I've been stricken with the mod sickness.



I have been contemplating trying to go with either Pocket's blower kit or a front mount single turbo kit, but I'm starting to lean more towards the turbo side just because that's what I had wanted to do originally when I did the swap.


This isn't 100% set in stone yet, but depending on the projected cost I think I have a good chance of being able to pull this off this winter. I've got some stuff on my car that I can sell to make up a good chunk of money towards the turbo kit, and I have some friends that are turbo geeks with DSM's, I'm hoping to use some of their knowledge in my swap. I'm looking to go for a similar setup as Grifter's IROC-Z, and actually I'm really interested to see how much his kit will sell for if he markets it.


My first few questions are:

-What size turbo am I going to need to use to make good power from 3,000-7,000 and hit 600rwhp in a 6.0L? a/r, exhaust housing size, etc...

-Will 42# injectors be sufficient for a 600rwhp turbo car? If not, would 60# be the way to go?

-Will a single Walbro 255 pump be sufficient? If not, do you go with a boost-a-pump or add a second pump in the tank?

-Will -6an fuel line be sufficient?





My plans are to sell my complete exhaust setup after summer ends, so I can still enjoy the car a while longer, and use the money towards a turbo kit. I'm also selling off my audio system to help pay for some of it too, and I have some other odds and ends in the garage I can sell. I think I can probably pay for 80% of the stuff I need from selling parts before I dig into my own pocket.

 

60# injectors should be used.

-6 an line is good enough. Single walbro with boost a pump kit SHOULD beable to feed it. Some mustang guys have done it. Else there is a Bosch 044 single pump thats suppose to flow a true 340 lph which is much more than a walbro.
It seems tho the higher the pressure the less the pumps flow, so a single walbro on a high voltage kit with a -8 line instead may be a better bet.

For a turbo, something like a GT4202 will work well. thats a 74mm turbo. My buddy had a bolt on LS1 with LS6 intake and i think LS6 cam, and he ran that turbo to 550-600whp on stock bottom end. Ran great, 10.50's at 130mph.

S400 from borg warner could work as well. Either T6 or T4 likely will work ok but the larger T6 stuff i think is abit overkill and will hurt spool. T4 with a .96 or 1.00 housing will likely have alittle more backpressure in the pipe but shouldnt cause a problem and it will spool quicker.

 

Do you think a Holset HX40 or HX52 would be good for an LS2?

And what cam is good for a turbo? Should I look at going custom grind or is there some off the shelf cams that work?

 

http://www.speedinc.com/turbo.cfm
http://www.speedinc.com/catagory.cfm...in%20/%20Heads , third box has 4 choices
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1424&sb=0

 

You wont need much cam on a LS2 to make 600whp. You can do that with a stock cam or a mild cam like one of the single pattern 220 grinds.

My friends LS2 with ported heads and a 230/236 grind made 800whp on 11 psi with twin 62's and E85 gas. On a mustang dyno. Thats getting it done! So you can go much smaller on the cam and make 600whp easily.

 

I'd go with twin 255s, or aeromotives new 340lph. -6 feed to a boost referenced reg and -6 back, or if you can swing it -8 feed and you won't have to worry about it.

I'll buy your headers for my iroc...no BS either let me know when you think you'll have them off.

 

42's will definatley be too small for your power goal. I have 42's in my maggie and only put down 440 to the tire. The injectors are at just shy of 90% duty cycle so I know they could not support too much more power reliably.

Good luck with your build!

 

Bluezee, I remember that you shaved your 317's but what compression ratio did you end up with?

 

i have been looking at injectors lately and i am considering 65lb or 83lb injectors to hit 650rwhp. so i would say you should at least go with 65lbs.

 

10.6:1

I think I'd be safe at 8psi.

 

I don't know how much you know about turbocharging but I bought this book not to long ago and I read it probably about 3 times over and still reference it occasionally.

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-...1450092&sr=1-5

 

cant wait to see this swap in person. im excited for you as im sure plenty of other tgo members. lmk if you need help with some of the labor. lol im not familar with "turbo's" yet...

 

you wanting a budget turbo? i have seen some good stuff on the new "magnum" turbo's that are replacing the masterpower units. 76mm with a .96ar should do it

 

Yea I want the whole setup to be budget

The $6,000 kit in the link posted earlier is like 2-3x what I am trying to budget for.

 

Linking to some things I'd found, and thought relevant to your query, isn't the same as endorsing them. What I endorse is selling your milled #317s and buy some not-milled #317s.
I'm thinking why not investigate smaller twins? Cheaper than a real T76, which seems to be sized just right for 5.2-5.4L V8s with head intake flow near the low 200s, not a relatively huge 6.0L, with head intake flow around 300 cfm.
I'm also thinking that this is worth a few minutes of your time:
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
Edit:
Playing with an LQ9,assuming an underdrive crank pulley and a transmission loss of 15%, you need 765 HP from your 5.97L, at sea level. With an A:F of 12:1, BSFC of 0.51:1, IC loss at 1.7 psi, VE imputs of 96% at 6000, 98% at 5500, 100% at 3800, & 98% at 3000, that works back to 352.5 HP at 5500 RPM.
Choosing a T76, you're off the right side of the map. A T80 is about as bad. A T88 looks good, but those are $$$$. A pair of T04E-60s looks good, but the 60-DBB option is obviously best for those imputs. Probably "Dual Ball Bearing"?, which is back to $$$$, but with much more future potential than a single T88.
If you're not at sea level, then your air is not at 14.7 psi, so they have a link to a table. For 2000', it's 13.67, which I figure is 93%.
93% of my assumed 305 HP at sea level ( ported 285 HP 5.33L ) is 284 HP. With my VE at 93 / 96 / 98 / 93, and my HP target at 650 HP, the T76 looks great. I need 17.4 psi, 2.27 bar, and I stay above 75% efficiency on the compressor map. 650 divided by 2.27 is a baseline of 287 HP, very close to the 284 I figured.
Have some fun with it!

 

depends on how much boost hes gonna run his heads should be ok for 10 psi and under... until he can get a REAL head(mast, tfs, afr..etc)

 

His heads are fine...they will do 1000 hp and be ok. stock 6.0's with 317's have done 650-700+whp, theres no reason to upgrade. My buddy's 6.0 LS2 based motor with ported 317's did 800whp on 11psi on E85 gas with alot of meth...easily figure 650-700 on pump 93 with alittle meth. Compression may be a touch high at 10.6 to 1 but its doable for lower boost and 650whp. Just run a decent cam and put good gas in it with some meth injection for safety, if necessary.

 

If you had a tubular k member like me lol....id say you could run a twin aps style system because it looks like you could fit a pair of 88's down there. But you need to go ahead and do this because me and tpi terror are talking about going to tx2k12 next year so u better get in gear and finish it and ride out

 

It has the Spohn k member

I gotta do something... I weighed the car last weekend and she's an obese 3,600 lbs without anyone in it. It would be easier to make more power than to rip the car apart on a diet.

 

A TC76 or TC78 from Jose at forcedinductions.com will completely make your goal powerwise. Stick with stock heads and even a stock ls1 intake. No need for expensive intakes or even an LS6 (which can be sold for a small profit over the ls1 intake cost) when the stock intake will do just fine. Go with a GT2-3 cam from lingenfelter or even just a stock ls6 cam. I'd still love to see what the LS9 cam can do given the similar specs to the GT2-3 and bottom dollar price. It will take some extra work to install but nothing major.

With the right mods, stock truck manifolds can fit in our cars as a guy on here (and here in kansas city) has done so with great success.

Keep it simple and you can make it cheap and effective.

 

LS9 is a blower cam, it wouldnt be that great with a turbo IMO. LS6 works ok tho.

 

pics of stock truck manifolds and a thirdgen? I mocked them up in my chassis, they go right in to the steering box. If your budget is 2k, I doubt you'll get it done. My last turbo setup with everything hand made, not counting induction since I built a blow thru carb and already had a pump to support it was $2750 and that was not counting a lot. You are looking at a dual walbro setup with -8 or dual -6 lines going to each fuel rail, boost referenced regulator, etc. I'd poke around tech for the people who have actually built one home fab style rather than opinions from others who have not. My buddy has a 6.0L with a blow thru carb(since we're carb guys ) that runs 10.2 @142 and leaves extremely soft since he can't footbrake it to build any boost with his 3200 stall and th400. Anything over 2200 rpm and the car pushes thru his rear brakes well before boost is built.

 

That sounds like me 10's at 140.

I have 1800 in my fuel system from dual pumps to lines to the fuel rails and regulator. It aint cheap but it will support 1000+hp.

(I still think for you one of the big 340 lph pumps they make now will drop into the tank and work fine all the way to 700whp.) Should be easier to do than dual pumps

The turbo side fabbed up yourself with a cheaper turbo can be done for less than or about 2K. I have about 3500 in my twin setup from manifolds to turbo to wastegates to intercooler to BOV and all piping in between. A single would have been alot cheaper.

But all the other stuff adds up from fuel system to heat sheilding and oil lines, sensors, etc.

 

Wheelie vids ftmfw!!!

 

I'm in the process of mine now too. I'd run a TC78 If i were you. Excellent warranty, compact ect. For goals of 600hp would be easly in your reach. 1.15 A/R. Theres a guy on ls1truck that was running a tc76 on his RCSB in 4x4 running (i think) around 10.60's. Screen name stock48. As for a cam Isky tripple 12 (212/212,112lsa). A lot of good reviews about it. Maybe something for you to check into. I'll be running one.

 

Id think the 1.15 a/r would be too much for a 6 speed car....

 

http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...egory_Code=C31

The originals IMO of LS turbocharging recommend the cam so much that they discontinued their own grind of similar specs for it.

Not saying its the end all be all of turbo cams but for the price I think it ranks up there.

The guy is a member here. MaxxMitchell is his screen name and hes posted pics of the overall engine bay before but for some reason refuses to share how he got it to work. He just won't do it. But trust me, I have seen his car, seen the manifolds in person and know it can fit. I think with a tubular k member it would relieve a bit of the modifications needed but not sure what else he did..

 

To be honest, you can turbo any cam and still make power...just wont be optimal thats all. LS9 being wide duration split but on a wide LSA still has low overlap so it can still work with a turbo even tho it was meant for the blower.

For 500-600whp, you can pretty much run whatever cam you want...all the typical LS grinds with few deg splits and wider lsa's seem to work well with boost.

Virgina Speed has 5 different turbo grinds for all kinds of motor sizes from mostly stock to big cubic inch. Their VTC1 is all you need in a 6.0 to make that power, and thats the smallest cam they have.

Heres one done by the great Harold Brookshire of Ultradyne who spec'd all the Lunati Voodoo grinds for Lunati. Designed for a stock headed 6.0L looking for 6-15psi and peak around 5800 rpm with perfect driveability. Mild cam but works with a turbo and will make power for sure.

 

read:
http://www.forcedinductions.com/help.htm

about all the info you need is there

 

All exceptional points.

I agree that with these engines most people won't see a big power difference from one cam to another. Although I did read an interesting thread on tech a long time ago about using wider overlaps and shorter lobe seperation angles to gain power due to a cleaner combustion chamber. Its something that in my very limited knowledge and experience would think would be needed with a street car setup but I do enjoy against the grain thinking.

 

call/pm pat g on tech and you'll have your answer on a cam....... for the turbo id look for a 76-81mm turbo and unsure on the exhaust a/r to go with.. if it was an auto id say 1.10-1.30 but the 6 speed wouldnt stay in boost long.. so id say go with twin 64's like i plan on doing one day... you have the room.. just use a stock type of manifold and make it work and retain your a/c

 

I try to advise people against talking to PatG. A really good friend of mine built a 408 iron block with worked over Trick Flow 225 heads and all that jazz and went with a PatG cam. He paid extra and waited forever for Pat to spec out a cam that turned out to be an off the shelf grind. This custom cam nonsense just isn't worth it IMO.

 

I had pat g. Spec the cam and had geoff@eps make the camshaft and it is exactly what I ordered. Ill have my tuner spec my next camshaft for eps to grind

 

I actually pushed him to talk to pat and he ended up getting screwed in my opinion. I'm just pissed that he didn't spec anything special, just something my friend could have randomly picked out of the comp catalog.

 

I ran twin 60's on my 401 and ran 9.7's at 142mph. My buddy runs 62's on his twin turbo 6.0 LS2 and made 800rwhp on E85 with heads/cam work.

Twin 57-61's are all you need for 600whp and even then 60-61's would be big. Twin 60-62's should do 1000hp. The popular 60-1's are a 57-58mm setup and very popular turbos for a wide range of power.

I swapped to T70's and no other changes, i went alot slower...spool time wasnt as good and I couldnt tune it out. Compressors were just too big for the setup.

If you go 57-60mm twins, run .68 a/r's or similar size. If you go single, i'd run a T4 framed setup in a .96 a/r. Quick spool in either auto or manual.
If you can get a Q trim that would work great, but I think a P-trim type turbine wheel with .96 and single 3" downpipe could support a 600whp goal but thats pushing it. I"d try for a 3.5 downpipe for less overall pressure in the exhaust.

S400 is a great turbo for this setup if you get the T4 version, but a tight a/r T6 should beable to spool quickly. Single T76/Q-trim Master Power would be good budget setup too.

I'm not familar with holset turbos.

 

Looks like this won't be happening (now anyways). My wife is totally against it and she said she is going to let me get the car repainted professionally with a custom paint job instead of doing the turbo. She says she "doesn't like those whistle things"... Haha

 

^^ life comes first no matter what!

You could spray it for around $1200.......

 

I'm thinking spray, heads and intake.

 

Some real good heads and similar cam to what you have now will get you up near 500whp. Thats pretty strong...100 shot will get you up near 600, but I'd keep it where its at now and just hit it with a 150 and enjoy it. Thats plenty of power

 

stick a good nx set up on it and let her rip. be sure to put some safety features on it. or go to a zex system. i still love nitrous and always will. it is just as easy to spend good money on a good nitrous setup as well. my last one was pretty expensive.
1. nx big shot system
2. bottle heater nx automatic
3. electric bottle opener nx
4. custom steel braided lines
5. autometer nitrous pressure gauge
6. autometer fuel pressure gauge
7. a full jet kit
8. extra nozzles
9. an awful lot of tuning
i think all together i had about 1500 in the system. and a hobbs switch for oil pressure shut off.

good luck.

 

if ya'll come down post up in the south central section, my car should be done well before tx2k12

don't forget about the nano systems if your looking at n2o, no need for bottle heaters and worrying about bottle pressure

 

For an LS you could get a basic single nozzle kit, MicroEDGE to control damn near everything, and am LNC-002 for timing. I wouldn't use anything but HSW's microedge

 

Never heard of it, I'll look into it. I gotta get a friend of mine check out my pushrods before I do anything, I think I may have put a set that was too short in; it sounds like a sewing machine.

 

I havent used the mircoedge but I have used everything else HSW and I was happy with the products

 

when i had my kit on my car i used the lnc-002 and the microedge... good stuff!

 

sorry man, your wife went herp derp on ya

 

Eh. I can't be mad. She let me spend most of our savings account on the swap and now she's letting me get a $5,500 custom paint job by one of my friends. Probably won't be till next year sometime but it will definitely turn some heads.

 

I like where this is going.

 

A friend of mine in Kansas is a professional painter and is gonna lay some Heritage stripes on it that will look like brushed steel.

 

damn Zee, i read your post #36 and probably got more disappointed than you, i was really hoping to see another turbo addition to an LSx build. i'm looking to do that to mine as well in the future. sorry to hear its not happening. maybe my posts title could be this threads new title for ya? lol