromotive 1104 with billet controller

Engine
427 Dart Iron Eagle Tall Deck (205 pounds)
Holley Stealth Ram Intake ported and polished (thank you B Bunting)
101 MM Precision Turbo
PT2400 Liquid to Air intercooler
Dart 230 cc heads ported heavily and polished.
JE blower Pistons 8.5:1 compression
Lunati Blower Crank 4 inch stroke.
Accel Fuel Injector controller with ACCEL DFI setup and calmap program ran off a labtop.
Arizona Speed and Marine 1300 cfm Throttle Body.
Removed Smog Pump, A/C and power steering pumps.
Removed exhaust and custom headers done with 5 inch exhaust
MSD probillet Distributor, MSD hellfire wires, MSD Digital 6 ignition
160 pound injectors (Accel)
Canton Oil Pan with windage tray.
Jesel Belt drive
Reactor Flexplate
ATI Balancer
Hellfire ring set
Clevite Bearings
Manely Pushrods
Crower custom billet connecting rods

Also going with a power master snug mount alternator set up for added clearance and less weight.

Pics for ideas.
http://deimos.eifba.net/

Old pics and she was dirty

http://www.team3rdgen.com/modules.ph...view_album.php

MrDude_1

anyone care to guess my track weight? street weight?

car had a base weight of 3400 before mods.. thats with the iron (steel) TBI intake, heads, ect...

mods:
LS1/T56
alum driveshaft
no front bumper (3lbs of alum strap support the nose)
no rear bumper ( 2lbs of alum strap)
lightweight carpet (under 10lbs for entire car)
total AC delete
airbag delete (including wires and sensors)



at the track:
no seats other then drivers
no muffler (its flanged and unbolts)
dynabatt battery equiv


any ideas?

kevinc

If you ever get it to start after your LS1 swap, you'll probably end up fast enough that you need a cage.

The lightest I've seen a 3rd gen get without replacing glass with Lexan is 3178# wet, no driver, no cage, no interior, iron V8 w/ aluminum heads and intake, fiberglass hood, no bumper supports.

MrDude_1

it'll run.

being a convertible, its like having a lexan hatch already.
also, it does have a fiberglass hood.. or atleast will before it goes to paint.

eventually it'll get a rollbar, but it'll probly never get a cage.

nape

iTrader: (1)

Not exactly sure what the Camaro bumper supports weighted, but those are the approximate weights of Firebird bumper supports from what I can remember.

Right there you lost approx 100 lbs + whatever the LS1 swap saved. I'd guess somewhere around 100-150lbs for the LS1 swap.

I'd guess around 3200 lbs give or take 50.

No need for a cage on the street

Must've been a car with ground effects and some other junk hiding somewhere. 3200lbs is heavy for what sounds like a race car.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

hmmm.... my car weighs about 3150 or less (keep thinking it was 3105, but we'll say 3150 to be safe) with full interior and iron heads and a steel hood. base model car with no a/c, etc.

383backinblack

how about race weight???

ever try and race your car without being inside it?

let me know how it works out for you

MrDude_1

i like to know the weight of everything, EXCEPT the driver.


mostly because, i know how much I weigh...

Jekyll & Hyde

Change: Savings:
Aluminum Waterpump - ~8
Carbon Fiber Driveshaft - ~10
Fiberglass Hood - 25
Fiberglass targa Hatch - 60
Lexan Hatch Glass - 35
Bear Front Brakes - 20 compared to 10.5" discs
Coil Over Front Suspension - 35
Fiberglass Doors - 50
Lightweight Starter - 10
Spare and Jack - 50
Tubular K-Member - 60


Removing the under bumper impact beams are worth 50lbs, but I don't know how much the replacements weight. Most of these cost a lot of cash, but if you really want to lighten up the car, there's a lot of weight to be shed.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Im surprised chris that you still have quite a few things on there weighing you down that you havent removed.

I have been driving around without a front crash beam for the past three years

no sway bars
no kind of steering brace

no AC, no AC fan or box

No rear seats (only 27 lbs alone) rear seat belts removed (probably brings it over 30 lbs)

no rear hatch motor, removing the motor is a snap just either tack weld the slider to the track or just bend them inward like I did, holds the lock mechanism in place no problem

no washer jar or motor no cruise control no emissions of any kind

cross lace wheels (45 lbs of rotating weight saved over the crappy "turbo fin" wheels) skinnies for the track

corbeau race seat

aluminum water pump

custom diy bracket to hold only ps and alternator

no carpeting in the back, removed sound deadening everywhere, none of all that plastic shrouding under the nose

no spare, jack, anything like that

battery relocated to the rear

I have airbags and drag shocks in the rear front is stock worn out shocks and stock springs. The front end sits so high it looks like a 4x4 sometimes, this from being low enough stock that people would ask me if I lowered it.

I weighed it before all this with exception to the wheels headers, and the removal of the spare and it weighed 3250 or so with a 1/3rd tank of gas

Swapping to a T5 dropped 100 lbs

Im pretty darned sure ive lost 150 lbs of weight since then... I ought to have it weighed.



Something to consider: Removing stiction (sp?) from your front suspension is as good as removing weight. If you were to dissassemble your front end so that your A arm was just connected by the two bushings and you moved it up and down you would find its not easy to move as it works against the friction from those bushings. Serious drag car teams work against this by putting in spherical bearings on everything to remove every ounce of stiction. You might want to look into fabbing up something in that regard and be sure to run 90/10s with some tall and light springs in the front. Its as good as losing weight

25THRSS

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but you can remove the upper panhard brace as well.

SERPENT99

pull the wiring harness out and trim away all the usless wires.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

wow where did you all get your cars???? my 87 Iroc fully loaded with 700r4 weighs in at 4225!!! without a driver!!! my other iroc though was 34xx something but it had manual windows and locks and a t-5

MrDude_1

you're looking at the Gross Vehicle weight.. thats the MAX weight the car can safely carry, including everything... fuel, passengers, luggage, stereo.... everything. its required by law to be on the car... usually its on the door...

even the heaviest of 3rdgens, never came close to 4000lbs.. lol.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

is the curb weight on the door?

Rembrandt

no no no.

Ugh, so many people make that mistake, trying to tell me a civic weighs 3000 lb so it must be making 400hp to keep up with x car.

Rembrandt

No I'm pretty sure they do that for suspension precision purposes.

Making the shock or axis of an arm have less friction doesn't change the power to weight ratio...

...it might make the shock or suspension more true in function to it's design and allow more grip/controllability, but saying that this is the same as losing weight since the car can be faster would just be like saying that increasing power is like decreasing weight, a meaningless statement.

MrDude_1

no.


hes talking about weight ratios and weight transfer..

very important if you want to hook out of the hole


in a nutshell:
you could move the battery to the back
or
you could grease the A arms.

assuming they were binding, that would make the same diff in 60', and ultimatly in the ET.






its somthing alot of people dont think about. but yea, it helps, even when drag racing.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

thanks, yeah, what Mr Dude said

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

In one case you’re talking about moving weight to the back of the car to change the f/r ratio. In the second you’re talking about allowing the front suspension to “rebound” easier, which would cause the CG to rise resulting in more weight transfer (more accurately load transfer) to the rear suspension.

The end result is not the same since in the first case you’ll technically need to run stiffer springs (slightly) to compensate which will allow you to run more anti squat for a given tire combination where in the second situation that is not necessarily true and it becomes more of a purely geometry issue. Where this would really become an issue is with a car that has enough power and sticky enough tires without enough anti-squat that it could lift the front tires pretty easily/violently where you will really see the difference in the way the car reacts when applying the load to the tires because of each change.

But yea, both will result in more traction

NEEDforSPEED

Here you guys outta get the ball rolling,

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=277754

nape

iTrader: (1)

Started.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

me too.

nape

iTrader: (1)

It'd be great if this thread didn't die...

onebinky

iTrader: (1)

http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticle...reduction.html

Here's a decent article I found when I was looking at their spark plug reading info.

It has some good stuff, I think there are a few in the article that aren't mentioned here.

PRATT275

a trick i see used alot on smaller cars is to pop out the head likes and run the air intake through the whole, gives a little more power and might drop a couple pounds.

JB97C5

Are the T-Top cars heavier?

NEEDforSPEED

yes i belive there are, by how much i dunno

fb305svs

3530 with out me in it...

91 ta with fiberglass hood, alum heads, alum intake, carb, t-5....

woulda thunk the damn thing would drop 40 lbs from the hood, 60lbs over the old iron headed stock motor, and 50lbs after the swap to a t5 from an auto....

figuer it was close to 3700 beofre driver stock....

still have a/c and its a t-top car as well...

nape

iTrader: (1)

Those GTA seats are heavy as hell. You could probably drop around 60 lbs going to seats with manual sliders.

fb305svs

no gta seats... was just a plain jane ta...


it has 4thgen electric seats in it now, but those weights are before them...

Blue1989RS

This thread is getting long, but I'll add my two bits anyway.

1989 RS, full stock ground efx package, AC delete, full suspension with 34mm front sway, home built steering box brace, boxed LCA and Panhard, drum rear, stock RS 15x7 rims, no egr, no smog pump, 2.8L with 700r4, everything else on the outside STOCK.

Non power seats, stock stereo no subs, stock interior, power windows and locks, everything else on the inside is STOCK.

3100 lbs total with 1/4 tank of gas, no people or crap inside. 1650 lbs front, 1450 lbs rear. I weighed it this week so I can start the weight reduction stuff to get me closer to 50/50 distribution. Right now its at 53/47, and it handles really well.