Drivers side tube in relation to truing bar. Technically it will be fine as im welding ends on, but i will straighten it using the torch/quench system.

Pass side. Way off. This must be the toe and camber the factory puts in the tubes eh? Lol. Jk. Just poking fun.

Truing bar has .015 runout, so I'm fine with that. I'll split the difference and shoot for that. Going to weld brackets on first then housing ends with a little truing with torch in between.

D

 

[QUOTE=-=Z28=-;6361953]The sealed 88128's were used and abused in so many Ford Trucks since, what the late 50's through the 80's with the 9inch rear? Same bearing are used in the Dana 44's I've gone through too.

Never used the oil bathed ones to compare, just never had issues with the sealed bearings.

 

Today i cut old brackets off the doner 10 bolt. Used a piece of tubing to create new radius and ground to fit.

Welds look ok. It will do. Ment to prime under some of the brackets but i can squirt it up there. Plan to epoxy when done.

Here all brackets are on, welded and are all within a 1/16" at worse. Measuring the doner 10 bolt and the one in my car, i found lots of things off from one another. Being my pan bar, lca and torque arm are going to be adjustable, im not too worried about it.

All that's left is welding housing ends on. Going to wait till morning so axle is good and cool and is done moving. Very happy with how it turned out.

 

Looks great!! Wish I could weld like that. I have to keep my grinder handy while I'm welding. lol

What did you use to remove the spring perches from the old axle?

 

Mainly a cut off wheel on my angle grinder. Always wear gloves and a full face shield when using one. They dont mess around when they let loose. If your lucky, the whole thing comes off. If not it's going to vibrate very hard and has the potential to jump out of your hand, slashing and wreaking havoc on whatever skin it comes across. Then when it hits the floor, chances of it exploding again throwing more shrapnel. Key is to always hold them straight in the cut. No twisting.
I also used my torch for one weld.

Thanks for the compliment.

D

 

Mainly a cut off wheel on my angle grinder. Always wear gloves and a full face shield when using one. They dont mess around when they let loose. If your lucky, the whole thing comes off. If not it's going to vibrate very hard and has the potential to jump out of your hand, slashing and wreaking havoc on whatever skin it comes across. Then when it hits the floor, chances of it exploding again throwing more shrapnel. Key is to always hold them straight in the cut. No twisting.
I also used my torch for one weld.

Thanks for the compliment.

D

 

Why did you choose to make your own tubes and bearings instead of welding on the ten bolt tubes? Using the ten bolt tubes allows for the least amount of welding and thus distortion. Careful measurement of the tubes would allow you to shorten or lengthen the tubes. I think you just have to bore the 8.8 tubes to an Id of 2.625".

 

I think the question is why didn't you do it better? Right? Unless it was only meant as a lead into another option when building an 8.8. Not sure.

 

For a few reasons.
1, I dont want c clips. The housing ends I am using get rid of them.
2, This is WAY stronger than a old botched up axle tube shoved in another tube. I've seen how much gets ground off the 10 bolt tubes to make them fit. It's far from just a touch. Plus, the tubing in stock rears is crap. Way out of round with a giant welded seem running down it. Also, just welding tubes in, does not say its straight. The only way is to use a truing bar. And contrary to what many believe, that bar will not hold the axle straight when welding. It's simply a guide. The axle needs to be checked after it's been welded.
3, I have minimal distortion. It's all on how it gets welded and as I have shown, it's very easy to straighten tubes if needed.
4, This looks like a stock rear that has been professprofessionally built.
5, I have the skillset, tools, equipment and time so why not?
6, Just look at it! In my opinion, it's the best garage 8.8 build I've seen on the net. Now i got a lot of help from the net so I'm not being cocky.
7, I wanted to be different. Was looking at buying brackets but I'm not paying 400 bucks. My time is cheap.

D

 

Going to go pick up my tig welder today so I can start welding the torque arm brackets on. Still debating on welding the tubes to housing.

D

 

I don't know the specifics of your car, but I think welding the tubes to the housing is a good idea while you're in there. Not the same 8.8 axle and I think the Explorer tubes are thicker, but I know a guy who had a 99 gt he got into the 10s with a stick and he spun a tube off the line when the plug weld broke. It took a lot of runs to do that, but it screwed stuff up. I know that is likely a lot more shock load than most guys will ever put through it, but it does happen.

C-clips get a bad rap, but with disc brakes out back the axles aren't going anywhere.

 

Mustangs use a different suspension system. The axle tubes in a torque arm suspension don't see as much torque.

 

You could grind the inserted portion of the ten bolt tubes down to 1mm thick and it wouldn't matter as long as the tubes were fully welded together at the periphery of the 8.8 tubes. The ten bolt tubes also don't see much torque. The guys welding the tubes to the pumpkin for strength are rock crawlers or Mustang guys. There are those among us that still say to weld the tubes to the pumpkin on a torque arm suspension because they will loosen up, perhaps they can, but in the dozen or so GM fbody rear-end I've pulled I've never noticed any oil leaks there or wiggle room.

Don't take my reply negatively, I've made many projects on my car into time consuming projects just because I've had time too. I'm just curious.

 

Don't take my reply negatively, I've made many projects on my car into time consuming projects just because I've had time too. I'm just curious.[/QUOTE]

Not at all man. Your thread was very inspiring for me. I was going to do the 10 bolt tube, hybrid, because of brackets location. But after measuring the axles I had here, it seemed like it could be off .25 inch or 5 degrees and still be fine. Now I shot for being dead on so the end result will work. I appreciate your comments and help.
sorry if it came off asshatish...

D

 

Brought the welder home today. Glad I have a skidsteer so I was able to pick it out of my trailer. Shes a toad.
I talked a master welder of 40 years to come out tomorrow to help me learn how to weld cast. So the tubes will get welded, and also the hiltsy torque arm mount. I'm mostlikely going to wrap the snout like tibo did with his.

Welded the housing ends on this morning. It distorted the tubes some. Maybe 1/8". After all the welding is done, I will do a final truing using the heat/cool method.

Thanks again for all the comments and please feel free to chim in. I'll post more updates tomorrow.

D


Root pass. Waiting for my friend to come by tomorrow to see if a final pass is needed. Maybe it will get the tig treatment.

 

Is that housing cast iron, or cast steel? If cast steel, no issues to weld as you normally would.

If cast iron, I've no clue how you could properly weld it to a steel tube.

 

I've read that it can be both. So not getting any positive information from web. The tests I've done tell me its cast iron. It produces the same exact spark as the 10 bolt does. And, if you look closely at my tubes, I've tried a few spot welds, and every one cracked and made the pinging noise as it cooled. There is a word for that but cant remember right now. My welding shop didnt have nickel rods so instead he set me up with some good stainless rods that I can also use when I do my exhaust. I also grabbed some nickel ark rods from my dad, can just remove the shielding material off them and use as a tig rod.

D

 

The hard part of trying to weld cast iron would be to get the CI to actually flow, in the old days, CI was heated up, welded hot the slowly cooled to normalize-this I have never seen before, but my dad told me about it.

I've seen CI arc welded with nickel rod, but never in a structural situation. I hope it works out for you, but before you start, is there anyway you could turn some down on the tubes, or open some up on the carrier and make a sleeve for a press fit?

Also, maybe I missed it, where did the 8.8 come from?

 

I have a fox so I am aware of that, but I'm not sure how that is an argument against welding the tubes?

 

The rear came from 95 exploder.
If I decide to weld them, I will definitely be post heating and monitoring the cooling. A friend at toll welding who is a blacksmith, said to get it to around 600 to 700 deg. This is where the tig is very helpful in that you dont dump as much concentrated heat in one area. Work evenly with the heat and keep it at a stable temp. When done, the longer you can control the cooling the better. I have a few yards of sand out back so I may just dump a bucket load from my skid on it and let it cool that way. Not as bluntly but u get the justs.

D

 

I think what he means is sense I have a torque arm, the wheel torque is dispersed more between the arm and tubes. So not all the wheel torque is on the tubes.

 

If you still have the old 7.5, maybe practice weld on that? I've succesfully welded cast iron many times. Get a hot plate, like you cook with, set it on high under the rear. Shim it with blocks, etc, so its touching the rear. Leave it on for at least 1/2hr before you weld. The cast will absorb the heat, you'll be surprised. Then i heat the metal up more with a torch, just waving it over the metal. I use the TIG torch to continue heating up the area that i want to weld. Then do many multiple TIG tacks using stainless filler rod. Then i connect from a tack here to a tack there, moving around. Not just one run. After welding i use the TIG to post heat going back over the welds with low heat, then post heat waving a torch over the weld. Immediatly cover it with shop rags, towels, etc. Watch for fire, lol. After about 20 minutes i turn the hot plate own to medium, 20 minutes later down to low, then finally off and leave it covered. The longer you leave it covered the better. Theres always the temptation to lift a rag and look at it, but dont do it, that makes the quick temp change. Lots of patience and you'll be fine.

 

BTW, i think your fabrication and welding is great so far. Excellent job!

 

Hey man, thank you!! Ya know I'm still debating on welding the torque arm mount to the diff. I think I can add a few things so it's only bolted on. That way if this dif goes to hell on me I can take it off.

Great advice on the heat plate. If I end up welding it I'll definitely go that route or similar. I have a burn barrel I was thinking I could get a good fire going, wait for good coals, cut some u shapes out of the sides of the barrel and use it like a rotisserie. But idk. Well see. I was practicing tiging today. I think I gotta get a new 60 amp breaker. This one keeps popping. I have a 100 amp but heh, the wires would start melting before it popped.

Thanks again for the reply and compliment.

D

 

Thats the biggest problem with these cars, the torque arm mount. Next time i change rears i'm going ladder bars or 4-link. Its not that much more work.
The burn barrel doesnt sound like a bad idea if you do end up welding the cast.

 

Right, and I get that to a degree but I don't think that it excuses the plug welds entirely from being a potential failure point. This isn't supposed to be an attack on anyone, but here's my thoughts... The torque arm is only going to transfer so much energy elsewhere from a hard launch, and when guys are at the point of building an 8.8 I'm doubtful they are planning to use the springy stock torque arm with a rubber bushing. If someone is drag racing their f-body, it's likely got a much shorter and rigid torque arm setup in it as well. Stock 5.0 Coyote s197 Mustangs were having problems spinning tubes on the stock tires on the street, and that power level is no big deal from a worked over sbc. A sbf 5.0 Ford Explorer axle has never seen anywhere near that level of torque with an automatic trans in front of it all of its life up until now.

You clearly have the resources and skills to weld the tubes properly now while it is out of the chassis, drained of fluid and cleaned. I don't understand the argument against doing it at this point if one was being implied.

 

Taken from post #18. The factory plug welds will hold the tube in. Do what is circled to keep the tubes from spinning - (4) 1" welds spaced equally apart around the circumference.

 

If you are already doing so much welding and have planned on truing the rear end I would go ahead and do some welding because, why not? But what I've read is a number of guys making 500-800 HP (some Chevy some Ford) without welding the tubes to the pumpkin and having zero issues. I think it's a failure point but at what point or what circumstances cause it to fail hasn't been adequately proven. My engine is probably putting down just over 400 HP and will never see the drag strip (trunk mounted battery not to their specs) so I feel very content.

 

Will you be constructing your own torque arm setup?

 

Tig im using.

Playing around on tje 10 bolt with different preheat temps. This was 500*f. I purposely broke it off to see how it failed/penetration. The master welder i had over yesterday said this is surprisingly good and to go with that preheat temp.

Hiltsy mount fitted.

Sense there are 6 grade 8, 3/8 bolts holding this on, im just going to lay some beads in these areas

They arnt the prettiest but they are burnt in good. All tol welding has was small rods so its tough to get a good puddle going.

Using sand to aid with cooling down. Unbelievable how much heat just this little amount of sand keeps in. Monitoring with temp gun.

 

To normalize the temps and properly let it cool, the whole thing should be in sand.

That said, and since from the welding I saw on your brackets, you know how to weld. So, (as you mentioned) the weld to the CI didn't flow well/good.

If you're planning on some HP and hard launches, might I suggest another alternative? I won't go into it if you are going to stick with what you have.

I'd like to ask though, you mentioned you purposely broke that off, could you have done hat with say, your mounts on the tubes?

 

Hey, post a pic of your chunk from looking over it at the top.

 

I think I would experiment with using oxy-acetylene and arc welding Ny-rods (for cast iron) with the coating scraped off.

 

 

oh gosh no. Those arnt going anywhere. Got great penetration.
When my friend was over yesterday he was experimenting with preheat temps. He said with ci you never know really what you've got. So we started off lower and worked up to a temp he thought was good. Yes, breaking it off, showed him how much penetration and also where the weld would fail. Remember, were trying to do this using the least amount of heat. I'm extremely confident this isnt going anywhere.

Thanks for the comment.

D

 

This is the 3rd spot i welded the bracket to. Honestly id of felt comfortable relying on just the 6, soon to be grade 8, 3/8" bolts. But to add some strength around where the torque arm mounts, i figured why not.

This one laid down nice. Walked the cup.

Weldeing around a radius sucks. Im happy with these. Was going great till i dunked the tungsten. Lol

And same on this side. Was going great till i dunked the tungsten. Doh!

Towels worked great. Think it took 2 hours before it was 80*. I waited till it was 70 before unwrapping.

 

I have some ny rods. But I think I'd dump a lot more heat into it. Even brazing requires the piece to be almost red hot.
I may fart around tomorrow with the ny rods. I have some cast pieces I can try and weld together and then try and brake it apart to see where it fails.

 

Ok, I dindt look at the last post, but did see the weld?...those are inclusion welds..no integrity in them at all.

Do you have webs on the 3rd member/chunk?

I'll look at you other post in a bit.

 

Well, you may be happy/satisfied with what you have, and that's good.

But I see undercut on the tube and no penetration into the housing. the light heat line shows me that. I think you've glued it well.

My gut feeling (hope I'm wrong) is when you put it in your press, things will pop and come loose.

If you have webs in that housing, I'd drill (if room) 1/2inch holes, weld to the tubes and bolt to the housing. Let the housing become the weak spot on acceleration.

I know you have the skills, it's obvious. I just hate to see all the work you've done go for naught.

But I'm old now and half to look at all angles.

 

That's the cast iron your seeing. There are no inclusions. When I busted the piece off the housing, it tore the weld from the cast iron. It wripped a piece out of the cast iron 1/8" inch deep. I had a master welder, 40 plus years of welding who performed the test and he said it's a great weld.
not sure what your referring to otherwise. I welded it at 175 amps. It had plenty of heat in it.
Please Elaborate as I'd like to get you up to speed.
I'd be more than happy to smash on it with my 20 pound sledge, but everything I've tested with the sledge looses.

Also what do you mean when I get it in the press?

Thanks for the comment

D

 

Whoops

 

If you are satisfied, that's all that matters!

 

yeah, but we both know satisfaction doesn't cut it.
I truly appreciate your comments.
I spent the whole day yesterday researching cast iron and its properties and messing around trying different welding styles, temps, preheat, postheat.

I found that if I heat the cast and the steel to around 700, I get great penetration in the cast. The biggest issue with heating to these temps or higher, is when cooling, the property's of the cast can and will change if not monitored properly.

The test pieces were easy to cool down as I could put it in a cup of sand and let cool.

So I decided to fill the housing with sand and start heating. Took a lot of heat and time to get to 500 degrees. I hit the areas to be welded again to get closer to my target temp. After welding I wrapped the housing with 5 towels taping them tight.
I am going to wait all day if necessary for it to cool before unwrapping.
I'll post more pics when it's ready.

D

Top left corner, you can see the penetration. This is a actual piece of the 8.8 i cut off. The weld actually failed as there is still weld on both pieces. Welded at 200 amps.

Depth of penetration

Great book.

My bunt cake im making.

 

Where you welded the axle tubes looks GREAT. A little paint, and you would never know.

 

Thank you very much!!
Today I'm doing the last truing stage and then maybe shoot it in epoxy. I have a gal I need to use up from shooting the insides of my fenders.

D

 

I'm really enjoying the progress in this thread. Looks great!

 

My tc came. Long story but these guys are fantastic to work with. If you want a bad *** tc with out breaking the bank..

Hahaha, this adds 10hp ya know.

Welded tje entire length on bottom side. Took all night for it to cool. Was still 70 deg in the morning.

Its ok, getting better. Surprisingly this cast welds clean, nice puddle, wet wo crap floating in it. Its just hard to weld something thats 500 deg. U cant touch it. And the heat coming of it is like a grill. If i do this again, i will make a separate platform for my tig hand to run across. This was welded around 200 amps.


Not a whole lot to post. Housing is done. May take 10 bolt out of my car and put this in, make sure it fits. Start fabricating the torque arm.

So I called strange. 550.00 for axles, bearings, and seals.. that sound right to you guys? Thinking I may do some research and find the part numbers and see what they really cost. Of course the axles will have to be made and I'm at their mercy for that.

Also priced out carrier, ring and pinion sets.
Thinking motive gears and a auburn carrier.
The carrier that came in the 8.8 is a open so it does me no good. Was going to go with a stock ford carrier but I've read if you have over 450tq, they wont last. Idk, lots of hogwash on the net. Unfortunately I dont want to experiment on my dime.

D

 

I'd buy Ford Performance gears, set it up with a solid shim. I'm going to run a stock 31 spline trac lok with the modified stacking order and extra clutch disc for more bite. Have the same carrier in my 5 speed Mercury Capri with a built 347, has been working well on the street for years. Get the axle door codes and go to a pick n pull, a lot of 31 spline 8.8s in f-series trucks as well. I believe Dutchman has 31 spline axles available for these cars, but I haven't looked into them too much.

 

made the panhard bar today and practiced knotching, welding. Man it's tough welding around these small tubes. Pan is just tacked together. I may make the bar a inch longer so there isnt so many threads exposed. It's set up now, 50/50. So it has maximum push or pull distance. Guess well see what tomorrow brings.

D

 

I have to apologize, after looking at the pics that you welded then broke off, I see it was the cast housing, not inclusions. That really is some fine welding.

With the heat you are putting to that housing, any concerns? CI probably comes back as-is?