I've been wondering if the factory high rise spoiler on the 91-92 Camaro is functional. I am sure it was put on there for looks, but I would also think GM would have done some testing on it to see if it improved either fuel economy or downforce, etc.... even if only in a small way. Anybody ever heard anything? Any idea how to find out? (I am sure GM has some records somewhere of what effect this spolier had on the car).

Just curious......

 

if nothing else, its more weight over the rear. im sure its functional in the downforce aspect to a certain extent but its probably not a huge amount.

 

It's light so weight doesn't really matter. I'm sure it helps at high speeds but it would have to be so fast that a street car will never see any help from it. It was for looks

 

During development GM cared about aerodynamics. The early spoilers were heavily tested and chosen because they looked good and were functional. Granted you had to do over 150mph to see the benefits, but the theory was sound. By the mid 80's I don't know that GM really cared anymore. Does the 88 Sport Coupe spoiler do anything? I doubt it. It's been mentioned more then a few times that the 91-92 Firebird wrap around wing actually creates lift rather then downforce. I would be willing to bet that the 91-92 Z28 wing is a pure styling piece with no aerodynamic function.

 

ah monkey trumpets...I've got a later wing on my '90 GTA. Do you know if the lift affect is material or negligible/ only after a certain speed? I'm trying to improve rear traction>>

 

Are you exceeding 150mph/241kph on the Autobahn? If not, a rear wing is really only extra weight, not adding downforce & increasing traction.

 

I wonder if the cars would go, say 160+ mph, if that rear spoiler would help or hurt the handling/performance? I would have to think that somewhere, sometime, someone at GM asked the same question and checked it out on a test track or in the wind tunnel. Finding out would seem impossible. I wonder how hard it'd be to talk to one of teh engineers who designed it.....it'd be an interesting conversation......

 

The chances are just as good that the later spoilers will cause more problems then they fix if they ever reach speeds high enough to have an aerodynamic effect. But unless you're planning on running on a salt flat or around a super speedway, it's greatly irrelevant. The early spoilers were tested and modified based on wind tunnel testing. By the time the later spoilers came around I doubt GM really cared anymore. If they were even tested, it's doubtful that GM would be honest about any negative effects.

Case in point, the 1991 Firebird brochure has a graphic, illustrating the new aerowing, the caption says it's designed to reduce drag and increase downforce. But if you look at the actual wing, the top and the bottom are both contoured into an airfoil shape which would create a lifting surface. The early, pedestal style, 82 Trans Am spoiler is flat across the top, and airfoiled across the bottom, which creates downforce.

Fortunately it doesn't matter at the speeds these cars are capable of traveling in the real world.

 

Stock spoilers are engineered by the styling department. Function gets no consideration.

 

Not correct in all cases.

The 85-90 style aero spoiler was effective at speeds over 100. GM did research it. The ground effect package designed for early TA's and later adopted as a more permanent form on 85-90 TA/GTAs was also designed to increase downforce at speed.

The Thirdgen TransAm was the first production bodied car to break 300mph. Look up the Kugel Motorsports TA, check out what spoiler is sitting on the back of that car. It may have a 91-92 front end, but thats a 85-90 spoiler.



http://www.kugelkomponents.com/bonne...onneville.html

 

I remember back when the 4th gen was being introduced that there was a delay in production. Part of the reason for the delay was that GM was working on a redesign for the windshield wipers; as they would 'walk' up the windshield at sustained speeds of over 120mph. Now, you would think GM wouldn't care too much about that; who drives at sustained speeds over 120mph? But they did. I would have to think that they must have paid some attention to the effect these spoilers had on our cars. I plan to do a little digging.... will let you know what, if anything, I find. (yes, I know this whole thing may be pointless, but I'm curious now and would like to know more history behind the spoiler).

 

The spoiler is a styling exercise from the 1988 Iroc-Z concept, which had a wing based on the Ferrari F40. That's where it comes from.

However, I can't remember if there is an actual aerofoil shape to the 91-92 high-rise wing, or if it has a lip at all.

Without the aerofoil shape, or some angle of attack its non-functional and remains a styling cue.

 

well if you but a block of wood between the hatch and car, it would give it an angle of attack! lol then it would be functional!



but on a side note i do remember as a kid one time when my latch was broken and while driving, i had a friend try and open it and it was very hard. i dont know if it was the wind going over the car or the wedge spoiler that did it but something i just want to share

 

Thats just normal air flow. Same thing as with trying to open a car door at speed. Al those movies showing actors opening doors at 60mph+ to jump out obviously are not doing 60mph.

Plus car door and a rear hatch have a much larger surface area for air pressure to act against.

I would say the lip spoiler is more effective than the high-rise wing is at generating downforce.

 

You have to keep in mind the situation at hand... Before 1982, GM was pushing for every bit of performance they could get so that their NEW product would get attention and sell well. The same circumstances would apply to the early 4th gens. By the late 80's GM was scrambling for a way to sell Camaros for a few more years while they finished up details on the new car. It's not like a spoiler change, some vents in the aero package, new wheels, and hood blisters all made some shocking new performance change, but rather they look good and changed the cosmetic look of the car JUST ENOUGH to make it different. They didn't have much reason to invest in functional parts because the car was going to be replaced soon anyway. Look at the proposed 92 heritage project, with it's 6spd and tweaks for more power, the prototypes were built on the RS body without the spoiler. If the spoiler was a vastly effective part why would it have been left out?

There's an article in the Sept 1982 Road & Track titled "Trans Am in the Tunnel", reprinted in "High Performance Firebirds 1982-1988". It discusses how Pontiac (and Chevrolet) took the new Trans Am body to the wind tunnel at Lockheed for testing. It explains how parts of the body were changed for best performance, and one of the details discussed is the spoiler. They show pictures of about 4 different spoilers modeled on the Trans Am, one of which is the typical wedge style Camaro spoiler, and the others eventually became the pedestal style T/A wing. The rest of the article shows changes they tested, which eventually became the body used on the 1983 Daytona 500 Trans Am.

At one point they cared, but by the last makeover I doubt they cared about the thirdgen platform.

 

well i can tell you it looks good!
<<<<-----

 

i'm not sure about the camaros but when they changed the front ends on the 91 firebirds the did quite a bit of engineering, the wing is functional, as are the way the stock firebird rims are cut, they do quite a bit to cool the brakes.

 

well, I found this about the 1st gen.... shows that GM was interested in performance, as well as looks (at least back then):

http://www.yearone.com/enthusiast/re...8-21camaro.pdf

 

The wrap around spoilers on the 85-90 formula T/As work. they really keep the car planted and strait.
The 91-2 formula T/A spoiler flat sucks.looks good but anything over 120 and the back end starts to lift, float and wander hard. a good cross wind at speed and your fightn it or n the ditch.
I have the 91-2 on my 89 and and Im going back to the wrap around soon. Fiberglass ones wern't made 15yrs ago when I painted it.
I can tell you this because I have run my car with both spoilers. But the wrap around was very stable to a radar verified 187mph. He got me slowing down thank goodness
I have aslo talked with Jim Mattison about this and he told me they used a little metal lip on the back of the 91-2 Hawk race cars for the reasons I mentioned. I have pix of it somewhere.
The camaros I have no idea if they work but they have a 91-2 wing and it has a lil lip along the top rear part like the F40 wing.

 

If they used a metal lip around the edges of the wing, then its probably a gurney flap.

http://www.allamericanracers.com/gurney_flap.html

 

You have a speeding ticket that says 187?

 

Are the 4th gen wings any better/worse? I ask because it is a common mod to 3rd gens, so it relates to the 'wing on 3rd gens.

 

They were some of the most aerodynamic cars of their time...and even current designs. Sure there are more aerodynamic cars now...but for the time, and their price...they are hard to beat.

When I was in school, I picked Bernoulli's principle as one of my projects. I didnt even have a thirdgen at the time, but I picked the 85-90 TA as my model for the project as it was my favorite car, and had what appeared to be a functional spoiler. I also used a 96 Firebird with a raised stock spoiler (my teachers car).

The Wrap around aero spoiler is basically an airplane wing upside down. It meets all the requirements of an airfoil more or less. And its fairly straight and even all the way across. I can dig up my actual calculations on it possibly. I kept the project due to the amount of time and effort I put into it. But in any case, I seem to remember my numbers showing the spoiler having minimal effect below 100mph, but after that really starting to show. Granted these numbers I came up with wherent GM engineer perfection, but I think they were good enough (give or take). Good enough that my physics teacher gave me an A so at the time that was all that mattered haha.

The 4th gen...not so much. I remember the car needing to go pretty darn fast before you got any real downforce. But it was also harder to calculate because of the odd shape and different surface areas across the spoiler.

That being said, and not to veer off into firebird territory since the OP is asking about a Camaro... Youd have to look at a cross section of the high rise. To be completely honest, Ive never even looked very closely at them. I seem to remember them being pretty flat. In which case, they are likely for appearance as most have already said.

J.

 

Hello All!!

The rear spoiler may not be "functional" until after 100 mph or so, but it sure looks faster with it, than without it!!