KMK454

It's a beautiful car. If I was a billionaire, I might consider it for the dream garage, but otherwise I'd pass on it given it's T-Tops and automatic/305 combo.

Funny to see everybody's comments... pictures are a tough thing to judge. As somebody who likes photography, it's pretty easy to photograph a car in a way so as to mask imperfections or defects. Aside from black cars, I haven't seen any original paint cars where you can't tell a slight difference between the steel and the plastic body bits, but a photo taken in the right light can negate that. This IROC either has the best ever factory nose paint, a repaint, or it's just a good photograph and the new owner will see a mild mismatch as the sun sets and hits the nosecone at just the right angle. And note I'm not even talking about basic touching up... couple in some savvy photography on just a modern smartphone with one touch "auto-adjust" and you could have that 800/1000 car looking like a 990/1000. Add in a DSLR camera with some nice glass and quality post-processing in the Adobe suite, and, well... probably not ethical to use those pictures on eBay, but they look great posted in TGO's unofficial photography forum (auto detailing and appearance!).

I got over entering judged shows a long time ago. My old truck collected all sorts of trophies, but it was usually because everybody had a 60's muscle car and I was only one of maybe 2 or 3 old trucks at the classic car shows. At the Atlanta f-body gathering, I won best in class, but the classes were so segmented that I was up against maybe 3 cars. Almost everybody got a trophy. At most other shows, the thirdgen gets lumped into some catch-all 1973+ or 1980+ car group.

The high-end 1000 point shows are great to go to and I love the cars. The rare finds, unusual cars, and stories of tracking down cars and original parts are what is interesting; scoring a car on 0-1000 doesn't capture that. Thus, the guy with the self-restored survivor gets lumped in with the guy who wrote a big check to somebody else. Both are still great cars.

My favorite, though, are preservation cars. These vehicles are as original as possible while still being driven; this gives them good, but not flawless, originality. These cars also come with history and character. Oh, and they get driven, because -5 points for dust in the AC vent and unoriginal valve stem caps doesn't negatively impact the fun of driving an original, survivor thirdgen on some nice twisty roads...

Thirdgens are at a bit of a crossroads... our near-1000 point cars are still original survivors with meticulous maintenance histories. However, as the cars grow older, that original paint is going to need a repaint, the radiator hoses (and their clamps!) may need work, and so on. It's unavoidable. I'd say 35-40 years old is about the limit. At that point, you have to start sacrificing true originality in order to maintain perfection... and that's where the restoration of original parts or scouting out NOS bits comes in to play. Oh, and finding a really good paint guy.

APACHE JOHN

I I have many intersts Old pontiacs,old BMW's Porsches etc undercoat is a frowned upon in all realms

scottmoyer

Just so you guys know, I'm not the one that established requirements for 1000 point judging. I've just been the judge. And when I say "better than factory", I'm not referring to a fully restored car. I'm referring to a car like mine, that is cleaner than it is when it came from the dealer.

I just bought a 2015 car and brought it home to fully detail the car. They don't come perfect or perfectly clean from the factory. In a 1000 point show, if you are in the original/unrestored class, there better be the orange peel and paint color mismatch, but the car still needs to be dust free and clean. Inside and out!

I've had points deducted for a paint touch up mark from the previous owner. The judge said it was a paint/restoration. In an original/unrestored class, they were right. At that show, Corvette Bloomington Gold judges judged the cars, so they know the ropes. If you don't like the rules of judging, then don't get your car judged.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Some of us like to drive our cars and although we can appreciate the time & effort it takes to deliver a 1000 point prize winning car, cannot fathom the idea of possessing one.

F-body-fan

I think maybe because we are all car fanatics we take somebody judging our cars personal.
If you want to win trophies with your car, The car has to go the the type of venue that best fits your car. I built a car 7 years ago that I restored nut & bolt with the intention of never driving it. It's not a popular car like a camaro, but I built it just because I wanted to see if I could. It was a whole different mentality build really. I have friends that think I am goofy that I have a car I don't drive, but its what I wanted to do at the time.

But I also have other cars that I drive in the summer on nice days that are very nice, but if they get a stone chip, or a scratch its not the end of the world. They are nice enough where they would probably place in local car shows, but would get crucified at a show like the MCACN, & I am fine with that, I get it.

Most local car club shows will not knock you for things that driven cars end up with. Thats what most of these cars are all about! driving the cars & enjoying them! I completely agree with that! But, the type of show we are talking about above is a whole different animal & not for everyone, & for sure not for every car. I was docked points for the silliest things. a very slight deviation in one of the seats panels, a casting blemish in a headlight bezel, a small panel fitment issue, etc. They found points to deduct & I was ok with that. Imperfections are normally there, it just depends on what level you want to look.

Another thing to keep in mind is these shows typically score you against the system, So there are no 1st, 2nd, 3rd place cars by beating the guy next to you.

scottmoyer

Exactly. Local car shows generally don't do the 1000 point judging. These are usually national shows that are somehow tied to the manufacturer. I've entered my car in all types of shows, but as was mentioned above, you should enter your car based on how you feel it can compete. My car will compete at a local cruise night, but I usually don't expect to win a "spectator's choice" award. There is something to be said for the value of a car when you have it judged at such high levels and it scores highly. This is similar to the Corvette Bloomington Gold Benchmark award. Here's what they say about it

"This is America’s most prestigious Corvette award. The Benchmark award
is for those very rare, select Corvettes that represent the ultimate in factory
originality and condition. Benchmark Corvettes are not only unrestored, but
also in show room new condition. In other words, it is as if it were put in a
time capsule at the time of factory delivery and preserved that way until the
day it was judged. These cars would obviously make the perfect research
pieces for anyone doing a restoration or trying to learn about cars of that
vintage and type. ... hence the name, Benchmark. "

So, 1000 point judging is for prestige. I just read a bit more about the Bloomington Gold certification and that one is for accuracy in appearance for how a car might have left the factory, but is not for cosmetic perfection. The Benchmark award, as seen above, is for the very rare, select cars that represent the ultimate in factory originality and condition.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

1000 point judging is pretty crazy. You'll need to spend months detailing an already nice car to even consider it. Forget about driving it! Some of these guy won't even start their cars, let alone drive them!


Generally however, I'd rather see cars judged by knowledgeable judges rather than "people's choice" or something similar. So often, I've seen magnificently preserved or restored, interesting cars at shows like that, which go completely unnoticed, while cars that look like they've been run through the car wash or not cared for in years win trophies.

scottmoyer

And many that I know give me a hard time about not driving my car when it looks like rain outside! The area over the headlights is wide open to the outside because the TPI cars don't have a cold air intake there. In the rain, the mist and dirty water gets right into an otherwise detailed engine compartment. There's a few more hours of detailing!!! That's why my car doesn't have as many miles as some on here. I won't drive it if I need to really detail it again when I'm done! Too much time required for that.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Exactly!

You know what annoys me? When people say: "what's the matter, is your car going to melt in the rain?" What they don't get is not that you just have to wash your car, you have to spend hours detailing the engine compartment and undercarriage to make it look like it did before. No one wants to spend hours cleaning and detailing and then have all of that work wiped out, driving a few minutes in the rain.

F-body-fan

Completely agree. Sadly I feel slightly the same way about really hot Sunny days. All those UV's trying to fade out the paint, interior, & crack the dash pad.

Yes, I pathetic..... Let the heckling begin.

eseibel67

A few days in the sun here and there won't burn your paint. If it sits outside every day for years on end - then yes.

F-body-fan

Thats true, but the thought still crosses my mind. I have a few 2nd Gen cars that are notorious for cracked dashes & these are in perfect shape. Those cars I truly don't like leaving in the sun for any length of time.

okfoz

Years ago I went to a local show that was judged by other owners from a different class. More or less When you got to the show they would put your car in a particular class, then give you a judging sheet to judge a similar class... It drove me crazy, the number of times I lost to something like a rusted out 1977 Chevette... I quit going, it was a dog and pony show where friends would vote for other friends, and then pick a hunk of junk for 2nd and 3rd...
I usually only go to one show and it is judged... I like that, they are not supposed to worry about color, just about the details, whether or not your hub caps are straight, your seats are in the correct position your steering wheel is straight.

MACK1Z

B4C5.7

iTrader: (2)

This is priceless....too funny.

muswp1

And too true...

85Maroon

I love looking at these mint third-gens.