After reading the source page and how people dress up GTA's got me a little concerned about my recent purchase

-Alot of people say there were no GTA's with 350's and T-tops? Yet mine has both options?
-The model year seems to be scratched out on the door panel? why? (But the Vin matches up?)
-There is a 1988 Olympics sticker on the passenger side window? Why?
-The cowl plate dosen't match anything? (Is it supposed too?)
-Trans Am mud flaps?
-The Air condition control panel is loose and theres no "Custom Air Conditioning" RPO code on the RPO sheet?

Now the good

-Vin matches everything I could find on the car
-The badges are all in the right place,
-Used the GTA Source Page Authentication tips section and it passed
-Car used to be Black which matches the RPO sheet factory color
-No fender vents
-GTA Steering Wheel, Map Pocket
-Gold accents everywhere
-Original 1987 style GTA rims
-GTA seats
-Loaded to the ***** with options, even has digital dash package

....So is this the real deal GTA?

I feel like ive read to much into this haha...but i just want to be a %100 sure before i go around saying i own a GTA.



H= 1987
CC1= T-Tops
L98= 350TPI
Y84= GTA

 

 

 

Y84 confirms it. EVERYTHING else be be changed.

Ad yes, 359/t-tops were gettable, but I believe only in 88 & 89. After that, that factory put a stop to special orders. Before that, nobody had figured out the loop holes to get one.

And in exports, things were easier to sneak by GM.

 

Hahaha you just said only in 88 and 89? this is an 87...see thats the confusing part

 

Since it has the GTA RPO Y84, then it's a GTA. If it doesn't, then it isn't.

Period. End of story.

All the rest of that is irrelevant.

Sounds like a few things have been monkeyed with, and maybe a part or 2 has broken and been replaced with what could be scrounged out of the junkyard. Not too unusual in a car that old.

 

Yeah I know everyone says if the RPO sheet says it Y84 then it is...but say if someone threw in an RPO code sheet from another GTA from a junkyard plus all the other vins?

eh? or is that just crazy

haha...

 

Vin number on the RPO code sheet from the SPID will match the vehicle's Vin on the bottom.

 

You have a Canadian export (z49), which appears to have been a way to get the 350 (l98) plus T-Top (cc1) combo.

As far as the heater & a/c controls, you have the digital dash option (U52), which came with the push button electric heater & a/c controls (C67).

Since you have Y84, and it matches the VIN, you have a GTA.

 

That's important: just you having some SPID sticker with the right RPO on it, doesn't make some car you have, a GTA: it has to be the SPID sticker for the car in question.

There were all sorts of options that either were or weren't available on export models, that differ from what was offered domestically. So what you see posted here and there about "all had this" or "none had that", are suspect, when it comes to exports. One that I can recall for my car (83 Z28) that was ONLY available on exports, for example, was headlight covers; I guess they weren't DOT legal, but they were in some other countries.

 

Ah wicked man thats clearing things up, thanks for the informative post.

But im still curious as to why the year is scratched out on the door panel and the presence of the GM 1988 Olympic sticker? Anyone?

 

Probably, because somebody scratched the year out, and somebody stuck the sticker on there. (not necessarily the same person or at the same time, but maybe)

Beyond that, I couldn't say. If I could explain why people do goofy things, over the Internet and without meeting them, I wouldn't be sitting here giving out advice for free, you can believe that!!! When I get back to my home planet and file my report on these illogical creatures here, I'll be sure to include that as an example of their bizarre and irratioanl behavior.

 

haha but why would someone do that? i fear mabye different year Trans Am converted to a 87 GTA somehow?? (What kind of person would go to all that effort to do that right?)

I dunno it makes no sense what would somebody be trying to hide?

It will probly bug me forever...

Sleuthing is fun!

It will be a show car...thats why im being so ****.

 

Are you sure theyre factory t-tops? Mine has aftermarket ones, it was a factory hardtop car.

 

Positive

CC1= T-Tops

Do you have the same code on your RPO sheet?

 

I don't have my RPO sheet, unfortunately. However, my t-tops have the C&C logo on them, and there's a C&C sticker on the bottom of my hatch.

 

C&C on your t-tops stands for Cars and Concepts. You have an aftermarket T-Top conversion.

The author of this thread has the CC1, which is GM's RPO code for t-tops from the factory.

 

Those crazy Canadians! 5.7L and T-tops.... who'd want THAT on the same car?

Despite the condition, you've found a rare 1987 GTA.... congratulations. It'll be good to see you bring it back to its former glory.

I'm glad The Source Page helped you in your quest for the correct info on your purchase.

 

Ahh straight form the source, good stuff

Yeah the car is sitting in my paint booth with the hood off, still trying to get her started up, I'm a decent body man but not really a mechanic lol...so i'm having a buddy of mine come over and take a look at it (Check spark, fuel lines, and compression) I'm really looking forward to gettin her started this week (Car has been sitting for 5 years) and believe me shes gunna look fantastic once i get a fresh coat of paint on! Already cleaned the interior top to bottom and looks like i'm done all the research now... I've gone over board a bit...but this IS my dream car...ive never wanted anything else since the days when my dad would drive fast down the back country roads in his Trans Am, I was like 5 and lived on a farm (haha)

He sold it for cows and never kept it around for me but now ive waited long enough and finally got my own. Actually 2 now!...but i'm selling the Firebird. hehe

When i first showed him the GTA he said he had flash backs and a major case of nostalgia...

Still anyone know why the year would be scratched out?

Olympic sticker?

Sayyy Frankie I registered on GTA source page not to long ago and i'm eagerly waiting for the activation of my account. I don't think it will let me post untill its activated.

Could ja' help me out a little!

Thanks guys

 

:S You pulled the sticker out.

The year probably got scratched out from a piece of gravel or something in the door. It happens. My door doesn't have ANY stickers, because it's not the door my car was given at the factory.

Also, maybe the dealer that had the car was a supporter for the Olympics, and stuck it on every car they sold. Or GM had them stick it on every car they sold.

Your VIN in your windshield looks a wee bit rusty, and doesn't have the special rosette rivets used ONLY on VIN numbers. I'm not sure if my 87 does, but I will go check in the morning for you.

 

Here is another one with the CC1 & T-tops, and yes to date the only way that I know of to get T-tops & a 350 in 1987 on FIREBIRDS was to have the car exported. The reason why is VERY simple and it has nothing to do with the amount the car would flex under the stress BS. It has to do with fuel economy. T-top cars were slightly heavier therefore the economy would suffer and dip below the magic number of 22.5 average. Another oddity was that in the US with the 350 you could not get on a GTA with the 350... The rear hatch cover, and the subwoofer amp control option... Your car has all three, AND the digital gages.

I looked at the list of RPO's and yours is identical to this one except for yours has the DG7 option.

John

 

JT covered it: Canadian export, electronic A/C. All labels with your VIN match, and the SPID label verifies all the RPOs, including Y84. So congrats on finding a nice car to revive.

-Being a Canadian car, perhaps it was used at the 1988 Winter Olympic Games in Calgary, or maybe the car's original owner visited the games. I doubt there was an official "Commemorative Package," at least, not in the USA, but maybe in Canada. So it was probably just a personal touch someone added.

-Unlike '85 and earlier cowl plates, which referenced specific build options and date, the numbers on '86 and later cowl plates represent the build sheet number only. For decoding anything other info, it's meaningless.

-I don't think you'll find that mud-flaps were ever a factory option(but maybe in Canada ). But from the look of the mud on those tires, it's a good thing someone put them on!

Unless you can find the person who did it, it's impossible to know why it happened. Anyway, the VIN matches everything else, so you know the label hasn't been changed. I'd say you're gonna have to let this one go.

The only other thing I have to add is, since your SPID label has been removed from the car, don't lose it! Tape it back where it's supposed to go, or keep it in a sacred place where it has no chance of getting lost or thrown away. You've already learned how valuable it is, and it's irreplaceable.

 

I'm going to lamenate it and then double side tape it right back on, heh

Yeah true could be, but looks like it was scratched out with a pen cause theres ink marks in it lol...Yea i'll let it go

Yeah I'm thinking that too, cause they advertise for the 2010 winter olympics here in Canada and i see those stickers everywhere.

Yeah check it out, I just checked out my Firebird and it has the same type of rounded rivets on it's VIN too. So yeah i dunno, never heard of special rosette rivets.

Ah ok

Yeah i had to push it through a mud pit to get it in the shop XD I'm missing one on the left side tho

Ahh cool yea the flex thing is what i always thought it was about, I dont care about economy or else i wouldnt be driving a Firebird! id probly be stuck with a 4 cylinder FWD import that has no *****! thanks for clearing it up. this is too cool.

Another interesting thing is it's the same year i was born...me and this car are 20 years old (Cars in better shape then me tho XD)

Thanks!

 

i have a GTA with 350 and T-Tops, all stock, its an 89 though.

 

Both of my GTAs have the 350, t-tops and automatics. One is a 1988 black with tan cloth interior and the other is a red 1989 with tan leather interior. Neither have digital dash. Both have N10 dual cats, aluminum driveshafts and disc brakes all around. The 1988 has iron rear calipers and the 1989 has the PBR aluminum rear calipers. I wasn't aware that a 350 with t-tops was at all rare until post-1990. And even then ther were ways around it. GM says that no 350 cars could have t-tops with the 350 after 1990, but I know of at least 4 factory t-top 1992 Formulas on this board.

ALso, to the original poster, the badge color should match the car color. Yours are black badges on a red car......



Kevin

 

Perhaps they are the old badges. His RPO sheet shows 41U, which is a black exterior.

 

Good catch! I missed the 41Upper color....

 

No, the Formula was available starting in '91 with the 5.7L, CC1, and the PW7 rims only. Help me out, John....

 

I didn't know that about the Formys. What are the PW7 wheels? Formula wheels or the crosslace GTA style?

Kevin

 

"PW7" was the code for the diamond-spoke GTA rims.

 

Is mine one of them?

 

Seek the truth and the truth will set you free...

What appears to be the case as far as L98 and T-tops appears to be shrouded in mystery more than anything... Fortuantely were blessed with people like FrankieRider2 who has some contacts that have really helped with solving why the combo seemed to be NA in 1987 & 1988 and again in 1990 thru 1992. Here is the scoop.

FACT: For every 10% you reduce in weight you GAIN 8% in fuel economy.
FACT: T-tops were NA on the 350 cars for FUEL ECONOMY reasons and when the cars were introduced with the L98 for 1987 The T-top option caused the cars to be too heavy for the US EPA standards and the cars would have been taxed $1000 when they dropped below the magic number of 22.5 Mpg average. THis continued thru 1988 to the best of my knowledge.

--- I would love to see Kwik89GTA's RPO sheet from his 1988... I think it would be interesing. ---

Since we have the EPA here in the US and the Canadians have a slightly different set of rules in 1987 it would appear that the only way to get a T-top Firebird with the 350 would have been to move to Canada or at least go there to buy your Firebird and then bring it back to the US.

In 1989 Everything changed and for the single model year anyone could apparently order a T-top 350 car, I suspect that they got the programming such on the 350 engines to actually be efficient enough to be able to make the cars with T-tops (interestingly about 42 Formulas and 139 GTA's & Trans Ams with T-tops and the 350 were made into Convertibles in 1989).

Once again this ended in 1990 with the new ECM and the introduction of SD computer or MAP sensor which instead of using MAF (Mass Air flow) to calculate fuel used the Pressure reading in the intake to calculate the amount of fuel. I suspect that it was part of the learning curve and they did not have the fuel effecinency ratings up high enough. I do know that the cam in 1990-1992 was slightly less hot as well as compared to the cam specs of the 1988 & 1989 cam.

In 1991 Pontiac figured out that a Formula 350 and T-tops was light enough when the PW7 (Black cross lace) wheels were installed to actually be above the Magic number of 22.5 Mpg. So starting in mid 1991 the Formula was the only car made by GM to have a 350 AND T-tops.

Make sence?

John

 

--- I would love to see Kwik89GTA's RPO sheet from his 1988... I think it would be interesing. ---

The only real difference between my 88 and 89 RPO stickers other than the 8555 black and the 8774 Bright Red are the NB2 on the 88 and N10 on the 89. Since both have dual cats, I "assumed" that this was for the exhaust as the NB2 is listed as California emissions. Maybe not?

The sticker is still attached to the console but I will try to get a pic or write down the list for you, if you want.

Kevin