From a 3rd gen perspective how much coverage do "we" get in this book ... I know from a manufacturing process much don't changed over the years however before I order a copy I would like to know how many chapters / pages do cover the 1982 - 1987 years.

http://www.norwoodassemblyplant.com/Order.html

So anyone that got a copy and read it would be great if you could share what I can expect if I do buy a copy.

 

Reach out to CPC Norwood. He's the author!!

 

I asked Phil (CPC Norwood) https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/member.php?u=142665 this question last year and he said about 45 pages were dedicated to the ThirdGen with about 50 production related photographs.

 

Last year we were invited to attend the Norwood reunion with our all original Norwood built 82WS7 with 24K actual miles on her. The car is so original that it still has the OE Goodyear Eagle GT's on it. She still has symbols and initials under the hood placed there from the workers on the assembly line. I was told that thirdgens have not well represented at the reunion, and the fellow acted very disappointed when I had to respectfully decline the invite. My dad had suffered a serious stroke and was on his death bed. We could not get away. A lack of turnout for Norwood events could make it difficult for authors to represent thirdgens in Norwood history books.

 

This is the exactly the info I was after.

So anyone actually own a copy of the book for a brief comment after reading those 45 pages and looking at the 50 (3rd gen) production related photos?

 

Thanks but I rather have someone that bought the book share their view.

 

I just bought a copy 2 minutes ago from the website. If no one else answers your questions, when the book arrives, I will try to help you. There are three reviews of the book on Amazon.com.

 

Really appreciate that!

 

please post a book review when you get it. sounds interesting!

 

I just got the book yesterday, kind of glazed over it really quick.

One thing about the book is there is a little about the actual cars themselves. It is more of the story of the history of the plant... There was one production figure I found so far, it was the total number of Norwood Cars in 1982 was 108,138, this is consistent with other information I have

Really the book highlights the UAW and how they were working with management, it talks about strikes, and some other things that really deals with the people.

There are some neat layouts of the plant, several production pictures (I think all B&W for 3rd gens) and other information that can be gleamed from the book. There is quite the scathing of the LU5 (Cross Fire) engine with its problems, and I learned why they dropped the engine, and why the L69 replaced it in 1984 until the LB9... I did not know that Reagan was smart enough to pull in the reins of the EPA for example instead of letting them go crazy, which then allowed the L69...

I did not read it cover to cover, only the 3rd gen stuff, and that is more or less what I gathered in 20 min or so...

If you are a real nut, then yeah, its worth it. For the majority of owners, then it might be an interesting... I got bogged down into the UAW stuff personally.

 

Thanks for sharing.

I would be interested in the actual manufacturing process (1982-1987), all the steps from the body in white to final inspection ... is that described in there?

Any union politics etc. I can do without lol

 

A little, I mean little... It is more like the plight of the UAW and how they dealt with GM, kept the plant open, they got new tooling, the Turbo Bell was the most advanced painting in the world at the time, etc...

 

I have extensive photographic and video archives for the third generation production era at Norwood. Given the fact that the book was a complete history of the plant dating from 1923 through 1987 the portion of the book dealing with third generation production was as large as I could make it without the book getting out of balance.

There is potential for future additional information releases specifically relating to third Gen production I am evaluating the feasibility at this time.

For now Someone needs to locate the 3 millionth car... I released the build sheet in the book for the car.

 

In light of this post above I thought it wise to be sure the record was accurate and clear. In the current book Echoes of Norwood here is a breakdown of the 3rd gen photographic content by page:

261 First 1982 Z-28 produced.
262 LU-5 engine
263 Camaro Bodies transfer to TOWVEYOR
264 ASEA Body Dimensional Checking Robot
265 F bodies on the High deck with Workers on break
266 CIMMS with F car, F car fender Line, and F car underbody line
267 F cars on the Silicone bronze Line
268 Roof instillation on F car
269 F cars and robots F car and ASEA Robots, and The "Qube" Robot welding F fender, and "Qube" artist's rendering.
270 F cars in body shop Manual welding and F cars at Unimates Automatic welding
271 Ding Man dent removal on Firebird hood
272 wheel pant shop-worker painting production wheels
273 F cars on the final line
274 Workers 4 photos, and F cars on the roof of the GM parking deck.
275 F car on overhead rack, F car at ELPO Tank, Z-28 on Towevor
276 Wiring instillation F cars, Rear Facia instillation F cars, Cushion conveyor with seats, cushion room with seat under assembly, last 1983 firebird at final line.
277 Audit inspection station with F cars, L-69 engine on Hoist
278 TOWVEYOR body marriage 3 Photos Camaro Z-28
279 Camaro z28 instrument panel at CPU inspection, F car Door Glass instillation.
280 console instillation on Camaro Berlinetta, main body hoist to TOVEYOR transfer with F car, turbo Bell paint system F cars, Paint polishing F cars.
281 F car pre paint sealer application, Sealer application 1983 camaro Z-28 Hood, rear Hatch glass instillation F car, firebird tail light instillation.
282 3 millionth car 1984 Camaro Z-28 and Build sheet.
284 4th Gen F car PPG renderings on display at paint shop.
285 F cars on the long line
286 F cars on the pre paint line after bonderite
287 First IROC Camaro Produced, LB-9 engine on Hoist, Engine instillation into Trans Am
289 worker working on seats at Cushion Room, workers by Camaro on final line
290 F car in Turbo Bell Paint Booth.
291 Rear Facia's on Racks in the North 40 area.
292 Bodies on S line on TOVEYOR, Firebird T/A at road and Roll
295 Camaros and Firebirds in shipping lot
297 F cars and managers in the C-4 building
299 F cars in post paint polish
300 the engine line with LB-9 engines
301 IROC on TOWEVOR
302 Last car Raffle ticket
303 IROC on TOWEVOR
304 Final Line
305 Last car IROC rolls off final line.


That is 67 photographs alone-covering the final 5 years of plant production.

 

Really appreciate the break down of coverage, are the processes described in words as well as the photos you mention above?

Also are the photos all black and white or color (or a mix of both)?


Just trying to get a good picture of what to expect before I part with my money; and living in the UK it'll cost me a bit more money in shipping and possible import duties + tax on-top of that.

By the way CPC Norwood, so you used to work at the plant?

Many Thanks

Jan

 

Jan,

Thanks for the interest in Echoes.

UK is a popular sales destination and shipping is a consideration but I have it cut to the minimum by the way it is packaged for shipment.

Each Photo has captions. The 1982-1987 line was a continuous overhead assembly line and its basic processes are described in sufficient detail to provide the reader a framework of reference.

To understand the assembly process (in context) the book should be read from start to finish as each chapter builds on the previous chapter.

The assembly process from 1970-1981 is described in more basic detail, whereas in the 1982-1987 section I take credit for the previous operational descriptions through 1981 that did not change- and then where applicable focus primarily on the changes and updates for the new overhead assembly model and technical improvements from that period such as the Rainsburg Turbo Bells, and the increase in Robot usage and technology.

All pictures in the book are in B+W print format.

I have shipped quite a few books to UK, Europe, Australia, BTW....

 

Between the information on the website and the breakdown of F body content provided by CPC Norwood, I just placed my order.

 

I have an 87 IROC built at the Norwood plant. I wonder how close to the end of production my car was?

 

I saw the book featured in Hemmings Muscle Machines (feb 14, the issue with Scott's Camaro), ordered one that night. The history of the plant and the story of the workers was very well told. I enjoyed the book very much.

 

I wanted to say it again, my review was a skim of pages in 20 min... so take it with a grain of salt...

 

Sounds good, I'm sold :-)

Will order one; might be out at our US office later in the year so can have it shipped there. Thanks for taking the time to provide a better insight into what to expect, much appreciated.

 

My copy arrived yesterday. Okfoz has provided an accurate and well thought out review, that I can't add anything that will be of any use to anyone.

The book looks like an interesting read. Many of my family members worked in the auto industry, several for Chevrolet. The historical part of the manufacturing process, insights into the UAW, the workers, and the role of the Norwood plant in America during that time period are interesting topics to me. As far as this book being a bible for thirdgen cars, not so much. My 82 WS7 is a Norwood built car that is original enough to be a reference car. The book my provide some insights on the construction processes that were used to build this car.

Maybe in the future someone will write a book featuring thirdgen history.

 

86 WS6 given okfoz's most recent post about his review I want to try to minimize any confusion within this thread.

To be clear the book "Echoes Of Norwood" is not about third generation assembly technology and the title makes no such claim.

It does however contain vastly more information and photographs to date on the topic.

During the Norwood Gathering events that I hosted in 2011 (the experiment) and later in 2012 and 2013 I was providing an opportunity for all enthusiasts to meet and greet the workers that had assembled the car that they own.

I was also gauging the desire for technical content within the collector and enthusiast community as I was writhing the book.

86 WS6--clearly your attendance one of these events would have provided great benefit to you as you obviously have a deeper desire for hardcore production detail. I get that 100%. I also know why you could not come.

Especially poignant and instructive is your own post in reply to this thread where you state "a lack of turnout for Norwood events could make it difficult for authors to represent thirdgens in Norwood history books".

This places in stark prospective the conversation that I had with Plant Manager Herb Stone in 2012 at the event in August of that year.

Herb: "Where are all the cars we built from the third F body style"

Phil: "They were invited but did not come".

Herb: "That's sad there is allot of history from that period of production we could share"


As I stated previously here in this thread "there is potential for future additional information releases specifically relating to third Gen production I am evaluating the feasibility at this time".

Threads like this are the barometer for determining the timing and the feasibility of a future work that would focus on third generation assembly technology. We will see.

 

I know not everyone is into the history and how our cars were built but I would be really interested in this and be able to follow the build of a car with all the stops, the broadcast sheets / assembly sheets for each stop explaining each step along the line and the process (both from a plant point of view but also from the assembly line workers point of view).

So I would encourage such a book before the information is gone forever and all forgotten about :-(

 

Phil, are you planning a Norwood reunion for this year?

 

Not yet...I get my marching orders from the Norwood workers. If they want to do it they tell me and then I move to set the event up. They did not tell me they wanted to do another event last year - until early March.

In the event they want to do it again you guys will be the first to know.

 

I can work on that, BUT those numbers are very hard to read. Can you shoot me a PM with that VIN or the last six of the VIN? I think I have figured it out but need confirmation. Thanks, David M.

 

Did you try a magnifying glass? I had to compromise a bit on the documents. The key was to display them to the point where an interested person could read them but hold the size so the book did not hit 400 pages.

 

It will be cool if that car still exists and can be found.

 

You can find it... It will depend on your local DMV.

Here is how you can find it.
1) get the VIN
2) Go to Carfax & Autocheck
3) Figure out where it was last registered
4) Go to local DMV where it was last registered, and tell them what you are doing, If they let you, then you might be able to track down the last registered owner.

I know in Michigan they would not let me send a letter, even though I did not even want the address, to the other Formula 350 convertible here in MI. I know it is in Brooklyn, MI (where the NASCAR Michigan Race is) but other than that, I do not know the other owner...

John

 

On the topic of finding the 3 millionth car, I wonder where the first IROC-Z is. Too bad nobody has the vin for that car.

 

You obviously have never met the pleasent folks who run our local DMV.

 

They are not like the typical government employee that treat you like a criminal until you are able to prove that your intentions are not nefarious are they?

Funny thing, think about this... The United States is the only place in the world where you can do anything until they say you cannot do that. Everywhere else in the world, they tell you what you can and cannot do...

Unfortunately that seems to be going away...

John

 

My bad... You obviously have met them.

 

Can you post the 3 millionth VIN?
There might be someone on this site with it and not knowing
(aka my sig)

 

The VIN has been partially cut off in the book, all you get is the bottom 1/3rd of the VIN...

The best I can figure is

1) it is a 1984
2) it is an L69 Car - AUTOMATIC
3) Z28
The last 6 could be are 170233 or 178255
Has T-tops,

So here are your options:
1G1AP87G?EN170233
1G1AP87G?EN170235
1G1AP87G?EN170253
1G1AP87G?EN170255
1G1AP87G?EN178233
1G1AP87G?EN178235
1G1AP87G?EN178253
1G1AP87G?EN178255

Charcoal int
Appears to be a Black Z28 with a red stripe and Charcoal interior Silver Wheels

 

Should be 1G1AP87G9EN170233

 

1G1AP87G9EN170233

Auto check says it is/was a VIN but has no records for it on file.

Playing with the random digit returns an invalid VIN reply-- except for the 9.

 

This site says there are records with this VIN : https://vincarhistory.com/creditCard...AP87G9EN170233

Not sure what it's worth.

 

That was easy.. I wonder if the car is still in Virginia?

 

I just wanna say that I bought the book directly from Phil at the GM Nationals last year. It is an awesome book. Phil has a huge amount of knowledge on the factory as well as Camaros in general. (If I'm not mistaken I met Phil the year before last while looking at his restored orange 2nd Camaro in the super car show room-- is that right Phil? did you have an orange car there that year?)
If you ever decide to do a 3rd gen book put me on the buyers list!!!

 

That would be me with the orange 1970. I also have two third Gens--one LU-5 and one LG-4. Both are LA cars and both are 82's.

BTW...glad you liked the book..