Are there ANY places that sell, make , or know how to make a headlight that just drops in in plalce of your flip headlights and doesnt change the lines of the car. Like a headlight asembly on most cars with the bulb you have to replace and a reflective backing and all that jazz, but i want it to fit into the leftover hole from the flip up assembly.

If nobody makes them, does anybody know where i could find the materials to make this? I know i need a chrome or mirror reflecting subtance, but where can i find a sheet for it, and how would i get the glass for the cover to be the right shape? And most importantly, how would i make it water tight and de-humidify it? (So that the lens doesnt fog)

I have seen the other "pop up headlight removal" forum, but i have got a 91 firebird and since the headlights sit flus, im a bit more limited. I do have many tools at my disposal so that probably wont be the problem, just the execution of the plan should be

 

I've seen that sorta thing on the boards here a few times... Try searching for "lazy eye mod" or something like that. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're going for, but it'll give you some ideas/direction.

Redraif, and Deadbird I think both have done some sort of setup like that. Another member has put in Pontiac sunfire head lights, I forget his sig name though...

 

Redraif has modded headlights that look pretty wicked. Here's a link 1987 Pontiac Firebird - Redraif's Pontiac "RAIF Exterior"

Anyone know if this person (The black bird 1987 Pontiac Firebird - Redraif's Pontiac "Pics of various wild f-bodies") used a camaro hood?

 

that is exactly like what I was thinking of doing, using the early 90's GP low profile headlights... they are like 2.5 or 3" tall...

raifs are just driving lights mounted on where the black tab thing usually is.

 

Since my car is all taken apart right now, I think I might do this. I just have to figure out how it's done, seeing as how when you take the lights out of a 'bird, you have a gaping hole where the GP lights would sit.

 

I thought about the same thing on my bird but the more i thought about it the more i realized i liked pop up headlights. its part of owning a bird!

 

thanks for the help and ideas, however most of the stuff you guys are talking about doing would only work on a 90's and earlier front end, and i LOVE the ground effex on my 91 so keep up the good work PLEASE keep helping me with ideas im totally lost. amnd Fab. seems to be the way to go

 

Does anybody else like the way that black 'birds lights are set up?

 

yeah those are very nicely done but that idea wouldnt work for my 91 front end

 

I had my heart set on '91 bumpers until I saw those lights. Now I'm gonna keep my bumpers, and try to do that.

 

i agree i love that style, so do you think that there is a way that i could make an 80's front bumper look like it fits the lines of a 91?

cuz i was thinking that i could take an earlier font clip and cut out the top area where the headlights and turn signals sit and then cut out a spot on my 91 bumber and put em together with like bolts or something so its strong then use a resin of some sort to go back over it and sand it down so its all nice and smooth like but is that reasonable? cuz then i still have to do the headlight mod AFTER all of that. lol, help?

 

I think that would be even more interesting to see than just the GP light mod, zonda. It would take quite a bit of planning and work, but if you got it done, it would look awesome. I'm not sure how you'd go about it tho, maybe someone else could help. If you do end up doing that, post pics of the process and the finished product. I'd really like to see it if it gets done. Great idea man

 

i will make it a point to post pics of all the fab'ing im doing. here's a list of exterior and performance mods i plan on doing

-91 front bumper with GP light mod

-welding together the headlight steel plate to the hood

-then making the 96 ram-air style hood into a fiberglass hood -bending and welding my own roll bar

-creating fiberglass t-tops for race day :-D

-making my own white face gauge cluster

-im thinking about a fiberglass dash just cuz they're "sleek"

-digital speedometer built into my pilot D-shaped steering wheel

-and to top it all off either a metallic green paint with a black firebird on the hood or a black paint with a metallic green firebird on the hood, i havent quite decided yet.
Note: that doesnt even include all of the things im buying, thats just a fab list.


here's a "concept" photo if you will, and it is pretty much exactly what i would like for the front of my bird to look like as far as styling goes (paint will not be red)

 

That looks awesome. I'd like to find some white faced guages and get a guage surround set like powermite has. I like the newer mirrors. Are those on your car now?

 

actually yes, thats pretty much the only thing on that pic that is on my car now besides the tires, lol

 

I hope it works man. I can't wait to see how the end result looks like. I'll post some pics of mine and I do it too. Do you have any side pics of your mirrors? They look cool from the front.

 

oh i fab'd them. just some bondo, and cuttind did the trick, it prolly took me a total of one hour and i only had to be there for like 20 minutes i had to let it all dry and then sand it down after.

AWESOME im not alone. what do u think would be best for combining that top area with the rest of the 91 bumper? i figured bolts cuz i knew bondo would have to be used to get the correct look from them. Or is the bondo strong enough itself to hold it? hmmm, a lot of scenarios

 

I just noticed you said you were gonna weld the headlight steal plate to the hood. Why not just find a camaro hood? I'm sure you could find a used one for cheap, and wouldn't have to go through the trouble of welding.

 

Yes - Let us know when you get that done. We'll get the patent paperwork underway stragiht away. To date, no one has been successful at welding plastic to steel, so it'll certainly be worth the effort and expense of patenting the process.

When I first saw the thread, I was thinking that the early '90s style GP and Olds Cutlass lamps would be a good route (with a Chevy hood).

 

Good point Vader. I forgot they were plastic

 

actually, mr. sarcasm, If you've ever seen the pop up part, you would kno that there is steel on the top of the plastic part and i have already taken it upon myself to remove the metal part. SO i have got a seperate peice of steel that goes ontop of the plastic part. ANd to answer your question its because i want the 1996 style hood, with the smaller "nostrils" than the ram-air

 

Touche!

I understand what look you're goin for now. Sounds good.

 

The lights he used are GP or Ols: Cutlass. I think he used the the whole assembly including the turn sigs. In fact, this mod is what lead to the hood alteration. The reason he altered his hood is the same reason I avoided the GP combo. The headlights are wider then our headlight doors and look bad if the hood is not soothed. If you look at my car next to his you can see how much wider his lights are then mine.

This guy took his bird hood and smoothed in the head light doors. If I remember right he used a stock fiberglass hood and also custom altered the rest of the hood. Heck, the car is even chopped! I never spoke to him is person, but to someone who saw the car when it was for sale!

 

The only problem with this, as deadbird found is that the lights are too tall for the blank space I mounted mine in... this is again why I opted to go a different way!

 

i kno you're a mod but you got a smart mouth, so BLOW ME, i wasnt talking about welding the plastic, u take the plastic off and weld in the steel plate.

 

I tried to explain how i did mine on my site! Its not a step by step, but it might give you some ideas! The sites are getting a retro fit, so be paitent.

1987 Pontiac Firebird - Redraif's Pontiac "RAIF Exterior"

 

I know the size of the lights, and that the hood and light area would need tweaking.
If I remember correctly they are 12-13" long end to end. (4+4+3 and the black dividers I think it is almost 13")
The stock drop down area needs an additional 3/4" lowering the width of the lights as well. That means cutting the urethane reshaping and reworking it so it would look right.
Then you move to fabbing metal filler panels for the stock hood.
If I remember correctly the camaro and firebird hoods are two different slope angles. I may be wrong but I think that is the case. It has been a LONG time since I looked at this mod...

 

I saw yours raif and it looks wicked Thats how I came across the pic of the black car. Thanks for lettin me know about the hood situation. I was hoping you'd post to give some advice since you've been down this road before. If you have any more hints that Zonda and I can use, please keep 'em comin.
It would be greatly appreciated.

EDIT: If you know any more info V6sucker, you can throw some this way too.

 

There has been much debate over how to pull off this mod & retain the 91-92 nose... the best people could come up with was to take the whole head lamp out and to make a L shape holder, mount on it a small headlight, and then affix a plexi glass cover. Much like the high end vette replacement lights. There was a version floating around on here a bit like this style I'm describing. I would have worked a bit more on the execution, but the idea was good!

 

You would ahve a heck of a time with bonding... I have not looked at those 2 bumper covers together really close to see how the lines would meet up! You best bet would be to get 2 junk bumpers cut and paste them together. Not sure if there is a bonding agent strong enough to make this mod work and hold strong enough to not crack later. There is alot of flex in those bumper covers... If not done just right it will crack and possibly split.

Another route would be to then try to make a glass mold off the one you make to make one solid fiberglass bumper...

 

the only thing when dealing with headlight covers is finding a plexi or clear cover that can withstand high temps for long periods of time without distorting. Don't think your lights get that hot, turn them on car not moving and hold your hand on them after about 5-7 minutes...

I saw some stuff years ago that they used for prototyping and making custom aircraft windshields that was a resin mix that was actually cheap when looking at this kinda of stuff.

You of course had to make a double enclosed mold, a positive and negitive that connected/sealed and you either poured or injected this resin into it.

Had a very high temp resistance like 275+* and high impact resistance rating. I for the life of me cannot remember what the stuff was called or where I saw it...

I will try to look around and find it again. Hell you could make just about anything with it...

 

A camaro hood will not work as the front end of a camaro is actually made a touch shorter. Go put 2 junkyard hoods next to each other and you will see! The camaro fenders also sit a bit higher than a bird... hence the hood clearance being better in Camaros for strut tower braces!
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Thanks! I try to help where I can!

 

Oh, you really wouldn't want me to do that....

I assumed you were suggesting welding the skins for a smooth, rigid surface. Owing to the fact that my '86 has plastic and die-cast headlight doors, and the '91 that I have worked on extensively has die-cast frames, I assumed they all did. That must be where I went wrong.

FWIW, the site administration decided some time ago to avoid "dumb mouths" as moderators, so I guess it goes with the territory. Sorry if you took offense to the comment, but, given my assumption about what you were planning, I was trying to point out that you might have some trouble.

Instead of hacking up your headlight assemblies (just in case it doesn't work out for some reason, or if you want to sell them as complete units), and since it will all have to be painted afterward anyway, have you considered cutting the corners of a donor Camaro hood and welding those to the Pontiac hood? that would be steel-on-steel and make for a fairly strong assembly.

 

Very good point... the headlights do get very hot!

 

This is another reason why I always get junkyard parts to experiment on! Plus, your car is still drivable! The donor camaro hood corners might work, but I bet the angles would be wrong. You could actually get another piece of flat sheet metal be it car or not, with the same contour and trace out the pattern of the headlight door and weld that! Those diecast doors would be impossible to weld as is! Steel- to steel would be the way to go... or a firebird fiberglass hood that has the headlight doors made in. I know there is one just not sure who makes it! And I think it is a race style so its a pin on! But it is a stock version.

 

especially the conversion lights like my 55 watters.... glanced one once... YEOW it was hot...

 

I'm curious how much shorter the camaro hood is. I couldn't move a camaro hood forward just a bit? I don't want to have to weld paches in my firebird hood if there's a chance I can get a camaro hood to fit. Anyone know a site with the dimensions of the two hoods?

 

The advantage to using hood corners is that the edges are already crimped and finished. Raw sheet metal can be done that way by hand, but there is a lot of experimental material sitting in bone yards.

Corners from anything with a fairly square corner and no heavy sculpting (like a flat Camaro hood) would probably work.

 

what are you, chicken!? lol, I actually am either gunna have to make a bridge-weld or add some steel to the structure. Then im gunna have to grind it all down, but like i said, im then gunna make a mold and then a fiberglass hood so its a slightly different technique.

also,

thank you very much for apoligizing vader, next time, please just dont be so sarcastic about it :-).

Now if you were to cut off the top of an earlier front clip im sure it would fit into the bolt holes of the 91 style fenders, if not, i'll dril new ones. So i figure i could cut off the part i want, and bolt it into plasce on the fenders, then take the part i want off of the 91 bird hood i';ll bolt it in and then bondo it all up to fit, i hope this will work. if not its only $20 down the drain so its not that big of a deal. Trust me good junkyards are a MUST for getting quality , and cheap fab'ing parts

 

Hang around here a while. You'll figure out that sarcasm is my usual M.O. I don't mean to offend anyone by it. That's probably why most members just ignore it. We've got to have a little fun after turning screws and poking keys all day.

While you're scouring the bone yards for parts, check some of the older GPs for fit/measurements. You might even poke around the front ends of some older Saturns and other cars which had a fairly small headlight set.

If you're feeling really ambitious, and want something truly different, take a look at these:

Mini Headlights

 

Haha, yes Zonda, I'm chicken. I haven't welded since grade 10 metal shop, which was 6 years ago . That's why I'm tryin to go the safe route, so I don't end up doin any hack jobs.

 

lol i feel the same way, but i always have a junkyard and a grinder n case i screw up too badly, lo, so whatever. But as soon as i get back into town i'm going to hit up my local junkyard almost immediately. . But i'm almost positive the top part should fit the bolts. At this rate i'm going to plan on having it done by the 30th. i know its optimistic but so far, i have nothing to do this summer.

 

Those mini lights are the same i used.

Sorry its for a earlier birds

 

Those are really nicely done, but i only have one question. Dont u think that having the light there all the time makes it look uglier? You know how you can get light covers? I was thinking that if i were to make my headlights like that that i would have made a fiberglass cover for the headlights just so that the bird looks pretty and isnt just a bare headlight assembly, just a thought for making it look a lil better.

 

Im still in the "testing" stage. Had to redesign the light covers due to refraction.

I was going to get plexi and make the "back" to hide the adjustment screws.

 

Here is a pic of my hood... you can see the front is not exactly straight and the same angle would carry directly over to the corners...


Now in the attachment is the only hood I have pics of off a camaro to get an idea if the angle of the front of the hood is the same and if it would line up with the bird corners...

Get some bird headlight doors and lay them in their presective corners on a maro hood and see what it looks like...

Another potential issue... the camaro hood rolls slightly at the front where as the bird does not! TO bad I dont have a camaro avail or I could run all the measurements. Got the hood, fenders, & headlight doors off my bird! Just thinking out loud.... Need some camro guys to chime in! LOL!

 

Interesting...You got any other pics form other angles????

 

Like i said i have changed it since these pictures.


Updated drawings are here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/2915678-post13.html

 

I asked some camaro owners, and you were rite raif (not that i doubted you). The camaro hood is about 2 inches shorter from the center of the windsheild to the bumper.

Forshock, I think maybe you should try tinting the plexi covering the headlights. That's if you are going to keep the car black. That way they look sort of like regular 'bird headlights, until you turn them on.
I'm not sure if you'll understand me.

 

Understood clear, except the car isnt going to be black forever. Previous owner rattle canned over the silver Like i said still work in progress, but the light coverage over stock is excellent.