JT,
With the utmost respect, I firmly believe you have the wrong attitude towards your "doesn't impact me" stance.

1) You are the admin/moderator of a site that will continue to shrink in scope and relevance as the pool of these cars shrinks. Think about that for a minute. If we keep aiding the destruction of these cars for another 10 years, think about where we'll be 10 years from now. Of all our members, how many that have joined in the past 10 years are active??? I'd bet a whole slew of them have long sold/trashed/junked the car that led them to this site.

2) The less people that own these cars, the less popular they will be and by default it will be even harder to get parts than it is now.

3) If this is an enthusiast website for these cars, why are we ok with the wanton destruction of them for a few bucks in parts? Charlie and Drew are not wrong on this one, and neither am I. I will try to find the link of the '91 Formula I mentioned that the kid parted out because he couldn't sell it...it was a NICE car.

Thanks to Drew, on a personal level, for giving more time to this topic on here than I can. I have a 12 hour workday today, and am writing this while I stuff a sandwich in my face during a 15 minute break from the floor. But, this is a topic that needs to be talked about while we/I have a moderator as a captive audience.


One final note...not ALL third gen owners are cheap. I paid $12,500 for my IROC a year ago, and feel I got a great deal. The owner was asking $14,500 for it...I could've beat her up more, but she was widowed, it was her late husband's pride and joy for 17 years, and I knew fair market value for the car was a little north of my offer. She thanked me for giving the car a good home, and said I was the only one who even offered her 5 figures for the car.

Maybe I overpaid, but based on what I see on eBay for sale prices, I don't think so...and it was the perfect car for me, down to the color. I'll be spending $4,500 to paint my Trans Am later this Summer...a car I paid 60% of that for.

Not all of us are cheap...I just wish there were more like myself.

 

I almost spit soda on my computer screen laughing as I read this. Sadly, you nailed it...

 

Why buy parts from people parting perfectly good cars and condone it when there's several companies (hawks, thirdgenranch) who already have a whole big lot of parts cars?

 

I firmly believe you may have taken it wrong. The "doesn't impact me" stance was from a personal aspect; as in I'm not parting out cars to be impacted if there was a change in policy so I'm trying to secretly defending it because I have a personal stake in the matter.

As far as your argument about the pool decreasing, that happens with or without this proposed policy when you have cars that are no longer in production, but also still being used as daily drivers or being sent to the junkyard, or scrapped, because they've been abused and misused.

As I previously asked, what happens to the car that cannot be sold as-is because people wouldn't buy it as-is? And now, if a policy was implemented to prevent parting out deemed salvageable cars, they cannot list the car on ThirdGen for parts? Does the issue just disappear? Do people start buying cars as-is to prevent the issue of the owner parting them out? Do people stop parting out "good" cars? Drew even said that it wouldn't put a huge dent in the issue.

You would not appear to be fixing a market issue. Instead, that car may sit outside, rotting, because nobody would buy it and the person was shut out from listing it on the premier ThirdGen site. Or it gets sent to the junkyard. Or it just goes to Craigslist or eBay. Is this fixing the problem?

You mention a 1991 Formula and that the owner couldn't sell it and that it was a nice car. If that's the case, why didn't someone buy it as-is before the owner resorted to parting it out?

There apparently must be a reason why some are following the money by parting out a car when they previously couldn't sell it as-is. If the car was so nice, why didn't someone buy it as-is? If it's because the seller was asking way too much, and wouldn't come back to reality, then there's probably no changing their mind. You really cannot expect to tell people what to do with their own car, or how to handle the situation they have, when you have no direct ties to the issue can you?

You know, this is posted in the History/Restoration section - a section that would most likely be in favor of preserving. So we're on your turf so to speak. You would expect that to show in the results. However, despite that, it's not exactly any landslide agreement. Now what if this was posted in the Classifieds, or linked from the Classifieds? Which way do you think that would head?

I'm sorry if you feel my attitude is wrong, but I feel some may be a bit unreasonable. This reminds me so much of the previous thread where some were suggesting we regulate what members are doing to their own car (e.g., installing "harbor freight gauges", "dual exhaust" and cupholders) by moderating the content because they're doing something that isn't agreed with.

It is confusing, Drew, when you was previously mentioning ThirdGens being parted out at a loss as opposed to selling complete, when just a few days ago you had mentioned why so many ThirdGens may be sold as parts rather than complete:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...07-post31.html

To which John appeared to agree:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...71-post33.html

 

I kid you not when i say theres a guy who lives in my area who has about 20 thirdgens, they just sit there, parked neatly, but they are never driven. They are in varying conditions from nice or decent, to poor condition. My firebird actually came from his collection, but I bought it from the guy who bought it from him. He asks alot for the stuff when he sells it, which is a shame, cause if the prices were in a more fair range more of the cars would probably be in my driveway getting worked on..sometimes I wish I'd win the lottery so I could meet the prices and buy them all, even if they arn't worth what hes asking, I love these cars too much to watch them sit and rot.

 

I definitely see less second gens than I see corvettes of the same age. I havent been in the hobby that long, but I'm wondering if parting those out had something to do with it. "It's just a camaro it'll never be worth anything" and suddenly theres almost none left. While the people who recognized that their car was worth keeping did so. I wonder if it'll be the same with thirdgens ten years from now.

It does bother me that I do see people parting out cars in much better shape than what could be found around here. There could be a market for guys down south importing their "clunkers" to us up in the rust belt.

 

I read thru many--maybe most--of the posts in this thread and found the ideas and sentiments very interesting...and very varied, too. I've sort of asked a similar question on this forum before: Why is the RS the poor man's version of the 3rd Gen when there are so few left? Heck, there were fewer RS verts built in '89 than IROC verts, and I bet there are way fewer of them remaining in good condition since they were much more likely to be turned into beaters by young drivers than their more expensive brothers.

Now I readily admit that I'd rather own a 225 HP/5spd IROC/Z than my 170 HP/auto RS vert, but to find one in the same condition, I'd prolly pay 7-8 grand or more, and that's IF I could find one for sale. I have an RS for sale here and priced it for what I think are poor market conditions and I haven't had a single hit, while there's a whole string of members looking for the IROC/Zs.

Are most of the RS models being gutted to supply parts for the IROCs? Tried not to make this sound like sour grapes, but I agree that there are some negative perceptions about the 3rd Gen vehicles that are still keeping the prices at bargain levels.

 

I think we can look at history in this case...
a 1957 Chevy Belair 4 door Hardtop is worth more than a 1957 210 two door Hard top. Ask me how I know. the 210 or 150 were lower trim models. this is a direct comparison like you have. Now if it was a 210 convert that would be priceless but they dont exist. but a 2door should be worth more than a 4 door 57 chevy. but since the trim levels are different.. its a different ball game price wise.

 

It's confusing because you're taking my comment out of context. I was being facetious about the resale values of our cars, while making a joke about the general opinion that it's advisable to part a car when it doesn't sell whole. The point wasn't that you actually make more money parting cars. The point was that a lot of people lose money on Thirdgens, to the point that it's fairly common for people to part them rather then sell them whole.

I don't want to grandstand on the topic. You've heard from a small minority what we think, and when we rant about it, it looks like we're the only ones that share our opinion. It doesn't leave much room for supporters to jump in because we're doing all the talking. But then how many regularly active members are there on this subforum? Better yet how many members does Thirdgen.org have left that really care about these cars? If other people agree with us they need to speak up.

BTW JT, if you really can't get what we're saying, and why we think it's important, you'd have to be really dense. If it didn't seem like you were completely opposed to the idea, to the point of asking me more questions about where I stand on the issue after I've already stated that I've spoken my mind, it wouldn't seem so pointless to participate and make suggestions when we see problems. Unless you really don't get it and are trying to get a better view of the situation, why are you still asking questions at all? Instead of fighting it, wearing us down with the same repetitious questions, try being a little open minded.

 

Yeah, that part I get. Not claiming the RSs are worth what the higher HP cars are. My point is that while there are a bunch of requests for the 'big dog' models, the RS is looked at being an $800-1000 POS, no matter the condition. And it can't be the option levels; the the Gfx are the same, interiors are essentially identical, and most of the RSs were ordered with the same auto/AC/PW/PL/PS/tilt as the Zs. I guess I'm of the opinion that a vert with a V8 growl, whether RS or IROC, is good summer cruiser.

I also presume that if one wasn't worried about keeping the car original, you could easily add modern aftermarket performance items to the engine/drivetrain/suspension to make an RS handle as good or better than an IROC.

And BTW, I'm not trying to hijack this thread. If this is too far off the original post idea, say so and I'll stop.

 

I think you're right in line and on topic... You're not the only one with an appreciation for a lowly RS. I consider my RS to be worth easily twice what my other cars are worth. The biggest difference between a Z28 and a late V8 RS is TPI, hood blisters, and the spoiler. Both the top of the line RS and the entry level Z28 shared the same suspension, most of the body, and similar drivetrains.

 

You know, Drew, the same could apply both ways. You've line picked apart multiple parts of my posts from the start to "fight" your own position, yet, you're asking me to be more open minded to your opinion and spend less time fighting it? Additionally, you've repeatedly used the word "we" to define a few people to suggest that it's up against 1 really dense person. Let's keep things in check. This is the History/Restoration forum - which is in your favor for such a proposal as people here would tend to want to restore, document and preserve these cars. This is probably the best forum for your argument. Given all that, the response is not exactly overwhelmingly in the least. If this was discussed in the Classifieds, where more would be directly impacted, which might be the flip side, how many will counteract?

I could also return you the "you'd have to be really dense" line if you cannot understand the concerns by us forcing a certain view point on a car that doesn't belong to us or even yourself. I cannot imagine you would kindly like others telling you what to do with your stuff. As you're not part of the staff, or even part of the business, you can sit back, watch, and select arguments to support your mood with minimal responsibility on your part. Comforting.

But you want us to go ahead an implement something to control what people are doing with their car, while on the site.

I'm sorry that you don't understand the issues that come with changing policies of the site when actions are being done that don't exactly align with your own views, where you have a desire to have some sort of enforcement as to what people are doing to their cars on this site. Will you be responsible for the decision?

This is very much like the recent thread where you criticized Administration/Moderation for what some people are doing in the community - and to their own car. You specifically called out Administration for some of these practices, as if to suggest we should be regulating them.

I'm sorry that you don't agree, Drew, but at the end of the day I don't think we have a place to control what people are doing (modifications, parting out) to their cars on this site. And some think we're too restrictive as is? Of course I'm still willing to listen and consider valid feedback. I'm not perfect, I certainly won't always be right and I certainly won't always please everyone. And as I said from the start, I understand the concern to preserve the base of cars that are no longer in production. So, yes, I can understand the reason behind the proposal. However, I'm not certain that it's within us to control what people are doing to these cars; their own cars.

But I think when you try to tell me to be more open minded, and fight less, when you're not exactly following your own advise, that we might be just about finished.

Go ahead and blame me, or ThirdGen.org, for killing off the ThirdGen by not banning practices that limit what people do with their own car because the general public would NOT buy the car complete, but instead, dived in when the car became parted out. Or because we have a lot of cash-strapped members using their cars as daily drivers and doing modifications that you don't agree with.

 

I don't think its the same at all. I don't agree with censoring what people do with their cars. If they want to put crap gagues and stupid exhausts in them, then fine.

But why does the premiere third gen website let people part the cars out when OTHER enthusiast websites don't? We're condoning the destruction of that which we claim to value.

 

You may not have been one who agreed, but there was some people (in this thread) that suggested we do some form of regulation as to what people post on this site when it comes to what they do to their own car. So, in that token, I do believe it's similar. You want us to regulate what cars are being parted in the Classifieds via a system that has the members judging what cars are salvageable or not - cars that you don't own, and did not want to buy when they were offered for sale as a whole. In that form, yes, you would appear to be attempting to control what people do to their car on this site.

 

Going back to the basic question of this thread, I think a better question would be: How many 3rd gens does anyone care about? These cars are so terribly underappreciated. I see them laying beat up in some dirtbags backyard. I long for the day when their value gets high enough that only those who truly appreciate them will own them.

 

I agree with you that its too bad RS's don't really get any love around here. '91-'92 RSs seem to scream to people "I deserve a carbed 350 swap or an LT/LS1 in me!!!" This makes some sense, in that they are the newest/cheapest/best built third gen Camaros out there...but it doesn't leave many people who want to preserve one.

I will admit, I've been guilty of this at times myself. When I bought mine, I chose to do a bunch of reversible, bolt-on type mods because "well, its only an RS," so I figured preserving it in 100% original shape wasn't as important. With over 100k miles on it, it wasn't exactly like the mileage was low, either.

I think its really too bad these cars aren't appreciated more. I think the value will have to rise before they are significantly valued by more people. Remember, my dad's first car, a '69 Camaro, was just a spent, junky, used car in 1982...

 

Agreed. Unfortunately there are too many people out there who look down on third gens as ****** mobiles, or view them as too slow or cheap to be worth anything. I own both mine for one reason, I love third gens, neither of mine are the fanciest or fastest things around, but I don't care. All too often they end up in the scrap yard for the wrong reasons, and I've seen some very nice ones in yards in my area.

 

I guess when it comes down to it, you can't stop anyone from doing whatever they want to do with their car. But, I can think of alot of cars which deserved better.
I remember one guy here with an '87 IROC, black with red interior, LB9, M5. The car needed some TLC but was all there and actually looked decent. I asked the "parter" if it ran, and he said not only did it run but it was FAST! I asked, why is he parting it? He said, that's just what he does. He finds them cheap and parts them. IIRC, he sold the T-5 set up for a few hundred bucks and maybe afew other odds and ends and then junked the rest. No one can stop someone from doing that. It's just too bad someone else didn't find that one first.

 

Well said....I own mine as well because I love them, not because its all I could afford. If I sold all 3 of mine, that would put me well on my way to paying cash for a brand new Camaro...

But I don't want a new Camaro. No, my trio aren't the fastest (hell, the IROC could get walked by a new, well-driven V6 Accord, probably), but they're beautiful, handle well, and put a stupid grin on my face every time I drive them.

For me, there isn't a better car than a third gen. I know my 4th gen is faster, a lot more comfortable, has far superior build quality, etc.

It just doesn't seem to matter...

 

JT, thanks for engaging in this topic.

#1. I have not done my part in the past to report posts that I feel are a waste, I'll own that 100%. The moderators will be getting MANY more reports from me in the future.

#2.The key here that I feel you are missing, is that this website is not a democracy, it is a business. You are in charge. You are responsible for administering a website that promotes thirdgens, not a site full of idiots with no class, no taste, and no desire to preserve these cars. It is your job to surround yourself with moderators that support you and the efforts of this site to be the best technical resource in existence for these cars. I fail to see how taking the back seat and allowing people to abuse this site however they want promotes the cars. This site needs members that are top-notch players that can contribute to the hobby. I for one find it EXTREMELY annoying to put work into the content on this site only to be chastised by a band of idiots who can't read or put together a complete thought. If steps aren't taken to curtail the crap on this site, all the high class play is going to leave, many already have and I don't blame them.

I don't think we're going to convince you of our position, but at least we tried. This site will continue to suffer the consequences of increasing irrelevance if things remain the way they are. I want to encourage you to take a stand and fight for the site. You're not dictating what someone does to their car, you're choosing what this site is going to promote, you're allowed to do that. If people don't like it, they can take a hike. It is not about changing the world, it's about cultivating an environment that promotes great tech and an intelligent community. If that could happen, the details will take care of themselves.

 

That's absolutely pathetic

 

...and that story is a prime example of what should be limited from this site. We can't tell people what to do with their cars, but this site doesn't have to provide a platform for choppers to part out good cars. If that makes people mad then so be it. Is it about the cars or is it about member count?

 

Great post and I agree 100%

I also, have to give JT a thumbsup on something. There are lots of sites where if you are even slightly out of phase with the management's views, they'll throw a hissy fit and start banning/deleting. You however JT, have engaged us like a gentleman. Now, all we have to do is convince you of how right we are. ::

 

You're more speaking about the people on the site, and not exactly those parting out the cars as the debate has recently been. It may be the young people, the new people, the cash-strapped people, or the people that aren't exactly the most knowledgeable. You want us to boot all those people off. I don't think there has been wide agreement on that, despite the annoyance factor may be high.

Those aren't exactly the same people that, apparently, are parting out "good" ThirdGens as has been discussed.

So, now, we want to regulate people who part out "good" ThirdGens, people who may not be the most knowledgeable, people that may use this site more for socializing than anything else, and people who perform tacky modifications that give ThirdGens a continued bad reputation.

Where's the end, guys? Are we getting to the point that we cannot co-exist with people who may not share the same views, opinions or have the same behavior?

 

JT,
Why would it be wrong to ban the parting of cars on a site that celebrates them? Just answer me that...please.

 

Call me old-fashioned (I don't mind), but I'd imagine the*thinking of most members is probably something like the following: *"It's my car, I'll sell it, part it, scrap it or give it away at my discretion and damn anyone who tries to tell me I can't." *I doubt any attempt at 'regulation' will alter that frame of mind, regardless of best intentions.

JamesC
*

 

JT I'm putting all of the people you just described in the same group. The part out guys, the illiterate, and the tasteless. None of the behaviors you listed promote good health on this site. I'm not saying they need banned, just delete the content that is not beneficial.

you don't have to be knowledgable to use the search function or ask a well thought out question.

If people are here for socializing in the techboard, they've come to the wrong place. That is the kind of fluff that makes the site irrelevant and chases away the "high class play" as I've said.

 

You are right. But this site does not have to provide a place for people to do that. We're not removing people's right to chose, we're removing one of their bigger playgrounds.

 

I for one am tired of all the parting out too. I see WAY too many cars get parted out when they are fixable. If you don't want to fix it, sell it and move on. It just pisses me off that people don't care for these cars at all.

Maybe the worst is when someone gets in a minor accident and the insurance totals it. Then the person won't buy it back because they could just buy a new one and move all the parts over. Can't understand why you wouldn't just get a new fender and nose and throw the car back together.

I'm 18 now, but when I bought my car I was 17. I have no job other than doing menial work for neighbors in the neighborhood, but I still get quality parts for my thirdgen. I'm paranoid as hell about it. When the smallest thud happens I worry about it all day wondering what it is. If I see even the smallest spot of rust I freak out. I want this car to last forever, and I don't want to see it go to the wayside. How anyone could just let their car degrade to such a state that it is not repairable is not something I can understand.

Agreed, they can still do it on their own, but they would never be doing it on this site if it was up to me.

 

I think you partially touched on the issue. Like it or not, this is a for-profit business. It started when Dirk sold the site back in 2006. So if we were to do some mass exodus of members, and judging by the feedback of some it would appear to be a sizable amount of members going out the door, then what happens to the those important figures? More importantly, what happens as a result of those figures? As these cars are not in production any longer, and they will continue to decrease due to above-normal abuse and misuse (seems to be a ThirdGen F-Body issue), it would appear to could cause a substantial impact.

You know, there's been times when telling a member to take a hike would have been easier than attempting to reason with or entertain them. But that's not exactly in the interest of any business. Mass exodus of people, especially if it leaves just the civil, mature and reasonable members left, would probably be considered a gift to the staff but not exactly wise for a business. I'm not sure that we can only provide an elite clubhouse.

Being part of the staff, I have to try and accept people who have differ opinions, tastes and views unless it violates our guidelines. After all, this site was for all ThirdGen owners - not for a specific group. Dirk, one of the original owners and founders, was not really keen on banning people unless necessary. His provided the forum and the technical support while letting the members share and enjoy the site.

In my opinion, I think some are forgetting that this site was for all ThirdGen owners and not a site just for those who share the exact same opinion and view.

 

Some want us to force a policy that reflects the views of some in the community by preventing others from parting out their own "good" cars.

Perhaps, you, as buyers, should not feed the source by diving into the parting out threads that you believe is harming the ThirdGen pool? Once again, some people are following the money. They're doing it because selling parts of a car is making them some money while a sitting, rotting, car that nobody will buy complete is not doing them anything. Or perhaps you should step up to the plate and buy the car and restore it if it's worth restoring or saving?

 

I think a major problem of this conundrum you guys are versed with is the sense of value/worth, realistically. Everyone has a different idea of "what it's worth". For example: I have an 88 RS. To some of you - it might "just be an RS, it's not worth anything" ... but to me? I won't ever sell it. It was my first real car. I could've had 5 different IROC's or GTA's I wanted by now, but I don't really care about that. Do I want one in the future possibly? Yeah you bet.. but when it really comes down to it - I keep my Camaro and do the best I can to take care of it because I know most of these cars (regardless of what model) are trashed now. Either that or they're cut up with 22's and a notched out frame and all that other business.

I see some of these cars getting parted out that are in GREAT shape. Why? Because to THAT person, it isn't worth the hassle of going another alternative route (whether it be money, time, neither, both, whatever). Case and point - everyone's got different agendas. I think if you've got the skills and the desire to 'save' a car, then do it for yourself and for owners everywhere. That's what I'm doing with an 87 Thunderbird 5.0 Sport I own. A ton of you guys here think these things are hideous (I know because I used to think the same thing and 6 cars later I found I appreciate every vehicle for their differences). But really, when's the last time you saw a NICE one? This is my car, my story with it in life, and I'm going to show people that even the ugliest wounds can heal given the right medicine so to speak. I bought some parts from a guy who parted out a PERFECT GOOD TITLE NOTHING WRONG Turbocoupe. That's right, absolutely perfect. I tried to buy the car off of him, but didn't have the space.. so he parted it out. He wanted money, and money drives people. I couldn't stop him from parting it out, and it certainly wasn't my right.. so I bought what I needed and could carry back home, and pressed on. Better used, than wasted in the crusher.. keep in mind the rearend I bought is ONLY found in Turbocoupes (8.8 with 3.73's as opposed to the 7.5 POS in the Sport for whatever reason), and they're not easy to find parted out.

Either way, keep in mind - it's no different than some people who view their house as "everything to them" when their car is "just a car". In retrospect, you've got that one guy down the street from you with a cheap house and a 3 car garage with each car being worth $25,000+. These two people will NEVER come to an agreement because their values, ideas, and ways of living are completely different.

In my opinion, there isn't much that can be done about this. Parting/chopped cars are an unfortunate necessary evil that provides an unintentional good for those of us who keep the thirdgen image alive. Barring a person from doing that on here will not save the car. They'll just end up parting it anyways, so why not at least have the parts go towards other people who will appreciate them instead? You must keep in mind that we are ENTHUSIASTS, a MINORITY in the car world. Most people just want to hop in and drive the thing.. they don't get joy out of fixing the car because it's not something that is reflective on THEIR lifestyle habits, norms, and ideas that are valuable to them. This argument is very much a double-edged sword, and it's very difficult to draw a line on this subject.

 

I'd gladly buy it if I had the money. If I was 25 and had a solid job, I'd pick one up in a heart beat to save it from being parted out.

 

Yeah, but you aren't 25/have a solid job ... it's not feasible, therefor going back to my original statement - different lives, different agendas. If it's just going to sit and rot I'd rather see it parted out and distributed. For SOME people in some areas, it's easier to part it than sell it as a whole (certain areas around here are like that). It sucks, but my good friend Joe's dad did the exact opposite. Instead of parting them he let them sit in a field (not one, but THREE 69-70 Mach 1's). He refused to sell or part them, and now they're all worthless and beyond repair. One has a tree growing through it. Now nobody wins. That's just wasteful right there regardless of the 'value' of the car.

 

If you can't support the car, don't buy it in the first place. Simple as that. At least that's how I feel. And if your budget doesn't allow you to take care of it, find a family member that will store it for a while or sell it.

 

JT,
I will ask the question, directly, again. What is the matter with banning people from parting cars? How will that be a bad thing?

 

Unfortunately the ones I see on the road are invariably beat to heck too.
I've seen so many with huge dents in them,smashed bumpers,painted in primer with goofy aftermarket wheels and destroyed interiors that its really sad.

Its very hard to find one in decent shape now,because as they became older and more affordable they wound up in the hands of kids who destroyed them in short order.

I see so many third gens in the junkyard its scary,even GTA's show up quite often...and just try and find a nice all original 1982 Trans am.

 

it would be a bad thing becuase many of us need those parts for the cars WE are trying to save.

come on guys these arent priceless cars by any means and very few of them are worth what we have in them. i hate to see a nice car parted as much as anyone else but its going to happen weather you want it to or not and you sure cant stop it. why hurt the people that need the parts becuase an idiot wants to part it

 

In a previous post, you said:
While some think I don't understand preserving the car aspect (which is untrue), I could say those people may not understand that it's not their place or business to tell others what to do with their own car and to attempt to control it while on this site.

People parting out complete, "good", cars appear to be their own cars. They'll do whatever they wish despite any policy or not. Unless you're willing to buy the car, pay for storage or fund them, how is it our/your place to tell them what to do with their car or face restrictions on our site? It is a form of attempting to control what they do with their car by limiting or banning their participation on this site just because it doesn't align with your own view for these cars.

You've previously said this is about preserving the cars. Drew previously said this proposal would not put a huge dent in the people that are doing this already. It would appear this is simply shielding the eyes and ears from what's going to continue to happen around you while possibly adding further issues (good parts going elsewhere or nowhere, for example).

And if we start this practice, where's the end? Is an LSx/LTx engine swap preserving these cars? Is cutting an access hole for the fuel pump preserving these cars? Is gutting them for a drag car preserving these cars? Drew posted a good example of the former example. A while B4C that's been sitting in a barn for 6 years and has an LT engine and is rough. We probably know it's not going to go without parting - unless someone actually buys it.

As I also previously mentioned, Drew recently called out Administration for allowing people to modify their own car to standards that aren't widely shared - with the suggestion we should be regulating that. If we adopt this policy to control what cars get parted out, how far away is it arguing that the young, cash-strapped, members that own their own ThirdGen can't support to take care of their car properly and that they give ThirdGen's a bad reputation. So ban them too? You and Drew want us to prohibit parting out good cars. 1MeanZ wants us to prohibit the less than stellar membership base from even participating.

 

because they're going to part them out regardless of if they're banned or not. It's their car, and they aren't infringing on other people's rights. Better to see the car parted to the people who need the parts here, than to see it scrapped. They're allowing those of us who NEED parts to have access to them because let's face it - you aren't going to 'save' the car. You telling them they're bad for breaking down a perfectly good car won't change anything. Maybe that's the only way they make money (and yes I know of several people like this.. one being the one with that turbocoupe). The only thing I should see done about it is if they're parting MASS amounts of car/car parts on here, they need to support our site by being a sponsor/vendor/whatever to earn their right to make that kind of cashflow through TGO. You get those people who sign up just to sell stuff on here and I don't agree with that, but if you put money toward our cause - then who cares? We all win, then.

 

There are quite a few in Az, Most all real clean, but one i saw was a real beater.
When they are put up for sale, they go quick!
Lots of third Gen lovers here..
I decided not to buy the 86 Iroc TPI, because I just could not get past the sunroof.
It was really sweet to. No investment there.
PHX has some of the nicest I have seen. But big money.

 

wow this a very detailed and somewhat heated thread lol, but it is right up my alley in how i feel about you broke ***, money hungry, careless, dirty gaming SCRAPPERS!!! so many on here made so many good points that im not gonna repeat them, while the moderater makes pretty clear and understandable points as well....so ill just throw out a solution i think could help without "dictating" anyone....if you see someone parting a car out on here, just call them out or belittle them SOO BAD that they wont want to even atttempt to post it on this site....so then they wouldnt be "forced or dictated" to not post it, they would have made that decision on there own due to them bieng belittle so bad that they dont wanna hear it. idk, sounds like its worth a shot. so long as the moderater dont step in.

i know i hate seeing them parted out. but i cannot tell someone what to do. so i will just talk a whole bunch of crap to them so they wont wanna do it anymore.

 

Could not agree more, I'm paranoid something will happen to my car all the time and everytime something is wrong, no matter how small, I'm milling it over in my head all day till I can go home and fix it. I have a 91 that is really in great shape, just needs a coat of paint. My 86 T/A on the other hand is a real project, and in the course of two years it seems little progress has been made, because I do everything on it right, and right is expensive. If I can't afford to do the job right, I wait. The idea that people neglect their cars (why my 86' is so bad in the first place) drives me crazy. A car is ment to be driven and appreciated, and part of that is caring for it. Its your car, do what you want, but it that dosn't stop me from going nutz when I see a nice thirdgen getting thrown away.

Lately my paranoia stems from cash for clunkers type legislation and ethanol in the fuel, our cars are not built for it, and in the owners manual it warns about 10% ethanol, now they want 15% by next year...

 

what other ways is there of getting money for the part besides this site? craigslist? that's usually local. I've been trying to sell parts from my Mustang there for a couple months now. ebay is a site where you are committed to buy if you bid and people aren't usually wanting to ship. so yes, doing something about it on here WILL have a noticeable effect.
Like I said before, there's plenty other places to get parts than from a good car that some guy decides to kill.

 

Well, I'm not so sure that's going to work. The site does have rules and guidelines as it is. Sounds like your proposal may violate those guidelines.

You're asking what other ways are there for people getting money for parts besides this site? Then, at the end of your message, you indicate there's plenty of other places to get parts from a good car? I guess those plenty of other places may be where they're going to get money for their parts.

 

I have an 88 2.8, im working on the engine stuff right now. doing spark plugs and random stuff like that. im doing everything myself so i have maybe a 3 grand budget after everything. theres a bunch of rust but im in minnesota so i cant expect much. should i post some pics or does nobody care?

 

I honestly don't think so. A vast majority of the people I've seen gut cars are NOT on websites like this (or at all, which is the usual case). They use craigslist to keep it local and quick for cash most of the time. None of that shipping business or worrying about someone not following through on their end. Ebay is iffy because then Ebay gets a cut on their profits, and having a third party in the mix is just more hassle. I've bought a TON of parts locally through CL and some through Ebay, but I've never bought one single part off of here and I've been on here for awhile now. The best you're going to get is someone who HAPPENS to be local to you (and that rarily happens for me and I live right outside of St.Louis).


- Ohsnap, you should post this in the body section of the forums with pictures. This is an entirely different discussion, and you'll get responses over there.

 

JT,
That is the end of it. Right there. I just hope a site for third gen owners, by third gen owners, would prohibit the parting of third gens on its own site. That's all I'm personally asking for. If someone wants to stuff an LS or LT in it, ok, fine. At least it isn't in a boneyard.

Frankly, there's a lot of beautifully modded third gens on here. While a lot of it isn't stuff I'd do myself, I can appreciate it.

As chaz said, and I fully agree, thank you for taking the time to talk about this. He's right...there's other sites both of us belong to that would have never engaged the "commoners" the way you have. Thank you for that. With that said, I don't think we changed your mind any...but we tried.

 

I don't know why this point is so hard for people to understand but I'll say it again. I think we realize that we can't stop the practice of scrapping cars by legislating it out of this web forum. What we can do is eliminate that behavior from this website, which would make sense given that this is a forum dedicated to the hobby.

JT, yes I want to prevent the "less than stellar membership form participating" why does that not make sense? What value are they adding? Why do you expect top notch people to come here and contribute when they have to deal with the riff-raff. The "less than stellar membership" gives the whole site a black eye and further perpetuates the stereotype these cars have. Minimizing their impact in this forum seems like common sense to me.

 

I honestly didn't bother to respond to that quote because I know no matter what I say, people will just spit that back out. Thanks for handling it more delicately than I would've