((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Arnold has a beautiful 89 5.7 car! I would like to ask him if he would have paid over 20 grand for it? I learned a lot trying to sell my car last year. Big money buyers are not out there for these cars like they are for the 60s muscle cars! Arnold and I both belong to a Facebook group called "lets bring back reasonable muscle car prices." There are a few very knowledgeable appraisers in there. I am going to ask them what they think about this.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Keep it! You have plenty of room I see. If I had that much room I would still have my camaro!

scottmoyer

Mike, it's not worth arguing with you over these prices. You said that no 3rd gen is worth $30k and I think you said that they aren't even worth $20k. I don't remember your argument about the $20k part and I don't feel like going back to look. However, I show you recent sales of these cars in the $20k-$30k range and all you have to say is "There's a sucker born every minute".

Like you, I've owned third gens while they were still new cars on the streets. I've had five personally, including the one I have now. The 3rd gen will bypass and out price the second gens. Just because the 2nd gens came 1st, doesn't mean their value will go up first. The 3rd gens are the return to performance and many of them can hang with muscle cars of the 60s. The second gens can't, so that part of your argument is shot!! Also, during the 80s, the hottest car on the street was the 3rd gen Camaro and Firebird. The generation of teens from the 80s are now in their 40s and "are" looking for these cars. Not everybody wants a 1st gen Camaro. I had one! I sold it for the IROC-Z. I like the cars of "my" generation, not my fathers and there are plenty out there that agree.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

Z28's are still on gateways website .. I emailed them and z38 is still for sale ..

chazman

iTrader: (4)

It looks like I have room, but I really don't

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Mike, I'm on that page as well.

In another thread I posted about a car they had on that page a couple weeks ago. It was a 25th Heritage, Z03, Z28, convertible. It was in really nice shape, not perfect, but really nice. Low miles too - like 20-30K miles. The seller had it listed for $16,xxx and the car sold. Everyone in that thread said, that price is ridiculous, who would buy it for that, it's only worth $5-$6K, tops.

I tried to explain that the rear emblem alone is worth $300. And if you want a low miles, Z03, 'vert you're gonna pay. I also went on to say, if the buyer got it for anything less than $12K, he stole it.

Man, did that ruffle some feather!

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

another salesman just emailed me and said both z28's are gone .. then he asked me if i was in the market for one and i said maybe but your prices are very high .. then he said we just ask high but dont get anywhere near our asking price ..

scottmoyer

All prices that I listed above came from these company websites under "sold" inventory or recently sold inventory. I did not post anything from current inventory because asking prices and selling prices are very different. If they listed these cars as sold, when they aren't or weren't, I apologize. My intent is not to mislead. I looked at only websites that had a sold inventory section.

Just like these dealers, I can ask whatever I want for my car, but that doesn't mean I'll sell it for that. I've mentioned that a few times now.

scottmoyer

Ok. I just went back to Gateway Classic Cars website and I screwed up. I went to their recently sold page then did a search for make and model thinking it was for their sold inventory. It took me to their current inventory. My mistake on Gateway Classic Cars. The rest of my list is from actual recent sales.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Okay we can just agree to disagree. I love third generation F bodies. I think nice pristine ones are worth around 20 grand but they are topped out there. Thats what I said or what I meant. I am too lazy to go look back at what I said. The Turbo T/A and maybe the rarer 1LE cars are worth north of 30K but yeah after that someone is paying too much for a regular low mile camaro if they paid 30+K. I am from that generation that came into the car scene in the 1980s. The IROCZ is the car that got me into cars. But I would never pay north of 20 grand for one. These cars do not have the respect of the general population to command these prices. And yes they perform as well or better than the cars of the 60s. I blame bias ply tires and lousy suspension components of those days more than any lack of power from the 60s. Nothing beats what we have today though. I have a soft spot for 80-81 Z28s. They give similar driving experiences to the third generation cars and they have their fan base as well. The Bandit T/As were as iconic as the IROCZ and they aren't fetching those prices either. You showed me prices that a dealer overinflated as proof and you are telling me that saying there is a sucker born every minute is out of line in that respect? Okay.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

I actually got a comment over there that said the same thing i did. They are topped out around 20K. But you have to look at that group as the main body of muscle car enthusiasts in this country. They came from all over the spectrum. Some are mopar guys, some are chevy, ford etc. but they, as a group are what dictates what cars as a whole are worth. They will all agree that a plymouth super bird is worth a ton of money. They will also agree that a mustang II is a pile of garbage. Even though the mustang II is no performer, there are people who actually like them and will pay more for a nice king cobra even though its nothing but stickers. I belong to the group that loves Camaros. If I wanted a low mile pristine car I would expect to pay between 13 and 18-20K for one. I looked for almost a year for one before I bought the 87 I had. the ones listed on auto trader for 18-20K sat for a long time. There was a black 89 for sale for 20 grand for almost the entire year I was looking. When I sold my 69Z28 I listed it for 35K (this was back in 2003) and my phone rang off the hook right away. A surgeon from SD flew down and bought it that week. Now thats a car thats worth north of 30 grand!! I listed a really nice blue 5 speed car for sale for 13K and it took three months to sell it. And I really felt fortunate to get $12,500 for it. most folks wanted to spend between 5 and ten grand. Scotts car is cleaner than mine was and its got more options. But not 20 grand more in options and cleanliness.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Ill say one more thing and then Ill shut up. I have always felt that the biggest problem for the third Generation camaro was a lack of a manual transmission with the 350! If you are like me you HAVE to have a manual transmission on your sports car. I have a 2010 corvette and would never even have considered it had it not been available with one. Yeah todays automatics are faster but not as much fun to drive in my opinion. The 305 sucks big time. Most car enthusiasts will agree its a boat anchor! You can get a lot out of a 350. Back in the day my camaros felt powerful because I didn't really know any better. Getting back into one after 20 years was a huge disappointment. They are beautiful cars but they need an LS3 and some 325s on the back!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I hear you on that, especially since my daily driver has an LS3, TR6060 and big Brembos. I just accept 3rd gens for what they are. Anything you'll find from 25-30 years ago, won't perform with the best of today. Just the way it is...

GASPEDDLER

iTrader: (2)

No Mike I would not have payed 20k for my car. Unlike you guys I "checked out" with regards to 3rd gens in 1990 when I sold my '82 Z28. When I returned and started my search I was pleasantly surprised at how many low mileage clean survivors were still out there and at how affordable they were. Prior to my research I was prepared to pay whatever the market had these cars at and honestly I thought I would be spending somewhere in the twenties to buy a car. Ultimately the availability of these cars or some other market force sets the price and I realized the sweet spot for what I was looking for was around 15k. In the end the seller was asking 18k and I payed 16k, but I would have payed 20 or 22k if I had felt that's where the market was at for my particular car. That being said, a guy can price his property at any price he chooses and for whatever reason-it's his call. Just my 2 cents worth.

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I would never expect a 30 year old car to compete with that we have today. Isn't it a great time to be a car guy and have the money to enjoy it? I really have a soft spot for your crossfire Z28. Yeah my honda civic may beat it in a drag race but I love it just the way it is. Its a good thing I don't have more garage space. No doubt I would fill it up. I hope you keep that car!

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for that honest answer Arnold. Your car was worth every bit of what you paid for it. It is one of those IROCS in the top 10% that are just pristine. It was priced fairly. I think if the seller wanted to hold out he may have gotten the 18 he was asking for it but he obviously wanted to sell it. I don't think I'll ever buy another car that is original like the one I had. I didn't want to change anything. I thought it was so cool that the dust covers on the rotors had no dents or pry marks from any brake job. I don't know, Im strange that way. I like having a car I can wrench on and drive it like I stole it. I just spent another $500 on my vette last night! Curse you ebay!!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

There are so many, mint, low miles, 3rd gens just coming out of the woodwork. I never saw that 10 years ago. In fact, 10-15 years ago, I felt my '89 may be one of the few left! Now I see a couple for sale every month.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

You know, everyone tells me to keep it, but I'm ready to move on. I want to reshuffle my car collection and for that to happen, one or two have to go. I've had a ton of fun with that darned car over the past 7-8 years, but it's time for someone else to enjoy it. I wouldn't let it go unless it goes to a good home, though....

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/5499542795.html

poor guy still has it for sale .. down to 14,800 .. if he drops it another grand or two he might get a buyer .. nice looking car

F-body-fan

The add has is deleted as of this morning. maybe he sold it?

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

he takes it down and puts another ad up every other day it seems like ..

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/5505781071.html

((Mike))

iTrader: (1)

The mileage is hurting him. The car is in beautiful shape. I hate red interiors and I think a lot of other people do too. He's getting close to the right price. I think it will sell if he comes down to 12 or 13. Unless these cars have low mileage they don't bring prices north of 12 or 13K. My 87 had 33,000 miles on it, was an LB9 5 speed car and it took me a while to get $12,500 for it.

F-body-fan

I think Red interiors are sharp when they are clean & full of color.
But out of all the colors, they can look the absolute worst if they get dirty worn & faded.

I had a Black 87 with a red interior that wasn't my favorite combo, But sure looks nice inside white IMO

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

When I was looking it seems you can get a low mile IROC that was taken care of for under $15k easily.

The ones that go for over $20k seem to have super low miles under 20k miles) or are super rare (1LE). There's one for sale in Florida for $30k with under 2000 miles that was never registered. It was bought by a dealer and kept in a collection. They claim you would be the first owner if you bought it.

My way of thinking was I didn't want a museum car.. I don't want to be afraid to drive it. For $20k+ you're looking at a museum piece that someone is going to save and possibly hope it will be worth $300k in 20 more years.

I've seen Grand Nationals bring big money and GNXs going for $100k.

The 80s cars are on their way up.

Just saw an article in Forbes saying Grand Nationals and IROC Camaros are being looked at by car collectors. Turbo Trans Am would be a good investment too.

Hagerty won't insure even a low mile IROC for more than $20k. For now.

-JC

scottmoyer

Hagerty must be behind the ball then. Grundy has had my car valued over $20k for a few years now.

F-body-fan

They are for sure on the rise. I was buying up 2nd generation survivors when I could starting 18 years ago. Over the past decade they have gotten to a price where I can't justify buying another one & I am happy to have the ones I acquired over those years.

At that time, maybe 1995 ish, I was going to sell my 87 Iroc. (the drivers version of scotts car) Its a 3 owner 5.7 survivor with 62K(ish) miles, original paint, interior etc, loaded, but has its blemishes. I guess what you would expect a 8 year old driver to look like if it was well kept & 1995 again.

When I looked at the market back then, they where only bringing 5-6K & 7K was the "I don't want to sell it" price. I decided I couldn't let it go for that so I put it into storage. I didn't think of it as a classic car at the time. When it became 20 years old, I re-registered it with classic plates & started to drive it again once in a great while. Probably 100 miles over the last 19 years?

Now I know I did the right thing by keeping it & I have been keeping an eye open for decent deals on lower mile survivors. Now is the time to buy them. They are creeping up in value faster than than ever, & in another 8-10 years, there will be a lot of "i should have bought that" phrases being said

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Well, I think you can get them appraised for over $20k for sure.. But without an appraisal Hagerty does $20k.

A guy near me had a 5 speed 87 T-Top TPI and sold it for $23k
6000 miles all original.. Original owner. Paint looked good, interior looked mint.

****** these cars up now while we still can!

They will be going up in the next 10 years

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Right on FBody Fan,

I remember when my 2nd Third Gen which was a 1987 5 speed, T-Top TPI 3:42 4 wheel disc loaded with 36k miles was $6900. That was 1994.

And that was a high price back then.

Cars in general are so much more expensive with all these people dropping $40k like its nothing.

I wish I had more garage space to pick up a couple more survivors out there.

I did see a super low mile 1990 1LE going for $60k.. I think it ended up going to auction. I wonder what it brought for money.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

theres alot of good deals on third gens out there right now .. i just found a 9,000 mile iroc for 13,500 and the guy said make offer so i know i can get it cheaper ..

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Third Gens are in a weird time now where they are becoming legitimate classics but some people don't think they'll ever be worth anything..

You can get a good deal still from people that don't know what they have, but this time will run out eventually..

vinny R

Chaz and Mike said they are part of "bring back affordable muscle cars" well here they are...ours. What other car can you buy at these prices, I mean you can get a project car for under 2k, decent driver for 6-9g's all the way up to a pristine low mile showroom car for 30k. Just try to find a another generation of cars that you can buy at these prices. A brand new camaro with a V8 will cost you over 30k. I saw a 69 camaro vert pulled from a junkyard, rusted no engine or wheels,,,,$6800. That is what I paid for my vert and I take it to local cruise ins, car shows and can't go anywhere without someone asking me about the car. This is a weird time, You have the ones that feel these cars will just be worth the scrap metal that they are and others who see the bigger picture. We should all be glad that 3rd gens are still "affordable" reguardless of your opinion on that specific vehicles worth, or what you have to spend. That is what is great about this point in time for 3rd gens, you can afford one no matter what your budget is. I am one that believes that one day someone will be pulling my rusted vert from a yard and will pay more than I did for it.https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/imag...lies/smile.gif

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

IROCs have a weird stigma..

One minute they were everywhere and the people that drove them were looked at as "trashy", reckless jerks with ******s and gold chains

People would shout, "I Reak Of Cologne" or "Italian Retard Out Cruisin"

The car got a stigma because it stood out and attracted people in the 80s and 90s that like to stand out.

The IROC stood out more than the Vette to a lot of people. Some people used to say a Vette was a plastic, dangerous two seater for "douchebags" who don't care about anything or anyone..

Well a lot of those people got an IROC instead..

The problem now is, at least where I live, no one has seen a nice IROC on the road in at least 10+ years..

They stand out even more now because the car style-wise was a winner.. But people just didn't like who was buying them back in the day..

I believe the stigma attached to the car is holding the prices down. I never looked at these cars that way. They always looked exotic to me.

It's always been my favorite style of car. From the aggressive road eating face to the Ferrari like profile to the DeLorian style tail lights.. Chevy nailed the styling on these..

80s cars are just starting to be "cool" again to some people and collectors.. A lot of people are resisting the rise of the 80s cars and it's all based on who they think drove the cars..

You're totally right Vinnie.. We should be happy these prices are where they are right now..

They were onto something with this ad:

Ha ha!

Fords88Bird

Yeah cool commercial.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Well, if you go on that FB page, you will find that the management doesn't feel any 3rd gen is worth more than 3-5 grand. Afterall, they have wholesale numbers to prove it!

I'll give you guys another example about that page. A guy was selling an '86 Mustang GT. All original, red on red, 5 speed, 68K miles, original paint, not a speck of rust. He was asking $5K. The mods ripped this poor guy apart, telling him that their data showed it's a $2K car. I chimed in and said I probably know 10 guys who'd pay his asking price for an all original, rust free car like his in the Chicago area. When I started asking questions and for more pics, the mods promptly deleted the thread.

jharrison5

You are exactly right. My dad had all of the great muscle cars ('66 impala ss, '69 rs/ss camaro, '64 el camino, '70 nova) when he was in his late teens to early twenties. He picked them up for next to nothing and never dreamed they would be commanding top dollar like they are now. After I sold my '81 espirit and my '79 trans am he told me that we probably should have kept them because they would be worth a lot more in 20 years. In 1993 paid $1700 for the '81 with 81k on it and in 1994 paid $1000 for the '79 with 120k on it. I have seen similar condition cars going for $7000-$8000 in my neck of the woods lately.

Third gens will bring the same money in time just simply because there are fewer and fewer on the roads.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

you can get pristine low mile showroom cars in the teens if you look around

te-44

I don't think so.... I looked for the better part of a year for the car I have right now and believe me it wasn't in the low teens! You have to look past the car having just low mileage that in itself doesn't make it worth more its all about the options the car has on top of the low miles.


1987 Iroc
5.7 Auto
Black
1SC Package 3
Grey Leather
Factory T-Tops
Power Seat
Power Mirrors
Power Windows
Power Hatch Release with Pull Down ( still works )
A/C still R12 and blow cold
Bose Gold Sound System
Deluxe Rear Compartment Trim
Overhead Roof Console
All Original Car minus tires, front floor mats, and battery.
Car has 6371 miles
Purchase price $17,500


Car is missing the split rear seat option, power antenna, and heavy duty battery option.


The options and the low miles is what made this car worth the money to me... No way in the world would I have spent that kind of money on a LG4 car.....


The first weekend I had the car it won best of show... I added that to the rest of the awards the prior owner passed along when I picked up the car.

scottmoyer

Soooo. What you're saying is that we're to believe that this Facebook group of people that are trying to bring back reasonable car values are doing so by telling people to just advertise/sell them for less and that will bring their value down? Sounds about right. As you know, my plan has been the opposite with requesting asking prices go up. If people see everyone asking a higher price, they will feel the car values are increasing and will buy before they can't afford it.

And Mike said in an earlier post;

Doesn't sound like a reliable source to me. Just because they are enthusiasts, doesn't mean they know all the answers. One of the local cars that sold for over $30k was appraised at a much lower number by a collector museum that does this for a business. The owner needed to work with him and prove to him that his appraisal was off mark. The appraisal was changed, and coincidentally, the selling price was within $1k of the new appraisal. These guys sound like the enthusiasts on this forum that have opinions in all directions. Does that make them right?

te-44

Sold at auction March 5,2016


305 TPI auto car in blue with dark grey interior beautiful car 100% original down to the tires. I bid had up to $17,000


ST-0127
1985
CHEVROLET
CAMARO IROC Z
1071 miles
$21,000.00


Same auction


ST-0128
1989
PONTIAC
FIREBIRD TRANS Turbo
281 original miles
$34,000.00

I feel in the next 10yrs if your car is under 10k miles its value is going to be 10-15k more than todays prices

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

thanks for letting me know how to buy a iroc .. lol i buy and sell irocs all the time and have been doing it since the late 80's .. i just purchased a mint 85 iroc with 5,000 miles on it , all original down to the tires which are like new for 15,000 .. i now have 6 nice third gens in my collection .. theres deals on third gens out there everywhere , just got to look ..

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like a good deal! What drivetrain is in it? Original paint?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I know about the white one you just bought. What are the others?

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

all original everything including tires .. black with a 305 tpi , all power and t-tops

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

red 87 5.7 iroc with 60k
red 86 trans am with 55k
white 85 iroc with 5k
black with gold 86 iroc with 40k
burg 87 gta with 87k
gray 91 trans am nice car lots of miles

Fords88Bird

Very nice collection ray jr. So is the '91 your daily driver.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

if i drive one i usually choose the 87

te-44

Your welcome!
Yes nice cars there but with those miles yes their in the low teen's
The 85 with 5k good price at 15k

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Pretty much. Basically they post CL ads, and state that those cars are only worth 20-30% of their asking price and flame anyone who disagrees. Loads of fun. I keep asking them where they are finding all of these cheap cars, because I'd buy them all.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

You obviously have no idea what your talking about so please go comment on somebody else's stuff ..

GASPEDDLER

iTrader: (2)

Charlie, I left that group when they all agreed that a clean, low mileage, '90 IROC vert was only worth $5,000.