A friend of mine had a 87 Dark Russet Metallic GTA with paddle mirrors brand new.. Its still around Springfield Il..

 

IMO, the rarest 3rd Gen of all time is "Flame", a Red TTA prototype, one of one....

 

There was 3 87 GTA TTA prototypes according to a few people.. red white and black?

 

The White one made it into production, and there were two Black. One Red....

 

I called, it has been repainted burgundy, so i assume it was flame red with Carmine interior. He also said he put black Camaro seats in it <sigh>.

 

thats a shame still has paddles though! or were those added too.....

 

thats probably the one my dad drove past everyday on the way home when he was 17. He said he had dreams of having it. But then he was probably driving a Chevelle or Camaro. He said it was on a turn table i THINK.

 

This begs the question what constitutes rare? Is it a "factory built car" or one built pre-production for GM to decide to build? Lotus in England had the development contract & did dozen or so Corvette ZR1's in 85, Mercury Marine did the engines. The ZR1 didnt actually get "built" by GM until 89 and actually released in 90. I have an internal Chevrolet letter that there was 12 cars each one in a different color used to show GM Execs possible colors. Some colors never made it into production but these were run of the mill assembly line cars, and were later sold to the public. So what one is more rare / valuable? 1 of 12 prototypes, 1 of 30 pre-production, or 1 of 1 "custom" production? Numbers alone dont constitute valuable and there are several variables to consider.
The two 5.7 5-Speed 3rd Gens someone mentioned in an earlier post were actually 6-Speeds prepared by SVD under development contract for GM. The 92 RS was done in-house by Chevrolet. I recently paid Bill a visit, spent 7 hours with him talking about the 3rd Gen Race program, and cleaned him out of his remaining 3rd Gen parts. For those of you who dont know, Bill Mitchell is the father of the 1LE, (and the baffled tank), he went on to Mustangs in 94 and later ran Saturn Factory Race Team. His history with Camaro racing goes back to the Penske Camaro in 69 so when GM needed to develop the 3G's they went to someone who had experience rather than set up in-house from scratch. Like Callaway with the Twin Turbo Corvette, GM knew to save on R&D and use outside experts. Since they were a Camaro race team, SVD had GM engineers at the shop all the time. Bill probably has forgotten more about these cars than most of the world knows, so when HE says GM built two 5.7 6-Speeds, you best believe it. But does that mean GM actually "built" the car OR just comissioned it, supplied the vehicle and all the parts, and took ownership of it?
As I was looking through his boxes of stuff complete with "GM Engineering Sample" labels on them, I came across 2 PROMS labelled 5.7 6-Speed IROC. I'll snap a pic of them when I pull the box out. Bill told me about the cars and still has a huge pic of the Grey 5.7 6-Speed IROC on the shop wall. I tried to buy the pic but he wont part with it. Bill wont part with much really, but I was able to get every last piece of the 3rd Gen stuff so dont bother to call him & he doesnt answer the phone. With the PROMS, I also got the custom grind billet cam from GM CPC Engineering which was used for testing on them. The cam I got is unused and still in the tube & has CPC Engineering numbers laser etched into it. Theres so much rumor about 5.7 convertibles & 5 speeds you dont know what to believe, but you could say that is enough proof that the 5.7 6 speed cars were built. And you can also forget about locating them; I tried. Bill said the Grey IROC was parted out on the 90's. What led me to Bill in the first place was the chance that he still had the ORIGINAL 1LE car which HE says was an 87 TA. There were TWO and both went back to Pontiac after the race season and dismantled. Remember what these were built for; product development NOT future collectables.
So, before you can answer what is the most valuable or rare, I would have to say that there are two categoreis: 1) prototype / test mule, OR 2) production vehicle. Some people outside museums, won't bother with non-productions because most of the time they can NEVER be driven on a public road. That's why most were destroyed (GM caught on and started selling them a few years ago) but crushing still goes on today. A friend works for AUDI 2 years before it was available I went for a spin in R8 #003. It's now crushed, and the nose is hanging on a wall in his garage. Total waste of a perfectly good $80K supercar...
Anyway, a prototype could be a totally custom built (by GM or others) and only 1 of 1 or (as is the case of 1983 & 1989 ZR1 Corvettes) 1 of a few dozen PRE-Production vehicles used to assess tooling and manufacturing process at the factory. Sometimes they had different interiors, trim, emblems, which changed as the design evolved. Once they served the purpose, off to the crusher.
"Mules" were used for specific on-road testing like powertrain, heat & cooling systems, suspension, etc. These cars sometimes only had the components they needed for systems testing and little else like carpet, radios & passenger seats. A "mule" is slightly different as it was usually based on the current model year, pulled off the production line, and fitted with the parts under development that would later be put into production. These sometimes trickled out to GM Tech Centers for mechanic training purposes. VINS were removed, but they basically were production vehicles and the odd parts were rarely noticed. I recently discovered & documented a 1984 (YES 1984!) IROC test "mule" which was a normal production vehicle ordered by, built for, and delivered to CPC Engineering in Milford as shown on the build sheet. This one seems to be used for TPI system as it has Corvette intake pieces, sensors, etc. and found its way into the public via Tech Center.
Production vehicles are what MOST of the public will be buying so those get more bidding when up for auction, hence setting the baseline prices for them. In December, Barrett sold a yellow 1987 TPI automatic for $18K. It was a 300 mile timecapsule but who wants an auto when 5-speed was available? Everything equal rare options make it more valuable, but do you want one of the few 4CYL Camaros built? They're rarest of the rare but worthless. Everyone has seen the unprepped black 86 IROC found in a storage trailer with 12 miles: on ebay for $35K, then $25K then $18K. I know the car well, and did some research for the seller, but as I explained to him unfortunately it too is an LG4 Auto and therefore "worth" less than the TPI with 250 more miles.
Its the new breed of "speculative" buyers that drive up prices on clean but poorly optioned cars that skew the numbers fpr the rare ones, so value is hard to assess. Collecting cars used to be a hobby, now its become a business and like gold, coal, or oil cars are a commodity to be bought & sold by those who have the money to RISK. Only a year or so earlier the 88 GTZ Concept sold for in the $20's: HIGHLY written about, magazine cover car, led the way for 4th Gen design and sold for LESS than what some average cars are selling for? Had I known it was up, I would have been bidding. CLEARLY more rare and more desirable, but the auction buying public said NOT more valuable. In my collection, I have the yellow and dark blue IROC race car bodies 2 of the 12, 1985 California IROC 1 of 400, 1986 yellow IROC factory TEST CAR, and a Silver 85 HO 5-Speed 1 of 10, a 1992 B4C 1 of 20 and 1LE, (plus a few others) all of which are considered to be rare and valuable. Nothing is a guarantee they're would sell for what I paid. Look at what 69 COPOs sold for just 5 years ago and what they bring now. GULP! Take my advice if you're looking for "the" car to make money and get what YOU like. I didn't buy any of mine to make moeny, I enjoy them & love each one for a different reason. Since I'm not going to sell them, it doesnt matter if they're valued at $1K or $100K. If you want to buy a rare 3rd Gen, ask my wife after I'm dead, but I got to warn you, SHE knows what they're worth...
Good luck with your quest to find the Holy Grail, and let us know when you find it.

 

Rare parts today, for the most part, are things people didn't want back then. You can have a car loaded with all those parts and I don't think it will make the car worth any more than one without them. In some cases it could make it less valuable, depending on the buyer.

 

Where did you come up with the number of California Irocs built in 1985 as 400? I've read on pages 80 and 81 of "Camaro The Third Generation" by Michael Lamm that the number was 502 total California Irocs in black and red that were built. This number was given to Michael Lamm for his book by James Barragan who was the Van Nuys assembly plant superintendent of planning administration at that time.

I'm interested in the accurate numbers since I also own a 1985 California Iroc and have tried to get all the information that I could about them. There isn't much information at all about them! Mine is shown here on Third Gen. Org

Also, what color and options does your California Iroc have? If your interested I have a list of 9 existing and non existing California Irocs and their Vin #s. Yours would be the 10th one that I have located to date. If you prefer you could PM me with the information.

Thanks

 

Let's not get confused here... "Rare" doesn't always mean valuable. In many cases, an item is rare because it was unpopular. People didn't like the goofy mirrors in 87, they still look goofy, so they're still unpopular. That doesn't create value. Most people would probably rather have the mirrors that actually look right, then the ones that look like cheap generic junk that someone added. The same goes for odd colors, unless that color has suddenly come back into style, it's still unpopular. Potato brown was unpopular in 1987, and it still looks really out of place on a performance car now, no added value there.

Options that add value are the ones that make the car more popular. Like increased performance. Those options also have the built in value that they were more expensive to begin with. That means less were likely produced and sold, making them unusual and desirable. That's why 350 cars will sell faster then 305s. No one was ever excited about a 305. To some a manual transmission is very important, which gives some 305's a small boost in value, but still it's a niche market.

The other factor is nostalgia. It comes into play when someone wants what they remember. It could be the car that they really wanted when their parents helped them buy a V6, or the car their friend's older brother had. That's one place where a specific color might be more desirable to the buyer. Usually the car they'll want will be rather conventional. There aren't many people telling stories about their friend's bad *** brown Trans Am.

What I'm getting at, is that the "rare" and "valuable" cars are the ones that don't break the mold, that have the most performance, and features that people actually want. 4cyls, and pre-production prototypes that aren't street legal, or obtainable, need not apply.

 

Umm... T5s had 15 HP more than autos and 10 less than 350s and with their better cam and better rear (3.45) they would hang with 350 AND much rarer AND much more fun to drive!
One of 809...

 

Was the California Iroc a special edition iroc? or just built in California? I know my car was built in California and didnt know if this meant it was rare or had value?

 

Yep.

1989 TTA PAS Inc. #3 Pilot White Convertible (Plate: "1 OF 1" 21K miles)
The White TTA Convertible began life as a Pilot Car, number three in a sequence of five pre-production vehicles. During it’s short life as a T-Top model it was driven and tested by Scott Kelly, PAS Inc. Project Manager. Shortly after the Production 1989 20th Anniversary Turbo Trans Am (totalling 1550 cars) were built; PAS Inc. President, Jeff Beitzel, sent the #3 Pilot Car to ASC Corporation for the Convertible conversion. Jeff made the TTA Convertible his personal car for the next six months, during which time it was pictured and featured in several magazine articles. Jeff Beitzel then sold the car to the highly recognized international collector, Mr. Milton Robson. Mr. Robson maintained this fabulous Turbo Trans Am Convertible in his extensive collection for ten years until he sold it to Rich several years ago.

1988 TTA PAS Inc. Flame Red Design Check Vehicle Prototype (Plate: "TTA DCV" 61K miles)
This is the car that was used to test the fit of the mechanical components, such as the Turbo Charged Buick V-6 motor and 200-4R automatic transmission. All factory scribe marks are still there and intact as made by PAS/TRIAD engineers back in 1988.

1988 TTA PAS Inc. Black Emissions Certification Vehicle Prototype (Plate: "TTA ECV" 54K miles)
This is the vehicle that was built and tested to ensure that the production Turbo Trans Ams would pass applicable emission standards.

 

Nope. Only a hand full of 86 350 TPI IROCs where made. I dont recall if any where ever sold to the public. But if anyone ever says that they have a factory OEM 1986 IROC 350, challenger them by asking for the 8th digit of the vin number. An "F" is a 305-190 HP (LB9) and the "8" is a 350-220 HP (B2L).

 

No 1986 IROCs w/ 350s were EVER sold to the public. Period.

 

Wow. Stern words from a "moderator." Didnt mean to make you upset. Your final words of "Period" was not necessary at all.

 

You hear the same rumor over and over and you get sick of it. Read the stickies on the top of the forum, it addresses both the 350 5-speed and the pre 87 350 rumors. Sorry for being blunt, but maybe you'll remember this well enough to never repeat that there was a possibility of a pre-87 350.

 

Here's some info on the 1C5 California IROC:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-code-z5v.html

 

I'm going to say 1991 Firehawk #003 is the most valuable. Only Firehawk with a 12pt roll cage, only one with drive shaft loops, only other with a fuel cell, the list goes on.

It's a shame, I drove this 'Hawk to the gas station and no one even looked twice, I drive my '56 Vette to a gas station and I can't leave for 30mins so many stop me. It's really sad that lack of recognition these get.

 

Ok. Still sounds like your talking down on me. Besides, it wasnt me who developed this topic of the 305/350 86. I was just replying to another member then you jumped all over me. But Ill take your info and definately rememer that no 86 350's where released to the public.

 

I want that car!


Shame to hear it got destroyed

 

That information is from Rich's website. GM made two Black TTA's for testing, one hardtop and one w/T-Tops, and they brought both of the down, along with just the white one, to Englishtown Raceway Park during the early 90's to showcase them because one of the magazines were going to do a story on them. They were originally 305-TPI cars fitted with LC2's as an experiment. Only one Black one was being raced though, and the freaking thing ran low elevens which was unbelievably fast for back then, people were in awe. It was so fast that my buddy was sitting behind it getting ready to stage, and all he seen was the heat from both sides of the car as it flew down the quarter mile. He was like wtf because he never seen a daily driven looking car that went that fast before, nobody did back then....

Enjoy some of the story from the Bird Man himself....;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJqHTcq_zQY

 

Actually, T5s had up to 25 more HP, in our case. From '86-'89, an LB9/AT made 190hp...from '87-'89 a T5 made 215hp, minimally. '89s with the N10 exhaust made 10 more than that.

I'm with you, though...I think the 305 TPI/5 speed market is more than a "niche." I understand the appeal of the 350, but in all seriousness, I could not be happier I bought a stick LB9 TA. Its the most fun third gen I've owned yet...I like driving it more than my 350 IROC.

 

Feels like driving a real muscle car.... cause it is muscle

 

After driving my 88 about 800 miles this year (trying to keep it to 1,000 or less for the year), the more I drive it the more I love it. Every run through the gears is a blast, and its faster than I expected. Its WAY quicker than my TBI/stick RS was, even with the bolt-ons the RS had. My new TA is stock down to the original GM exhaust

The IROC is far from being a yawn, but it isn't as fun. I'm taking both to the track in September, once they have new injectors and all the tune up parts taken care of. I know the IROC will be quicker, but I wonder by how much. I also wonder how many runs I should do with 2 bone-stock, under 30k mile pristine original 23 year old cars!!

 

Pfffffffffffffffttttttttt.... Go brag about your 305 to any group of car enthusiasts, and take note of how they look at you, change the subject, and laugh at you as you walk away. That is assuming they don't automaticly burst out in laughter directly to your face.

305's are the laughing stock of the small block Chevy family tree.

 

10HP less.. wow.. 0-60 times are the same.. very close in Qtr mile.
Obviously you have never driven a TPI 5.0 with stick (given they are rare). It has a nice cam and will move.

Must be why I have taken it to 3 car shows this year and won 2nd place to a 67 Firebird (had 50K put into it) and won the other... odd since it is a lauging stock.
umm faster than a 396 67 Chevy Z28 in pristine condition.. laughing stock my a**

 

I don't get how they aren't valuable? Unpopular or not Paddles are rare. Don't collectors like limited and discontinued stuff? If no one likes them then why do people say hey you don't see those everyday. Just because you see 5 people who don't like for example that russet color doesn't mean its not valuable. A true GTA collector knows the value.

 

Plus a GTA was one of the best cars of its time. 305 with a 5 speed is underestimated they can do as much as a 350. But he would be calling his car a laughing stock to because he as a 5.0 RS camaro...

 

What does a car show have to do with anything? Given a complete even playing field, the cleanest car should win, regardless of how it's equipped. It's not a popularity contest. Have you ever judged a car show and seen the score sheet for how the car is judged?

I've driven 305 5spds. They're alright, but they don't have the nuts of the 350. Keep focusing on the 15hp, I'll focus on the 45ft lbs of torque. You can feel the difference behind the wheel, and you can hear the difference during a discussion with a fellow enthusiast. It will always go like this, "Oh cool it's a 5-speed! What? It's a 305? That sucks." No one is EVER impressed by a 305. If you get them behind the wheel, they might give it a little credit, but they'll always be thinking "too bad you couldn't get a 5spd with the 350". That's just the way it is, like I said, don't get upset, I'm just being real with you. Why do you think so many people say their 305 is a 350? A third of them don't know the difference, a third of them think because it feels fast it can't possibly be a suckfest 305, and the other third doesn't want to be laughed at. This forum is about the only place where a 305 gets a lick of cred.

Because no one is actively seeking GTA's with those mirrors, and passing on the ones that don't have those mirrors. To be of value, someone has to want that odd variation. Most people would repaint a brown Trans Am a different color, and most people would at least think of swapping those mirrors to the normal aero mirrors.

 

The 307 would be the laughing stock of Chevy engines, not the 305. The 305s were good reliable engines that weren't really originally designed with performance in mind, but they can do pretty good if built right. Of course, they are different animals than 350s, which were built with performance potential, were faster stock, and are capabale of great things.

I think that JE means that his Trans Am is more fun to drive than the IROC-Z because he can shift gears, not because the car feels like a better overall performer than the Z28.

Also, there were no 396 Z28s.

As for the GTA mirrors and color, someone out there would find it collectible, but that person would probably be difficult to find. You never know though.

 

The 307 was never marketed as a performance engine, the 305 was. The 305 is the laughing stock, for no other reason than the GM 5.0 being a pig while the Ford 5.0 actually packed some performance. For years the 305 was best GM had to offer, and it earned a much deserved reputation for being a sluggish engine. Given the choice, the only reason anyone would ever choose a 305 over a 350 is because they prefer the 5spd. Do we need more proof that most people would choose the 350 over the 305 than the production numbers? If the 305 5spd is so much more desirable why didn't GM sell as many as they did L98s?

 

We could really use some pictures/documentation of this all here at TGO.

 

I agree !!

 

The 305 was put into performance cars and so was the 307, but neither were designed to be performance engines is what I'm saying. The 305 was at least a decent engine overall, the 307 was terrible. Of course the 350 was better and more desirable LOL. Also, the Ford 5.0 was designed to be a performer the way that the 350 was for Chevy, they are on the same playing field, the other two engines are not.

 

I've read enough period road tests to know the 350 is faster than the T5 TPI, but not by much. The 0-60 of my IROC with the 2.77s is right around 6.5 seconds...few 10ths faster with the 3.27s. I have an '89 Car Craft road test of my exact combo TA (TPI T5 with 3.08s), and the 0-60 was 6.8 seconds. The IROC would pull about a 14.6 in the 1/4, while the TA is like 15.1.

Not much difference, especially not enough to claim "one sucks" and "one is great." I don't particularly care what the average Joe Blow at a car show thinks, but I will say plenty of people have peeked their head in the TA and said "cool, a stick!" while the IROC has garnered plenty of "awww, its an automatic? That sucks!"

To each their own...I'm just happy to own both...and a peanut cammed one with a nice torque curve Still not sure what to do with that one yet, performance-wise. I find myself always wanting to mess with performance parts, but sometimes unhappy with the results....

 

But the 307 was never the best engine offered in a performance car. The 305 was saddled with the HO badge, CFI, and was the premier engine in the Z28 for several years. The 305 was a solid runner, but not exciting as a performance engine. The reputation it carries is just awful. The 307 is just as bad, but it doesn't catch as much negative attention. I'd rather have a 305 then a 307 or a 267, but that's not saying much.

The difference between a 305 and a 350 isn't that great, but that's not the point. The perception is that 305s are pukey engines, and with a few exceptions, that perception is accurate. The point is that to the masses, that perception is what matters most. The average enthusiast "in the know" isn't going to pay big bucks for a thirdgen anyway.

 

Good thing I did my 350 convert.

 

Amen. Mine does 0-60 in about 6.5 - 6.7. definately not at the sucks level.
and the auto makes it more fun. not just running thru the gears.. i let off and it doesnt upshift like an auto.. it BLAP..BLAP...BLAPs like a real muscle car cause it is.. I have several friends with muscle cars (70 Monty 400 SB)and one with a Nissa GTR who just traded it in for a Murciélago. Both have ridden in my car who say "no way is this slower than a 350". I have also driven the 350TPI in the day.. it doesnt take much to steer and tromp it. oh and I see lots of 5.7s on youtube who have to brake torque it to really lay some tred...not here...

When i had an auto TA back in the day...people would say...ewww.. its an auto... wtf..
true that

Drew needs to stop ragging what he doesnt know.. the reason they didnt sell as many 5.0 5-speeds is bacause people are lazy and want autos.. duh
note they sold a lot of 5.0 with auto... I notice drew said he drove a 305 5-speed. so have I... if its not a TPI.... its not that fast.

 

I used to have an '86 Olds 442 with the 307 and that car was a dog!!! It was rated at a max of 170hp and the torque was somewhere around 250. The car did have 3.73s, but with such a sluggish engine, they didn't help much. The 305 HO outperformed the 307 in so many ways at this point. Look at the hp/torque numbers of a the 305 compared to these 307 numbers. I should have bought the 88 Monte SS instead, but the Olds looked great and sounded great. That was about all it had going for it!!!

Also, can we stop bickering? Drew has experience with many of these cars and also the Ford lineup (???? Drew?). I agree that just because an item is rare, doesn't make it desirable. The only rare items that are usually desirable are performance related. Then rare = desirable. Just because a full size Chevy truck was available with the 4.3 and only say 10 people bought it, doesn't mean it will have value down the road. The only reason there are 10 is because nobody wanted them. This is just an example as I know there are more than 10 4.3 Silverados on the road, but that doesn't make them worth more because of rarity.

Let's not get into the topic of "Are thirdgens muscle cars?" The answer is no, they aren't!! Do a search as this has been discussed. It's not a sports car either as they are 2 seaters. They are performance cars.

And when it comes to what's desirable, the 350 cars will be the first, because they have the biggest engine. The next most desirable is the 305TPI/5 speed. Those sold to the people that wanted as much performance as possible, wanted the 5 speed and couldn't get it with the 350. The other 305/5 speeds were for those that wanted the cool car and didn't care about performance as much as gas mileage and cost.

 

I have 1 305 T5 and 2 350s, one of those is still bone stock. The 305 is bone stock too. Guess which one is faster, and more fun to drive. Yup, the 305. If you take someone along for a ride and don't tell them it's a 305 they won't notice.

 

1) I don't disagree with the "pukey engine" perception. For the most part, its highly accurate. LG4s are painful, and LO3s are better, but it still isn't saying much. The sad thing is, those were by far the most common engines people came across in V8 third gens...doing nothing for the reputation.

With that said, even the common TPI offerings aren't stellar. My 2.77 geared 86 peanut cam LB9 is pretty representative of most 305 TPIs...and while I personally feel its more entertaining than my LO3 T5 car, it still isn't thrilling by any stretch. When I took my wife out in it for the first time, after tuning it up, I nailed it from a dead stop, and by about 55 MPH she said to me "that's it?" Granted, she owns an '04 GTP Grand Prix, so she's used to quick cars. But, when my own wife is unimpressed? Not saying much...to me, an engine with the output of an AT 305 TPI should've been the LOWEST available in a V8 third gen...it would've made an acceptable base V8.

2) If you check eBay, people are paying good money for third gens. I've seen both a 25k mile LG4 85 TA and a 42k mile L98 88 IROC hit over $12,000 in the past 2 weeks. Do NOT ask me why the LG4 went so high...but it did.

People are paying real money for third gens, right now. Just not on this board

 

Wasn't your Olds an Olds 307 or was it a Chevy engine? Chevy did make a 307 from the late 60's well into the 70's.

So suddenly burnouts are a measure of performance? Then I guess my SHO was the fastest car on the planet, since it'd burn out for a block and a half easily.

I didn't say I've driven "a" 305 5-speed, there's an s there implying a plural. I see how it was easy to miss, when I quoted your message Firefox practically locked up highlighting the spelling errors. Anyway, I've probably driven more thirdgens then you think. For that matter I've probably forgotten more about these cars then you'll ever know. For a period of about 5 years my hobby was test driving every thirdgen that showed up on a car lot. I'd estimate that I've driven about 40 different L98s, and probably about 10 different 5spds. For example, before I bought my 91 Formula, I drove a 1989 Formula Lb9 5spd. Shortly after moving here I drove a 91 Z28 G92, LB9, 5-speed. Both cars would be considered prime examples. While both would spin the tires, and drove better then some L98 cars, neither was as impressive as the Formula I ended up buying. That Formula incidentally, would burn the tires for half a block until I tossed the Goodyears and got stickier tires.

They sold more autos (3 for every 1 5spd) because that's what people wanted. People didn't opt for the 305 to get the 5spd nearly as much as the LB9/5spd pushers would like to believe. People that wanted performance and had the money opted for the 350. The same as they do now. It's not ragging, it's honesty. Most people don't care that you could get a 305 almost as fast as the 350, it's still just a pukey 305 to them. Sorry.

 

When I was given the choice while ordering new, I chose the 5.0L T5 over the 5.7 auto. If I could have gotten the 5.7 with a stick, that's what I would have ordered - but of course that combo wasn't available.

I have driven many, many dozens of 3rd gens over the years, and honestly, only a very small handful felt very fast to me, that even includes most 5.7s. There were a couple 5.7s which were surprisingly fast though, much faster than the rest.

For my money though, a stick makes all the difference. I'm pretty sure that I won't buy another 3rd gen unless it's a stick - LG4, L69, L03 or LB9.

In fact, someone is parting a running '89 LB9/T5/3.45 gear IROC on this site right now. Pity. I would have bought that complete car if I had the chance, to fiddle with and fix up.

 

I want

 

Easier to swap 700R4 to T5, than 305 to 350. So get the 350/700R4 combo & swap in a T5. Really there are better choices than the T5, but my comment is based solely on what was available until 93.

 

So from what i understand Paddle mirrors aren't rare?

 

Some would consider them "rare" due to low volume, which is the definition of "rare", though no exact figure is known.

But as pointed out in this thread, something that is "rare" does not necessarily mean it's "valuable". As IrocZ pointed out above, there are probably some who might look for a paddle mirror GTA due to its uniqueness and being "rare", but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "valuable" because those people are probably more fewer and far between. They certainly add a uniqueness but people are more opt to pay and look for performance orientated options that are also rare.

Personally, I think you're a bit wrapped up in paddle mirrors being rare and when I see your "My GTA is more rarer than yours" tag on GTASourcepage that sort of does add to it!

If you like them, that's really all that matters. They add a uniqueness to the car and I don't really mind them as they remind me of Indy cars.

 

LOL wrote that because i thought they were super rare i don't really care if its valuable because i will never sell it, one place i read they are rare and then i read they aren't. I wish they could give us an exact number. Guess i should change that on the GTA source page.