Hey Guys!

As you can see, I'm new here. I am considering purchasing a 1986 Camaro Z/28. I am questioning the originality and condition of the engine on this car. He says that its a numbers matching 305. I realize that the rims have been changed (plan to put IROC rims on it) and the rear lights have been blacked out. Looking at some pictures of stock motors online, there seems to be some missing components on the one that I'm looking at.

The car:

1986 Camaro Z/28 (has t-tops)
-Needs windshield repaired
-New racing bucket seats
-New carpeting
-New paint (2 months ago)
-Racing seat belts
-Brakes bleed a little
-He is asking $2500


Pictures :









Please let me know what you think and what I should offer him! Thanks for any help in advance. I appreciate it.

On the passenger side shock tower near the positive cable there should be a black brace which is exclusive to Z28's and Iroc z's attached from the frame to the shock tower. That car is a sport coupe not a Z28!!! Check the RPO sticker in the console, and i bet it will not say Z28. Stay away from that car bro the owner is pushing it as a Z28. My 89 RS has wonder bar and every brace, suspension piece that came with a Iroc z, but i would never push it off as a Iroc or Z28! Offer him 800 to 1000 bro cause that car is needs A LOT of work and $$$!!!Look at real Z28 compartment verses that fake Z28's. That guy put the upper brace but forgot to put the lower one on the shock tower lol What a rookie!!!!

and also, the guy has **** for taste. those wheels are gross.

and to the OP, i wouldnt buy an IROC without TPI anyway unless i was planning to do an immediate engine swap.

Most likely that was an LG4 equipped 86, unlikely but possibly an L69. Check for H in the eight place of the VIN for the LG4 and G for the L69.

The RPO code label should be on the underside of the center console lid or attached to the lid for the hatch area compartment on the left side. If you're concerned about the originality of a camaro you may purchase, you're going to want one with the RPO sheet.

Although you can probably pick that one up for substantially less than the asking price, if you can afford it you should be able to find one in much better condition for under $4000. You didn't list where you're at though.

yes those wheels are gay

The paint looks like it has lots of orange peel to me, looks dull on the side. The fog lights look tacked on, not recessed like they're supposed to be. The engine compartment looks a mess, and the a/c has been removed.

NO WAY I would spend $2500 on that.

Is it smashed against the rear of that Impala?

Coolant jug also looks to be bone dry.

That's not a $2500 car.

It's a hack job, not a car.

Pass on it.

The car looks EXACTLY like something that would belong to someone who would leave their icicle Christmas lights on their house year-round.... aka LAZY.

Looking at the amount of rust on everything that they didn't rattle-can, and the overall look of the houses and whatnot, I'm guessing you're in Detroit, Buffalo, Cleveland, somewhere up that general way... I bet that thing is SCARY swiss-cheese underneath.

yes. dull, and alot of orange peel.

Thanks so much for the fast responses. I am going to check it out tomorrow in person and I'll be sure to check the VIN and the RPO. I'll get some more pictures, but considering what you guys said, this one is probably not something that I want.

If you guys were looking for third gen Camaros (or any project car for that matter), where would you look? I've been looking around Craigslist and various other places, as well as just looking on the streets. I am looking for something to make into a drag car possibly. I live near Chicago. If you guys could suggest a couple again, I'd really appreciate it. I'm willing to travel ~75 miles. My budget is around $2500-3000. Thanks again.

Dan

drag car??? as in engine swap, rear end swap, roll cage and gut the interior? because if that's the case, then it doesnt really matter if the car is a legitimate IROC-Z or not. if thats really what you want to do with it, then maybe this is the car for you. call the guy on his bull and offer him about a third less than what he's asking.

or by "drag car" do you mean something else?

I am very sorry. I should not have worded it like that. It was late last night and I couldn't think of the right term. It would not be a true drag racing car. I just want it to be able to preform well against my friends with stock Mustangs. I would keep the engine as is and just do some tune-ups and such.

Other than that, any suggestions as to where to look for project cars in general?

then in that case, again, this isnt the car for you - and keeping it stock isnt the way to go. 3rd Gens with stock LO3 type 305's do not do well against 5.0 Mustangs. by the way, what type (approximate model year) of Mustangs are we talking here?

sounds like you're looking to do three things:

stay stock
go fast
spend 2500 bucks or less

unfortunately, thats trying to put three pegs into two holes - meaning, you can only do two of those things at one time. the third thing is gonna negate the other two every time, no matter how you look at it.

Hate to break it to you, but even the best 350 TPI equipped IROC isn't going to perform well against newer Mustangs, I don't care how much you "tune it up". Thirdgens are slow by today's standards unless you're willing to put some serious money into them.

Sounds like you need to look at LT1/LS1 powered 4th gens if you're wanting a "go fast" car.

Thank you so much for the analogy. It really helped to point out that what I'm trying to do is nearly impossible. The thing that I care the least about is going fast. I'm going to start looking for decent deals. What I'd like to point out is that I will be putting money into this car, but am only willing to pay around $2500-3000 to start. This is all that I can afford at the moment. The cars that I was talking about racing were Mustangs from the late 80's/early 90's.

About the car that was originally posted:

-Crack goes all the way across the front windshield
-It has a 350 in it. Definitely not stock.
-Didn't get a chance to check the VIN/RPO (It started pouring rain on us)
-No A/C
-Fog lights were not original (LED w/ 8 different colors )
-Interior was not original
-Test drove proved that the steering would need work (Was really loose; Steering wheel RATTLED)
-Engine ran strong; almost too much for the car


In sum, not a car that I'd be interested in.

I cannot see the pix, but sounds like a hack job to me-glad you passed on it. I can tell you this. I had a 90 5.0 GT AOD. With just CAI, Pullys and Flowmaster cat back and transgo shift kit the car would smoke my TA that I have now. I did a catless H-pipes and 4.10 gears and it would not evern be a close race with my TA. My TA runs good, has low miles, fresh tune up and new fuel pump, has K&N and half a** exhasut for now and it is not fast. My 2012 Kia Koup SX 6-speed auto will beat it no problem in every aspect. If you want a F-body for cheap that goes fast look at the 93-97 LT1 cars. You can get them cheap and they are not bad at all for what they are. The 98-02 LS1 cars are faster and better looking IMO, but go for alot more than the LT1 cars around here.

So, what you're saying is that he should buy a 4th gen? And you're telling him this from a third gen only message forum? I'm not sure I understand your logic. Also, just because your TA is slow, doesn't mean all of them are. My neighbor has an 89 IROC-Z with the 350 in it, so you would assume that it's faster than my 87 with a 350, right? Wrong. My car has all of the G92 performance axle goodies, where his doesn't. I have the 3.27 gears and he has the 2.77. If you are looking for a 350 based Camaro, be sure to get the G92 performance axle. This could be the difference in a car deemed slow compared to one that seems quick.

Okay, well, I do not want a fourth gen because I hate the rounded look that they have. As I had mentioned before, I prefer looks over speed. Tonight I found another '86 Camaro with an LT-1 Stroker in it. If you guys don't mind, please help me with this decision as well.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...s_Trucks#v4-49

I am NOT buying this over ebay... I am talking to him over the phone and hoping to go see it Saturday.

Specs :

-Original Berlinetta (As far as I can see)
-LT-1 Stroker conversion
-New Carpet
-Dual Exhaust
-5 Speed
-Posi
-Etc.
-VIN : 1G1FP87S6GL178721 (If anyone bought the Unlimited 30d VIN check through one service or another, I would really appreciate someone running a check on this. If not, that's okay)

Let me know what you guys think of this one. Hopefully better comments than the one above

YIKES that one doesnt look any better. The car is still wet so the paint is probably faded, the cherry seat covers and air freshners really top it off. Quarter panel has damage and ugly wheels again LOL. keep looking till you find the one you want.....plus the "new carpet" is already dirty

-sigh- I'm trying to find one, but I plan to repaint any car that I get anyways. The rims I can deal with for now. I looked up prices for the right rear quarter and they seem to run around $200. I'm more concerned with the engine and such.

Can anyone see possible concerns on the engine?

They didn't put the ac back on, signs of a halfa** job

Yeah, I noticed that. Its something that I will ask about, and I'll be sure to ask why he didn't put it in. Thanks.

Dan

EDIT : Just reading up on the swap. Maybe this is why?

"To get the engine to fit in the car, when using F-Body accessories and A/C, the frame on the passenger side has to be pounded slightly, not very much, but some. It is just a small corner of it, on the passenger side, right next to the A/C compressor. The engine will not fit if this is not done. The A/C compressor is in the way, it hits the frame, so unless you don't want/need it (in which case, you would need a 1LE A/C Delete Pulley), the frame has to be bent."

"Among the list of things that need to be converted, is the A/C, for one, if you want it. As I said earlier, I chose to keep it the first time, but have since decided that it's not something that I have to have. After you figure out the lines and such, to match up with your existing canister, then you'll have to have the system overhauled to match up with the R134a, since you have the better, in my opinion, R12. Since doing the swap for the first time, I have decided that the A/C is more of a headache than it's worth, to me. Using the 1LE pulley which is an idler that sits in place of the A/C compressor and doesn't require you to move the motor mount or pound the frame."

Also, I don't think I mentioned this. I AM looking for a project car. I'm not afraid of putting some work into it.

No. The frame does not have to be bent for the AC to fit (there is k member clearance issues for the LS series engines-but this ain't one).

That is most likely a truck engine, judging by the oil fill and dipstick. Possibly an L31 but most likely an LO series. Do not trust anything the current owner says about it. It may not even be a 350.

I love the ubiquitous shot of the rear seats...

That is not a Berlinetta. The VIN’s fifth digit would be an “s”, the dash/middle console for 84-86 would be totally different, and it might also have gold trim along with Berlinetta tags on the body. I would recommend getting a copy of the Camaro White Book by Mike Antonick so that you can check these things yourself. Another source is on this site if you go back to the main page and look through the many resources available there.

I wouldn’t recommend getting anything with an LT-1, especially a conversion. They are good engines but were eclipsed by the LS-1 and there are fewer aftermarket parts for it. Besides, there is a distributor on the back of the picture, where LT-1’s have an opti-spark on the front down by the crankshaft.


Paint/bodywork is a major investment for a Thirdgen so with that in mind I would consider that to be one of the most important considerations. Also, if you are in the Chicago area rust would also be a major concern which makes things more complicated in a few ways.

• One is that rust buckets are more likely to be repainted to hide things. The quality of the finish most likely reflective of the work underneath and may hide structural issues.
• Two, many areas that rust out are hidden: this might include areas under ground effects, underneath the carpeting from boots/shoes soaked with salty snow, any areas like the rocker panels that have sandwiched metal that pulls salt water inside through capillary action. In these cases it can rust out where it’s nearly impossible, or to impossible to see. You can try looking down through the window slot at the top of the doors, the rear truck area where the spare tire is and a quick look underneath, and in the engine bay.
• IMO, if it looks salty at all I would walk away. I know of a few cars that looked great from the outside that ended up being scrapped because of the rust underneath.
  
• Other things as mentioned are the odd shots on the Ebay ad. You want to see the full front seat (wear item), shots along the body and all of the body panels. The engine bay pic already tells you a lot and saves you a trip, or at least tells you what to expect. Key into the important things you’re looking for and expect those in the pics provided.

The engine can be checked out by a trusted mechanic if you don’t know what to look for. Some easy things are: checking the fluids (engine oil, coolant, power steering, brake, tranny etc.), smoke at start up/under load, and for me how easy it starts when cold and after it’s warmed up. I tell them to make sure the car is cold when I arrive (if that is possible). Other things that tell me the engine might be well used are large aftermarket tachs along with STP stickers, wires all over the place along with other unfinished engine bay work. Inaccurate identification also shows a lack of knowledge or willingness to “exaggerate”. lol The condition of the overflow bottle alone tells me that the fluid there is probably not any good.

I’m sorry, but I don’t know of any other way than to say that you’re picking out some pretty trashy cars. I get the impression that you don’t know a whole lot and may also be getting hung up on what you do find. If you are, you’ll be subject to a lot of bullshitting/exploitation when you go to talk to the person etc. and that’s not where you want to be. I realize that you may be on a budget and this may be something new for you. I recommend taking a step back and instead ask/learn what to look out for, make a list of what’s important (so that you’re not distracted when checking it out in person), and then start searching from there. (Also, try to get the VIN beforehand and check that out before arriving. It’s less on your mind when you are there.) And ALWAYS transfer the title at the time of sale, and consider stating the true cost in case you end up in a dispute over the sale. Often the seller will suggest fibbing, but realize it benefits them more than you especially if they’re unloading on you. I think you did good research in finding that the LT-1 does need to have the frame notched, but there are a few other basics that might benefit you more on your current search. Make sure to check out a few cars and test drive them and then think about it afterwards. You may find that you’ll know more of what to look out for the next time you check one out. It’s part of the learning process IMO.
Good luck on your search.

Well, once again thanks for the words of advice. I am sort of new to Camaros, and have only done basic maintenance and body work in the past. I would like to be able to use this experience as one of learning. With that being said, those are the reasons I came to this board to ask questions.

Regarding the VIN : I posted that at nearly midnight and was wiped out. I was going to check the VIN numbers, but decided to do it the next day. The seller NEVER advertised to me that it was a Berlinetta; it was just a thought I had based on the front fender and it originally having a V6.

When I do go to visit these cars, I usually bring my uncle who was a mechanic for 20+ years. He is able to point out what I do not notice regarding issues with the engine or such.

Finding cars for me has been a little harder because: one, I am new at it, two, because of my area, and three, because of my budget.

I sincerely do appreciate your guy's help. I shall continue my search in hopes of finding the right car for me. Thank you for the book recommendation. I will probably get that and read it thoroughly to gain some more knowledge on this topic.

Thanks again,

-Dan

car looks like ***, looks hacked up, the rims are gay, may not be a real z28, that "new" paint looks like a 3 year old rattle caned it, some **** is missing under the hood, doesnt apear to be original motor to me, car is work maybe $800



just for the heck of it, i paid $750 for my iroc, RUNNING and all original only needing a water pump, and it had no rust, yea it was primer and interior needed work but stil.. u get my point, i also only paid $300 for my RUNNING and CLEAN sport coupe.... thats also all original

Are you speaking of the first car? I am done with that guy.... Theres a second link that I posted.

Been looking around some more and found two more possible candidates. I emailed both asking for more pics (undercarriage, engine, interior, and any rust spots) and for the VIN/RPO codes. Once again, I would like to ask for your help to weed out the bad ones. I will do some more research on both cars.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/cto/3117505725.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/pts/3117785540.html

Second car (second link) may not be any good, but I honestly don't know. I asked for more pics so that I could get a better look at it.

What are some questions that I should be asking these guys?

^^About the car on Ebay:

-Engine was pulled from a Corvette (350)
-Crack across dashboard
-Relatively little rust for the Chicago area (just some surface rust)
-Engine was put in around 8-9 years ago
-Dusty (Been sitting in a garage)
-Needs a hood with a cowl for the air filter to fit

Scorpner, was your major concern rust or the engine? Thanks again.

I guess that would depend more on your resources and skills. If you are more familiar with bodywork then I would be more concerned about the engine. The only problem though is the hidden rust inside of the rockers and at the strut towers that you can't see. I'm in the Twin Cities and if they put as much road salt down in the metro area as they do here I would try looking at cars farther out of town or ones that are claimed to be garaged or from down south. From what I've seen the cost of body repair can easily overshadow the cost of the car itself.

I would also want the body in decent shape if you are thinking of drag racing it. You might swap out the current engine for a 5.3 anyways. Figure in the cost of a rebuild if you end up with an automatic too.

The crack on the dash pad is probably a $100-$150 cost to replace unless you happen by one at a junkyard for cheap.

I like the idea that you're looking at cheaper/not perfect cars to learn on. I think that's a good plan but you're still not clear on how nice you want it to eventually be vs. how involved in drag racing you might end up. For instance, the rear end suspension and diff can't handle a whole lot and the cost of modifying that can be pretty substantial depending on what skills/resources you have to deal with that. But to buy an aftermarket 9" and suspension including SFCs, panhard bar, LCA's, torque arm and other stuff can probably run $3k-$4k retail. A lot of that depends on your goals and budget too.

A couple of things on the '88 is that it's still wet which can hide the condition of the paint, and it also looks like it has the less popular '86 third brake light on the rear hatch, and those are not IROC rims.

The '91 is another one for some good laughs: "Has a 305 thats bored to a 350"
Either way, if they list engine parts make sure to ask for receipts since there really isn't any way to confirm what's inside if it and that goes for it's condition etc. as well. Your uncle would be the most help in that area though.

the orange one is beautiful

@Scorpner - I am honestly way more comfortable with body work, but that is not my reason to be buying a project car. I am buying a project car because I would like to learn how to do engine work. I know the basics, but want to be able to do more than I can now. Regarding the drag car aspect, I may eventually turn it into a full-on drag car, but for now it just has to be able to get me from point A to point B. I will be using this to commute to school when its nice out (aka not raining/snowing/wet) and driving around town.

My priorities :

My first priority is just to have a reliable car that can get me around. I would prefer it to be "pretty" and pristine, but I can deal with a trashed interior or some dings/dents for the time being. I would like to have to do some body work and some engine work, but not an overwhelming amount that will take me a couple years to just get it running/driving (I work 30+hr weeks in the summer and 20ish hours when school is in). I am looking for something that is between $2500-3000, or less if possible. I would prefer it to be over 25 years old because in Illinois then licensing is cheaper/emissions testing is not required, but this is not necessary. It does not have to be a fast car to begin with, but I would consider an engine swap (Uncle has a buddy who is selling a 350 for decent price) when I have the money and opportunity. This won't be for a while though.

I hope that can maybe help you guide me to the right car? Let me know and as always, thanks for the extensive source of knowledge and help. If you need more info about what I am looking to do, just ask. I am greatly benefiting from this knowledge provided here.

Something like this is a better example of what you can get for the money if you keep looking... (of course it's WAY away from you)

http://pensacola.craigslist.org/cto/3034415934.html

Under hood looks original and not hacked up, seats are original, paint looks original, no rust, etc.. A good cleaning up and it would be a decent car. I wouldn't give $3500 for it, but it is "obo".

I agree with 80schild you should shoot for a original car that you know someone hasnt done a hackjob on. I wasn't even looking for my iroc-z and i found it and got a smokin deal on it. If you like looks and performance on a budget look for an original 85-90 camaro iroc-z with a tpi engine that may need paint or engine work....

IF this orange '88 Camaro Z/28 turns out to be solid, but just needing a new paint job and fuel pump, should it be one that I consider? I'll post the pics if he responds with some, and see what you guys think. I'm hoping that its all original, but I don't doubt that it could be another hack job.

The paint looks new but the color is awful, only if your up to droping the rear end out and taking out the tank to put in a new pump. If it were me i would pass on it. Theres a reason its only $1200. Seems like you have thirdgenitits Just keep looking for the "right" one. I would shoot for an iroc-z but thats just me...how far are you willing to drive? I know of a couple of cars (iroc's) on craigslist in IL...Hes a member on here too http://bn.craigslist.org/cto/3113226437.html

heres another to consider http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/3093308331.html

Hehehe thirdgenitis. Okay, well. I know that it needs work. I've been checking Craigslist for new posts about twice a day. I found another. Looks to be an IROC/Z, all original, and just in need of some TLC.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/cto/3080717923.html

Again, project car, but let me know what you think. I'll send him an email asking for more pictures.

EDIT : @DD9 I am willing to drive 75-100miles away and will trailer it if need be. I am more into the IROCs but I am open to either Z/28s or sports coupes too. I am loving the one in Pontiac. If you could tell me his member name here, I'd appreciate it. I will give him a call tomorrow and ask for some more pics. His car is roughly 102 miles away from me. If it is as good as it looks, I am highly interested. It looks a lot more original than most that I've been looking at, and this is key for me. Thanks very much.

If you could go and inspect that to make sure everything is good thats sounds like a deal..now thats a car I would consider. Since your in IL like me and that car has T-TOPS inspect the floors and if you can bring a jack and check out the underside. If not poke your head underneath and check. Check to see if someone has improperly jacked up the car on anything too like the fenders which can bend them. I had thirdgenitis too and still have it a little In the pics it looks like the passenger side fender is bent from improperly jacking it up....but a fender is easy to come by

Well, since it is 102 miles away, I'll give him a call first Get the VIN and such, ask a few questions about the car, ask him to send me some more pics, and possibly post them here to see what you guys think. I hope that it is what it is advertised as. Again, thanks. I should check out some of those more southern posts. I'll change my settings and look.

It should be a decent car if it is what he says it is. He says it needs a fan relay so you should hope it doesnt have a bunch of wires wired hot so it runs constantly..ask me how I know...lol

At the moment, I'm more interested in the one that you posted from Pontiac, IL. I'll make sure to call/email both guys to see what the cars are actually like. Hopefully, they are what they are advertised as, but I don't expect it haha

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/member.php?u=86108
This is the kid from Pontiac,IL

Regarding the 1986 IROC-Z in Pontiac, IL :

-He is the third owner
-Second owner got t-boned in an intersection. Car sat for three years. He bought it from the second owner and replaced the "driver-side fender", the hood, and the driver side door
-123,xxx Miles
-Title is clean
-Light surface rust on undercarriage. No soft spots/holes.
-It is #'s matching
-Dash is cracked
-Interior is in decent shape. Needs good cleaning.

Pics:









Once again, let me know what you think! Also, once again thanks. Hopefully this will prove to be better than the hack jobs that I picked out beforehand.

If its truly not rotten that sounds like a deal. Looks like a nice original car, I can't see anything bypassed on the engine. Go inspect it your self and see if you can make a deal...

In your opinion, what would you offer for something like this, taking into account he is asking $1500 and assuming that it isn't rotted?

Honestly $1500 sounds like a good price, if the paint is good that shouldnt be hard to match/blend. I gave that much for a iroc-z with rust and bad radiator

I'll try to set something up to go see it either this weekend or next weekend. It's tough to work it out with my uncle who works 72 hour weeks, so we shall see. I'll let you guys know what happens. -crosses fingers-

...probably a stupid question but I am going to ask it anyways. Is the air filter not original/not the correct type? Isn't it normally a circular one on top of the engine block for stock '86 iroc-z's? Is the car currently pulling air from a fan? Please help, and I know that I should know this.... But, I am learning...

It's a 4bbl intake on an LT1 engine. Look at the upper radiator hose, water pump and accessories.

On a 4bbl thirdgen, the air cleaner is black painted steel with snorkel going to the core support; dual on an L69.

Ahh, I've never seen that before. -thanks.

Based on what you keep posting, it looks like Illinois has a lot of junk! For the same money, you need to look further than the 100 miles that you listed. Did you see the yellow IROC-Z in Pensacola? Get out of Illinois and you WILL find cars in better condition for the same price. You also need to educate yourself on what you're looking for so you don't get "taken". The orange car above is not a Z28. It's another hack job that will cost you more than you need to spend. The Z28 in 1988 was an IROC-Z. The front grill should have fog lights for an IROC-Z. The rims are mismatched, also. They are the same design, but the Z28 had black around the lug nuts and the RS and Sport Coupe had silver. This car has both. If it's an 88 Sport Coupe, it has the incorrect taillights. If it is an IROC-Z, with the base rims available for an 88, then the front end was replaced. Either way, it still has an 86 rear hatch! There are no louvers on the hood, $$, and it's missing side molding pieces, $$, may need engine work, $$, will need suspension work, $$, etc, $$.

If you want a car that you can enjoy today and work on, then spend more money up front, get a cleaner car that requires less, and fix it as you go. If you can afford a couple hundred a month in repairs, then you can afford a couple hundred a month in a payment to get you a better car!

I did realize that it was a hack job and I have not pursued that deal any longer (Orange 1988). What I'm considering now is the 1986 Camaro IROC-Z in Pontiac.... What the above messages said confused me. Is it possible for an '86 to have that kind of air intake? Or is it an LT-1 conversion? If this type of air intake came with the 4bbl carb, then it isn't a TPI like he advertised...

http://bn.craigslist.org/cto/3113226437.html

That is the car I am speaking of^ and 3 other pics are posted above...