I bought a used high mileage ls1 for $800 lastnight.It is semi complete from a 2000 camaro that was auto.I didnt get the ecu nor the power steering,a/c,altenator,starter and flywheel since they were all being reused by the seller.but I did get everything else top to bottom with the full harness.

As excited as I am that I finally have a ls1..Im more nervous of doing this swap.Ive had bad luck with building my hsr and having tuning issues and problems with the 700r4.

Looking at all the threads of you guys doing your swaps gives me great hope..Im just concerned of how far my mechanical skills will get me through it all.Im great for wiring..custom fab work for car audio and basic mechanics but going from one sbc to another is not hard at all.

I have the current setup in my sig right now.My goal is to put in the ls1 and convert to 6spd and be anywhere over the 400rwhp with full a/c.

Here come some questions that Im not sure of for the swap itself. 1) is there a decent y pipe the will go in the factory location so that I can reuse my catback? 2)On the transams.. can all of my guages be used and accurate? 3)Do I need a seperate harness to run for the 6spd and for dbd2 plug? 4) with the 6spd swap would I need a new driveshaft or is the factory unit reusuable?

I know I will have alot to read up on and more questions will arrise but those are the main concerns I have.Over the winter will be the perfect time to research how I want to build this motor to reach my goals of a quick sleeper of a beat up looking transam for the next season.

Thanks for any insight guys and im looking forward to being apart of this section of the forum soon

 

If your car is carbed, stick with carb, otherwise, there are great write ups here that can aid in getting it together if you are patient.

 

I'll come right out and say it, You have no idea what you got yourself into. I mean that as a good thing not to scare you. You have no idea how much fun an ls based motor will be in a 3rd gen. I did the same thing more or less how you are doing it now. Bought pieces one at a time, not sure of exactly what i wanted, put it together myself, and two years later I have a running car. Have fun it will be worth it in the end.

Read up more on the subject and you'll find all the answers you need.
1.) most people fab up their own y-pipe
2.) yes you can use your gauges
3.) auto harness are different from manual
4.) use your same driveshaft for both auto and manual

 

Read the sticky at the top of the page first. Alot of those questions are covered in it

Next, Id make sure your high mileage engine is worth using before buying anything more for it. Find a used starter that works and do a compression check and a leakdown test. If those are good, pop the valve covers and pan to check for sludge

 

its a long and in-depth swap (and i'm still not done, but thats another story), but i don't think most around here who have finished the swap regret it in the least. as with any swap, read all you can and be ready with the wallet for all the little things

 

I dont regret doing mine. you will love the lsx platform and they are comming out with better stuff for them every day

 

Wow thanks for all the quick responses.Ive spent a better part of my night already reading through the stickies lol...soo much for sleep.

So far the motor has been compression checked and all cylinders are between 150-155 psi.I havent taken anything off yet to see the condition of the motor internally.The previous owner stated that he would have some smoke on cold startup..so I figure Im in for either valves or rings..eitherway..a rebuild will solve that regardless.

I wasnt aware that the auto and manual ls1 harnesses are different though,thats news to me..looks like Ill be running new wires or repinning some things since my harness came from a auto camaro.Im still not clear on the obd2 plug but I can always cut one from any car and pin that too.

And soo glad I got it..this build will take its sweet time,Im not going to jump the gun in excitement.Cant wait for the better gas mileage with more power than my 383hsr.

 

do the swap and dont look back

 

Its a whack of work but very worthwhile once your done you will love it.


1. Yes if you run a manual you can buy a y-pipe from Hawks that fits the HAWKS headers. Its worth it for the Hawks longtubes and pretty much a must do mod IMO

2. Yes but plan on some tweeks to the PCM parameters or a baker electronic box or two otherwise

3. No you can re-pin and redo an auto harness to support a manual but you will need some new connectors for the trans

4. Stock driveshaft from a 700R4 fitment is the same for a t56


Good luck

 

The 383 in your sig should make 400rwhp easily if its tuned right...why would you swap that out for a high mileage engine that you don't even know the condition of the bottom end? What are your problems with the 383...not being a jerk or anything but sometimes this lsx craze seems to interfere with common sense.

 

Its not a craze. Its a sickness!

 

i've got it bad. haven't even finished the 5.3 swap and i'm already planning a maggie'd 5.7/6.0. there's no cure!

 

A "max effort" 383 TPI/Stealth ram would barely net 400 rwhp w/not so great street manners, bad fuel economy, narrow power band and tons of gremlins.

LSX platforms make 400 rwhp+ cam only w/great gas mileage, street manners, and use-able power bands.

Just saw a LS3 w/headers, Texas Speed cold air intake and mild cam kit make 485rwhp w/Stock Heads/Intake Manifold/TB!!!!

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/dynamo...0rwhp-sae.html

 

I would suggest checking out orr98rocz's camaro build that he had a while back...195 eliminators9(street port),230 cam,stealth ram,700r4...went 11.4's @119 in 2000 da with only 3.43 gears...also with maf set-up..(remember when people said you could'nt run 11's with maf's). That car dynoed 400+ at the wheels with a cam more for nitrous and was very streetable and with no gremlins...its not hard.The guy knows how to tune..thats the issue with half the sbc's on this site.Its too easy to make 500-550 crank horse on a sbc these days with the quality of the new heads that are out...The thing with lsx engines is they are more idiot proof ...you can over cam them/run bad rod ratios ect and still make power...sbc's you need to do a little more homework on the build...BTW LS3 heads and LS1 heads are two diffrent things...you are not making 480 to the wheels with cam only LS1'S and the ls3 heads will not work on a ls1 block so that is a pointless comparision...

 

400 whp with cam only, usually includes bolt ons, and bolt on ls1 cars can put 350 to the wheels.

 

I frequented the TPI/Alterative intake forums and the majority of builds w/heads, cams, modified intakes and plenums are sadly below 400rwhp. There are only a handful of TPI/SR/MiniRam engine making more than 400rwhp whereas 400rwhp is the minimum that a cammed LS1 will make.

You said it best, it's just easier to make power with an LS1 or as you stated “idiot proof.” No extensive porting or modification, no voodoo/secret chip burning, no smoking/oily intakes, etc.

Orr has a sick build but I can find examples of fast bolt-ons LS1 w/stock internals in the 10's

I suspect the OP gave up on the TPI just like I did, smart move. OP, good luck with your build and post progress pics

P.S. I said "LSX" which encompasses LS1, LS2, LS6, LS3's and its derivatives

 

Be careful with the rwhp claims on cammed ls1's...more are making 400rwhp now with larger cams but are losing low end..these 400+ rwhp cars are not really much faster than the 380rwhp cars a couple years ago...besides dyno numbers are becoming the biggest joke on the internet..10 sec cam only cars are usually stripped down steep gears at negative da's...look I get how good the lsx platform is,I know what the times are and power claims that people are making..really the past few years is where the platform has really taken off. The op wants 400rwhp and he has it or close to it in his sig...plus you could take that 383 put a single plane bump the cam up and make some really sick power.. his heads support 550+ crankhp..I could see if he was starting from scratch but he has a good set-up now..probably needs a good tuner..

 

BTW this forum is loaded with poorly matched set-ups with cheap cylinder heads compounded with poor tuning.. there are quite a few sbc on other sites that make 450-500 rwhp,running great times, that are built right with good cylinder heads/intakes/ tuning ect..yes I know there are plenty of 500+ rwhp na lsx's,and you're going to pay for it too... again not trying to be rude or nothing just the cars on this site in general are not that great....what happens when the average owner is 16-24 years of age in college with no money.....the same thing is happening to the c4 scene now

 

To Don..I totally understand your concern.The setup I have should be damn near Orr's numbers.But sadly for where I live..the lack of tuning experience and lack of tuners period for tpi is soo scarce that I just cant afford to try to have it dialed in to make the 400rwhp I seek.The combo is extremely pick on vacumm and air temps,and trans setup that it has grown very frustrating and taken away from the excitement of even starting it up at all.
I really had hopes of using a traditional sbc tpi based that can hang with a ls1 and its close to it but so far off aswell.

The lsx provides me with the same power goals with less invested in the motor itself and more invested in the swap..but the better gas mileage would and reliability while still making over 350rwhp is going to be my focus this time around.Ive already spent too much time trying to get it to be worth the money I invested than I have driving it..with no marginal gains to keep me wanting to further chase down culprits.

By going to an ls1/t56 with intake small cam and fresh rebuild and exhaust will have me close to 350rwhp with a good tune that i can take the car many places and have dyno tuned cheaply.Sadly no one wants to even touch an tpi computer here for a dyno tune even though I have an ostrich tuner onboard.

Going carb is not an option I want to take aswell..granted yes..Ill gain more power and torque just going to carb..for how much i tend to beat on the car and like long drives..gas mileage isnt there either.And my 383 was my 3rd motor swap in that car to try to acheive that goal.

If ya cant beat em..join em.Ls1 will be my next..and last motor swap I build for a fun semi quick thirdgen.Im not going all out to build it.just freshen it up..slight cam..intake and exhaust,switch to 6spd and enjoy the car as it was meant to be.Ill sell the 383 if i can and put that towards the ls1 swap so it will serve a purpose lol.

With an ls1 thirdgen..I know power isnt everything.I dont need a dyno queen motor..compared to a gen1 sbc..every lil bit of power and torque you can squeeze out of it is needed.If we had a race of my 383 vs a stock ls1..I can promise you that my 383 will not come out ontop because of all the small gremlins it has that tend to come n go.Keep in mind that my 383 is a map car and not a maf so its even harder to fine tune.

 

if this wasn't asked already, here it goes, do you need your set up to pass emissions? the exhaust part, I've read most do their own Frankenstein chop job and end up with good results, while others shell out the money to have an exhaust shop do the work...

 

Oh and no offense is taken It good to see that someone asked why Im doing this to begin with after reading what I have lol.

Now since i can re-pin the harness for manual trans that means i would have to get a 4th gen pedal assembly aswell.I read somewhere that the pcm requires clutch pedal in regards to reverse lockout?

And I have a feeling I need to join ls1tech,this motor has soo many sensors and alot of them arent plugged in so i dont know where all the connectors go to label anything and begin cleaning it up.Where can a find a motor diagram of all the sensor locations?Im printing off all the info I find and making notes of parts for the swap and best route for wiring.

Also,I see that there is a 3wire collant temp sensor that can be used to do both the guage readout and cts for the ecu,what would I hookup the oil pressure gauge to so that it works on the factory guage.I havent come across this yet through my searches.Would i have to take my sbc oil pressure sender and tap it in somewhere?

 

so far the answer for emissions is no..so far im going to use the stock manifolds on the motor an make y pipe to go to the factory single hi flow 3" cat back lt1 exhaust i have on the car.id love to use the hawks long tube headers but my car is already lowered 2" so ground clearance is an issue.

 

You can build a LSx harness to control the SBC if tuning is an issue

LSx manifolds arent so bad. They're not as good as big primary LTs, but they are the best flowing manifolds GM has designed. You can forget about the restrictive log style SBC manifolds

 

I'm sorry to hear of the problems your having....I saw your set-up and thought it was pretty cool and would like to have seen it run...but I see your point about things and wish you well on your project.

 

Id like to see it run 100% more often too...it was too picky on when it wanted to really perform.As for using the ls1 harness and ecu to run the sbc then Ill already be halfway there to do the complete ls1 swap.its the wiring that takes the most time..sitting the engine and trans is easier than making it all work lol.

 

You might consider buying an LS1 drop-out complete with whatever transmission you want. Piecing together accessories, PCM, harness, transmission, etc., will nickle & dime you to death.

 

Thats what I wanted but its still hard to find a complete ls1/t56 with harness that isnt drastically over priced or so far away that I cant actually go get it.For now I may just get a 4l60E,rebuild the engine and shrink the harness to suit my needs and drop the motor in while I keep hunting for a decent priced t56 in my area.

 

Ok guys so here is where I start asking some more silly questions.Ive decided for now to run the ls1 with stock exhaust manifolds,a 4l60e,maybe ls6 intake,rebuild the heads and port them,some decent cam and drive it for the time being while I save and then consider a more performance overhaul.

First question in regards to the 4l60e..is it a direct bolton to replace the 700r4..as in the trans mount and shifter linkage.Ive read somewhere that I would have to move the linkage one hole closer for it to work properly?And do they use a kickdown cable like the 700r4?

Secondly since I plan on using the stock manifolds and making my own y pipe...how choke would the motor be if I did a slight bum up in cam and intake..Im still hoping to net near 350rwhp if possible for a small build up.What would be the best plan of attack for cam with the stock heads?

Third, my motor is a 2000 ls1..do the run on map or maf..this has been unclear to me since I dont have the original pcm.Would I need to get a maf?

And lastly lol, are sbc mini starters the same bolt pattern and flywheel tooth compatible as ls1s, I already have a mini starter on my sbc and if it works..no sense in buying another one for the ls1?

From here I am going to start ordering lil odds and end parts to kick start my swap during winter..throttle cable,engine mounts,power steering hoses etc. And that will keep me busy.i want to be prepared as much as possible before I dive into the deep end lol.Thanks in advance

 

The 4L60E is similar in external dimensions as the 700R4/4L60. You will have to move the crossmember mount back with either a custom fab piece or aftermarket. No TV cable to mess with, everything is electronic. Your stock trans cooler hardlines will fit perfectly in the new trans once you swap the trans fittings over to the old style. The new stuff is quick connects and they leak like crazy

LSx manifolds are as close to a factory cast iron shorty header as you will find. For manifolds they are awesome. Not LT header awesome, but not bottle necks like you'd find on SBCs

All LSx's use both MAP and MAF sensors. Stock they rely heavily on the MAF with the MAP as backup. A good tuner can program a custom OS so you can eliminate the MAF, but for a mostly stock install I wouldnt bother

SBC/LSx starters are not interchangable unfortunately, but the new starters are very light compared to the old stuff. Stock LS1s are 3-5lbs heavier than your mini. Newer truck LSx starters are even smaller without compromising cranking power. If one doesnt come with your engine you can usually pick them up for $50-75 on 'tech

Id recommend making an excel spreadsheet of all your "little part" expenses so you dont buy the same thing twice. Good luck with it!

 

I don't know about stock shifters (been too long), but I unbolted my B&M brackets from the TH700 and bolted them onto the 4L60E. I didn't even do any adjustments.

The Hawks LS1/4L60E swap crossmember is a nice piece. No modifications necessary to the chassis or crossmember.

 

Thats what I plan on using is the hawks bracket to make things easier.From everything else I read..I have to swap the tailshaft from my 700r4 to the 4l60e..Is that still correct?

 

The tailshaft housing from the TH700 won't fit the 4L60E. You need an f-body tailshaft housing for the torque arm mount. If your 4L60E came from something else, you're going to have to find a proper housing.

 

Well after looking at the ecm pinouts I have come to realise that my harness is not actually for a auto trans but for a t56.not a huge deal but some wires dont exactly match the color as described for specific pin location but Ill assume the function remains the same.I will have to rewire and shirk down the harness as it is..and now re-add some that i wasnt accounting for.

I can get 4l60e cheap.. finding a fbody tailshaft from that yr may be slighty difficult.That will be on my list of parts to hunt for aswell

 

after more searching,i read that earlier 4l60es had 4 bolt tailhousings and can be swapped with the 700r4 housing.later models had 6 bolt thus cant b used.

i also dont see where im supposed to wire my factory oil pressure gauge and wondering what you all have done for that.i know there is a cts thats 3 wire and allows me to use my stock gauge.other than that im cluesless for oil pressure guage unless i drill and tap the old tpi sending unit somewhere

 

After reading through this thread the thought of swapping to LSx has been even more set in stone in my mind. Seems like the debate always has the LS with the better reply. And with around 10MPG more with the LSx at the equivalent RWHP it pays for itself rather quickly.

 

its very true.dont get me wrong..i got a big soft spot for a nasty sbc carbed motor but..for mpg and driveability..more and more the lsx shines in that area.yes a traditional sbc is cheaper to build in our cars..no need for all these swap brackets..wiring etc and they will make sick numbers..but for the 3 motors ive built over the yrs and always kept wanting more power still without having surge issues..or barely making vacuum for brakes.a simple intake and cammed lsx puts me right where my current 383 sits.the potential is just unreal from a ls1...i cant imagine what the rest of you with deeper pockets do when building ls2s..ls7 or boosted lsx...just insane fast turdgens lurking around beating up c6s and beyond.