Guys, it's been a while since I've last posted but I'm looking for some advice and comments. We owned a 1990 Formula 350 for approximately 8 years racking a total of 145,000 miles on it. The body needed paint and some minor rust repair and with lack off storage space were forced to sell it a few years back.

Recently surfacing on a local used car lot is a 1991 Formula 350 1LE car that we have known since it was practically new. It’s a white car with gray cloth interior and has just over 100,000 miles. The body is rust free and appears straight and the interior is very clean. The lot is advertising the car for $4900 but having sat all winter, the price is negotiable and could mostly likely be bought in the $4000-4200 range.

I haven’t driven the car but I have started it idles smooth and accelerates crisply when blipping the throttle. I’ve half-heartedly regretted selling the ’90 and I’m teetering on the fence if this is something that I want to replace it. The RPO label in the hatch area does list UPC 1LE and the car has all other convenience options. It did not have A/C but the original owner installed an aftermarket A/C system when it was new. I might be interested in removing the system but it depends on what is required to return it to original appearance.

What I’d like to know is if the car is worth $4000-4500, even with the A/C. It is otherwise complete and unmodified with the exception of aftermarket rims. The car will not be driven daily but are there any pieces within the 1LE package that are problematic and difficult to replace? I’m also interested in resale value down the road if I decide to get rid of it. I’m not buying it for an investment but I do not want to get killed if I sell it in the future. I am aware there were only 46 ’91 1LE Formula’s built for the model year and know 1LE cars are rare but does the 1LE package add any significant value to those looking for one?

What do you guys think? Buy it or pass on it? Is it a good deal? Comments please!

 

I think its a screamin deal..Your name sounds familiar for some reason.

 

Thanks for the comments. The car has been sitting on the lot since February and the dealer is very well respected. I just stopped down there to take a better look at the car and the owner’s son offered to let me take it for a test drive. I asked how much room there was on the $4,991 asking price and his response was “I gotta get it outta here.” He said he hadn’t had a single person come look at it since I last looked at it a few weeks back. He said I could drive it home tonight for $4,115.

We took it for a test drive and it has a slight hesitation as you tip into the throttle from idle and my guess is an EGR valve. We had an identical situation on the ’90 and disabled the EGR solving the problem with no side effects. The car is very tight and rattle-free and accelerates smooth but does have a bit of a shudder at light throttle, which could again be EGR related or possibly fuel pump related. I’ve got a close friend who has been a GM technician for over 20 years and I’ll be asking him tonight what the causes for that might be.

The body is very clean and original. The rear spoiler does have a spot where the paint has lifted and peeled away but it is nothing significant. The wheels are non-original but they are ARE 5-spokes, which actually look very nice on the car.

Like I said, I’m really not into the car for resale value but more for a driver and to have another third-gen in the stable. Since I rarely drive the ’76 or ’01 WS6 on a daily basis, this car would give me the chance to drive something cool around town and not be overly protective of leaving it in parking lots. After the test drive, I’m considering it pretty hard. I may take $4,000 in cash and see what happens.

I’m always looking for more convincing so if anyone can offer an opinion one way or the other, please do.

 

Was the motor up to temp when you drove it?



Average retail is about 5400 without the 1LE

Pics !

 

Yeah, it was running at normal 180-190 operating temp. Oil pressure was good to in the 50-60 psi range under normal conditions.

I may swing down and snap a couple of pics tonight. It was dirty since it rained today but it still ooked good. The white is still glossy too.

 

Rocky, I agree with 85 T/A WS6. I would encourage you to jump on the car if possible. Assuming it is in nice condition, it sounds like a great find. IMO 1LE's are very desirable. Id guess that a 1LE 350 Formula is one of the best performing thirdgens you could find.

Given the current market for these cars, I would say that you could easily get your 4,000 back if you ever went to sell the car.

Good luck.

BTW, nice to see your writing in HPP.

 

Thanks for your comments Dan. HPP stuff does keep me busy!

Did speak with my friend and he said the hesitation and surging all sounds EGR related. He says he thinks the EGR valve is stuck open causing it to lean out at light throttle.

I'll keep you all posted but I did stop by to take a few shots. What do you guys think?

<img src="http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/augie24/P1010001.jpg" width=640 height=480>

 

<img src="http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/augie24/P1010005.jpg" width=640 height=480>

 

<img src="http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/augie24/P1010007.jpg" width=640 height=480>

 

I think if your not going to go for it, let me know and i'll go pick it up

as far as modifying just keep all the original parts so you can put them back if you ever want/need to sell it. and those wheels do look good on there.

 

Great find. All I can say is buy it. I have a 97 Z-28 1LE one of 48, and 1 of 9 with the A4. I will never get rid of it.

 

Hey Rocky, nice to see you over here! I am Slow75TA over at CP, and bought a 75 dealer album from you a while back.

You Asked:
There are not special parts on 1LE cars that make them any more problematic or difficult to work on than any other third gen. Besides requiring the G92 performance package options, 1LE got you larger front brakes and an aluminum driveshaft, and not much else special besides the AC and radio delete. G92 could be ordered on any TPI Formula, and was required on all 350 cars.

As you well know, the 1LE aspect of the car is only going to add value to someone looking for it. IMHO, that car is worth the $4000 asking price. Also IMHO, it would be easier to resell a 1LE IROC/Z28 or GTA than a Formula. Formulas do not seem to be as desired as the others, even in non-1LE versions.

 

The dealer must not know what he really has, is he using 1LE as a selling point? .......I don’t think so as if he really knew the value there would be a better response.......or maybe there is just a depressed sales atmosphere there.

Those pics really shed light on the topic....clean lines with a 350 inside......Rims that compliment without an overshadowing presence.

1 of 46, you are truely blessed to find an affordable performance car with such a low build number.
:hail:

The car that finaly ended the 3rd Gen / Mustang LX 5.0 War !!

HPP ... I knew it ! That answers my question, thanks Dan

 

The dealer does not know anything about it being a 1LE car nor does he even know what 1LE is. The car basically being sold as a clean ’91 Firebird. I’m sure with the right expose it might draw more but other than those who know what a 1LE car is, nobody around here would have a clue. Hell, I only knew it was a 1LE car because of the original owner.

We’re headed down to take it for another test drive today and should know more this afternoon. I’ve got arrangements to get it on a buddy’s hoist and I want to take it on the highway for a bit. I also want to kick it in the *** once to see how well the tranny shifts under hard acceleration. Our ’90 350 car barked the tires every time it hit second under aggressive acceleration, even with 145,000 miles!

As for the HPP thing, since one of the staff writers has a ’89 Formula 350, I’m not sure if this car will be the subject for any HPP articles but I can’t rule that out. If I do get it, I definitely plan on doing a few mild modifications. It definitely needs exhaust and I’ve always wanted the SLP ‘91-92 Firehawk-type exhaust system so that would be one. SLP or better high-flow intake runners and possibly some shorty type headers. Lots of options but I’m looking for a fun driver, plus it will complement our ’67 Firebird and ’72, ’76, and ’01 Trans Ams.

What to do, what to do…

 

Another thing about 1LE that I have never heard around here but I discovered at a car show, the 1LE Formulas at least came with a few extra braces under the hood. Nothing major, just some extra 3/8" DIA bars inconspicuously placed.

John

 

And another brace

I did not notice any others

John

 

Just an fyi for all the younger drivers out there looking to buy a car.

I spent last summer working at the auction and dealing with dealers quite a bit. On the more expensive vehicles (over $10k) the delaer usually marks the car up about $3k over what they paid. I have seen them higher, but the average is $3000. I would think that if this car is on a lot for $4900, it was either traded in cheaply or was gotten at the auction. The dealer probably owns the car for $1500-$2500. If they are willing to drop the price drastically off the start, there is a lot of room to play.

The dealers get the cars at wholesale pricing which is less than loan value. Do not give this guy that kind of profit. He might be reputable, but he is in business to make $$ and will get it wherever he can. If you work hard for your money, try to keep some of it and offer the guy $3000 out the door.

 

I did follow the HPP 3rd gen issues last year good stuff but did not cover the entire genre of the birds.

Too much focus on the later years and all the cars HPP featured seemed to be all alike, later models with same builds.

 

We took the car out today on both the highway and the streets. When it’s cold it lean surges pretty bad but when warm it is intermitent. We found some recent receipts stuffed in the owner’s manual packet from a local Pontiac dealer stating the previous owner had problems with idle surging. It was at the dealership a couple of times and they replaced the IAC, scoped the engine, and reset the timing to 10 degrees but apparently never got it fixed. My buddy the GM tech assured me whatever it may be is nothing major.

Overall the car is very tight and very rattle free. The transmission upshifts are firm with no apparent slop. Normal operating temp is right at 180 and the oil pressure is good. I really like the car. I was mostly impressed with the braking. I jumped on the binders hard a couple times today they reeeealy haul the car down smooth and quick. Pedal effort seems to be a bit firmer than our ‘90 Formula but the braking feels better.

I appreciate all your comments so far and will definitely keep you posted on the outcome. I was fairly impressed with the test drive today. So much so I plan on heading to the bank tomorrow to draw some cash and begin negotiations. As most of you said here, $4000 would be cheap enough for an original 1LE car but I plan on starting the negotiation in the $3500 range. It’s not worth quibbling over a couple hundred bucks but a couple hundred saved on the price is a couple hundred I can spend on improvements!

 

My 87 Iroc has those braces on them, i couldn't say for sure if they are original of course, but it is a fully loaded G92 car.

 

hmm, we might be onto something here... could those braces be the G92 option???

JOhn

 

Stock supports on 3rd gen, nothing special about them. I have them on my 87 IROC.

Now the big question?? You never said if it had the Big 12" dual piston caliper front brakes that are the major 1LE componet.

 

ok, my firebird does not have them...

John

 

Transferred some money to go begin negotiations and as luck would have it, someone placed a deposit on it last evening and bought it today. Guess it wasn't meant to be. Ah well.

I appreciate all the replies though. Thanks guys!

 

He who hesitates!