Updating tech data...

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Jan 2, 2002 | 06:25 PM

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Updating tech data...

https://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/techdb.shtml

Since there are still various errors and even some typo's since the last time we updated it, I'm going over it and will be updating it sometime in the near future. If anyone sees a flaw in the information, or something thats not mentioned that should be, post it here. This is the best place to complain because changes are actually going to be made... They're going to be made based on the information I've learned in the last year or so, and the topics discussed here. So let it rip.

Keep in mind if I can't find at least 2 printed resources that backup information it probably won't be added or changed. It needs to be as accurate as possible. If you have anything completely off the wall, some printed/scanned documentation would help to get it added or corrected.

Attached Thumbnails

Jan 2, 2002 | 11:36 PM

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

OK, theres lots to correct, heres some to start with. I was going to mention the Tech Data needs improvment.

Production Numbers:
(This section needs to be redone and made better for both cars but the Camaro especially, heres some for how it is now.)

Camaro Corrections: (There isn't a section for Sport Coupes or Sport Coupe Convertibles.)
82: Berlinetta is 39,744
83: Total Production is 154,381
85: Berlinetta is 13,649
86: Berlinetta is 4,479
87: IROC is 38,889
90: Total Production is 34,986

Firebird Corrections: (There isn't a section for Firebird Convertible, Formula Convertible, Trans Am Convertible, and TTA)
90: Total Production is 50,454
Firebird is 38,956
Formula is 5,549
Trans Am is 4,444
92: Total Production is 25,180
Firebird is 21,423
Formula is 1,052
Trans Am is 816

Abbreviations:
Should be MPFI: Multi Port Fuel Injection

Jan 3, 2002 | 02:01 AM

82RECAROTA

Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2001

Posts: 798

Likes: 0

Last edited by 82RECAROTA; Apr 10, 2002 at 09:11 PM.

Jan 3, 2002 | 03:12 AM

Blue502

Supreme Member

Joined: Oct 1999

Posts: 3,625

Likes: 1

From: Happy Valley, Oregon

Are you going to be updating the rpo decoder as well? I'd be nice not to have to always be answering what code 1AY is

Jan 3, 2002 | 03:30 AM

Dirk

TGO Founder/Former Owner

Joined: Jan 2000

Posts: 204

Likes: 0

From: Tucson, AZ USA

Car: 1992 GTA

Engine: L98

Transmission: T5

Post any RPO codes that aren't in the RPO database here, or start another thread for RPO codes... that way I can find them and add them to the database

Jan 3, 2002 | 03:48 AM

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

Dude, what is up with Pontiac, why can't they keep records?? I just looked in another "source" and got:

90: Total Production 20,453
92: Total Production 27,567

Even these numbers are different then whats there now.

Jan 3, 2002 | 04:10 AM

82RECAROTA

Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2001

Posts: 798

Likes: 0

Last edited by 82RECAROTA; Apr 10, 2002 at 09:12 PM.

Trending Topics

BAT: 176-Mile 1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 1LE Coupe

17

423
WTB Aluminum Rear louvers (will pay well for nice set)

17

280
3rd gen drum brake rear to 4th gen 4 channel rear

16

248
Fuel pump running when oil tempuature sensor plugged in

15

212
N10 Collector Y

10

324

Jan 3, 2002 | 04:16 AM

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

THEN, PHS says:

90: Total Production is 19,106
92: Total Production is 27,061

LOL, still different, and the other numbers for each model are too.

I guess PHS would be right though.

Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; Jan 3, 2002 at 06:00 AM.

Jan 3, 2002 | 08:53 AM

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

I checked two different resources last night for both the camaro production numbers and the firebird production numbers. I don't know how realistic it is to put all the production brake downs in there, since none of it can truly be verified. Even the total production numbers for firebirds are different everyplace I look. Like Dirk said the RPO decoder is his baby, and I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole. If anyone really wants to decode that random RPO thats not in the decoder or that doesn't make sense they can search for the RPO in yahoo and find a pretty close definition in a matter of minutes.

As far as the history info, if anyone has anything they want added, or corrected, nows the time to bring it up.

For production numbers, list your resources and I'll double check them and see how they look.

Jan 3, 2002 | 08:59 AM

#10

Grim Reaper

TGO Supporter

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 10,907

Likes: 5

From: The Bone Yard

Car: Death Mobile

Engine: 666 c.i.

Drew, I think where part of the problem comes from, is domestic vs world production.

Jan 3, 2002 | 09:14 AM

#11

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Very possible Glenn. I'm in a position where whatever numbers we put up will be considered as gospel rather than an educated best guess. These numbers need to be accurate, or they need to be left alone. If the numbers are domestic production without export included we need to note that.

The Camaro numbers in the tech data are right, except for a few years were two numbers were transversed. I'll do my best to fix that. The Firebird numbers are sketchy at best. I'm not sure why the Chevy numbers make sense and the pontiac numbers don't, but the Pontiac numbers that are posted here don't match the numbers in the books and references I have including PHS's numbers. Its possible there's a typo there, but regardless if the numbers can't be verified they won't be changed in the tech data. I'm not going to change something thats questionable to another figure thats just as questionable.

I don't know about screwing with figuring out how many of each model were built. It would be a stretch anyway since the numbers and options are confusing at best. Anyone here can go spend $10 on the Camaro white book and find allt hat crap for the Camaro anyway... Firebird is another story cause there isn't really any good resource for them out there.

Jan 3, 2002 | 09:52 AM

#12

ops32

Member

Joined: Dec 2001

Posts: 367

Likes: 0

From: Oklahoma City Metro

Car: 1983 25th Anny Daytona 500 T/A

Engine: Stock...inoperative... 305

Transmission: Automatic

Under 1983 Firebird info:
There were 2500 Pace Car Replicas sold (not 500), and this quote:
"The front bumper grills were replaced with molded plastic panels, with the "Trans Am" script on the right panel"
should say the Trans Am script is on the driver's side (normally called the left side...).
Rob

Jan 3, 2002 | 02:36 PM

#13

92GTA

Supreme Member

iTrader: (11)

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 4,309

Likes: 15

From: CA

These Firebird production numbers here are the result of about 3 years of reseach and are backed up by atleast 2 printed sources, in some cases even 3. There are only about 2 that are speculation which you will notice:

http://www.transamgta.com/ProductionNumbers.html

By just adding them up you will get the CORRECT production for each year. Not all of them are from PHS, in fact most aren't because they are so wrong, some are from Pontiacs own printed material and some are from various books and other publications. These numbers are also ONLY for U.S. production, notCanadian or Euro production, I'm working on those though

They are the closest I know of anywhere when it comes to the true 3rd Gen Firebird production.

If anyone has anything to add or change about these numbers, PLEASE let me know so that I may keep them as accurate as possible.

Alex

Last edited by 92GTA; Jan 3, 2002 at 02:43 PM.

Jan 3, 2002 | 03:57 PM

#14

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Can you list your resources so I can doublecheck your work? Not saying your numbers are wrong, only that I'd like to review for myself whether they can be backed up when someone complains they're wrong. I have rather in depth library dealing with these cars so chances are I can check most of your sources by just digging thru books and articals I already have.

Jan 3, 2002 | 04:24 PM

#15

92GTA

Supreme Member

iTrader: (11)

Joined: May 2000

Posts: 4,309

Likes: 15

From: CA

Here are the one's I can think of right now: Pontiac Historical Services, Printed Pontiac Publications, The Firebird Red Book, Pontiac Firebird 1967-200 Photo History. There are a couple others but I'll have to do some digging at home to find out the names.

I think it all comes down to majority rules in that if most various sources say one number and just a couple others say another, the more commonly used number (unless proven wrong) number will be the one to go by unless of course the lesser used number is from an extremly credible source (which I have yet to find with these production numbers). Not to say that I just guessed which sources number to use just because more than one used it, but I used a little judgment and common sense along with experience to decide which one to use.

What I want to know is where did all of these sources get THIER numbers? Did they all originate somehwere like Pontiac customer relations when someone called to find out, or where they dreamed up by someone and distributed as fact to people who wrote the publications? My point is we will most likely never know for 100% sure what the exact numbers are without someone going through the actual Pontiac archives and spending months counting each and every VIN for every year (which I would quit my day job to do in a heart beat if given the chance

).....

Let me ad up and break down the yearly totals for you according to my numbers:

1982: 116,364
1983: 74,884
1984: 128,304
1985: 95,880
1986: 110,465
1987: 88,612
1988: 62,455
1989: 64,409
1990: 20,553
1991: 51,184
1992: 27,287 (This # is in question because I don't know if there were 226 or 508 92 GTA's made, the total I just typed here is based on 226).

Hopefuly I added them up right

These numbers also include all prototype cars except for the 1982 3rd Gen experimentals made in 1980 or 1981 since I don't know how many were made.

Last edited by 92GTA; Jan 3, 2002 at 04:45 PM.

Jan 4, 2002 | 12:29 PM

#16

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

Here is the information I have gathered, and I list the sources & pages below for firebird 87-92 (Unfortunately it is really inconsistant some years.)

1990 & 1991 seem to overlap, and from what I understand 1991 was an early production year run, so some sources count the 1991 as an 1990. For example I used to own a 1991 that was made in May of 1990.

Hope this helps.

You will have to scroll down \/ because tables don't seem to transfer in correctly.

<TABLE BORDER=1 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=2>
<TR>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="30">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Year</p>
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="49">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Firebird
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="72">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Firebird</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Convertible
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="52">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Formula
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="52">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Formula</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1LE
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="58">
Firehawk
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="35">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans Am
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="35">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans AM 1LE
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="72">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans AM</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Convertible
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="35">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Trans AM GTA
</TH>
<TH BGCOLOR=#FFFF00 VALIGN=BOTTOM width="66">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">Total<BR>Production</p>
</TH>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD width="30" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1987</p>
</TD>
<TD width="49" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">42,552</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">42,558*
</TD>
<TD width="72" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">11,660</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">11,664*
</TD>
<TD width="52" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="58" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">21,779
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="72" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">11,096
</TD>
<TD width="66" align="center" rowspan="2">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">88,587</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">80,439**</p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> (350s)</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1,500# </p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="30" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1988</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="49" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">28,973
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">13,475
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="58" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">8,790
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">3 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">11,214
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="66" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">62,445</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">62,467*</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">62,455**</p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD width="30" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1989</p>
</TD>
<TD width="49" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">32,376
</TD>
<TD width="72" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="52" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">16,670
</TD>
<TD width="52" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD width="58" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD width="35" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">5,701
</TD>
<TD width="35" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">26
</TD>
<TD width="72" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
8,081</p>
</TD>
<TD width="66" rowspan="2" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">64,404</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">64,406**</p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> (20th Anniv)
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1,550</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1,555***</p>
</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="30" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1990</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="49" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">13,204
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">4,832
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> 
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="58" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1,050
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">4
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0"> </p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
1,442</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">2,496***</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="66" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">20,532</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">46,760**</p>
</TD>
</TR>
<tr>
<TD width="30" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1991</p>
</TD>
<TD width="49" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">38,956
</TD>
<TD width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">950
</TD>
<TD width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">5,497
</TD>
<TD width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">46
</TD>
<TD width="58" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
6</p>
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">2,403
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">6
</TD>
<TD width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
555</p>
</TD>
<TD width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
2,035</p>
</TD>
<TD width="66" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">50,454</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">20,332**
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">43,306***
</TD>
</tr>
<TR>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="30" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1992</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="49" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">23,099
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1265
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">1052
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="52" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">22
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="58" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
19</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">971
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">9
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="72" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
663</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="35" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">
508</p>
</TD>
<TD bgcolor="#FFFFCC" width="66" align="center">
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">27,567</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 0">25,180**</p>
</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>

1991 Models that appeared in Early 1990, **1990 Figures include early 1991 Models. For 1991 Other Sources Report the following: 30320 Total, 21,367 Base, 2,610 Formulas, 5514 T/As, 829 GTAs

Base information: Scala, George W. 2000. "Pontiac Firebird 1967-2000". Iconografics pp 61-85.

#Note: A 1987 Sales Advertisement Reports that the Formula 350 would have a limited production run of only 1500 units.

*Note: Consumer Guide. 1989. "50 Years of American Automobiles". Publications International, Ltd. Lincolonwood, IL. pp. 684-687.

**Note: Flammang, James M. & Kowalke, Ron. 1999. "Standard catalog of American cars 1976-1999". Krause Publications, pp 863-893

***Note: Holder, Bill & Kunz, Phillip.1993. "Muscle Car Color History Firebird & Trans Am 1967-1994, MBI Publishing Company, Osceola, WI. pp. 93-106

Last edited by okfoz; Jan 4, 2002 at 12:42 PM.

Jan 7, 2002 | 12:22 AM

#17

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Anythign else that should be added? I'm thinking if this is all we can come up with its not worth screwing with it...

Jan 7, 2002 | 12:48 AM

#18

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

I just made redone and accurate production charts for the Camaro and Firebird that Dirk will put up instead of the 1's that are there now. I have more things for u to add too, just looking for more....

Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; Jan 7, 2002 at 01:42 AM.

Jan 7, 2002 | 01:45 AM

#19

bzznczzn

Member

Joined: Nov 2000

Posts: 235

Likes: 0

From: Ormond Beach

I'd love to know how accurate that #1500 number is for 87 Formula 350's. Someone on this board posted the same number and same source, but said that after calling pontiac, he was quoted a number I believe to be 2384. I tried to do some research on this, but got no help at pontiac. I called about 20 different times and was told everytime that the computers they had didn't go back that far and they wouldn't even attempt to enter my VIN and see what came up.

Does anyone know if I can call PHS and see if they can help me figure this out? Has anyone tried?

Jan 7, 2002 | 08:39 AM

#20

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

Honesly, I got some numbers from a couple of web sites & I deducted, number crunched etc for engine data for the Formula, and I came up with "3562 Formulas had the 5.7 (L98) TPI" BOTH of the web sites are no longer with us, so the data is not from a good source. If you want to follow some of my logic, you can, its not complete, but if you do some figuring, you will see I am close with the info I have for 87. That is assuming that I have good numbers.

http://www.usol.com/~okfoz/87/EngProdNum.htm

John

Last edited by okfoz; Jan 7, 2002 at 08:43 AM.

Jan 7, 2002 | 02:12 PM

#21

Guest

Guest

Posts: n/a

The whole tech data section is very much Camaro oriented/biased. There are numerous mistakes if you include the Firebird in the information supplied, it was not always 100% the same across the 2 brands.

Jan 7, 2002 | 04:12 PM

#22

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

I know the tech data is more Camaro info then Firebird, thats why I updated it last time, to add to the Firebird info. Before that there were several years in the Firebird history that were completely blank. I need to know specifically what people consider is incorrect info so I can verify it and correct it if need be. But just saying "the info doesn't take into account the firebird" doesn't really point to the problem, it just indicates there are some problems. Point out specifics, please, and I'll get them corrected or at least substantiated.

Jan 7, 2002 | 04:22 PM

#23

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

Drew,
I have a breakdown year by year some of the changes they made to 87-92 firebirds If your interested. Most if this is common knowledge, other is things I have observed thru looking & thru the sales literature. I have just about every book from 87-92. I do have every year, some years I have 2 or 3 books & booklets.

Look on my web site, Under each year there is a section called Historical information, you can go to each of the different years from there. Unfortunately I have focused on Formula's, 99% of the info will carry over to the Firebird, T/A & GTA though.

The only thing I need to add on my web site history (that I know of) is in 1991 the tailights for the base Firebird & formula changed, slightly, the center piece changed from a silvery/goldish bird color to a red bird. I imagine there is more, but without looking at it, thats all I can think of at this time.

I have seen information that is very inaccurate, I persaonlly strive to keep everything as accurate as possible. If I am not sure about something I will usually note it. If there is a discrepency, I will use information from Pontiac before any where else, when applicable.

http://www.usol.com/~okfoz

Hope this is a help.

Last edited by okfoz; Jan 7, 2002 at 04:28 PM.

Jan 7, 2002 | 08:52 PM

#24

Guest

Guest

Posts: n/a

Well, the power ratings from 85 up on the TPI cars are generally different for the birds. Not always, but sometimes. GM confusion I suppose. I am working 2 jobs right now so I will just glance through and see what I see, and list here:

85 LB9 hp/tq wrong, 2.77 was quite possibly the std. rear end ratio for the 85, mine had it and did not have any option or credit or other sort of designation to specify it was special. I had every piece of documentation possible on that car. I think anything other than that was special.
86 LB9 hp/tq- I'm not even going to touch this one with a 10 foot pole. No matter what number you put there, its not going to be right in someone's eyes.
87 LB9/L98 hp/tq wrong
88 Ditto
89 Ditto

Firebird history.
1985:
needs hp rating changed.
"New improvements evolve the interior by adding new Recaro styled seats"
I dont really understand this one. The seats are the same as the 84 seats. in 1985, there was an optional Lear Siegler seat, and optional Recaro seat (actual, not 'styled').
"New improvements evolve the interior by adding.... dash mounted map pocket"
The dash mounted map pocket was available before 85, AFAIK it was first available in 82. The only difference I can think of is some (the TA's) had an additional pocket that was big enough to hold sunglasses or a pack of cigarettes.
"Firebird SE discontinued."

I think that might upset some SE owners. The SE was shot in the head the year the Formula and GTA came out.

1986:
"New optional rubber/vinyl wrap-around rear spoiler introduced on Trans Am" It was actually introduced in 1985.
Available 140MPH speedometer.
Last year of Recaro seat option.
Last year for SE.

1987:
hp rating issue again.
"Trans Am and Formula get optional 140 mph speedometer" Define "Get." The 140 speedo was first used in 1986.
The wraparound spoiler wasnt redesigned really, it was painted and only available painted. I havent scratched the paint off of one yet to see if the little bumps are no longer on the surface like the 85-86 spoilers, so if someone wants to do that to verify...

I suspect that the bumps were removed and that may be 'redesigned' but thats a pretty weak redesign IMO.
Theres a note about body colored ground effects on the GTA. I suppose since they couldnt be ordered any other way thats ok, but you could get a TA that way in 85 and 86 as well, although with a sticker/stripe just above them all the way around the car.
Something of note on the GTA's was the 'flag' style mirrors. I didnt like them, and apparently nobody else did either

1988:
"Trans Am made available with body colored ground effects like the GTA" Same as note just above. Maybe its because in 1988, they came that way and if you wanted 2 colors you now had to ask.

I know mostly about 82-89, I know lots about the 84-88's since I have owned or had family own them. I know less about the 90-92's since I kinda lost interest in the cars at that point and never really bothered to check them out. I've been going to Pontiac shows since 1976 and have always liked the Firebirds the best, so I'd like to think I know what I am talking about. I've never passed off wrong information, if I am unsure, I keep it to myself and research it.

Last edited by madmax; Jan 7, 2002 at 08:59 PM.

Jan 7, 2002 | 10:34 PM

#25

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Thanks Max, most of those things have come up in the time since I wrote most of it... I think the dash pocket issue was there to begin with so I left it... The 84-85 seat issue was something I read in a book and sounded right, since then I've seen earlier cars that used the later style seats... The HP ratings I'm not going to tool with too much since HP ratings are just advertising and if I were to research it I'm sure I'd come up with several different ratings for each combination. The SE confusion was that at the time I couldn't find any later SE's... hehehe
The 140 speedo was normal 86 production or midyear?
I'm not sure about the color issues... it'll probably take some factory sales literature to clear that up.
The redesigned aero spoiler I'm going to stand by... having seen a couple of them in the junkyard the 86'ish spoilers are almost a rubber, with a course texture and they turn white with age... not oxidizing paint, but rather the rubber breaking down. The later painted spoilers seem to be quite a bit more durable.
Any idea if the wrap around spoiler was mid year 85 or exactly when it came in cause I've seen many 85 t/a's that had the flat spoiler...

91-92 I've got pretty well covered since those are what I care about, the 90 is a bit of a mystery though.

There just isn't any good reference for Firebird info. Hopefully by doing the research the thirdgen.org tech data will be the reliable source.

Jan 8, 2002 | 12:11 AM

#26

Guest

Guest

Posts: n/a

90? You are totally on your own. No banshee/rain gutter gfx, SD engines.

My 84 bird had a dash map pocket. I still have it

Behind it in the dash panel was a bird embossed in the plastic.

86 they definitely changed the seats, IMO the 86 seats suck. They were changed again at a later date but I am not positive what year.

HP ratings, yea thats a whole can of worms. Maybe you can just add a note that reads something like: "TPI Firebird HP/TQ ratings are probably less in most cases"

The 140 speedo was available for the whole year. There was a federal law that the statute lapsed or was overturned, and in 1986 it was no longer federal mandate for the speedos to only be able to read up to 85MPH. Thats why so many cars (I think from 1980-1985) had speedos that only read up to 85. My 86 was built in November 85, and has the 140 speedo with a correct date code on it.

Color issues... My 85 was all white. I have pictures. My 86 is all black (I know, its black, but its still not silver on bottom

) I know someone who owns a red 86TA, recaro seats, and I found out he is the original owner of the car. Its all red and always has been. It looks brand new. I do believe Vader's 86 is all red. Both the 85 and 86 sales catalogs show single color TA's.

The 85-86 spoilers are a compressed foam material with some sort of rubberized finish thats sort of a small raised dotted pattern. None of them were painted. Mine is starting to wear off at the rearmost edge, I assume the wind and whats in the air is taking its toll. The later ones are also compressed foam, and I would have to assume they have a similar covering but more than likely smooth. Bret (who has an 88 GTA) on the socal board found out from someone at GM I think about the spoiler what I already knew, compressed foam. I have found that the earlier spoilers, if taken care of, do not crack like the later ones. When they are neglected, they do what you saw. It needs cleaning and protection from the sun unlike the painted ones. As for the 85, the flat spoiler was the standard spoiler. The aero spoiler was an option, and not many opted for it. I cant say when it was available for sure except I know I saw them when the new cars were out. My 85 was produced in March so its no help. I have a friend who bought one but I am not sure when, it had the aero spoiler. He might remember when he got the car. In 86, the aero spoiler was standard, and you could actually order the flat wing if you wanted. I cant think of an 86 with the flat wing that I have ever seen.

Jan 10, 2002 | 10:34 AM

#27

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Cool, got all that printed out and plan to add it when I get there...

I worked on it for about 2 hours last night and got thru 1983 for the Camaro's. I have a hunch this is going to take awhile. I'm also thinking about the possibility of including some pics so people can see what the different years look like, but I don't want to put too much content in or it'll take forever and a day to load.

If anyone has anything to contribute, post it here.

If anyone has 100% stock cars that they can take clear detailed and concise pictures of, let me know as I might be interested in including them. Any appearance mods more severe then exhaust tips would be unacceptable. Factory appearance parts are ok, ie factory louvers, etc. Rare options would be good too. Any GM promotional pictures would be good too.

Jan 10, 2002 | 12:45 PM

#28

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

One thing that you might look into for better clarification, is the wheels for the formula & T/A from 86-88. This is what I have found:

The 16" rims that came on the 86 T/A (convex) flat wheels were also the wheels that came on the 87 Formula. in 1987 the T/A would get the aluminum rims like the formula IF it had the WS6 option. I have some factory photos of 87 T/A with the later 88+ (concave) Formula dished in wheels. I also I have seen several 87 T/A's with the same wheels convex wheels as the Formula.

NOW, in 1988 there are Pontiac Photos with the flat style convex wheels on Formulas, but most, if not all, of the 88 Formulas that I have seen have the later concave wheels.

I went to the dealer, and I needed the center cap for my flat style wheel, and they had a picture of both on their computer for 1987.

Thats what I know and seen...

Jan 10, 2002 | 02:06 PM

#29

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Thats a good debate... I've never seen anything reliable state that the concave 16" wheels were used before 88, and nothing about them being on the 87 ta... I'd like to see what SPIDs say and what owners say. To me 87 formulas had early convex 16's, 88-92 had the concave wheels. GM's parts database isnt always right either.

Jan 10, 2002 | 07:01 PM

#30

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

<HR noShade>
<BR>
<H1><A name=camaroprodnum>Camaro Production Numbers</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Total<BR>Production</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Sport Coupe</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Z28/IROC</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Z28/IROC<BR>Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Berlinetta<BR>& LT*</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>RS</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>RS<BR>Convertible</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1982</TD>
<TD>189,747</TD>
<TD>78,761</TD>
<TD>64,882<BR>6,360 Pace Car</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>39,774</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1983</TD>
<TD>154,381</TD>
<TD>63,806</TD>
<TD>62,650</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>27,925</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1984</TD>
<TD>261,591</TD>
<TD>127,292</TD>
<TD>100,899</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>33,400</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1985</TD>
<TD>180,018</TD>
<TD>97,966</TD>
<TD>68,403</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>21,177</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1986</TD>
<TD>192,219</TD>
<TD>99,608</TD>
<TD>88,132</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>49,585</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1987</TD>
<TD>137,760</TD>
<TD>84,153</TD>
<TD>52,863 Z28<BR>3,452 IROC</TD>
<TD>744</TD>
<TD>794</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1988</TD>
<TD>96,275</TD>
<TD>66,605</TD>
<TD>24,050<BR>4 1LE</TD>
<TD>3,761</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1989</TD>
<TD>110,739</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>20,067<BR>111 1LE</TD>
<TD>3,940</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>83,487</TD>
<TD>3,245</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1990</TD>
<TD>34,986</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>4,213<BR>62 1LE</TD>
<TD>1,294</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>28,750</TD>
<TD>729</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1991</TD>
<TD>100,838</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>12,452<BR>478 1LE<BR>592 B4C</TD>
<TD>3,203</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>79,854</TD>
<TD>5,329</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1992</TD>
<TD>70,007</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,197<BR>705 1LE<BR>589 B4C</TD>
<TD>1,254</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>60,994</TD>
<TD>2,562</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<PRE>
*LT was produced in 1987 only.
Production numbers are approximate. Better estimates can be submitted for approval.
87-88 RS figures aren’t listed, probably included in Sport Coupe numbers.
</PRE>
<H1><A name=firebirdprodnum>Firebird Production Numbers</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Total<BR>Production</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird S/E</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Formula</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am GTA</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1982</TD>
<TD>116,362</TD>
<TD>41,683</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>21,719</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>52,960</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1983</TD>
<TD>74,884</TD>
<TD>32,020</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>10,934</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>31,930</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1984</TD>
<TD>128,304</TD>
<TD>62,621</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>10,309</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>55,374</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1985</TD>
<TD>95,880</TD>
<TD>46,644</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,208</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>44,028</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1986</TD>
<TD>110,463</TD>
<TD>59,334</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>2,259</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>48,870</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1987</TD>
<TD>88,587</TD>
<TD>42,552</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>13,160</TD>
<TD>21,779</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>11,096</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1988</TD>
<TD>62,445</TD>
<TD>28,973</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>13,475</TD>
<TD>8,793</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>11,214</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1989</TD>
<TD>64,404</TD>
<TD>32,376</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>16,670</TD>
<TD>5,727</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>9,631</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1990</TD>
<TD>20,532</TD>
<TD>13,204</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>4,832</TD>
<TD>1,054</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,442</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1991</TD>
<TD>50,454</TD>
<TD>38,956</TD>
<TD>950</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,549<BR>46 1LE<BR>6 Firehawk</TD>
<TD>2,409<BR>6 1LE</TD>
<TD>555</TD>
<TD>2,035</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1992</TD>
<TD>27,567</TD>
<TD>23,099</TD>
<TD>1,265</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,052<BR>22 1LE<BR>19 Firehawk</TD>
<TD>980<BR>9 1LE</TD>
<TD>663</TD>
<TD>508</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>

WEll if this works right, the production number tables should be listed above. The Camaro numbers have been crosschecked by 4 different sources, so they should be right... The Firebird numbers are still fuzzy, one source closely matched the existing numbers, PHS had different numbers. If anyone has any additional sources I should check, contact me thru email. Otherwise what you see here is what will be on the tech data page till I or Dirk decide to update it again.

Jan 10, 2002 | 08:29 PM

#31

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

Good job. I like mine though.

U can use them if u want. Camaro numbers are from the CWB and Firebird from PHS.
<H1><A name=camaroprodnum>Camaro Production Numbers</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Total Production</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Z28</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>IROC-Z28</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Z28 & IROC-Z Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>1LE</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>B4C</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>RS</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>RS Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Berlinetta</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Sport Coupe</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Sport Coupe Convertible</TH>
<TR>
<TD>1982</TD>
<TD>189,747</TD>
<TD>64,882<BR>Indy Edition: 6,360</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>39,744</TD>
<TD>78,761</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1983</TD>
<TD>154,831</TD>
<TD>62,650</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>27,925</TD>
<TD>63,806</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1984</TD>
<TD>261,591</TD>
<TD>100,899</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>33,400</TD>
<TD>127,292<BR>Special Olympics Edition: 3,722</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1985</TD>
<TD>180,018</TD>
<TD>68,403</TD>
<TD>21,177</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>13,649</TD>
<TD>97,966</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1986</TD>
<TD>192,219</TD>
<TD>88,132</TD>
<TD>49,585</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>4,479</TD>
<TD>99,608</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1987</TD>
<TD>137,760</TD>
<TD>52,863</TD>
<TD>38,889</TD>
<TD>744</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>83,890<BR>LT: 794</TD>
<TD>263</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1988</TD>
<TD>96,275</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>24,050<BR>
<TD>3,761</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>66,605</TD>
<TD>1,859</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1989</TD>
<TD>110,739</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>20,067<BR>
<TD>3,940</TD>
<TD>111</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>83,487</TD>
<TD>3,245</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1990</TD>
<TD>34,896</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>4,213</TD>
<TD>1,294</TD>
<TD>62</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>28,750</TD>
<TD>729</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1991</TD>
<TD>100,838</TD>
<TD>12,452</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>3,203</TD>
<TD>478</TD>
<TD>592</TD>
<TD>79,854</TD>
<TD>5,329</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1992</TD>
<TD>70,007</TD>
<TD>5,197</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,254</TD>
<TD>705</TD>
<TD>589</TD>
<TD>60,994</TD>
<TD>2,562</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>

<H1><A name=firebirdprodnum>Firebird Production Numbers</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Total<BR>Production</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird S/E</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Formula</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Formula 1LE</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am 1LE</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Trans Am Convertible</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>GTA</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firehawk</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Turbo Trans Am</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1982</TD>
<TD>116,364</TD>
<TD>41,683</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>21,719</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>52,962<BR>Recaro T/A's: 2,000</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1983</TD>
<TD>74,884</TD>
<TD>32,020</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>10,934</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>31,930<BR>Daytona Edition: 2,500 Recaro: ??</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1984</TD>
<TD>128,304</TD>
<TD>62,621</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>10,309</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>55,374<BR>Recaro's: 1,321 15th Ann. T/A: 1,500</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1985</TD>
<TD>95,880</TD>
<TD>46,644</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,208</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>44,028</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1986</TD>
<TD>110,465</TD>
<TD>59,334</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>2,259</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>48,870</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1987</TD>
<TD>88,612</TD>
<TD>42,058</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>13,164</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>21,788</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>11,102</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TD>
<TR>
<TD>1988</TD>
<TD>62,445</TD>
<TD>28,473</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>13,475</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>8,790</TD>
<TD>3</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>11,214<BR>Notchbacks: 624</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1989</TD>
<TD>64,409</TD>
<TD>31,876</TD>
<TD>396: Firebird, T/A, and GTA all together</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>16,670</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,701</TD>
<TD>26</TD>
<TD>396: Firebird, T/A, and GTA all together</TD>
<TD>8,081</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,550:<BR>1,555 with test cars</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1990</TD>
<TD>20,553</TD>
<TD>12,612</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>4,834</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,056</TD>
<TD>4</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,447</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1991</TD>
<TD>51,184</TD>
<TD>37,162</TD>
<TD>950</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>5,490</TD>
<TD>46</TD>
<TD>3,452</TD>
<TD>6</TD>
<TD>555</TD>
<TD>2,915</TD>
<TD>8</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>1992</TD>
<TD>27,569</TD>
<TD>22,499</TD>
<TD>1,265</TD>
<TD> </TD>
<TD>1,017</TD>
<TD>22</TD>
<TD>969</TD>
<TD>9</TD>
<TD>663</TD>
<TD>508</TD>
<TD>17</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>

Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; Jan 10, 2002 at 08:32 PM.

Jan 10, 2002 | 08:36 PM

#32

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Couple of problems there... This is my project... hence the reason I posted I was doing this. You sent your information to Dirk, who then lost it before he could forward it to me. If you want your information considered email it to me and I'll doublecheck it. In the end I'm responsible for any complaints that come up about the Tech Data, for that reason I have pretty much the final say about what goes in and what stays out.

I appreciate help. Otherwise this is going to take me a month or so to compile all this info, but it doesn't help me unless its directed to me DIRECTLY and in a manner that it can be easily interpretted.

Jan 10, 2002 | 08:37 PM

#33

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

Some things that can be added that might have been missed. Some things obviously go for both cars:

Camaro:

82: Camaro is Motor Trends Car of the Year in 82.
*Is 500 lbs. lighter, dimesions are reduced, and shorter wheel base.
*Windshield slope is 60 degrees, about 3 degrees steeper than anything GM ever tried before.
*Camaro within 70 lbs. of the original 67 Camaro.
*1st time a 4 cylinder was available in a Camaro.

84: *Road & Track selects the 84 Camaro as 1 of the 12 best cars in the world along with the Firebird. It won Best Sports GT category in the $11,000 to $14,000 range.
*Car and Driver selects the 84 Camaro Z28 as best handling car built in the United States.

85: The IROC-Z28, now in its first year of production, was capable of .92g's on the skidpad.

86: Paint RPO's change for new base-coat, clear-coat process.
*305 H.O L69 discontinued because of fuel boiling.

89: A new progressive throttle linkage gave smoother initial acceleration. The throttle had a smaller rate of advance at beginning of travel, and a larger ratio as the throttle was depressed.

Firebird:
82: Dimesions are reduced, and shorter wheel base and lighter.
*Road & Track selects the 84 Firebird Trans Am as 1 of the 12 best cars in the world along with the Camaro. It won Best Sports GT category in the $11,000 to $14,000 range.
*1st time a 4 cylinder was available in a Firebird.
*Windshield slope is 60 degrees, about 3 degrees steeper than anything GM ever tried before.

84: T/A drag coefficiant is .32 but capable of .29 with standard Aero wheels over the High-Tech turbo aluminums. At the time it was the most aerodynamic car GM ever produced.

85: Recaro option no longer available, but Recaro seats were.

86: Only 26 Trans Ams with the 305 H.O L69 in 86. Discontinued because of fuel boiling.
*Paint RPO's change for new base-coat, clear-coat process.

Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; Jan 10, 2002 at 08:44 PM.

Jan 10, 2002 | 08:38 PM

#34

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

Ok, I'll send them.

Jan 10, 2002 | 08:42 PM

#35

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Thanks, I appreciate it... I'd like to find more Firebird numbers though, I don't fully trust PHS' numbers.

Jan 10, 2002 | 10:12 PM

#36

IROCZTWENTYGR8

Administrator

iTrader: (1)

Joined: Jul 2000

Posts: 7,386

Likes: 1

From: In a mint Third Gen!

Car: Red 87 IROC-Z28 T-Top

Engine: 5.7 Tuned Port Injection

Transmission: 700R4 Auto

Axle/Gears: BW 9-Bolt 3.27

Sent. I'm sure people will like these too.

<H1><A name=LateralGs>Stock Third Gen Skidpad Results</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Camaro</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>82</TH>
<TD>Z28: .821g's (magazine test)<BR>.82g's (magazine test)</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>85</TH>
<TD>IROC-Z28: .845g's (magazine test)<BR>.85g's (magazine test)<BR>.87g's (magazine test)<BR>.89g's (magazine test)<BR>.92g's (GM test)</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>87</TH>
<TD>IROC-Z28: .87g's (magazine test)<BR>.88g's (GM test)</TD>
<TD>GTA: .84g's (magazine test)</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>88</TH>
<TD>IROC-Z28: .87g's (magazine test)</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>89</TH>
<TD>IROC-Z28: .9g's (magazine test)</TD>
<TD>GTA & TTA: .86g's (GM test)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>

<H1><A name=Cd>GM Third Gen Coefficiant Drag Results</A></H1>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width=450 border=1>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Year</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Camaro</TH>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>Firebird</TH></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>82</TH>
<TD>Z28: .368/.369 Cd</TD>
<TD>Trans Am: .323 Cd<BR>S/E: .335 Cd<BR>Base: .333 Cd</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>84</TH>
<TD>Z28: .339 Cd</TD>
<TD>Trans Am: .32 Cd<BR>.299 Cd with standard Aero wheels instead of the High-Tech Turbo aluminum wheels</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TH vAlign=bottom bgColor=#c0c0c0>85</TH>
<TD>IROC-Z28: .34 Cd</TD>
<TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>

Jan 11, 2002 | 01:40 AM

#37

Guest

Guest

Posts: n/a

Quote:

Originally posted by okfoz
I have some factory photos of 87 T/A with the later 88+ (concave) Formula dished in wheels. I also I have seen several 87 T/A's with the same wheels convex wheels as the Formula.

Are you sure you arent confusing the 15" and 16" wheels? They look almost the same. The easiest difference to spot is the small holes around the edge of the rim, the other is the lip from the concave area to the edge of the rim, the 15's dont have that.

Jan 11, 2002 | 10:27 AM

#38

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

Madmax, thanks four the reply, I just looked thru my Pontiac Lit for 87, and they show the same wheels as the Formula as an option on the T/A.

I have some books that show the concave wheels on the 87 T/A I will have to look it up...

I do know however I have seen pix of 88 Formula's with the 87 style wheel, I think the photos are mistaken, but I have seen several of them from different sources. In the Pontiac Lit they do not show the that style but the newer style wheel.

Got another tech question for you, I will post a pic of a Formula, from Pontiac, that shows a Formula with the Lumbar articulating seats. Actually all I can see is the headrests, but its clearly not the standard seats. From the sheen in the picture it is obvious that the seats are also leather, not cloth. Cloth does not shine...

I will have to dig up my pix and ost them in a few days...

John

Jan 11, 2002 | 10:52 AM

#39

Apeiron

Moderator

Joined: Jan 2000

Posts: 20,981

Likes: 11

From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica

Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop

Engine: 383 Carb

Transmission: 4L60

Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44

By the way to make the tables work without all the whitespace, put everything between the <TABLE> tags on a single line.

Jan 11, 2002 | 11:30 AM

#40

Drew

Thread Starter

Supreme Member

iTrader: (58)

Joined: Jul 1999

Posts: 20,310

Likes: 1,067

From: Salina, KS

Thanks Apeiron, I'd go thru and edit them all but its a ton of info to edit... hehehe

{edit: typo}

Last edited by Drew; Jan 11, 2002 at 01:03 PM.

Jan 11, 2002 | 12:24 PM

#41

okfoz

Moderator

Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 14,298

Likes: 197

From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27

Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT

Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI

Transmission: 700R4, M5

Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45

Apeiron,
thanks for the heads up, unfortunately, I just copy & paste the code from my web site. It would take me hours to do mine.

thanks anyway...

John