Today I'm going to pick up a LS1 shortblock. My plan is to slowly build this over the next season or two since I just got the 355 in late last season. I was going to build a boost motor but I decided to go N/A. I'm thinking around 12:5:1, AFR 215cc mongoose heads, one of the 90mm intakes, and I'm still undecided on the cam. I'm looking to get atleast 500whp. AFR says these heads will support in excess of 600 crank hp. My question is whats a common cam running numbers like this on similar combos. I'd like to have a 7000rpm motor. I'm new to the LSX world and I want to do it right the first time so help me out. This will be going in my 89 IROC with a 4L60e and be a mostly strip car.

 

600 HP, a 4L60 will not be fun, all my buddies seem to go through them like women and clothes, the rest sounds like you are ready to get down though! LOL

 

Even with a built one? I guess I shouldve mentioned that, I was planning on going with a pro street elite from Dana, http://www.700r4l60e.com/store/produ...&cat=18&page=1 its supposed to be good for 850 crank hp.

 

From my personal experience with friends, they are all on a hour glass of time, they all run out. They work for a while when you build them and dump all the green into them, but they still just dont hold as long as other trans, so if you plan on any competition, they are not the trans to go with. A 4L80 is a beast option, will last forever.

 

I get nervous about the old school bellhousing on an LS1. You're already down one bolt, then you put more stress on it.

 

I have seen several only use the 4 outers with no issue, but i still use as many as possible.

 

Check out this thread The "recipe" to 500 rwhp with heads and cam, has tons of info....
http://guerragroup.com/2000TA.htm

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...heads-cam.html

 

I liked the idea of the 4L80 since its geared like a TH400 with OD, but I havent been able to find much info on swapping these into our cars.

Z28FAST thanks for those links, deffinatly helps me put in perspective what I need to get where I want.

 

I have the pro street elite 700r4 and it is very solid! dana i would say is one the transmission builders in the country. my transmission drives like it was stock too.

 

Well I got my shortblock home last night, first time I've really got to look at one of these things, how different they are from the genI design.


As for the transmission issue I still dont know what I'm going to use, but I have plenty of time to figure that out. Still undecided on a cam, mostly who to get it from. I am pretty dead set on the AFR 215cc mongoose's, anyone have any opinions on SCAT vs Eagle for forged rotating assemblies?

 

If you are going to purchase a new set of heads from AFR I would have your entire motor decided at that point and have them spec you a cam, because they know whats best for their heads.

 

wow. you're missing A LOT from a short block... its going to nickle and dime you to death getting all the pieces, good luck.. hit up LS1tech for most of the parts, i find they are the cheapest over there.

 

Then thats what I'll do, the cam is the only part thats really up in the air at this point.

I got the front and rear covers, I need an oil pan and I didnt want the cam, what else am I missing? All I really wanted was the block itself, I'm pulling stock internals and selling them.

 

lifter trays, lifters, lifter tray bolts, oil pressure sender, knock sensors, cam retainer, cam retainer bolts, hard line coolant steam lines, coolant line bolts, 24x or 54x reluctor gear, cam gear, crank gear, balancer, crank balancer bolts, serpentine system(not cheap), oil pump, oil pump pick up tube, pick up tube bolt, oil level sender, rear main seal (possibly, cant see the rear of the block)

and this is what i can just see by the 1 picture... hope you got this for 200$ or less... like i said, a lot missing

and thats just the short block... the top end is another ballpark..

and you DONT need the FAST 90/92 or 102 intake to make power. LS6 intake will flow very well into the 450+ hp mark.


the gaskets on these engines are a tad on the expensive side.. ONLY use the GM MLS head gaskets.. DONT use felpro head gaskets.. you can use the felpro intake gaskets or felpro anything else.. just dont use their head gaskets..

here is also a quick tip.. use exhaust valve seals on ALL 16 valves.. the LS1 exhaust valve seals, seal a little tighter.. same price as the intake version.

if you need any info on other things, or cheap places to get parts, let me know. Ive built 3 LS1's so far.. and now im building an LT1 yeah going backwards a bit,

 

Not even Cometic?

 

You dont need a fast 90/92/102 but they make more power than a ls6 any day

 

 

Get a blown 5.3 for next to nothing for all the missing parts your short block doesnt have.

 

Thats all I'm really conserned with, the rest I was planning on buying new/aftermarket. Like I said all I really wanted is the block this is going to be my project for the next couple of seasons and I wanted to go from the ground up on it. I just put my 355 in late last season so I'm in no rush, just need an engine to play with

 

That aint a bad idea, problem is I have so much trouble finding anything lsx related around here, and anytime there is one people want ridiculous money.

 

yeah. only after 4500 on an N/A car.. they help out more on turbo or super charged cars.. plenty of graphs on tech to show that..

 

you can.. but why spend double the price on these when the GM ones are perfect? ive also seen a few people not like the cometic's.

 

I'm using Cometic gaskets and have zero complaints, and I've put it through it's paces last summer.

 

nothing but cometics go on our local guys buildups....BIG boost or nitrous motors, saying not to run them is ridiculous.

 

point to where i said "do not run cometics"??? please show me.. i said you can.. i also said i wouldnt because they are in most cases double the price of the GM gaskets.. i said ONLY GM gaskets .. meaning as opposed to the Felpro's since i was talking about Felpro vs GM

dont mis-quote guy

 

good.. and you're probably one of the 98% who will never have problems and like them..

 

What's more expensive, buying Cometics which are twice the price of GM gaskets and not having to upgrade them if you decide to add spray or boost....


Or....buying GM gaskets, then later deciding to spray or add boost, then having to take the heads off and replace with Cometics, buy new head bolts, and re-install...

 

if everyone thought this way when building an engine.. we would also all run a solid roller cam, and $1500 jesel rockers.. with a 427 and a dry sump...

ya know just in case i want to spin the sh*t out of the engine up to 8k+ and road race it too..

build it for what you want it to do..

 

Yea except we're talking about what, $100 difference maybe on gaskets (it's been a while since I bought mine), as opposed to the price of the parts you're trying to compare my comparison to


I'm just sayin'. Spend the extra coin on good gaskets.

 

point is the GM gaskets can handle the power he is looking for... just trying to save people money if they dont know what to buy.. make every dollar count, it needs to these days... we're going to spend most our money on GAS.. (damn OPEC)

i think we are both done pissing in the OP's thread...

back on topic...

 

 

If your only spinning your LSx motors to 4500 rpm you must have some really crappy results...Plus the OP said he wanting a 7K motor...

I just do not understand why you would build a motor with a forged rotating assembly, AFR heads, 12.5:1 CR and not use good head gaskets.....Besides how do you know he wont need a specialized thickness at those tolerances?

 

either you cant read or you are just skimming.. point to where i said you or I are only spinning the engine to 4500 rpms??

sorry, are you the person that needs to shift every gear at red line on the street?? how often is the engine seeing 7k? do you know where the life of the engine rpms are spent at?

i mentioned 4500 rpms once.. and what i said was that those intakes start to pick up over 4500 rpms.. and depending what is done to the engine.. those gains are minimal... we are talking 15rwhp on a stock style LS1 intake and even less compared to the LS6. if you are looking simply for PEAK HP.. as to swing your dong around and brag about a dyno number.. then fine

7k is easily done by simply by changing to Katech Rod bolts for one.. using a healthy cam.. as done by myself and many others .. i actually took mine to 7200 and was making power to 6900..

sure I could spend $1,100 on an intake manifold and another $4-500 on the the throttle body.. and get what.. maybe another 15-20rwhp peak? to me $1,600 doesnt equal that..


i find it funny everyone thinks they need expensive parts because they saw someone else do it and they must be right because their post count is high or their join date is 10 years old.. and that gives them E-credentials..


by all means guys.. go, buy, spend, spend some more... your money.. sorry for helping save it.. just letting people know, some goals are achievable without spending high $$$ on it.

done with this conversation... i think we need to let the OP have his thread back, so, this is my last post on it..

 

Wow, alot happened since I last checked in lol. Honestly guys I wont even be thinking about head gasket's till ATLEAST next year, but now I know.

I figured 7k wasnt hard to reach since stock LS1's rev to just about 6. Like stated before this is going to mainly a strip only car, but seeing as the close track is 2+ hours away I'd like to be able to drive it on the street on a nice day.

Also like I said I am new to the genIII world so these arent my area. I am looking for atleast 500whp with this set-up so we are talking a good 600+ at the crank, are the LS6 intakes capable of this? Also the reason I want to go with a forged bottom end, AFR's, etc, etc is because I know how I am. For instance I just got my 355 HSR, RHS's, 268/280 cam, etc dropped in and I'm already building another motor and the 355 isnt even tuned! No matter what I always want to get more out of my set-ups so I'd like for it to be built to take whatever I decide to throw at it.

I've read that stock LS cranks can be good to 800hp and I've also read stories of people breaking them well below that. Like I said I want to do it right the first time and not spend money on things later on down the line that I could've got in the first place.

 

I can not see a ls6 intake making it to 500 rwhp n/a. And also unless you have something installed wrong I have seen the ls cranks hold a ton of hp.

 

Thats what I kind of figured.

 

Just realized today that my son's S10 Blazer with 5.3 bored to 5.7 & 4L60E has this installed:




It says "GM" and "15765623". It has been trimmed, Googling it indicates it is a 4L80E piece. It's being held upside down in this photo, so the bolts on the top in the photo go to the engine oil pan. Where you had small screws to hold on a tin cover on old school turbo hydros, you have beefy bolts on this. There is a pic of one here (scroll about half way down the page): http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L...4L80E_Swap.htm

Don't pay that much for one, many other hits came up in the $65 range.

The Blazer swap was done by a shop in Casper, WY, for a PO. We were told it is a Hughes transmission.

 

Nothing wrong with cometics, just dont try to reuse them

 

I'm confused, its a dust cover?

 

It fits in the same place as the dust covers used to go on older turbo hydros, but becomes a structural part of the bell housing when mounting an older trans to an LSx. Lets you pick up the bolts in the oil pan. Much better than just 5 bolts on an older TH bell housing when mounted to an LSx engine. You'll have to drill & tap the bolt holes to mount it to the tranny.

 

Too late, already did.

 

Hope they dont leak then

 

Thanks for the tip, I may just end up going with an older th-400. Finally got my polylock's for the 355 so time to get that tuned.