I know that this is getting beaten to death, but I'm involved in yet another heated discussion on my message board with somebody over 86 camaros. He swears that the 86 prototypes with the 350 all came with the 5 speed because he saw it in the "Camaro Performance Handbook". I looked it up in the book and it does say that, and it also says that they were 1LE cars with the usual suspension mods. I know that you have repeatedly said otherwise, and I tend to believe you more than that one publication. I just wanted to know what resources you have gotten your information from before I wind up looking like an *** telling this guy that I know I'm right because another guy says so. Plus, I want to get my hands on as many of these resources as possible. Thanks.

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The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

This is true. My information comes from "Camaro, The Third Generation" by Michael Lamm. I have both publications. My resources states:

QUOTE
...in early 1986, Chevrolet announced the availability of the 350 V-8 in the IROC-Z. That came as quite a surprise to everyone. Under the original plan, this engine, dubbed L98, would become available in early March of 1986. Pontiac would get the same V-8 for the Trans Am. A CPC memo dated 13 Jan. 1986 spelled out the preliminary highlights: The L98 would use cast-iron cylinder heads, deliver 220 bhp and 320 lb./ft. of torque in the IROC-Z (versus 210 and 310 in the T/A), be restricted to F-Cars WITHOUT T-tops, WITHOUT air conditioning, but WITH the 700-R4 transmission and 3.27:1 rear axle). According to Russ Gee, approximately 50 running prototypes were built during model-year 1986, but this engine didn't make actual production until the 1987 run went on sale in Oct. 1986.
UNQUOTE

The author quotes a CPC memo -- no speculation here, only facts. If you examine both books, it's very evident which one has more facts with interviews with GM execs.

Pure common sense would also dictate there were no 350/5-speed cars for two reasons. GM had to meet federal gas mileage figures to avoid the gas guzzler tax on the "new" 350 IROC-Z. In my reference, it states:

QUOTE
The L98 was supposed to ride in on the fuel-economy label of the Corvette. We had a little margin in the Corvette's fuel economy so it wouldn't be a gas guzzler, and we thought we were in good shape with both cars (Corvette & Camaro).

'But then the pre-production aluminum heads for the Corvette began to develop cracks, and that delayed production of the L98 almost a half year. It delayed it long enough so that cast-iron heads became standard for the high-volume 1986 Vette engine. The cast-iron heads did not carry the same fuel economy margin as the aluminum heads, and if we'd wanted to put this engine into the Camaro at that time, we would have had to reopen the books on Corvette fuel economy, which we weren't going to do. Therefore, we had to embarrassingly say, Yes, we know we announced the L98 for March, but we can't make it. It was a fuel-economy issue that would have placed the Corvette into the gas-guzzler category.'
UNQUOTE

That being said, it is fact that a Camaro with a 5-speed is rated with a lower mpg's with the same engine. Therefore, it would have been impossible for GM to even consider mating a 5-speed to the 350 in 1986.

The second point is the torque issue. As we all know, there were no 305 TPI's with 5-speeds until 1987. That was because the T-5 (at that time) was not capable of withstanding the torque of the "mighty" 305 TPI. This drivetrain combination was on hold at the beginning of the 1987 model year and introduced about three months into the model year run. The T-5 was never considered behind a 350 for the same reason.

Yes, I see that too. I believe for the facts on this issue, you have to look at production figures. I do not know for a fact if the 1LE was available as early as 1986, but I do know if they were, none were produced in 1986 or 1987. And there were only four produced in 1988, which is considered the first year of the 1LE. (Camaro White Book)

In summary, books have been known to be in error. I have found several in most of my Camaro books. Although the "Camaro Performance Handbook" is a good reference for performance issues, I cannot stand behind the history presented in it as accurate, simply because all other references state otherwise. I tend to believe books that quote GM execs and give a detailed history (including interviews), which is what "Camaro, The Third Generation" does.

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Willie

Supercharged 1987 305 IROC-Z, Daily-Driver, Emissions-Legal.
12.57 @ 111 mph.
12.04 @ 114 mph (50-hp nitrous).
http://www.ozemail.com/au/jca69/mods/williesz/willie.html

1987 "20th Anniversary Commemorative Edition" Z28 Convertible -- Super Chevy Show Class Winner, 1998.

[This message has been edited by Willie (edited September 29, 2000).]

 

Thank you Willie. You provided me with exactly the information that I was looking for. BTW, do you know if "Camaro, the Third Generation" is still in print?

------------------
The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah

 

You're welcome Jim. I do not know if "Camaro, The Third Generation" is still in print. Check out some of the other threads on this board and look for JasonE. E-mail him and ask. He tried to order it, but I don't know if he was successful.

Willie

 

Hey Jim, is this the same guy who was on LS1.com's "Should I buy a thirdgen 305?" post, saying they did put 350's with 5-speeds? And his uncle's cousin's boyfriend's best friend's former roommate had one that was special ordered for him because he knew the dealer's brother's cousin's dog Skippy? hahaha

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1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Hey Kevin,

I knew Skippy. How come I never heard of a 350 with 5-speed back then???

Willie

 

Kevin, I'm not sure if it's the same guy or not. I don't do the whole ls1.com thing. This guy has been a thorn in the side of my website for a while though.

On a side note, I found a brand new Camaro book this weekend. Oddly enough, it's called "Camaro". If I remember I'll post the author and ISBN tonight. Instead of the usual 4 page thirdgen chapter, it actually had the third-gen section broken into 2 chapters! I read the whole book this weekend. It's FANTASTIC. The author said in the acknowledgements that a lot of his info came from a GM engineer that mailed him a 30lb package of information. It also has pics from a couple thirdgens whose owners are on this site. It's definately the best book that I've seen for thirdgen information. Hopefully I'll be able to get that thirdgen book that willie has though.

------------------
The IROC Homepage
<A HREF="http://www.rit.edu/~jli4307/camaro" TARGET=_blank>
View the restoration of an 85 IROC</A>
"I didn't know a bored out Ford could go so slow" -Shenandoah