I wanted to customize one of my camaros with 4w dr. I have been told its possible by putting the frame on a s10 chassis. Is this possible? Is their a better match then the s10? Any info and pointers would be great.

 

The S10 wheelbase is pretty close, but you'll hafta do a lot of floor cutting to get the Camaro body sit down on it & not look like a lifted 4WD "truck". Unless that is what your going for.

LOTS listed all around the 'net & youtube.

 

ethier way, just wanted to find the best match for camaro frame and 4w dr chassis

 

Your fabrication skills better be VERY good. Gonna take a lot of work getting the 2 married securely.

It is far from a drop on & bolt up.

 

ya i figured that, anything better then a s10 for the job or am i looking at alot of fabrication no matter what?

 

Its going to be a ton of fabrication no matter what. The Camaro is a uni-body car so it has no real frame like the S-10 does. Thats why you would have to fabricate everything to put the Camaro body on the S-10 frame. If you wanted the car body to sit down on the frame, to make it look more natural, there is going to be a massive amount of fabrication involved.

 

It'd probably take less work to swap in a Subaru powertrain then make your car fit good enough to not look obviously wrong on an S-10 frame.

 

Take a camaro body, weld up some bars to brace the fenders and nose on to the firewall, like an x brace.

Cut the front frame out, all the middle.

weld 4x4" x 1/4" plate steal on spots of the floor pan, in the areas where the body mounts are on the truck frame.

lower the body onto the truck frame. You'll need to make some mount points on the front, and the rear, probably by utilizing some lift blocks.


Mounting bodies on truck frames is as easy as it gets, because 100% of the mechanical, drivetrain, and suspension is on the frame, so their is no safety issues like fabricating an IRS into a thirdgen for example. I've done a lot of fab work on truck frames, mainly 80s full size chevy, but the S10s are similar.


There is at least 8 attachment points to the body, two front, two by the door jams, two by the rear seats, two in the rear. The truck probably had 10 or 12 originally.

-- Joe

 

ive seen a couple on full size blazer frames that fit nice but suspensionwise they looked like 4wheelers

 

You know, I'm surprised that someone hasn't shot you down about this. Bare with me...

There's only 2 ways it's going to happen, if you _really_ know what you're doing, or if you have BIG $$$$, and most likely both. This is not going to be easy, there are _no_ parts that will just bolt on, there aren't even common parts to use for this kind of build. Add to that, lets face it, f-bodies do not have tons of space in the engine bay, they have a flat, kind of wide, odd shaped space that doesn't really leave any space to put a transmission/transaxle or any kind of axle under the engine, and if you made the space there is _no way_ that it would still fit under the hood.

I suppose you could look at shorter engine packages like the subaru boxer engines, but besides them not having the bottom end to really move one of these cars well, and even if it did, it would kill some of what makes these cars what they are. Alternatively, a lot of full time 4wd setups are based on FWD drivetrains with what amounts to a power take off on the side of the transaxle that is used to connect the rear axle. This would result in a complete change in basically the front half of the car, and again, completely change the character of the car, not for the better.

Either way, the best approach would probably be to cut all the structure from below the body and start over. Packaging would be a nightmare, it will never work as well as you would hope and I would be shocked if it didn't require constant service and attention.

The fact is, if you're going to so fundamentally change the character of the car, I don't see the point in starting with an f-body over something that started that way to start with, or was built with a layout more compatible with existing 4wd drivetrain parts. Even something with a taller, squarer engine bay like a mustang would be a major step in a better direction but I still don't think it would make sense.

 

The only other "option" is an AWD Astro van but I think that's also a unibody so fabrication work will be even harder.

 

i just done see how you would get and engine in the car with the front axle/diff int he way and maintain a normal ride height? unless you have a serious setback of the engine and trans

 

A guy in Poland used Typhoon or Syclone running gear and crammed it under his C3 Corvette. C3s are tiny compared to Camaros so there's a good chance it can be made to work.

 

How would this work? I guess I've never seen a Subaru powertrain.

 

Here is an idea for you................DON'T!!!!!!!!!with a capital "D"!!!!!!!!!

 

i'll admit, it think this would be really cool, have even though about it. However my ideas usually required blasphemy with the use of the drivetrain out of a evo or sti. Even thought about a 2jz swap...

 

 

http://www.michaelrenz.com/syvette/

 

why such a small turbo?

 

Here I found you one. I also saw one for sale on 3bay.

 

And one more

 

yea, but a corvette has a frame and we get back to the $$$ issue.

 

I never said it would be easy. As for $$$, if you have syclone or typhoon running gear it won't have to cost that much. The Polish fellow did it on the cheap it looks like. (and the welds are horrible)

As for the vette having a full frame...yeah no **** sherlock LOL What's most important is, there's next to no room under the camaro, however on the vette there's even less room so if it fits under there.... (I have no idea how the guy is sitting in the car, but from the looks of it in vids it seems the pass. compartment isn't compromised too badly)

Look where the frame was cut and mated to the new front:


On the Camaro that's where we have the subframe so you will have a structure to build upon.

 

If you could get the ride height down and make it so it doesnt look as if the body is just sitting on a truck frame, i think it would look really good and def have its advantages in the winter. S10 frame + lowering kit?? Could you possibly do some cutting on the frame where the body would sit to make the frame not as tall so it would sit lower on there?

If you end up doin this make sure to post pics of ur build, sounds like a fun project, goodluck

 

How many times can those of us with a clue inform every new person that joins and wants to do something like make a "4w dr" camaro? Why bother? I'd venture to guess that most people that have been around here for a while said "not another one of those threads" and moved on. I'm surprised there weren't a bunch of these posted too:

PS- Where did "4w dr" come from? I'm pretty sure 4WD is the generally accepted shorthand for Four Wheel Drive.

 

Actually, what surprised me was how much wider the corvette frame and parts were than the S10... looking at those welds it makes you think if he did it anyone can...

Again, it's not going to happen on an 3rd gen f-body, not like that at least.

 

Since your one of those with a "clue" why don't you move along to the next thread if you don't have anything technical to add.

-- Joe

 

well i dont have that much custom fab experience, but it seems to me that it would be possible if you were willing to pretty much cut the floor and sub frames off. it seems that it can be done with an S-10 frame, but it also seems that unless you are a very skill fabricator, it would not be that easy.



thats my buddies lowered S-10 next to my camaro, the body sits just about as low as mine, which leads me to believe with some serious fabbing it might work.

 

All that crap in that pic above looks familier....

I think this would be quite an interesting build if done right.

 

what ever are you talking about mark? the camaro is definatly mine. not yours.

yeah, i know its your stuff, but if you think about it, all it seems to need for the conversion to work right is to entirely make a new floor, the trans tunnel might be bigger, and to get it low enough you might have to do what the vipers have for the exhaust, like a half foot high sill so you cant get out the door.

so with a plasma cutter, welder, patience, and skill i think it might be possible.

that gives me an idea.... mark? you have an S-10, and you have a camaro..... hmmmm.... i see a project here.

 

anesthes-
can you really say that you haven't seen enough of these threads to roll your eyes when you see another one pop up?

As for dropping a camaro body on an S10 frame and trying to make it actually fit rather than sit above the frame, I'd expect that the cowl height will become a serious problem. Even with the S10 lowered as it is in that picture, I bet the top of the engine is pretty high up compared to the height of a 3rd gen camaro hood. Using an LSx engine will buy you some height clearance, but I still think the entire engine and tranny will be too high up to fit inside the 3rd gen body draped over it. Also, where would the S10 frame rails line up with the 3rd gen doors?

 

Jeremy,

Yes, but I'd rather critique technical stuff, rather than the idea of doing it.
Color, style, wings, rims, or putting it on a 4x4 is all personal stuff and not technical.

That is more like it.

I think the body would be high on the S10 frame. Like I said previously, I'd locate the body on the frame, make custom mounts and use truck body blocks to make it work. Steering linkage would get interesting. Fitting the tires in the wheel wheels, having wheel centers line up.. Would have to measure.

But you know, I've seen a LOT of crazy things on truck frames over the years. Gotta remember, the FRAME would stay with the truck, when completed it's just a bolt on body, so cutting up the thirdgen and rewelding it wouldn't be of much concern. If it's anchored to the frame in 6-8 places with 1/2" bolts it's as safe as the truck cab was.


-- Joe

 

The whole idea isn't much more than a body dropped truck. So in reality...Take the S10 frame & 3rd gen body to a truck shop & tell them you want a body drop.

I seriously doubt they'd bat an eye & just ....."OK. Come back in 2-3 weeks. It'll be finished"

 

That is kinda what I've been saying.

-- Joe

 

yup. bottom line. its possible if you really want it to be done and have a lot of time money and know how. and a good welding background would be good. if i had the money that might even be a fun project.

 

dropping a third gen on an s10 frame wouldn't be to hard with the body drop idea. but my concern would be the transfer case and font drive shaft would mean you would have to raise the passenger floor board. and i dont know how you'd get that seat to fit in there rite again. my brother in law has a mid 90s jimmy and i have been considering this kind of mod. what i was thinking is to cut the body off the jimmy leaving the floor boards behind. then cut the floor and sub frame out of my bird and weld the birds body to the jimmy floor boards. if you stop there it'll sit about 8 or 9 inches off the ground so the next step would be to get a lowering kit for the jimmy. so you can get the car back to stock ride height. the jimmy's floor board are molded around the transfer case and im not totaly sure but i think the jimmy's passenger seat track doesn't have a rise in the front like the back of it and the drivers seat does. the only thing im not sure of on this conversion are whether or not theirs room for a v8 swap and if theres room for my head. im 6' 2" and my head rubs on the cars roof now so i don't know. but that's how i would do it.
this would be really fun to do and would help out in the winters. i wouldn't want to lift the bird up during this it would be so much cooler if you can keep it low.

 

You must have stock 3rd gen seats, huh?

I'm 6'5", know a guy 6,8" and neither one of us have headroom problems, cause we've got 4th gen seats. Do that & you'll gain the head room you desire.

 

Dont use an s 10 frame the ball joints break easy its a week point i no i used to have one to play with and ver other weekend i was doing the joints the f150 or ranger will work a lot better ive seen one on a f150 for sale where i live it looks realy cool and i want it but it needs a motor and tranny

 

S10's use the SAME ball joints as 3rd gens.

Whatever "i used to have one to play with" you were doing was what blew the ball joints out. I replaced the original ones after about 180,000 miles/19 years. That was 30,000 miles/3 years ago.

CORRECTION....That was the tie rod ends that were replaced, not the ball joints. 210,000 miles/23 years & the ball joints are still just fine, even with my 275s up front, put on about 2.5-3 years ago.

 

how much do fourth gen seats cost? they might make it so i would fit. and if somewhere down the road i do a 4wd conversion with a jimmy i mite still fit. either way i do need new seats soon the part that locks my seats uprite is broke on both of them so ill be looking at 4th gen seats now thanx.

 

I've seen leather seats go for $200 & up, I've seen cloth seats go for $50 & up.

I have cloth. Never liked the HOT leather seats in the summer or COLD leather seats in the winter.

Since they are a direct bolt in, the only issue you might run in to, is if you go with power seats, but even that isn't very tricky. Just wire splicing.

 

you know if i can find a 4x4 s10 and camaro for dirt cheap, i think i really wanna try this, seems like a fun project to do when im suppose to be studying. might have to start trawling craigslist now......

 

sorry to revive an old thread here, and I know I'm not adding anything technically but from what I'm gathering everyone wants 4wd with a stock ride height so it "looks right". Well I live in MN and last winter we probably got between 4 or 5 feet of snow and I don't see how this configuration is going to be worthwhile unless you are driving on glare ice or shallow mud since to go through somewhat deep snow or mud you still need ground clearance and if you want it to "look right" you might have maybe a foot of ground clearance? I can tell you last winter in my 01 grand prix the only reason I ever got stuck was due to the car being hung up in the snow (bottomed out) and not a loss of traction. I'm sure this would perform better in snow than just a fwd car but it will never be as good as a 4wd truck or suv. Sorry to me it seems pointless as it will never do either job you ask of it very well (performance or never getting stuck). So my point is if you want 4wd buy a truck or suv and if you want to go fast keep your camaro and upgrade it. Also the pic above with the camaro and s10 sitting next to eachother I'm 99.9% sure that is a 2wd s10 at least every 4wd s10 I have seen has sat a lot higher than 2wd s10s. The concept sounds cool but when you start thinking about it I don't really see the point if this is something you really want to do how about buying somebody else's project and making it the way you want it, as somebody else pointed out there is some for sale already.

 

By your logic there's no point to owning a Subaru. And if you get five feet of snow in a short enough time that the roads aren't plowed, even buddy with the 10" lifted diesel 4x4 is gonna be no better off than anyone else.

 

first off I should say that we did not get 5 feet of snow all at once but we had 2 20" plus blizzards. I should say that I have never driven a subaru but as I stated I'm sure a 4WD car would perform better than a FWD car in all situations, however any subaru I have seen unless it's been riced out does not sit near as low as a 3rd gen camaro.

 

My bone-stock '99 Impreza is no higher than either of my Camaros, and when I took it through a buddy's acreage last winter it didn't get stuck until it was plowing ~30" of snow. I'm not saying that it's the be-all and end-all, just trying to get you to realize that it's not completely pointless.

 

My wife's impreza is easily 3-4" taller than my 3rd gens, second, have you looked at the layout of the subaru boxer engine? It's easily 2/3 or less the height of a chevy

 

if you are still thinking about doing the 4x4 conversion give me a shout, I saved a 3rd gen from the scrap yard and made a toy, I used a 87 4x4 suburban cut 53 inches total out of the middle and rear of the frame welded plates in for structural support. boxed the frame on the inside center section, removed the front and rear suspension of the camaro, use the camaro brake booster, and steering column along with about 8 inches of the suburban steering arm from gear box, (I used a hime joint) weld heavy wall square tube or pipe to the body mounts of the burban. make sure these are all the same height.... and all clear the suburban frame......

 

LET ME ADD BEFORE YOU ALL BASH!!!!!

I own 4 camaros, from early 2nd gen to 4th gen.... I love these cars so take a hint before you start to bash the 4x4 they are just as fun. and I promise you your third gen is no more special then mine....

 

at first I was gonna say why waste yer time
although now I see this...too cool