82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Took it out on jackstands! You guys are troopers. I haven't pulled a tranny like that in a long time.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I'm confident that T5 is great. It is in very good condition inside with very little wear on the fork shoes and synchro rings, and very little debris on the magnet as well. Once I get the speedo gear figured out and get the trans reassembled, I'll double check the preload, replace the front seal and we'll be all set.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I actually pulled the trans by myself. I can get an automatic out in about 2hrs. This one took me 3 because the engine is shifted slightly on the mounts so I couldn't get a socket on the top driver side bellhousing bolt because the firewall was in the way. So I had to pull the bolt out from the top in the engine bay with a ratchet wrench, no its not fun that way.....

A transmission jack makes the rest pretty simple, especially a 700R4 with a big flat bottom pan.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Engine shifted on it's mounts?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

You guys really got me thinking of doing this to my car. When you are done can you post up a parts list so I know what I am up against?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

sounds scary? Every one of these cars is a little different, and the rubber clamshell motor mounts can move and shift some. Normally I can use a socket, 3/8 drive swivel and a 24" extension to get all the bellhousing bolts out. On your car I didnt have enough room to get the top driver side bolt out because the swivel would hit the firewall before I was straight on the socket. I've never had that happen before on one of these cars. It's nothing I'd worry about, just a slight difference on your car vs others.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The biggest beneficiary of my Crossfire being at Jeremy's has been my yellow '85. Without the '83 around, I've been able to address alot of odds and ends on the '85 I've been meaning to get to.

Alphius

iTrader: (6)

Was that behind and above where the heater controls go? It looks a lot like the Check Engine Light interface box for the CCC cars like my '84 L69 Z28. The reason it exists is so the CEL will come on if the ECU is not working; the light is on by default thanks to that box and the ECU has to supply a ground to the box in order to turn the CEL off while running normally. This is of course the opposite of later cars where the ECU grounds the CEL to turn it on.

I have no idea if this is accurate for a CrossFire car, but it sounds reasonable. Haha.

I am watching this swap as well, there's parts from my car on it!

Jason E

Oh, you mean my next purchase? Gee, thanks...I really appreciate that. Someday when you stop being selfish and hoarding all these third gen Camaros, I will be waiting with open arms to take care of that IROC

chazman

iTrader: (4)

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I think that's exactly where it's located. Yes, the clutch slave is off of your car.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Jason, we need to work out a package deal with Charlie, because I want this Crossfire car. Obviously the 2 thirdgens I have aren't enough if I have enough time to work on someone elses! I want to build an engine for this car so bad I can taste it!

In all seriousness, I think I'll be ready for thirdgen #3 in a few years once the wife goes back to work and the daughter is in school. At that point it will be a struggle to decide between a CFI TA or Z28.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Here are my T5 innards:















EDIT: Disregard the red markings, I was trying to show Jeremy something.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Charlie doesn't seem to believe me that this trans looks pretty good inside . To his credit it did seem like this trans could have had a questionable past and he got it for stupid cheap. So anyone that kows T5s come in and tell him what you see.

When I get the speedo gears swapped over, I'll put the lid and tail housing back on. Then I'll pull the input retainer and check to make sure the preload is shimmed properly. At that point I'll look at the input bearing. From looking at the rear mainshaft bearing and all the other parts this trans is in very good condition by my estimation. I think Charlie want's a 2nd opinion.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I believe you!

8t2 z-chev

The "strange brown box" is the "E-cell"-a timer module that is supposed to light the CEL after something like 25,000 miles to indicate the O2 sensor needs serviced-never have had this indication with my '82 crossfire,so maybe the E-cell was a "one shot"timer.It was years before i found out the purpose of this "mystery device"LOL

subroc

iTrader: (2)

From what im seeing in the trans everything looks pretty good. The blockers/syncros still look fresh even. I see some are a tad worn but nothing to worry about. Id say its probably a fairly low mileage unit from the looks of it. Im mainly looking at the points on the blockers in the pictures and noting that they are still pretty pointy. When i had shifting issues with my supposedly 1000 mile TKO my buddy pulled it apart and the blockers were worn down to nubs. My new ones look pretty much like the ones in the picture above. Id run it and see.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

How much for modified crossfire 350 ?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Largely depends on how much power you want to make. PM me if you're serious and want more info.

For Charlie's purposes I figure 300-350hp would be perfect for the car and the driving he wants to do. There are Crossfire Corvette guys with 383s going deep in the 12s, probably making around 450hp or so.

For the mild build I'm referring to you'd use the Renegade intake with larger injectors and bored throttle bodies. RBob's EBL with the HAM board. Dyno Don's headers, and a roller cam 350 long block with a mild cam and set of heads with small 180ish cc intake ports but good flow at mid and lower valve lift, maybe a set of L98 Vette heads. With AL heads I'd run 10.5:1 compression. If this ever came to pass, Charlie might have to be careful with the T5, or upgrade it's internals to take the torque.

The intermediate budget version of that build could be a vette spec L98 long block with a ported stock crossfire setup with bored throttle bodies and bigger injectors. L98 Camaro manifolds and a dual cat Y pipe. With all GM parts, it could still look like something GM could have built. Even that setup could probably get darn close to 300hp, which is a riot in a thirdgen with a 'stick IMO.

I harassed Charlie at Thirdgen Fest yesterday about this and he's not taking the bait yet. I'll keep working on him! LOL

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

His much would that cost though for a 350 with the renegade manifold?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Moving forward with the swap...

Charlie complained of some minor oil leaks. He thought the pan rail or the rear main seal could be leaking. Dropping the pan on one of these is NOT fun, so I recommended the cheap way out by smearing silicone over the leaking area. Once I was able to see the leaks and how minor they were, I'm confident this fix will work. The rear seal is not actually leaking, it's the pan rail under the seal. In other words, it's not leaking in a way that will ever effect the clutch. The other leaks are the drain plug and the driver side valve cover, possibly the rear corner of the intake, but my money is on the valve cover.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Here is the cheap fix. I certainly do not recommend this for severe leaks, but Charlie's leaks were so minor I didnt feel they warranted dropping the pan. Worst case scenario, he still has the minor leak he had, he's not out any $$ for this fix.

I prepare the area by thoroughly cleaning with solvent, then apply the sealant.

After that it was time to install the flywheel and clutch. I had already installed the pilot bushing. Using an old input shaft is the ONLY way to really line up the clutch during assembly. The plastic alignment tools they include in clutch kits are crap. Aligned this way, the trans just slid right in.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

And here is where we are as of today. After assembling the trans and resetting the preload (found a bad shim behind the input shaft bearing's outer race, and the preload was a tad to lose)I got the trans installed. I'm waiting on a pigtail to wire up the backup lights, need to install the driveshaft, fill the trans with fluid and bleed the clutch and I'll be finished on the bottom.

I don't know why the torque arm mount is blue. Its an original T5 mount that I had around here, it appears it was factory painted that way because the paint is very thin and very weathered but it's really on there. It was like that when I removed it from the donor car. The pimpy red torque arm bushing is also something I had around here so the price was right. I had to swap on the torque arm from my 91 Trans Am because the '83 torque arm has the "lips" facing the other way. Obviously no one has the early mount in stock, so it was quicker to swap torque arms and move forward. I also removed and lubricated the speedo cable, fabricated a retaining clip for the speedo gear, and removed the starter to install the inspection cover. LOTs of nickel and dime assembly today.

Next up is install the shifter, the floor boot, and the console. Should have the car on the ground for a test drive later this week.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I think the blue paint is 5sp TQ arm mount and white paint is for autos.
Or it could just be a inspection mark that means it was installed properly

chazman

iTrader: (4)

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Jeremy, no pan gasket leaks from under the starter?

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

that side of the pan was dry. The drips coming off the pan were by the drain plug and near the rear of the pan. There were no drips or leaks evident over on the passenger side.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just heard from Jeremy. He took the car out for it's first test drive today. He said everything seems to be working superbly with the T5 swap. He also said the the CFI feels very much like a TPI now.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Car drives great. This trans is in excellent condition. It is quiet and shifts very nicely. Even driving with no console in the car the trans is almost completely silent. It upshifts and downshifts very nicely. The LU5 seems to like it so far too, not stalling or funny business. It doesn't mind being shifted early and lugging a bit if it needs to. I gotta say the LU5 is a lot more torquey than I expected it to be. It will pull up off a corner at half throttle very nicely. In other words, if you want to get moving again after navigating a turn, you don't have to feel like you're laying on the throttle just to get back up to speed. It's shameful the dis-service an automatic trans does to this engine. I've been gentle breaking in the new clutch, so I haven't got to watch the hood flaps, but the car is a pleasure to drive now. They really should have came this way...

You need to update your signature now Charlie...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I was trying to do a 700R4, but TGO's software doesn't have that function turned on.

EDIT: Holy cow it does have it!

Van Nuys born

Good to hear everythings working fine.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Drove the car again today, want to get ~25miles or so on it so I know there are no issues, leaks, etc. So far everything is great. I do have a few more observations about the LU5 however, and maybe this is where some Crossfire expert tuners can shed some light...

At part throttle the car feels like a peanut cammed LB9 car for the most part. It accelerates at part throttle well and moves the weight of the car well in 2nd 3rd and 4th gear. I decided to get on it a bit but still want to be gentle on the clutch and the car in general. On smooth good pavement I got the clutch all the way out and with the car rolling I quickly rolled in full throttle. (I still love the hood flaps) The car chirped the tires and took off but not what I expected out of the 3.76 1st gear in this trans. I gently shifted into 2nd at 4500rpm and went WOT again to 4500rpm and shifted into 3rd the same way and went WOT again. I backed out about 4krpm in 3rd.

What I observed is that the car pulls almost as hard in 2nd and 3rd gear as it does in 1st. It acts like a diesel that can't rev fast enough in low gear, but can pull nicely in a higher gear where the rpm comes up more slowly. I was dissapointed by the end of 1st gear(all I got was a tire chirp and the roar of the cooling fan), but was then pleasantly surprised in 2nd and 3rd.

The question is, do Crossfire Vettes with manual transmissions do this too? Is there a common tweak or adjustment I can do to this car to liven it up a bit? I assume the ECM controls timing much the way a TPI ECM does, should I put 1-2 more degrees of timing advance in it? Is the fan clutch bad or is it time to put an electric fan on the car? The car runs very well otherwise, so I'm fairly certain there isn't anything wrong, and I don't want to dig in realy deep when the only "problem" is that the car doesn't jump to life in 1st gear like I expected it to. Again though, I'm used to over 500ftlbs, maybe Charlie will be perfectly happy with where the car is currently at and my expectation is unrealistic.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Bump the timing up to 10 degrees BTDC and see what happens. A common issue is also the lack of fuel pressure on these cars. They need at least 12 PSI but they are usually much lower. A TPI pump will help that issue. When my fuel pump was on the way out I noticed the issue with not pulling too well off the line. I think at low RPMs you are experiencing a fuel starvation issue when the car is trying to get off the line quickly.
Charlie opened up the exhaust a bit so there is the chance that it is breathing a bit better and needs more fuel pressure anyway.
There is also a way to adjust the fuel pressure regulator for when you have enough fuel pressure from the pump. 14 PSI seems like a good start.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Thanks, thats exactly the advice I was looking for. We'll see what Charlie has to say. I keep waiting for him to barge back in here and tell me to stop futzing with his car. He knows I can't help myself! LOL

Van Nuys born

I found alot of power on my 89 with a new distributor ..... it was rusty inside from condensation. We were just going to replace the moduel as I lost spark one day. Ended up pulling the dist. out and it was a mess ..... it didn't even want to turn freely.

What a difference it made ..... It's like it woke the engine up.

When you think about it....a distributor is the perfect place for moisture to collect....and after 25 years or so it might be time to just replace them....or at least a good inspection.... mine was junk.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

It is tough to check fuel pressure on a TBI. On the Crossfires it is recommended to check between the throttle bodies. I bucked up and bought a permanently installed gauge. I found out the reason I had no pressure was due to a ruptured hose between the fuel pump and the strainer assembly. The hose was spongy and porous and also had a large hole. Unless Charlie changed the pump lately I bet if you check the fuel pressure it has less then 10. I was at 5.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

OK - so I just perused some of Charlie's old posts since he got the car. There was never a mention of him doing a fuel pump. He has had the car since 08. If the pump is original, which is unlikely, it definitely needs changing. Since I bought the car in 1989 I have gone though 2 so far, but as I stated, the last one was due to the degradation of the fuel line in the tank, which I think happened because of the ethanol in the gas today. It is definitely something worth checking.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

http://www.crossfireinjection.net/catalog.htm

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I've already bumped the timing up a few degrees. I think I advanced it to around 12 BTDC, if I remember correctly. Basically I advanced it until it pinged and backed off a couple of degrees. I haven't touched the fuel pump or rest of the ignition though. The fuel pump may actually be original.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Jeremy, just curious, did you put the steel DS back in or the aluminum one?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Charlie - this is the pump I removed from my car a few weeks ago. You can see the condition of the hose is pretty bad, besides the obvious hole in it. This was an AC Delco replacement pump from around 1991. It was considered a good pump and that hose came with the replacement pump. The rubber used in fuel systems was not designed for today's fuels that have ethanol in them that is highly corrosive to them. I think you should change the pump just as a precaution not to get stuck with the car somewhere. Better performance would just be a side benefit. Go for a TPI pump. I know most TBI guys recommend the AC Delco EP241, but do a search on that pump. It is made in China now and its performance is hit or miss. I used a Bosch, although I can't tell you how it performs because I am still finishing up some details on the car(hopefully running in a few days). But a search of the Bosch pumps shows many happy customers. Walbros are overkill for a Crossfire. It will work, but is totally unnecessary.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I just texted Jeremy, as soon as he gets back from Power Tour, we should at least check fuel pressure.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Back from the Power Tour now, got 27MPG with the GTA and the 383 loves the mountains.

Anyway, to you crossfire gurus, what is the best way to check fuel pressure on these cars? I don't have a way to measure it between the TBs. Do I need to try to tie in before the first throttle body? I may have to assemble a conglomeration of fittings to do this...

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I needed to assemble a conglomeration of fittings. I couldn't go between the 2 throttle bodies so I checked pressure at the fuel filter. I now have a gauge that replaces the center fuel line between the 2 throttle bodies. I can check later to see what I put together. It was a mess of fittings.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Some fuel pressure info here. Especially from Tom 400 CFI and 83 Crossfire TA.


https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ey-make-3.html

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Yep - I inserted a t. But I don't remember how I connected it to the fuel pressure gauge.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I put the steel unit back in.

I'll be washing the GTA and checking your fuel pressure tonight. Diagnosis of the blower fan starts tomorrow night.

If this thing needs a fuel pump (it sounds like it might need one regardless of the fuel pressure reading) how do you want to handle that?

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

I took a look at my set up I used to get a fuel pressure.
I originally purchased this gauge to try to get a reading.

I could not fit that adapter piece in anywhere. So I removed the rubber hose at the T, and went to Home Depot and bought some fittings and a t and I was able to connect it to the car at the fuel filter with a t and some rubber hose.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I Tee'd in the rubber line before the filter and got 10psi there no matter what I did to the engine. I'll be replacing the fuel filter tonight and we're going to see how it does.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

10 PSI is actually within specs. I am going for 14-15 PSI on mine.
What kind of pump are you installing?