82Camaroguy

The car made it safely to Zfab this evening, Sunday evening I am going to start the teardown of the interior and start the prep work items that need to get done before we proceed. Also going to be bringing over all of the C5 parts. Fortunately for us my buddy has a C5, so we are going to be borrowing it to take measurements of all of the angles of stuff while the car is at ride height.

madmaxcamaro

iTrader: (1)

whats going on here?
IMAG00932.jpg?t=1307155338

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Thats the right front A-arm pocket in the K-member

Looking forward to the outcome of this project

madmaxcamaro

iTrader: (1)

I'm pretty damn sure that is not a factory hole

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Looks factory to me. Or are you saying they've been elongated or something to that effect? The basic location is standard...

madmaxcamaro

iTrader: (1)

If you look at the edges they look really rough and it looks like some one made the hole bigger but i could be wrong

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Stock hole in the K-member

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Looking forward to seeing this!

82Camaroguy

Yep, that was the stock a-arm hole in the k member, it just looks funny because of the flash from the cell phone camera......

dannyboyemt

subscribed

Project 3.4 Camaro

I never quite understood the purpose of the corvettes having that tube around the DS, is it supposed to be the equivalent of a torque arm?

82Camaroguy

The Torque Tube acts as a structural member connecting the two halves of the car (on the corvette). It allows for no moving parts to be ran down the center of the car. The torque tube itself does not move up and down like the driveshaft and torque arm do on the camaro/firebird and the center section of the rear end also moves only slightly and it elimantes the need for having U-joints since it does not move up or down. The rear suspension being independant has its own control arms and moves seperately from the torque tube and center section. I am sure one of these other guys can elaborate on that more with a more technical explanation and perhaps a diagram

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

its so you almost HAVE to take the car back to the dealer to have the clutch changed....

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

pretty sure i explained it basically before, post #45. please dont ask questions twice as it just makes a good thread longer and takes more time to read filling it with reanswered questions

Ok i'll try to explain. The tq tube doesn't have u joints... it has rubber couplers... this means less friction and less weight which means more power and less drivetrain loss. Now bc the tube is attached to the back of the engine and the IRS rear (both are fixed to the car) that means there's much less unsprung weight. Not to mention the tube acts as a chassis brace and adds to the overall rigidy of the cars structure. Believe it or not driveshafts flex and bend and wobble... tq tubes do not. This means less friction swell. So less weight, less friction, added rigidy and less unsprung and rotational weight means less. Drivetrain loss.

Oldchevys had tq tubes as well... but tq tubes increase vibrational noise so they ditched it. But they've fixed the issue so now its win win.

82Camaroguy

Thanks customblackbird!

82Camaroguy

Made some good progress on the prep work on the car and got all of the interior out, next up is to remove all of the suspension, rear tail lights and bumper and start tarping and protecting the body and glass.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

now would be a good time to add in a roll bar/cage if you were planning on doing it ever. you would have to do this all again to get a roll bar welded in so you would save alot of time/effort to do it now while its all out. I would also incorporate some kind of SFC if there isnt one already.

82Camaroguy

Hi customblackbird! Agreed, I have the spohn SFC's in the car now, and they made a big difference. I am really considering adding a cage to this thing, just want to make the car structurally stiffer then it is, and add some safety element to it. I don't ever really have plans of taking it to the drag strip, if anything it might go to an open track day but I doubt that as well so I am not too concerned about meeting any legal for the track type of set up. Was thinking of doing a hybrid 10 point without door bars (or maybe removable door bars...) or dash cross bar.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

Swing out hinges for door bars.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Competition+En.../3183/10002/-1

lees02ws6

I just noticed the 4th gen dash. On the roll cage, i've always felt they ruin a car. On a car meant for a track or the strip where they are mandated what can you do? It's a necessity if you want to race. On a street car though, I wouldn't. They look ugly, and get in the way.

82Camaroguy

Weekend Progress! The car is completely stripped down now and we are ready to start the fabrication process. We decided to cut up another corvette since the previous frame sections we cut out had some damage. Below are some pictures from the weekend.

82Camaroguy

82Camaroguy

I removed the gas tank from the car last night, it looks like a stock tank is either going to need to be modified or we will be going with a fuel cell. The corvette frame sections are basically straight and our stock "frame" sort of spreads out to go around the gas tank. I also think the stock gas tank would be in the way of the differential.

92purplehaze

iTrader: (8)

Your car is coming along nicely, good job. I noticed you did a 4th gen steering column swap. Could you possibly give some info as to how you did it, please? PM is fine if you don't want to clutter this thread, thanks!

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i wish there was a vette junkyard in michigan, i honeslty dont know where crashed vettes go around here

82Camaroguy

92purplehaze: The 4th gen steering column is actually pretty easy to work with, the only trick that I found is that the collar on the steering column that slips over the steering shaft (part that connects column to steering box) is slightly longer. Therefore you want to slide the column through the firewall, connect the shaft to the column and the box (leave everything loose) then bolt the column to the firewall and so forth. Otherwise if you bolt the column up you wont have enough slack in the remaining pieces to get it connected to the steering shaft. Hope that makes sense.
tylercamaro: Yes the corvette's seem to disappear after they are wrecked, if it wasnt for my friend I wouldnt have known where to look for the wrecked car. Maybe it has something to do with them being mostly fiberglass and there isn't any scrap metal value.... Not sure...

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

Cool. I'm not the only one who has thought of this. I'm rather suprised nobody has given it any thought yet other than you.

I already have parts from my old C5 left over when I upgraded it. I'm running a gen 1 sbc, so I have to space the torque tube .400" from the block. Not a concern with the LS.

For me, I am going to fabricate a frame from steel that bolted to the LCA mounting points and attach in the rear to the subframe, gusseted all the way. After I mock the drivetrain in, Im going to center the rear differantial in the rear wheelwell and then decide to either chop the torque tube or relocate the motor mounts if needed. Try to keep the drivetrain level as possible as they are practically horizontal in a C5.

My plan was to use a C5 with the rear suspension stripped to the differential case, and make a bracket to locate the upper and lower CA mounting points after I get it located under the car, with a point of reference on the bracket for ride height. Then fabricate

Keep in mind the ride height in a C5 is adjustable using the bolts on the springs.

I need more time...

lees02ws6

People have thought of it before, some have managed to execute it on previous generation cars, including f-bodies. Not many, though, have the wherewithal or desire to overcome the hurdles.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

im pretty sure its because they are fiberglass, i would like to know if theres a graveyard of them somewhere around michigan though

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Wow im glad to see the progress. Can't wait to see how it looks when done! I actually just broke in my 521cuin big block ford the other week. Love to see these cars nodded. Have u thought about doing braketo the front? I just installed BAERs black label corvette front brake kit on my bird. 13" rotors are massive. Im not happy with the BAER kit tho... had some clearance issues with the caliper slider and the rotor.

Anyway about the steering column issues. I did a swap from a 2000 astro van which has solid needle ujoints and is fully colapsable. Bolts right up to the stock column and steering box but has to be clocked 180* out. Swap took me like an hour and gave me tons of header clearance as well as much more responsive steering (more solid feel). Did I mention it is collaspable like 10"... so u wouldn't have to worry about the longer 4th gen column.

Keep up the good work!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Im considering this too. My stock tank might need to be upgraded for larger fuel outlets. However I would rather a fuel cell. Still u can dump the stock tank for like 60$... competition engineering sells a weld in sump. Comes with either 3/8 not or 1/2" not fittinggs. Just cut the stock tank and weld in the new sump andur done. Leave the stock pump in and the fuel level sender. Setup an external pump that's lower than the tank and run the line. When I do my tank for NOS im gona run a -10an for the motor and return. Then a 3/8 or -6an for the NOS.

DO THE FUEL TANK WORK NOW WHILE THE REAR IS OUT! its not fun to pull it all out again. And do the cage now as u will have to drop the tank to weld the rear bars in. And my roll bar is fine on the street. It makes me very comfortable as the 5 pt harness makes me feel more secure anthe door bar makes a nice arm rest! Im running the door bar swing out kit from comp enginneering post before and they work fine. But there are much nicer ones on the market that I would get now but they are like double the price.

92purplehaze

iTrader: (8)

I was planning the astro swap, my main concern is the shaft on the column is 90 degrees off... Do I remount the steering wheel to make up for it? And If you knew what wires hook up to what? Those are my final questions and I'll let you get back to work on that beauty

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

No u never turn the wheel to make up for the 180* off of the steering shaft. U just grind off the part of the shaft that has been crushed so the shaft doesn't slip off the joint. After grinding it off u can pop the shaft out and turn it 180* then slide it back in. Once its in u place a couple of tac welds so the shaft doesn't work its way out. Then install. U might have alittle problem with it slipping over the steering column D shaped shaft as its keyed. Grinding out the joint on the astrovan shaft will allow you to slip it over. A carbide bit will make quick work of all of this. Then drill a hole through the joint that slips over the cloumn part and install a bolt throught the joint and column shaft so it doesn't come off while driving. Its very simple once u know what to do.

dhirocz

iTrader: (2)

I considered deleting my rear seat to move the fuel tank forward. The rear cargo area would be raised and start just behind the front seats, just like in a Vette. This should give enough space under the car to install the fuel tanks as a whole from the C5. This would also eliminate the need to open up the rear trans tunnel to accomodate the torque tube and transaxle assembly.

I planned on doing the front and rear subframes, then cutting out the original firewall and welding in a 4thgen unit to make the entire dash assembly a bolt in. Then I just need to locate a good 4thgen canidate to move over all the electrical components, to make a restomod IROC-Z out of a 4thgen and a C5.

82Camaroguy

Hey Guys,

customblackbird, thanks for the great input! I wasn't aware of the astrovan swap, going to check that out. I've had two 4th gen steering columns in the car, I noticed the steering wheeel was off, on the first one I just took the steering wheel off and moved it (didnt work to well) this column I havent gotten around to getting it all straightened out. I will look into the stuff you mentioned. Front Brakes, yes, I had 1LE brakes on it that I moved to my other car, the plan is to get the C6 Z06 front brake kit from Kore3, I am running C6 Z06 diameter wheels so they should clear, if not I think a custom made set of HRE's are in my future anyways because I want to get rid of the wheel adaptor scenario, I also think that I am going to go ahead and do the cage now, it just makes sense to get it done.
dhirocz, I've got the vette gas tanks so we will see how it works out, the rear seat area/trans tunnel area is definitely going to need the focus of the "massaging", so we will see how it goes.

72vega

iTrader: (9)

friggin awesome project there bud! cant wait to see how it turns out

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

It's been a while. How are things going?

82Camaroguy

So quick update, we've been working at the shop on doing an engine swap on a Audi that lost it's timing belt. That job is done so we can get back to the camaro, I am going over tonight and tomorrow night so we should make some progress. I will make sure to post pictures as we go!

82Camaroguy

Hi Everyone, so I finally managed to get over to the shop last night and worked on some things. I basically cut off the rear support from the frame sections and cleaned off all the resin/glue/fiberglass stuff from the frame sections. I also pulled the transverse leaf and disconnected the sway bar, allowing me to bolt up the suspension to the frame sections. We also had a friend with a stock ride height C5 drop by so we could take some angle measurements of the suspension pieces at stock ride height. The plan will be to fix the suspension pieces into these angles for now by welding up a straight bar where the shocks sit today. This way we can figure out where stuff needs to go with everything at the right angles. I think next is going to be removing all of the rear floor pans, it sounds like we might be ordering some or making from scratch some frame rails that will most likely end up having the stock C5 suspension pieces grafted to. We shall see once things get moving a little further. I am also planning on stitch welding the floor pans throughout the car so I am going to be working on that project as well. Anyways more to follow, this is probably going to take awhile since I get little bits of time here and there to work on it.


This piece had popped its welds so we repaired it.

Better shot of the repaired welds.

h1-vltg

Just subscribed and all I can say is wow....wow and did I mention, wow! Keep up the good work!

theNMBR27

subscribed, I want to see how this turns out.

Dreamcamaro91rs

Yeah I'm getting in on this one too. I actually thought about this myself, but not having the fab skills killed that dream haha. Looking forward to some updates !

82Camaroguy

Hey Everyone, quick update, we should be getting into the heavy stuff starting next week. Life and work have been continually stepping on my toes. Also if your interested at all in seeing another fun project, my buddy is working on putting all of the drivetrain and suspension from a pontiac solstice into a old school Morgan, check out his site if your at all interested, it's a pretty interesting project, the morgans had a partially wood frame (which is pretty crazy) http://mogrod.com/

Recaro trans am

iTrader: (1)

I just subscribed to this. Im super excited to see how it turns out.

82Camaroguy

I have a quick update for you guys. I bought 40 feet of 2x3 metal the other day and cut it into measured sections, these will form the support structure for the car as well as the stand by which we will keep it up off the ground so that we can work on it. The idea being that we are going to be cutting up the majority of the back of the car and want to support the remainder of the car in a way that will not allow it to change shape. The completed piece in the pictures will mount to the rear area of the car where the bumper mounts go through today. This will then be lag bolted to the floor on the other end. We are also making side supports, that will be cross connected, and a front support system. Once these are done and in place we will start cutting on the car, so this should start getting more exciting soon.

theNMBR27

Sort of unrelated at this point, but will you be tracking the car and do you have someone with another car to compare with? I would be interested in how much of a difference this makes in the cars handling.

sk8r fer life

so your pretty much insane....but keep going!!!! this is great work here!

92camaroz28ss

iTrader: (1)

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Any estimate on what the car is going to weigh after the swap? This looks like a great swap, but it also seems like it's going to add a lot of weight.

82Camaroguy

Hey Jim85IROC, the corvette rear end assembly minus transmission is roughly the same weight as a 10 bolt assembly complete, most of the parts are aluminum, the transmission is the same as a standard T56, however the weight is split somewhat because the clutch and bellhousing remain at the front of the car, and the core of the transmission moves to the rear. The plan at this point is to make the car a full frame instead of unibody, I can see some added weight from this but not much more than a set of subframe connectors.
I have some long overdue updates for you all, sorry for the delay. I have been training for some triathlons and haven't had much time for the car.
We now have the support framework for the car built and the car is raised up and supported by it. We stitch welded the framework to the subframe connectors which will be removed at a later date and replaced with a full box frame from front to rear. The rear support structure is bolted to the bumper mount area. All of these mounts are bolted to the cement providing a rigid structure to support the car while we remove floor pans and rear frame sections.





We took some measurements of the rear suspension of my friends stock C5 Vette to determine what angles the a-arms are at to get a base line for the position of the suspension, we then cut up the factory shocks and using roll bar tube made a fixed "shock" to hold the suspension in place at what would be factory ride height.


We then removed the transaxle, transmission and axles to make the assembly lighter and easier to manage once we start positioning it under the car.

We decided that it would be a good idea to remove the rear sections of the floor pan and frame in pieces by drilling out the spot welds and removing each section intact. This way if we need to modify any pieces for reuse we can do so. So I got started with the panhard brace mount on the drivers side of the car, we are going to remove all of the suspension attachment points first and then the frame sections followed by the floor pan.