midge54

So talking with the owner of the trans am I bought, he told me that the car was once a police car and still has many of the set up still in the car. There are holes drilled in the roof that I light bar would fit in. How would I be able to confirm this though, it's a 1987

MrPackstin

iTrader: (9)

Pretty sure B4C is the RPO. Look in the console on the SPID sheet. Better yet post a pic of it, so we can look at it. Never heard of a Firebird B4c, but that does not mean they don't exist.

midge54

ill post pics of the holes in my roof, plus the spid and a red switch built into dash

midge54

I thought that the B4C code was for camaros starting in the early 90's. Previous owner said that the original owners told him it was a police interceptor package because the rear end was changed out to posi, had a modded engine in it, and it said police interceptor some where on the car but i havent had a huge chance to go over the car

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

There wasn't an official Interceptor package for the Firebirds as far as I've read in nearly 10 years of browsing on Thirdgen.

Thats not to say that a police department couldn't have performed the transformation on their own since not much was really changed.

But there are no Official B4C birds as far as I've ever read.

But always loved this ad.

https://www.thirdgen.org/tech/images...marePoster.jpg

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What difference would it make if it was? That is, what would you do differently with the car according to whether it is or not?

GM has NEVER called a car "police interceptor" AFAIK. That's a badge that came on Frod Crown Vics. Not to say that some yahoo didn't gank one at the boneyard and stick on Lord only knows what; only, no such thing came from GM.

Anybody can "mod" a motor and stick a posi rear in a car. Doesn't have any connection to "police". A 87 TA should have had a 9-bolt in it regardless, which are about as close to 100% of them being posi, as you can get. I.e. EVERY 87 TA is similarly equipped.

I hope you didn't pay extra for any of this ... story.

If in fact the car has been a police car, it's been RODE REAL HARD and PUT UP WET.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

A True B4C camaro that had been involved in real police work with a verifiable history might someday be worth something.

But a converted TransAm, or regular Camaro? Worth the same or less than a non B4C higher optioned Camaro.

I've always had a soft spot for B4C Camaro's in police trim.

And whether they were officially called Police Interceptor's or not, thats EXACTLY what they were and I'll continue to refer to them as Interceptors. Where do you put the perp once you catch him? You don't, the B4C package solely existed to allow for a high performance cruiser capable of running down hotter cars, then they call in a cruiser to finish the arrest.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

TV fantasy land. Too much "Knight Rider".

The B4C package existed so the cars could sit by the side of the road and not stick out like a sore thumb, and could write more tickets that way. (and of course, could make a run to the donut shop quicker)

midge54

no i didnt pay extra for the car, i only paid 900 for the car and mainly bought it cause i wanted another trans am and this one only has 61000 miles

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

While the Stealth aspect helped, thats not why the B4C existed. It came about because the standard cruiser of the time simply couldn't keep up with the runners. If all they needed was Stealth then an unmarked cruiser is all they would have required.

The odds of the B4C being in range to intercept a speeding car is a little much as far as logistics goes. The best they could do would be to locate the car where they suspect the street racers to be of the times, or have them patrol the highways.

Hence, by their very definition they are an interceptor.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You're in fantasy land. Once you grow up a bit, you'll realize, Knight Rider is only a TV show.

Linson

I have seen a 3rd Gen Trans Am police car back in the early nineties. it was a D.A.R.E car (dare to keep kids off drugs car.) probably a seized vehicle. used primarily for parades and public relations events, no doubt. probably not modified for performance in any way. maybe this car was something like that.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I'm not comparing a B4C to Knight Rider, and I have no idea what you are hinting at with your Wink. Rather than a nudge and a wink why don't you explain what you really mean.

B4C's fulfilled a simple job. Chase the cars that cruisers couldn't. That was their purpose. I'm not claiming a B4C the end all and be all of performance.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I have seen many of the D.A.R.E cars. Have a few pics of them. And I agree, they were likely never used in any enforcement. Car Shows, maybe Beat the Heat type drag nights, Parades and the like.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

What I mean is:

Your entire fantasy of how police cars work and are used is based on watching too much Knight Rider and similar TV shows and movies, with a healthy does of playing video games; and has no bearing on reality. Also, your fantasy that because you like the word "interceptor" :bowdown: :allhail: :notworthy: that it then applies to all cars that you also like whether or not their manufacturer ever BADGED cars with it the way Frod did, is equally a product of too much movies, TV, and video games. If a GM car has something stuck to it with that word on it, then it's only there because someone else put it there, and no matter how much you like the word, it is FOREIGN to that car.

And yeah, police depts use cars like these as "D.A.R.E." show cars to impress the children at schools; our township here where I live has a mid 90s Mustang they use like that. Hardly any kind of "pursuit" or "interceptor" duty.

But none of that really has very much to do with the OP's line of questioning; so rather than argue with somebody butting in about children's daydreams, I'll concentrate on the matter at hand.

$900 isn't too bad of a price; without seeing the car I couldn't begin to guess whether it's too much, a screaming deal, or about right. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and go with #3. However all that may be, if in fact it ever saw any form of police service, it probably lived a hard life with poor maintenance (much like the Cheep my wife bought a few weeks ago from a local police dept, used as a "covert car", that has every mechanical problem and hack-job "repair" that you can imagine one of those having) and is likely to need extensive refurbishment before being a reliable driver. Apart from that, there's nothing about "police" that makes the car any better, more desirable, more "valuable", or anything like that; nothing beyond a mere curiosity, that the car itself has now forgotten about. Enjoy it since it's what you wanted. I'd recommend checking it over thoroughly for wear and tear; above all replace all the fluids ASAP, including transmission, rear end, etc., and greasing every fitting you can find. Generally catch up on the "deferred maintenance".

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

It's not TV fantasy. It's why they we requested and built. The whole purpose is for enforcement and chase work. Since they don't have 4 doors they are useless for hauling someone in after an arrest.

You can believe what you want but maybe you should research B4C history before saying I'm living in a fantasy world. B4Cs were built to meet a need for a high performance patrol car.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Sofa, not sure what you are arguing here, the b4c certainly were employed to be "interceptors" . I have no idea if anyone actually called them that. I have a feeling that no one actually expected them to do much chasing down of bad guys, it was prob more of an image thing. Not the same as the silly DARE cars. I think the police thought that it might intimidate people and give them another reason to Not run, or they just wanted a more badass image. Also a win for gm as it makes them seem more badass too and give the impression third gens were faster than the really are. More about image than speed, but they were out there writing speeding tickets, I saw them. And my 16 year old brain definitely thought they were "fast" and "badass".

okfoz

I would please ask that we all respect each other, this is not like some life or death situation where whether or not it is called a police interceptor will cause the crime of the century.

The Camaro B4C was typically purchased as a police vehicle, or a special purpose vehicle. The term interceptor would imply that they were going to intercept something. Unlike the Chevy Caprice, the Ford could not keep up, so instead of making the car faster to meet the needs of the police, they simply put a sticker on it to "seem Faster"

B4C cars could have been purchased by individuals, it happened a one time that I know of for sure when the cars were new, but that is uncommon, but still possible. Likewise it would be possible to purchase a Ford "Interceptor" if you knew the correct channels.

It really does not matter in the end, so please just respect each other.

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I also only know of a B4C RPO for the Camaro, and I'm not too familiar with Firebirds. I do think that midge54 has provided enough information for people to make some kind of an educated guess as to it's possibility though. By that I mean comparing the Camaro B4C to this vehicle, and when I do that it doesn't look like one. From what I recall they typically had the police light at the front window, so there should be holes there for that.

More importantly, from the Camaro White Book, it looks like the option started in 1991 with the B4C RPO code in the dash console. It included dual cat converters, 16” wheels, 4-wheel disk, engine oil cooler, 145mph speedometer, and “special suspension.” It should have also included the radio delete panel. If it were used it may have holes in the dash/middle console area for the electronics (radio equipment etc.). I imagine it would have the larger swaybars too 34mm/36mm. IMO, if it had T-Tops I doubt it was used for police work.

I have read of one B4C that was used by a detective which may have been abused less. I wouldn't mind picking up an old cruiser though.

OrangeBird

iTrader: (1)

.

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

Show or not. I think it looks pretty cool.

Georgia State Patrol

BlackJet

Midge,
Maybe this will help:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/other/...rs/index.shtml
It's where the go-fast thing got started for police, and some of the models and improvements that led up to more current cars.
Interceptor a the term Ford used for it's police packaged cars, and is marked that way on the car, as well as the window sticker, owners manual, and related paperwork.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

Nice i think the Massachusetts state police still has a few still in service for D.A.R.E. or special charity events

excessiveego

I live in a small town where they had a twin turbo 5-speed manual dodge stealth as the DARE car and when one of the crown vics was totaled in a chase they didnt have the money to replace it at the time so they swapped the lights, radio, and radar from the crown vic into the stealth, was still the DARE car but was used as a fully functional cruiser.

in short, DARE car capable of interceptor duty...

Barlow8869

iTrader: (1)

my best friends father was a cop for many years, and at times , in 3 towns at once. what he told me about the ford Interceptor (when i was looking for a motor for a mustang) was it was not any faster, but it handled better at higher speeds than a regular crown vic

BlackJet

Wow, some have a lot to say on this topic.
These cars, predominately the Camaro, were ordered by police departments for use in regular service as speed deterrents, and worked quite well. As a side benefit they were very popular with the younger crowd and used a a community policing tool. A tool to strike a chord with with youths and making police approachable and therefore hopefully making the police officers who drove them "friends". Which leads to conversations about stay away from drugs and finish school. This, led to all kinds of "sport type cars" purchased, or some confiscated, to being outfitted and painted and placed into DARE service. The '91 and '92 Camaro's were very popular for purchase as Chevrolet was nearly giving them to police departments (reduced price). Yes, a lot of 350 TPI automatics, and no, they didn't need to go any faster than stock because they were already faster than most of the cars on the road at that time. Also, and more importantly, they would stop better than most other cars, and of course handle better than most. And they would do so all day (or night) long. I say that that way because daytime service was more popular as law enforcement agencies wanted these cars "seen". But there were negatives.
Outfitting a police car of that era required a lot of equipment in it's limited service. Radio equipment,mics, radar units, shotgun racks, first aid equipment took up a lot of space, and of course the car had to be used as a primary car, with no ability to really transport anyone. But the real limits of those cars were the officers ability to drive them, and get in and out, all day long wearing 25 lbs of gunbelt out of such limited space.
The lightbars were severely limited as well. The magnetic type, which looked good on the car, typically wouldn't stay on the car much past 70 with the magnet, so we had to devise another plan, which we did.
As a standard "patrol car" they were limited in visibility from inside the car looking out. That combined with limited space and difficulty in getting in and out made them a special purpose car.
In summary, the cars worked very well when you used them in the way they were designed.

okfoz

One thing that I think Police have come to realize... The speed of the car may be important to a point. With that said, there is very little that will outrun a radio.

Veaceonee

iTrader: (1)

or a Helicopter

Mad Myche

Well.... the radio may be faster than my car but the radio cannot

1. Pump slugs into a perp
2. Pump an IV into a patient
3. Pump water onto a fire

All of which I respond to do with my Camaro

BlackJet

Or spike strips, current brake pads and maintenance, knowledge of area and crossroads and experience in driving in such conditions, and the list goes on....
But back to the original post, dare I..
900 dollars for a car with 61,000? I think so.
I have no trouble accepting some police department used this car as some type of police car regardless of some RPO code. It has all the desirable attributes of any type of police service vehicle, and if used correctly, quite effective. They're quick.
As far as the Firebird/ Camaro/ B4C dilemma, Camaro's were (if purchased) cheaper. And I don't mean that as a dig, plain and simple, less money to buy, and that's what budget bean counters look at. I don't know that Pontiac did, or did not, offer a B4C package of some type, but I do know that if if you ordered my car it would have worked just fine.
I think it would be desirable to own a decent condition/ F body / police service vehicle of any type, it goes to it's history.
And yes they were fast, and yes, most people stopped,.. real fast.
We can talk about the Crown Vic later...

83Z28/L69

I've seen alot of PD's convert drug seized car into patrol cars. Your T/A might be one of those.

xcalibur

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/other/...rs/index.shtml

Thanks for posting this link, BlackJet.
It finally made this tread worth reading/preserving.
You really made my day.

okfoz

GM never offered the Trans Am as a B4C option, the RPO came into existence in 1991, and there are no B4C Firebirds (or Trans Ams or GTAs or Formulas).

It is completely possible for a PD to purchase just about any car they want for patrol or special service, it does not need to be a fleet vehicle for that matter. the B4C was simply a way to simplify the ordering process. The B4C was a way to set aside certain options that would be desirable or typical for PD use, so they created the RPO for it. I think here in Flint at one time they actually used Buicks for PD use, they did not get a special RPO for those cars, they just ordered the options they wanted, and went with it. I think the Sheriff on the original Cars movie was a Buick...

What I am getting at is theoretically a PD could order a Trans Am with particular options and use it... If it met the needs of that PD then there is no reason why they couldn't order it.

John

excessiveego

but to think it is more desirable than any other similarly optioned firebird T/A simply because it was a PD that ordered it that way is foolish, i think that what some other posters here are trying to get at...

where on a camaro everyone knows that the BC4 package includes these upgrades, which included 1LE parts. The car is desirable from a collector stand point due to the uncommon RPO code, and from the performance standpoint due to the options associated with it.

83Z28/L69

Sheriff was a 49-50 Merc. LOL. Dunwoody,GA used 1994-96 Impala SS's

midge54

I actually could care less about it being a pd car. Im going to fix the holes drilled into the roof where the light bar was bolted and return it to factory appearance

okfoz

True to a point. It should be understood that the 1991 B4C originally did not include the 1LE brakes, it appears that this was a mid year change (probably around August 1990). The White Book shows that there was 592 B4C cars and only 478 1LE cars. Then there was the number of cars that were 1LE without the B4C, and the Players cars (that had 1LE brakes)

1992, all the B4C cars did get the 1LE brakes AFAIK. Indeed B4C =/= 1LE

There have been several B4C Camaros found without the 1Le Brakes...

John

hillntx

The last of the V8 Interceptors...


Since people keep throwing around Interceptor...

midge54

so I started to strip the trans am down to scrap it and in doing so I found that the tail lights and front marker lights still have strobe lights in them and the siren was still hooked up in the bumper, so this is a legit police car, unfortunetly the body is no good and ive decided to scrap the car

okfoz

Might be fun to take the parts off and clone it for car shows... If you like that kind of thing.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Actually it is TV fantasy.

I'm a Police Officer.

The unmarked cars are purchased for specific purposes yes, and those are to blend in. We use camaros, mustangs, and even ford focus for traffic enforcement. Sometimes the detectives will use them for drug buys and things like that, since a solid white blue or black crown victoria with plain black rims seems to give off red flags to the drug dealers.

They are not "chase vehicles", if one even get's involved with "chasing" a vehicle it's only until a fully marked line car gets involved, then the unmarked fancy camaro or mustang or whatever backs off.

But that's assuming we actually chase someone, which frankly doesn't normally happen. If the guy just killed a bus load of school children it's radio ahead, spike strips, and road blocks.

As far as the value. I assure you, you don't want to own anything after my agency is done with it. Even our newish cars the steering wheels point at 3 or 4 oclock when driving straightish down the road, the transmissions slip, everyone and their grandmother has puked, pooped, or peed in the back.


-- Joe

Brock Lee

And those items don't mean it is a factory police car. I once converted a confiscated GTO for a police department. Professionally installed siren, lights all over, etc. That car is a "legit" police car. But it is not a factory police car.

midge54

I understand it was not factory, but pretty cool it was converted over, I plan to transfer them over to my good body and figure out how to get siren working, all the equipment is whelen(spelling)

Lakerman62

iTrader: (3)

Mad Max, 1 of my all time fav movies, it was way too coll when it first came out

excessiveego

Make sure it is legal to do so first. In my state it is illegal to have strobes in your lights without a special permit

okfoz

They are funny that way. Some states do not care, other states, it is not to be installed, other states as long as you do not turn them on... So yes make sure, do not just call the DMV they will not know, you might have to go through the laws and find it for yourself... The Police might not appreciate it either...

I think in MI as long as they are not turned on, but I could be wrong.

John

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

Some make exceptions for show or collector cars. Ie. The really old cop cars with the old style light/s on top.
Also, if it came with them or were prev. owned by a police department they might let that slide too since they released it that way.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Used in a parade or car show, but otherwise covered when on a public way.

Even amber lights need a permit in most jurisdictions.

Here is the law in Texas, where he lives:

§ 547.305. RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF LIGHTS.
(a) A motor vehicle lamp or illuminating device, other than a headlamp, spotlamp, auxiliary lamp, turn signal lamp, or emergency vehicle or school bus warning lamp, that projects a beam with an intensity brighter than 300 candlepower shall be directed so that no part of the high-intensity portion of the beam strikes the roadway at a distance of more than 75 feet from the vehicle.
(b) Except as expressly authorized by law, a person may not operate or move equipment or a vehicle, other than a police vehicle, with a lamp or device that displays a red light visible from directly in front of the center of the equipment or vehicle.
(c) A person may not operate a motor vehicle equipped with a red, white, or blue beacon, flashing, or alternating light unless the equipment is:
(1) used as specifically authorized by this chapter; or
(2) a running lamp, headlamp, taillamp, backup lamp, or turn signal lamp that is used as authorized by law.
(d) A vehicle may be equipped with alternately flashing lighting equipment described by Section 547.701 or 547.702 only if the vehicle is:
(1) a school bus;
(2) an authorized emergency vehicle;
(3) a church bus that has the words "church bus" printed on the front and rear of the bus so as to be clearly discernable to other vehicle operators;
(4) a tow truck while under the direction of a law enforcement officer at the scene of an accident or while hooking up to a disabled vehicle on a roadway; or
(5) a tow truck with a mounted light bar which has turn signals and stop lamps in addition to those required by Sections 547.322, 547.323, and 547.324, Transportation Code.

The other vehicle lighting requirements here in Texas can be found in sections 547.321 - .335. In addition to individual state standards, the federal requirements can be found here in 49 C.F.R. 571.108.



-- Joe

excessiveego

so, from the sound of it, his intentions would be illegal

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That would be my interpretation.

I suspect such things are enforced at an officers discretion. For example, in the jurisdiction I work you need a permit for any flashing, rotating, or alternating lights. However plow trucks and landscapers often have amber light bars and don't get permits (because the process of getting a permit is nearly impossible to achieve).

We don't cite them because their use is in the best interest of public safety. If they were to abuse the lights (use them while driving down a public way, while not plowing or securing a hazardous condition) we would cite them.

-- Joe