chazman

iTrader: (4)

He is super duper happy. He texts me several time a day.

F-body-fan

Wow, I like it. Even the door pleats are tight as a drum. Would love to see underneath it.

87TCamaro

dood its a stock car that 30 years old

F-body-fan

Exactly why I am in love with it. I'm the "old guy" who owned some of these cars when they were just a couple years old & they were at just about every stop light. I watched them slowly turn into beaters over the years & then disappear from the roads. Always amazed to see such nice low mile examples of what they used to be. That & the fact that somebody took the time, money, & space to preserve them. Just my personal preference, thats all. Almost all the cars I have are original survivors. But, I don't have anything with that low of miles. Low, but not "can't drive it" low

scottmoyer

You have no idea what you're talking about. That car is under priced for it's mileage and condition. And no, you can't restore a car to new status for less money. If you do a nut and bolt restoration to have all mechanicals rebuilt to as new, you're talking thousands of dollars, then thousands more for a quality paint job, all new interior will cost a couple grand and then the time to do it is valuable. For $17k or even the $20k, this car is a bargain!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I think you are way underestimating the cost of a restoration. Furthermore, even on a cost no object restoration, (WAYYYYY more than $10K), it's hard to truly reproduce an original car.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'd rather have an original with some flaws that what many people term a "restoration".

F-body-fan

can you explain Chaz? I agree completely on the original part. I am a borderline originality degenerative. Enough to be saddened by letting 20 year old air out of a tire. I would much rather have an original painted car with dings, scratches, or whatever over restored anyway. Not because they are prettier to look at, just because they exist & have avoided the body shops.

Nothing wrong with a perfectly restored driver though either. I will look at one of those anyway of the week as well. My philosophy is, You can restore them to any level you want, at anytime. But you can Never make them more original no matter how much money you want to spend. Want a perfect one original? Open up your wallet, cause somebody else somewhere is thinking the same way.

To each their own, so in a way I get what 87Tcamaro is saying, what trips his trigger is different than others, but for anyone to throw a blanket over the whole car hobby & say its one way for all, is so far from reality.

I was at a local outdoor car show a few weeks back. There were two younger guys with 3rd gens. built up carb'd engines, ok looking paint & mixed & matched interior parts. While those cars don't do much for me personally, I have to say when I was 16 with limited funds, my friends & I drove cars just like that, they were just Nova's, impala's, cutlass's, etc. With age comes nostalgia, & thats what makes me love originality.

Just a guess, I'm thinking 87Tcamaro is about half of my age

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

I can see it both ways.. I see original untouched cars and am impressed that they were kept unmolested for so long..

Personally, what I enjoy is having my car look brand new and feeling like I just drove it out of a showroom yesterday.. The first compliment I get on my car is that it looks “brand new”.. some of you would have never touched the factory paint.. but life is short and I don’t enjoy the little dings, chips, spider cracks and rough edges of 30 year old paint.. I don’t think I’d buy a museum piece car because I’d probably want to paint it and drive it which would make some people really mad..

When the sun hits your paint and there’s no flaws it’s just such an awesome feeling but I am impressed with people that own untouched cars too.. it’s just not for me..

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I guess what I'm saying is that it's really tough to restore a car and keep it looking original. Even at shows like MCACN, where folks spend $100,000 to $150,000 on a restoration, very, very few look original.

Usually when I see an ad for a "restored" 3rd gen, it usually means a mediocre paint job, mystery crate 350, 4th gen interior or improperly upholstered 3rd gen interior, chrome wheels, etc. Forget about things like trim, fasteners, etc. Those are NOT restorations in my eyes, although it is to some.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I think your car is in a different category. It was a mint low miler and you simply chose to give it a perfect paint job.

F-body-fan

My 87 is in that category. Not dented, but a few scratches & a couple areas where the factory clear is negligible. Back in 1995 I ordered all new decals & emblems & was going to paint it. I thought absolutley nothing of the factory paint back then. I just hated the blemishes. Times changed & the car went into storage along with all the decals & emblems. Today, it deserves a paint job more than it did 20 years ago, but I found a liking in the originality of it that I never had before. I would sure like for it to have perfect paint, but I also like it having original. I can't have it both ways, Unless I go buy a 6K mile untouched one.

I will probably paint the 87 someday. Its got some miles on it & will never be worth all that much, so either way I guess am ok with.

scottmoyer

I think the issue is that 87TCamaro said that the car wasn't worth the asking price because it's a 30 year old car and for the asking price, one can be restored to different than stock. The words he used were incorrect in a couple different ways. A restoration is to return an item back to as it came from the factory. And yes, someone will pay that price for it. There are many on this board that will pay THAT price for THAT car.

He is also 18 years old, which is fine, but the majority of us that are interested in this car, as it is, and at this price, are at least 2x, maybe 3x his age.

87TCamaro

im getting my car painted well for 1200 and you only need 1 k on the interior 1k on the weatherstripping and about 6k on the engine

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

87TCamaro...everyone's welcome to their opinion. But as this is the "History and Originality" sub-forum, you'll find that most who post in here have a strong appreciation for clean, unrestored original cars. That's not a knock on cars that don't fit in that category, it's just a preference. And one that this sub-forum caters to.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Just getting back to your point, do you honestly believe that a car with a $1200 paint job, $1000 interior and $6000 engine can ever be worth as much as a 6K mile, mint original car to a serious collector?

scottmoyer

So you say that you're getting a total of $9200 worth of rework done on your car. How much did you pay for your car? And it has rust in the floor pans and the body? No offense, but I can guarantee you that if you were to resell your car, and put it right next to this 6k mile original, that there would be zero interest in your car compared to this one.

I don't know how you can "restore" an interior to look new again for $1000. The carpet, headliner, door panels, dash pad, steering wheel restore, seats, switches, trim and miscellaneous parts will cost you over $2500, at a minimum! I didn't even mention the instrument cluster yet! A good paint job is, at a minimum, $3000 but, that would not be factory looking or show finish. To get the same consistency and look of the factory or better will cost more than $5k. Now, add in that $6000 engine with what I'm assuming includes a rebuilt AC system, $1500 transmission rebuild, redo the brake system for say $600 more, replace all the bushings, engine mounts, shocks/struts/spring for another $600, and we have your car at a minimum of $14,100. That doesn't include the price of the car or the better paint job. So if you paid $2k for your car, you now have $16k into a car that took a long time to rebuild and will still have worn parts that will eventually need replacing.

So, this car at $17k US or $20k CDN is a bargain, is a show piece, is a show winner, and is what most of us on this forum want.

You don't want to hear that I've had people interested in my car at the upper $20k range, and I don't have 6k miles anymore!

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Well I hope you know your standards are a bar that I consider.. I’m not quite as particular with every nook and cranny, but I’m glad there are people that are so we know what the standards should be

87TCamaro

wooh wooh wooh there horsey my family can paint the car WELL and Rebuiild a tranny for like 300$ and the interior will cost a bit more then 1k....i love my gauges already so they would stay the seats is 350 all done, carpet is 350, 300 for the door panels, and everything with it and i dont know what would be left so yah i think its quite possible the only part that will be another 300 or more idk is a sound system i complete forgot about that

scottmoyer

Alrighty then! I can guarantee that you CANNOT "restore" a car to as new for the prices you mention and have the car be so well done that it's not noticeable as an old car with a few fixes!

You say the gauges are fine, and they may be, but do they resemble that of a 6k mile car? You may have family in the business that can help reduce some of your costs, but you're telling people on this forum that the asking price of a car is too much because "everyone" can build a used car to be comparable for thousands less. You never said that YOU could do it for less. I still disagree with you that what you build will ever look as good as a factory original, for the prices you stated.

I just had a 2017 Mustang GT repainted completely and it cost Ford over $7k in labor and materials. Guess what, even after the paint was sanded and buffed, it looked great, but was still noticeable that it wasn't factory. Sorry, but I don't see it possible.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

You couldn’t do a proper restoration for even what the overpriced dealers are charging for the low milers.. even at those insane prices it’s cheaper than restoring a solid barn find..

87TCamaro

well you underestimate us our family has God on our side he gives us the wisdom on what to do

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

I had no idea God was in the restoration business.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Shhhh... This is how we get the big meanie reputations. Just let the ignorant hold onto their delusions.

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

Agreed Drew.

You guys are feeding a troll. Just stop. He's not worth the time.

87TCamaro

ok dont believe me you guys are just wasting your money learn how too do it yourself and save $#$$$$$ great paint job is 1500 guarenteed

Richardman1992

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Okie-dokie.

Apparently, the new owner noticed a puddle of gas on the intake manifold. If I still owned this car, we'd probably be discussing a carb rebuild and the evils of ETOH in our gas.

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Quickie paint job is $2k

Really good paint is $4k-$6k

Show winning quality is $7k-$10k

Custom high end jobs can go up to $40k

If you’re taking the whole car apart, doing all the prep, replacing parts, emblems, decals, etc.. no way you can do it for $1500 and that’s not including bodywork

I probably spent over $1500 on parts, decals, and the paint alone. You don’t want to put old used parts on a flawless painted car either..

A full restoration to me would be making every inch of the car brand new again.. everything underneath the car, rust , carpets, seats, plastics, worn switches/controls, wheels, glass, mechanical, getting rid of squeaks and rattles, all power accessories should work, body panel alignment, head liner, convertible top replaced.. on and on

A full restoration goes further than a paint job and a rebuilt engine..

And if you’re doing all that work you’re going to want to find NOS parts if the repros aren’t up to standard..

Just an NOS IROC-Z bumper emblem goes for $500 and they don’t make a good reproduction currently..

A restoration with NOS parts would easily be $100k+

I know a guy who restored a 66 Shelby GT350.. cost him $150k to do a concourse restoration and the car is worth $350k.. When I see that car with every bolt from an original GT350, that’s what I consider a restoration.. and all the money he put in before starting the restoration he said he’d be lucky to break even if he sold it for top dollar..

Maybe I’m wrong but I think you can:

-Build a fun driver car
-Build a car to drive and show
-Do a resto-Mod and give the car modern improvements

But a “restoration” is returning the car to factory brand new IMO
And you never get your money back..

If you can do it that cheap.. start a business RIGHT NOW and charge people what they would expect to pay and take that huge profit! You could make more profit than any shop out there..

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

That stinks.. sorry the thread got hijacked.. I forgot what this thread was even about.. ha ha

I often wonder how the crap they put in gas now is affecting older cars..

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I'd say, that's about right.

And your last comment is right on. Anyone who truly believes they can "restore" a car to factory fresh for 5 or 10 grand, should do it for a living. They'd become outrageously wealthy in no time.

87TCamaro

were you body friends christian....did they have God to help you do your best.......just a question for you to ponder

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

Even with free labor of good Christians the NOS parts to do a proper restoration and cost of paint and materials would be really high.. I’d say at least $60k in parts and materials to return a barn find to factory fresh.. $100k Resto is probably 1/3 labor and 2/3 parts and materials

I wish I knew people that would do hundreds of hours of bodywork, upholstery, paint correction, wheel refurbishing and mechanical work for free..

I’d say if you can get this restoration done for $10k or less, document the whole thing, make a home movie about it, get it out on the internet and share it. Go to a car show and document how the car does and tell the story of the good people who helped restore the car.

If you can do it, it would be newsworthy and inspiring to a lot of people..

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Great idea!

scottmoyer

Ok. Back on topic. Any posts made that aren't relevant to chazman's original post will be deleted.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

So, I may need help. Perhaps I need to join '80's cars anonymous. I sold this car because I felt I couldn't keep up with 4 cars. So why am I looking for something every day. Like I said I may have a problem.


So, I'm getting another project car to replace the one I sold. It's a car that many of you guys may.....or may not...approve of........

Details soon.

DynoDave43

iTrader: (11)

Toyota Paseo?

F-body-fan

Sounds like chronic thrill of the chase syndrome.

As far as I know, there is no known cure, treatment or medication

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Carl, you especially will certainly appreciate it!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

LOL! No, no, no!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

BTW, the new owner is still texting me about how happy he is with this car. He owns various Euro exotics and this lowly IROC is his favorite car. In fact, he's now looking for another '87 'vert in order to keep the miles off of this one.

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I would have considered.....BOTH!

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

So exactly how soon are the details revealed?

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Soon!

88IROCvertZ

iTrader: (1)

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Sometimes you are really hot on a car and ready to make a fair deal, but the seller is playing hardball. This serves to gives you time to cool off and by the time they are ready to deal, you've moved on and dodged a bullet.

SirReveller

iTrader: (4)