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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
I'm doing a little decal reproduction work. Some of my original emission decal is missing. Can anybody post a photo of their HO decal? A straight on, level shot, filling the entire frame would be great.
Here is what I have reproduced so far on mine. I still need to tweak it a little:
Anybody need one for their car?
I'd like to clarify that I am offering these decals free to anyone who can help out. Sorry to bribe you but its the least I can do for your help!
Thank you! I can use the info to reproduce the 84 decals.
I notice it is on the plastic radiator cover. Mine originally didn't have AC so they stuck it on the radiator support. I guess yours doesn't have AC either as the hoses would be covering the decal and there is no clamp on the bolt to the left.
Awesome thread! I too am restoring my 1982 Z28, which I walked through Norwood assembly as it was being built, just like my 85 IROC L69. I had to sell the 82 to get the IROC. It bothered me, but I wanted that L69 in 84, but learned about the IROC in April of 84. I found my 82 just 42 miles away last August. Im now restoring it like you. Thanks for the thread. Sept 1982, built the last week of 82 Production. Sept 2024 the day I bought it back
Awesome thread! I too am restoring my 1982 Z28, which I walked through Norwood assembly as it was being built, just like my 85 IROC L69. I had to sell the 82 to get the IROC. It bothered me, but I wanted that L69 in 84, but learned about the IROC in April of 84. I found my 82 just 42 miles away last August. Im now restoring it like you. Thanks for the thread.
Sept 1982, built the last week of 82 Production.
Sept 2024 the day I bought it back
That's incredible! Not only because you were able to find it again after all these years, but it wasn't trashed or destroyed in that time either.
Still haven't got back on my car. I hope to have the other two side projects done in a week or two.
I did make a visit to my machinist. The block is being bored .020" over. It looks like .010" would have been enough. And, no need to deck the block! He said he could have stayed away from the stampings but I'm glad we didn't have to worry about it to begin with. He milled .005" off the heads. The valves might be reusable too. There is no noticeable step where the guides wear against the stems.
I did a little more on the decals. I think I'm gonna call the hose routing decal done. I created an entire new font to match the inconsistencies of the original. I also attempted to duplicate the inconsistencies of the graphics themselves. Tell me what you think.
That is really a great job. I compared it side by side with mine and see no differences, other than a lot of age! Also I shook a little when I took the picture.
Here's the emission decal. I'm having issues with the bar code. The lines are too wide. No matter what width I specify, it still prints the same width. The lines on this jpeg sample are a little fuzzy too. I'll have see what the proofs look like when it's time for production.
Thanks to the guys who provided their photos to help me fill in the blanks on mine.
I agree with your thinking on getting all the info from different sources that you can. Just sticking my 1 and 1/2 cents in the mix.
I would not even know how to start working on those decals. Really amazed with what you have accomplished. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
The second time at about 200,000 miles I could still see the cross hatch. Now, I'm thinking this is unusual. I figured it would have enough cylinder taper that it would have needed to be bored.
This time, I can still see some cross hatch! Amazing! And, even the piston skirts still have most of the grooves showing. I used synthetic oil for the first 100,000 miles or so after I initially put about 5,000 miles on it. I thought that a lot to do with the minimal wear at first but for the last 200,000 miles I've been running conventional. Too bad .010" over pistons aren't available, because I am sure that's all it would need. Even the heads looked good. The valves weren't sunk and had good color. Has anybody else had this experience?
I haven't ran a Borescope into my cylinders but have owned and sold Chev's up to 300k miles with zero objectively measurable decline in performance. My current hi-miler's are a '95 Suby Legacy 2.2 w/230k, the other is a '92 'Vette with 220k miles. The 'Vette has had an easy life; track days, auto-x's, drag tracking...lots of road trips and lots of commuting. The Subaru? It's WOT all most all the time, that poor little thing! I might pull a plug on it and have a look at the bores on it. It still runs like or better than new, but my expectation was that it'd have died long ago.
Have also seen diesel engines in our snow cats w/over 12k hours, cross hatch looks like new...zero ridge at the top of cylinder. I may have to stick my Borescope down my plug-hole and see what my hi milers look like.... Yours are remarkable. I can't believe that your cam went 300k!
And, here is the final product of the Fan Warning Decal.
Now I just need to get with the decal company to produce them. I would also like to draw up gt4373's Emission Decal to get that produced. scottmoyer also provided me with a photo of his 87 Fan Warning Decal. I'll try to get that one drawn up too, but I can't guarantee it will be exact. A scan or a straight on shot, filling the entire frame is needed for accuracy.
If anyone else would like their decals produced let me know.
It looks like they changed the layout over the years. Here's mine. What's nice about these labels is that they are easy to remove from the material to scan them. Mine left the layer of adhesive on the fabric. I also notice that the adhesive area is smaller than the actual decal. Another indication that the fabric has shrunk. And, I can see that the print quality is different between the two. The one I bought has better lines, they are more defined and thinner.
It's interesting that the original label from my car and the one I bought later have them on the inside. I bought the other one as mine was shrinking and I could no longer engage the Velcro to close the flap when the panels were inside.
Today was just a 6-hour day. It was more than enough time to pull the engine/transmission. The engine is on the stand waiting for disassembly. Engines are one of my favorite areas, but I’ll wait until the rest of the car is totally blown apart before I tear into it. It’s amazing how dirty these motors get. Each time I regasketed it, it was about 100,000 miles each time. I guess that’s enough time for the inevitable leaks to completely take over. But, I don't think I ever attempted to keep it clean.
BTW, I don’t know where I got the 242,000 miles, it’s actually around 275,000 miles. I thinks it’s done pretty well, considering.
My wife even helped me!
It's always a good day when the co-driver comes out and helps!!
That car is in amazing shape for a T-top car, even one that grew up in the desert southwest. Nice work, and I hear you about running out of room. We're 'just' doing carpet and headliner on our 92 right now, and I'm having to be creative on stacking parts, even in a 4800 sq. ft. shop!!
Yeah, it doesn't matter how big your shop is, it WILL get filled up! Mine is a 30 x 40 and I thought I was in heaven for the first few years. Now, I could use a "little bit" more room...
Yeah, it doesn't matter how big your shop is, it WILL get filled up! Mine is a 30 x 40 and I thought I was in heaven for the first few years. Now, I could use a "little bit" more room...
You ALWAYS fill your fishbowl!!
Where are you getting your decals/labels printed? I have a SIR label I'd like to get done.
Gene, your SIR would be a piece of cake based on your photo.
If you could send me a PM with another photo of it, I'll add it to the database. The photo in your post has the left end cut off. I need a close up, full-frame, high res straight on shot. Or, if you want to remove it, a high res scan would be even better.
Gene, your SIR would be a piece of cake based on your photo.
If you could send me a PM with another photo of it, I'll add it to the database. The photo in your post has the left end cut off. I need a close up, full-frame, high res straight on shot. Or, if you want to remove it, a high res scan would be even better.
Still haven't got back on my car. I hope to have the other two side projects done in a week or two.
I did make a visit to my machinist. The block is being bored .020" over. It looks like .010" would have been enough. And, no need to deck the block! He said he could have stayed away from the stampings but I'm glad we didn't have to worry about it to begin with. He milled .005" off the heads. The valves might be reusable too. There is no noticeable step where the guides wear against the stems.
I did a little more on the decals. I think I'm gonna call the hose routing decal done. I created an entire new font to match the inconsistencies of the original. I also attempted to duplicate the inconsistencies of the graphics themselves. Tell me what you think.
Here's the latest on the bag label. Both of my labels have some graphic shift as you can see at the borders. I just roughly centered everything. I feel it's is about as good as it's gonna get except I can't decide on how white the backgrounds should be on the labels. None of them are a pure white. I can't tell if they darkened over the years. When I scraped off the emissions and vacuum routing labels the residue seemed a little more whiter than the actual label.
This Decal Is Not Available Anywhere Its Located On The L69 Air Cleaner
I don't think I ever remember seeing that label on my air cleaner. I just went out to the shop and shot this. It looks like it's in the same location as your pic.
Is this your label? If it is, if you can get me a straight on, close up, high res photo, I can start on that too. Also, the label size to the nearest 1/32" is also needed.
Here's the latest on the bag label. Both of my labels have some graphic shift as you can see at the borders. I just roughly centered everything. I feel it's is about as good as it's gonna get except I can't decide on how white the backgrounds should be on the labels. None of them are a pure white. I can't tell if they darkened over the years. When I scraped off the emissions and vacuum routing labels the residue seemed a little more whiter than the actual label.
That looks great! I would be happy with that since my car is no longer original.
While waiting on parts on my other two short-term jobs, I've been piddlin' around on the Camaro. I have most of the original parts that were removed years ago, including the starter, alternator and water pump which I plan on rebuilding.
The water pump is straight forward. It's a standard 376444 casting. I've rebuilt only two pumps in the past but this time I got the seal install tool in addition to the kit. It should make life a little easier instead of using sockets, etc.
The starter surprised me a little. I don't believe I have seen this design before. The most common starter used for ages has been the 10MT. This one is apparently a 5MT, #1109534. I can't remember what it was doing to make me replace it as it's probably been 30 years or so. The brushes are only worn about half way and everything else also looks good. I'm a little wary of just throwing a rebuild kit at it. Without a growler, I don't know how I could test the armature. That also goes for the field windings.
Notice that it appears to never have been painted except for the white inspection/ID paint mark.
I have an old school growler I could test the armature for you & clean up the commutator in the lathe,
but not sure if its worth the shipping costs to do that? Just an option for you.
Not many rebuild shops around anymore.
You know, I've never actually used a growler but after watching a few videos I'm wondering if it's really necessary. I see tests being done just by checking for continuity. A short will be easily detected.
You know, I've never actually used a growler but after watching a few videos I'm wondering if it's really necessary. I see tests being done just by checking for continuity. A short will be easily detected.
Maybe a growler is just faster?
Yea, I bought mine at an auction many years ago. I have used it a handful of times, but never had never had diagnosed a bad armature. just something that takes up more cabinet space.
it does create a measurable amount power between all the windings for comparison, shorts ,etc. but if yours worked great before, its likely just fine.
I guess it would make more sense if you were rebuilding an untested motor.
Do you have a picture of the oil sending unit?
My 83 is an HO also and i have been having a tough time finding a replacement oil sending unit. the gauge is 80psi and i have a 3 prong sender. I assume you have the same. I'm wondering if your sender is marked 60 or 80 for the PSI.
I'd be interested to see what kind of oil sender you have.
Forgot to add, my gauge goes to 60 PSI. No markings on any of the senders I have, except one has "Assembled in Mexico, another "Made in Taiwan", the other, "1083". I'm trying to decide if one of these is the original. The one that was on the car is the Taiwan one. The Taiwan and the 1083 are dimensionally identical.
So that leaves the "Mexico" one. I know GM parts have been made in Mexico but not sure if back in 83 or if the assembly line senders were made there to begin with.
That is interesting, that your gauge goes to 80. I wonder why Pontiac did things different.
On my Firebird i have the 3 prong style. There is one prong for the oil pressure and the other two prongs are for a switch that controls the hood lover. it will only allow the hood lover to open if there is oil pressure.
Interesting that the hood louver is oil pressure dependent. Why would it matter? It would indicate the engine running but I don't see why it would care.
No, according to the my 83 and 84 diagrams, the C/H, (Choke Heater), fuse powers the choke through the choke relay. The gauges fuse powers the warning light and controls the choke relay. Couldn't tell you on other years or Firebirds.
On my 83 firebird, there are a few different switches that are used. On carburetor Trans Ams, there is a 3 connector switch that is for oil pressure and to control the hood lover. On crossfire and the iron duke cars, they also use the three connector switch, one connector for oil pressure and the other two for the electric fuel pump. Other cars have a one connector switch.
Here is the switch i took out of my car. its a 60 PSI which is why im confused because i have an 80 PSI gauge. it could have been swapped at some point. I don't know. I did end up finding an 80 PSI three connector sender, but it reads a bit high and i dont think its the right part.
No, according to the my 83 and 84 diagrams, the C/H, (Choke Heater), fuse powers the choke through the choke relay. The gauges fuse powers the warning light and controls the choke relay. Couldn't tell you on other years or Firebirds.
I was thinking the oil pressure switch would activate the choke relay. I remember many of the early electric chokes activating from the oil pressure switch so the choke wouldn't open up with just the key in the run position. But, that was before ECU's started to appear.
I also remember some of those early 3 prong oil switches having switched 12V that would power the fuel pump with oil pressure & the 3rd pin was from the starter. that way when the engine was being cranked it would also supply 12v to run the fuel pump. this was late 70's cars though.
Many years ago, I tried jumping the 12V in the plug to run the fuel pump in a car I was working on & imagine my surprise when the engine started to crank when I probed the wrong wire with 12V .
I was thinking the oil pressure switch would activate the choke relay. I remember many of the early electric chokes activating from the oil pressure switch so the choke wouldn't open up with just the key in the run position. But, that was before ECU's started to appear.
Now that makes sense!
Originally Posted by F-body-fan
I also remember some of those early 3 prong oil switches having switched 12V that would power the fuel pump with oil pressure & the 3rd pin was from the starter. that way when the engine was being cranked it would also supply 12v to run the fuel pump. this was late 70's cars though.
Many years ago, I tried jumping the 12V in the plug to run the fuel pump in a car I was working on & imagine my surprise when the engine started to crank when I probed the wrong wire with 12V .
I remember my Vega was configured something like that.
