VroomVroom87Z28

and if only I had the 14 grand to spare, I'd be first in line.

check this out

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/stor...05-P930C0.aspx


ever want something so bad it hurts?

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

i wonder how it compares to the ls1 427 c5r engine...

Dan8289gta

Droooooool.

xtremeirocz

why dont ya just spend 7k and have a 427 with ls6 heads and intake with alot better port job then the gm one. some of those have been putting 550ish to the wheels. kind of like the mti package

VroomVroom87Z28

That does sound alot better, as long as it's shiny, lol. I always thought it was neat to see all these LS1's and LT1's in thirdgens, but never any LS6's or LT4's. I thought it would be a "unique" thing to do to swap in a high performance corvette engine. Unless there's some kind of problem with that which I don't know about. LS6, LS7, either way I'd llike to have one some day....one day.....hopefully......maybe? Well, I'll always have my dreams, they're pretty cheap.

VroomVroom87Z28

and I'm not really familar with an mti package, don't suppose you could enlighten me?

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

he'd rather spend 7k more and get an LS7 or doesnt know an LS1-427 exists.

c'mon you guys, if youre going to spend money do something impressive and custom. Like the 2005 GTO Tiger Stage 2. A LS2-455 stroker. 675 hp, 675 lb-ft.

VroomVroom87Z28

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Firebat
[B]he'd rather spend 7k more and get an LS7 or doesnt know an LS1-427 exists.

hmmmmm......

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

ummmmm......

ME Leigh

Add a cam to the LS7 and you have 600+hp easy. Its rated at 505 SAE net so thats 550-575hp stock using dyno gross hp. The LS1 427 are dyno gross hp so they are way less than the same net hp. The best thing about the motor is the dry sump, so you can build a freakin race car without losing oil pressure. Can you say corner carver?

TexasLT1

hey, I've got an LT4. sort of

Klortho

The 427 LS1s aren't built on the same block either, if you are referring to GMMG's 427's, they are built on the C5R block.

xtremeirocz

the mti 427 is built on a 5.7 block, custom sleeve. even a regular iron block ls1 408 has put 520 to the wheels and costs about 3500 for the shortblock. i seriously doubt that if you put a cam in a ls7 you will pick up 100 hp. In all the gm motors ive ever seen dynoed they are usually 100 hp less to the wheels. The numbers im talking about are to the wheels. the numbers gm talks about on this 17k crate motor are to the flywheel. 17% loss, you do the math

xtremeirocz

this whole thread reminds me of when horsepower tv dyno'd a crate 502 ramjet and it put out somewhere in the area of 320-330 hp to the tires and it was rated at 450 if im not mistaken. Thats a 10k investment there

xtremeirocz

http://www.motorsporttech.com/

ME Leigh

You have no clue what your talking about, come back when you have done some research. Chevy always underates their motors and are net hp not gross hp like on a dyno.

LS1 camaros are rated at 315-325 hp and most of them pull 310-320 rwhp on the dyno.

Also remember the LS7 is built and tuned not for max power put for stringent emissions and efficiency regulations. I don't the think the new LS7 ZO6 has a gas-guzzler tax.

There is tons of potential in this motor. I mean **** the stock cylinder heads flow 360 cfm. The cam is tiny 211*in and 230* ex with .591in lift

Think about it!

xtremeirocz

okey dokey, by the way have you ever even owned a ls1? but you are right i have no idea what im talking about

xtremeirocz

i hate to say it but i have seen zero of the 100s ive seen dynoed put out anywhere close to 315 bonestock. my wifes car put out 285 to the wheels when we got it new. i have been to numerous dyno days never seeing numbers close to that. i ran a dyno for a while and even the 2002 z06 that was suppose to have 405 put out 340 to the wheels. so i dont know

89 Iroc Z

xtremeirocz,
I have to disagree with you. The LS1 is definitely underrated hp by the factory. The 98-2002 Camaro is rated around 315hp depending on the model or year and there have been many bone stock dyno pulls where people are getting 320hp.

xtremeirocz

ok guys, whatever yall say

Klortho

I have seen quite a few LS1's pull maybe 305-310 a the wheels bone stock, all the way to the paper air filter (these were 6-speed cars) and I've seen some that couldn't hit 270 at the wheels.

It's very possible. One of the guys I know that knows LT1's inside and out thinks that with the headers, 3" exhaust and CAI on my LT1 I should be putting 300 at the wheels with all the emissions turned off.

xtremeirocz

i had a lt1 auto car with headers, borla, tb, ported lt4 intake, dynaspark, cai, afpr, and 1.6 crane golds only put 255 to the wheels

Klortho

Something wrong with it then, they are rated at 275 at the flywheel stock.

xtremeirocz

but you have 18% loss through the drivetrain to the wheels

Klortho

Ok, 18% of 275 is 49 which makes it 226 stock with the auto, a 6-speed will be a bit higher on this.

A couple of buddies of mine who know the LT1's good thinks I'm putting probably close to 300 at the wheels with mine with headers, no cat, 3" exhaust CAI and a tune with the 6-speed. Guess I'll find out.

Know someone else making 440 at the wheels with a cam swap in his LS1. They love the mods, like the LT1's do also.

ME Leigh

xtremeirocz:

What kinda of dyno did you run your LS1 and LT1 one?

fb305svs

most of the ls1 cars i have seen dynoed dynoed around 280-290 on the dyno jet... a little tweaking with ls1edit would get them 290-300, a lid and some other small misc things would get them 310-315....


i had one factory freak that ran 320 to the wheels... it was an 02, and i think he maybe got an ls6 camshaft by accident - never pulled a valve cover to measure the lift, but that had to be it by my best guess....


either way i'd pay for the ls7... between the heads and the block and th eoiling system, its more than worht it... someone said it best, play around with a less conservative cam in that thing and you'll have at least a 550-575 horse motor...

RaverRacerX

uhh guys... the cars are rated at the flywheel not the wheels. also a bigger cam on the ls7 would net you about 500rwhp or more. now the ls7 heads are close to what the c5r's are. sleeved ls1 blocks suck monkey *****. the only reliable way to build a big cube motor is either after market like world or dart, or a c5r race block. the ls7 is the "poor mans" c5r motor. if youve seen the ports on the ls7's heads, its a damn work of art. and yes there are factory freak lsx cars out there. the highest of which dynoed around 330rwhp and the quickest bone stock of which ran 12.7 showroom stock. i believe it was an 00-01 WS6.

xtremeirocz

they were both done at motorsport technologies here in houston.

ME Leigh

Do you know what kind or brand dyno they have?

Ian_F

A guy I know has an 02 WS6 that dynoed 324 at the wheels. Its a 6 speed car and the only mod he had was a K&N filter. It is definitly possible to have a stock car dyno that high.

And to whoever said to buy an ls1 427 over the ls7, bad idea. the ls7 has a ton of advantages right out of the crate. You get what you pay for. LS7 has titanium rods, titanium valves (with the exhaust valve being sodium filled), dry sump oil system, and the heads. those heads are vastly different than the ls1 heads.the intake ports arent cathedral ports, they are squarish and they flow more than the ls1/6 design by A LOT! If I had the kind of money to buy that motor I would in a heartbeat without ever thinking twice about it.

nothingssafe

342 RWHP/352 RWTQ

That is one of the guys in my club did with a tune, rewire of the grounds, and K&N on his 2002. I can promise you that this is true, and that the tune was done by the by a very reputable tuner here in the southwest. Thats 400 flywheel from a 17% loss. Nope, not close to stock ratings. That is 75 hp over stock!


I did 274/319 in my 94 with a cutout with 109k on it. That makes 320 at the flywheel if you figure 17% drivetrain loss. You trying to tell me that a cutout gave me 45 hp? No way. Thats not stock? Well with the cutout closed it did 268/318. That is still 313 at the flywheel, 38 over stock.


Fact is GM underrates their engines. No question about it.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

You guys are crazy... if you think an aftermarket 427ci LS1 is as good as a LS7 then think again.... the LS7's are insane motors. Titanium rods and other hi-tech stuff in the motor along with a dry sump oil system, 370cfm heads, etc, etc, etc..... all passing emissions. There has been some talk on www.ls1tech.com and a bone stock z06 put down 440RWHP. With just headers the car is up to 492RWHP. With headers, CAI, a tune, and a cam these cars are gonna go over 600RWHP and still be VERY streetable. Go try and do that with an aftermarket 427ci LS1 with LS6 or other ported heads on it.... good luck.

TexasLT1

I don't see why everyone is talking about the LS7 when everyone in this thread knows its just a pipedream that very few on this board could ever afford, let alone accomplish.


and GTA91, you're insane if you think a CAI, tune, and any street cam is going to give ANY car 118 hp AT THE WHEELS.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

That's just it though... I'm not the crazy one. These cars are going to do 600RWHP with headers, CAI, tune, and a cam. Just sit back and watch. Hell, just go read the posts on www.ls1tech.com See for yourself. Their stock one did 440 or so, then over 490 with just headers. A cam, tune, and CAI will pick up the extra 108RWHP to get to 600. Last year the CTS-VR race cars were running a LS7 destroked to 35X ci and with the STOCK LS7 heads, a cam, headers, and tuning they were seeing 575RWHP or so.... surely the extra 70 cubes of the 427 will make 25 more RWHP Sit back and watch.... just sit back and watch it happen. If you still don't think its possible, then what exactly do you think the LS7's 370cfm heads are capable of with those mods??

TexasLT1

first off, yes I suck at mental math



anyway, notice that I said "street" cam. Anyone can throw a full on race cam into a car and call it a street car, but it sure as hell isn't going to drive like one. Of course the CTS engine made almost 600 whp, its a race engine. But yeah, 370cfm heads do go a long way I'll wait to eat crow until its been done though

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

I know what you mean, but a 230*ish cam seems to be about the norm right now in 346ci LS1's so I'm thinking a 250* or so cam in a 427 LS7 would be more than fine and I'd bet a paycheck it will hit 600RWHP like that. A full race solid roller LS7 is gonna put down some insane #'s

ME Leigh

Recent reports from several sources have found that the LS7 actually makes upward of 550hp.

hondastyle

wow in that case I should grab the t56 put in on my honda since the drivetrain loss is only going to be 18% with this tranny vs my stock honda tranny right?

MrDude_1

theres so much crap in this thread that i dont even know where to begin.

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Like what?

Ian_F

I agree with GTA91, the LS7 will hit 600 horsepower pretty easily. Look at the big picture and pick apart all the small things that make making HP easier. Sodium filled valves, light weight pistons, titanium rods, improved windage, dry sump oil system and heads that make big block flow numbers look not so great!

the heads are going to be the reason it will make so much power so easily. yeah, the LS1 headed 427's make a ton of power, but just think what LS7 heads will do for the top end! and because its a bigger motor with MUCH better heads, it will be able to take a much larger cam than the LS1/6/2. The LS7 will definitly top the 600 HP barrier with a cam and a tune. Then the realy problem will be getting the damn thing to hook!

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Some basics from what I've read about the LS7 found in various sources.

It made about 443hp at the wheels BONE STOCK with only 50 miles on the motor.

It has 12* intake ports. *motortrend.

427cubic inches.

If the 370cfm flow numbers are accurate then this motor has tons of potential left in.

They changed the oil and put headers on the car and it made 492hp at the wheels.

Stock cam is around 210/230 duration.

I'm no genious but I know for a fact that the LS7 has PLENTY of potential left in it. I really do think it will be possible to pull 600hp at the crank out of it no problem. And it'll happen very soon.

Its a great motor, wish I could afford to swap it in.

http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/2006/LS7.shtml

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Ian and 89GTA... couldn't have said it better myself. If everyone thought GM rewrote the book of small blocks with the LS1 and LS6... then they ain't seen nothing yet....



LS7

wm_sorg

The price will come down eventually. I wonder if it is a direct fir replacement for my LS1 other than the PCM?

1bdbrd

iTrader: (1)

have fun when you drop a sleeve in that 5.7 based 427...

and as for not worth it? ha. a facotry warranty on a 500hp engine is not worth it? a local guy dropped a sleeve in his mti built 427 and they gave him a big middle finger. thats wonderful custoemr serivce isnt it?

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I know a few guys here in St. Louis that run big cube LSX motors... Doc Otis runs a 427 (5.7 based) and he's had more than a few issues with it... I think they are all ironed out now, but he went thru hell for awhile. It runs in the high 8's or low 9's now I believe. Another local guy has a 422 with no issues that I know of... yet. He's currently the fastest N/A LSX/6spd in the country. There are a few others around here too... 427's seem to have issues though.

ME Leigh

Have you guys seen the flow numbers for stock LS7 heads. @ 28" water 384 cfm @.650" lift @.300" they already flow 244.8cfm

Can you say tons of potential!!!!!!!!!!!

GTA91

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, that was pretty much my point... just add full exhaust, nice cam, cold air and a tune and shoot for 600RWHP

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

i know that the LS2 heads will bolt to an LS1 block.. i wonder if the LS7 heads will bolt to the LS2. if so.. they will work with LS1.. BUT im sure you would need the LS2 or LS7 intake to make it all work.