I've read on a Monte Carlo SS site, where many members just love their LT1. There are however, more and more going the LS route. There is another thing to consider: the LT1 was in production just 5 yrs, where as the LS based motors have now been around since '97. Parts availability for the LS motors is guaranteed for years to come. I don't quite think the same can be said for the LT1.

 

This is so true, i'm saving up for a T56 swap, an automatic Transmission after a while drains the fun out of just cruising, going through gears is a work of art and never gets old in the Camaro, it can make or break a car. I switch gears when i want to switch gears .

 

Well thats the thing with the LT1 the stock heads/intake can be ported to support a good amount of power. Ignition hickups have been fixed with things like LTCC or the expensive route like 24x.

The thing that gets most people with LSX swaps is the costs to swap it in.


Well I am very happy with my 4l60e. Even more with the Yank. I do plan to pickup a T56 though. I know I can sell my Yank converter very quick if I wanted to, Try selling that B&M...

I would love a t56 though, can't find any around for any less than $1200. Maybe next winter if I decide to stick with the LT1.

 

If you wanna sell thst yank let me know !!

 

I will say based on personal experience and first hand seeing this is that the LT1's Optispark is VERY reliable. Most of the time the opti is blamed for user error.... Also I disagree with the statement that the LT1 will loose parts support... Ok lets say the bottom end.. Nope, has a gen-1 bottom end, there is NO WAY that will ever go away, The heads, I severely doubt it, at least not anytime soon but you can still port the originals and there are hundreds of thousands of F-bodies, Y-bodies and B-bodies out there to get heads from in addition to the aftermarket. Intake is good so there is no aftermarket need there, basically everything you need is in great supply either used or new aftermarket. Or even new GM part (which there still are a lot of) Less parts than the LS motors.. yes. Will the LT1 go away b/c of parts unavailability? Not a chance.

 

Think about it, look at the crossfire motors. They are still around and they use a traditional SBC engine with FI on top. Almost no aftermarket support(Literally) and the only intakes you can buy to beef up the crossfire are thousands of dollars and only one website I know of has them. (A guy in his garage porting crossfire intakes.) Basically one guy does all the crossfire work in the world and ppl still use the system! It's amazing! There are 12 sec crossfire cars that are very streetable and get great gas mileage! Look at how hard it must be to play with the crossfire system... but it's still around... same idea as the LT1 but on a MUCH MUCH smaller scale... The LT1 is not going anywhere. I'll bet on that...

 

Be as happy as you want, I don't see how a converter can be an $800 converter unless it's made out of titanium. Both the Yank and B&M do the same thing, bottom line. How can throwing transmission fluid around get anymore sophisticated? Give me a legitimate reason why the Yank is worth the money and I'll believe you. Don't give me that "It works better, my buddy likes it, it's internals are better designed, the driveability is better" crap. Show me proof of this legitimate reason. Then and only then will I believe you. People get sucked into the craze of "Expensive parts are the best!" when thy don't need to, it's not always true. Yank is a well known company of course it would be easy to sell that thing if it cost $800. Some idiot would believe it's worth that much, give them the who-ha you gave me and they will give you more than you prob payed for it. People give B&M a bad name despite never owning one OR their mind making then "Feel" the difference in converters.... I'm not doubting the Yank is a great converter BUT I would like to be educated as to why it's worth $500 more than the B&M. Prove it... Then I will believe it. I would believe it if you told me it's b/c the brand name Yank is on it.. that would make sense...

 

Believe it or not the lt1 has a huge following, some people just love the way it looks,sounds. I love this engine as it broke the mustang for 5 years straight. One of the best Sbc ever built.

 

I personally love the looks of the LT1. I'm sick of LS guys with their heads up their @$$es and spewing trash about everything but the LS motors, they trash talk LT's all the time. I like being the underdog, I make LS guys around here look bad with my LT1. I don't care what engine you got, in the end it all comes down to who has more money... bottom line.

 

My old L03 setup had a B&M 2400. I picked it up for $100 and driveability was exactly the same before and after install. No changes and a total waste to put it in. You can come pick it up its being used as a doorstop. I am sure a simple search will show countless people being disappointed by B&M converters, I am not saying their a bad company. Just that there is no comparison from my experience. With my Yank SS3600 driving around felt the same but it was a total different animal when getting on it. Thats enough for me. You can go ask why people investing into converters go with with the reputable companies like Yank, Vigilante, Edge, Circle D, etc and its not just to say their running one, trust me.

Ask any of these companies to show you inside their converters. Now go ask B&M what they do besides using another converter and welding a adapter plate to it.

My point is that quality parts that last cost money, you can probably get by with good enough but its not enough for me and looks like its the same story with those who are serious about their rides. I could of gone with KYB GR2's because their ''Good enough'' but Koni Yellows was my choice. I think this fits very well here as well.

Those LSX guys might have their heads up their asses but they do have a great platform, period. Theres a reason why their being swapped into almost everything from a Miata to our Thirdgens.

Its pretty sad my buddies 00 SS with under 4k into it runs circles on my 86. Granted that 4k would just be the cost to swap it in into my 86 as well.

 

With 4K I could make an LS1 my b!itch... Also yes the LS is a great platform, but again it's blown out of proportion. I don't feel it's "Just getting by" with a B&M, I feel it's getting by just fine. It works and hasn't ever hiccuped. I would say that it's not a piece of junk. The insides of a torque converter are a dumb argument to make. You can't judge how well they work just by looking at them. Are you an engineer? Cheap or not as far as I'm concerned the B&M's work great from what I have seen. They are cheap so I wouldn't doubt they will have some issues. I would expect an $800 converter would be literally FLAWLESS. Still don't see how driveability can get that much better, they both do the same thing.. Again how can throwing transmission fluid around get any more sophisticated?

 

I don't regret my purchase, it made me live with the fact that I went with the 4l60e. Its probably the one thing I don't regret buying. I plan to give Vigilante a shot next if I do another build.

Like I said if you are ever in Chicago, give me a holler. We can test out how well your B&M stacks up to my Yank.

 

Dose it really bother you that he went with a Yank or just try to make yourself fill better about the B&M?

 

I think yall both can agree that the lt1 is a very satisfying engine, but having a yank or a b&m is to be debated in another thread.we all know 70% of hottrodders in general Ford,Dodge,Mazda,NIssan everything is getting the Ls treatment. It's the bang for the buck right now, Give it a 5 years and the next best thing will come along and the ls2 will be the next lt1. cheers and happy new year.

 

Ok we will take 2 IDENTICAL engines, one with a B&M and one with a Yank then we can test them. You set it up and you can prove your theory. The only way to tell is with 2 identical setups....

 

Does anybody read threads anymore? Did you? Doesn't look like it. From my experience the B&M works just fine. Carlos seems to only be able to trash talk the B&M, which is quite disrespectful. I feel it works fine and I feel the Yank is way too expensive of a converter. No one can prove to me why the the Yank is $500+ more. What is making it worth that? Are you made b/c you love Yank and think B&M is junk too? Seems like it... Everyone on this forum thinks everyone else is an idiot, I have no prob with Yank I just feel they are overpriced... And no one seems to be able to prove me wrong... This is pathetic. I am not bringing down anything, but yet I am not allowed to defend a product I feel works great just b/c it's cheaper? Why spend $800 when you can spend $250? I just want proof, that's all. Is it that hard?

 

why buy a lexus when you can buy a toyota for 30% less...it's the same thing right?


that B&M converter is fine for a daily driver or mild buildup. You're paying for a custom stall that will allow for faster 60' and better ET/mph at the track. Each one is custom ordered, unless you just call and get a "3600" off the shelf for instance. A B&M will not hold high hp builds and will have too much converter slippage at the big end without gaining any more mph, rpms will just keep climbing. For a cheap build they are fine, as are the jegs brand which is transmission specialties converter in a white box. But make no mistake, you are down on performance, whether or not it matters to you is another topic.

 

I'm one of those lsx guys that have my head up my ***. I had a lt1 swap completely ready to drop in. I even had the harness ready to go. I changed my mind and sold it all and picked up a lsx and put in the car and I couldn't be happier. I have friends that both have swapped 84 sport coupes. They are identical cars. One has a stock ls1/t56 from a 2002 camaro the othe has a 97 lt1/t56 camaro set up. Both have the same 3.23 rear a le and the ls1 car wins hands down each time. I'm not saying the lt1 is a bad motor but a lsx is superior in each way. It doesn't matter what speed they race from the ls car wins by 2 car lengths each race and gets better fuel mileage. I get that they are both great motors, but one is better and people can't admit to it. There's a reason that you see lsx motors in everything compared to the ltx setups. There are even guys on here pulling a ltx to put in a lsx. All I can say is if you aren't sure about the lt1 swap save more money for the lsx and know you'll be happy.

 

You my think it is over priced but he did not.
But you said you never owned/driven a stalled auto so how do you know it is the same?
But like I said I don't care I have a edge I thought it was a fair price.

 

It basically comes down to what quulity parts you want to buy. Do you want patriot heads or afr? It's all the same for every part of the car.

 

I am talking about my experiences Viper. I owned many converters and out of all of em the B&M disappointed me for what it is. I never trashed the company just my experiences with their product. In my old setup I went from a local 2200 restalled Converter to a 4.3 converter and loved the difference. I then went to the B&M and driveability was very bad, vibrations at certain rpm's and stalled close to what the local converter did. I never said their a poop of a company based on my experiences, hell I have a few of their products in my 86.

I then did my LT1 swap and told myself I would be going with a quality converter if going 4l60e. I called up Yank and told them my plans and they recommended their Yank SS3600, 2 weeks later it was here and runs with no problems and is a night and day difference from the stock 4l60e converter. I will be going back with them for any of my converter needs.

I tried finding some solid data for you Viper but it seems B&M has not put their results on their converters, while Yank posts theirs on their site and on request.

I meant my statement more as a come test it out anytime you wish if you happen to be in the area.

 

Take out the LS advantages and you will make the same HP with both engines. The LS1 has better flowing heads factory, and a lighter block. That's about it as far as big advantages go. Go with LE1 heads/ Cam to close the gap of LT vs. LS heads and put a cam in the LS and you have 2 400WHP engines. You can only get around 400WHP on a cam-only LS, don't argue with that it's all over LS1tech. Personally both engines can make great numbers but the LS engines come setup ready to make more hp out of the box.( Again I would hope so being a newer engine) Take away the advantages and you got 2 identical engines number wise anyways. Why is that so hard to see? I don't bring the LS down but I defend the LT which 99% of LS guys rag on calling it a pile of garbage... Which is not true.

 

The lt1 is a fine motor, just not as fine as the ls1. You say to take out the ls advantage? Well why not take out the lt advantage too and put in a 305 LB9 or something? Comparing a le1 lt1 setup to a cam only ls1 isn't really doesn't seem fair to me. Saying that both will make the same power set up that way isn't true either. Jason of thunder racing made 440-450 with a trex cam on stock 241 ls1 heads. You need a le2 setup to get to around 410+ rwhp if I'm not mistaken. Add in the cost of the le2 setup to the lt1 swap you end up with a motor that is heavier, makes less power, less mpg, not as strong. If you want to cut cost on the swap get a 6.0 or 5.3 out of a truck and same 1000$ from the ls1 swap. You that 1000$ you save on the initial cost and buy some worked heads and make over 500 rwhp. It may still cost a little more in the end to do the swap, buy 90 rwhp is a incredible difference. That's why I do t see any point in doing the lt1 swap over a lsx swap. The car will also be more desirable to a purchaser with a lsx vs a ltx. The only way I'd do a ltx swap now is if the setup was free or I was in a serious pinch and needed to drive my car soon and found a cheapo drop out.

 

I would say a good chunk of your views are skewed a little bit... I was talking about taking out the LS1's advantages. Head flow is the biggest, if you even those out the LT1 makes the same if not very close numbers. You can't compare a difference displacement here bud... Why would you even bring up an LB9? Ok, lets take some bore and stroke out of an LS1 too then... Sound good? Not really.... There are 500+ WHP LT1's out there N/A. Yes it takes more work to do but it's possible. I'm defending the fact you can make good number with an LT1, LS guys just don't want to hear it. Most of them put a lot more money into an engine that IS better but not by the amount most think... Also there are LE2 guys out there running 440+WHP. JUST as strong, SAME Mileage, 100lbs heavier (depending on the car also), technically can take more power being iron instead of aluminum, I'm not saying do an LT over an LS, if you can afford to go LS do it. But I hate how LS guys rag on the LT1 for being a pathetic motor when it's not, not even close... Advantages I see are head flow and block weight, everything else is comparable.

 

My views aren't scewed it's all the truth. Make the ls1 displacement smaller and you have a 5.3 that cam make lt1 power easy enough. You honestly can't think a lt1 is as strong as a iron lsx do you? You see the strength difference as you as you look at the bottom end of the motor with the pan off. Sure there are n/a lt1 guys making 500rwhp, there are also n/a lsx guys making 650-700 at the wheels.

 

Show me a 700WHP LS1.... An LT1 I'll bet can be STRONGER than a 5.3L if built right. Any engine can be built better than another. The gen 1 sbc bottom end (Which the LT1 uses) has been in production for over 60 years. They might as well have perfected it.... You can't honestly tell me that a 5.3L bottom end will be stronger than a well built sbc bottom end? Come on man... Seriously? Or are you talking hp/Torque numbers? B/c that's a whole different ball game. Talking with LS guys is like talking to a rock... literally... The rock will never understand you nor will it take anything you say... ever

 

It's not hard to see it going to be strong. 6 bolt mains. I may be like talking to a rock but you are like talking to an idiot. The lsx is the perfected abc. They took all the good abc traits and improved them even further.the 500whp lt1 your talking about isn't 350ci and a 700whp lsx isn't going to be a 347xi motor either.

 

 

Did this seriously turn into a LSX vs LT1?

LT1s can be made into very good strong motors, the thing behind that is the money will be better spent on a LSX unless you want to be different as in this case like Viper. Want proof that its better spent with LSX? Search all over Ls1tech and see what power people are making with just a Cam, or H/C combo or the countless 5.3 with a turbo. Try slapping a turbo onto a stock block LT1...

Stop arguing about the obvious, if you want to be different and use your money into a LT1 or L98 just to compete with a LSX then go ahead, all the power to you. Yes this is coming from the guy with a LT1 in his 86, I was on a poor mans budget when I started the swap, I went ahead and finished it anyways.

 

Keep you head up your *** kid... I don't know why I bother. You LSx guys don't want to believe your beloved motor isn't all it's cracked up to be. 6 bolt main doesn't mean anything bud, it's all in the design. A 2 bolt in theory COULD be stronger than a 4 bolt, it all depends. "perfect"? A perfect engine could make MUCH MORE power than the LS1 can with the airflow it gets. Ever think about that? I'm not downing the LS1, you are downing the LT1. Why keep bringing up an LSx kid? I'm talking about the LS1, not an LS7..... BIG BIG difference! Show me a 700WHP LS1...

 

I agree but ANY motor with a turbo can make some ridiculous numbers... I could go with an LS1 swap if I wanted to but with all the jerkoffs running LS1's and talking trash to everyone else I prefer my LT1. I love being the underdog, and the results are usually quite amusing. It's all about personal preference. I just am sick of LS guys ragging on anything that isn't an LS and not giving credit where it's due... Again I never said the LT1 is better than the LS1 but the LT1 deserves some credit, not to be shunned off as a weak, inefficient, and unreliable motor... All of which are not true.

 

If that doesn't prove you have your head up your *** I don't know what does... Only a ignorant ***** would post that... Just sayin man...

 

This is the exact point im trying to make, but viper cant get it through his head. LSX is superior.

 

What am I ignorant of exactly? That the LTx motors where supior to the LSx motors. Apperently everyone missed that except you. News flash everyone, GM guys made a press release saying that they are dropping the ls platform and going back to the good old lt motors.

 

Your constantly bashing people with the ls1 and the motor itself. Im not hating on the LTx motor, Im just stating that its inferior to the LSx platform. This is coming from a guy that had a LT1 swap 99% complete and changed it last minute and I couldnt be more happy.By the way, when I refer to the LSx platform im not talking about a LS7 or any motor in general, Im talking about the block family itself.

 

AGAIN ,show me a 700WHP LS1.... Still waiting. Again I am NOT stating the LT1 is better, do you get that kid? Just let that sink in BEFORE you respond............................. Also you were indeed bashing the LT1 saying it's less efficient and weaker, which is untrue. Did you read any of your responses before you posted them? This is retarded.... Not to mention you are just being an ignorant ***** now.... Is it making you feel better? Also if the LS1 is so great why does your info section say this? "355 le2 lt1 450hp" ? AGAIN I NEVER said the LT1 is better, you are putting words in my mouth.... I just feel the LT1 does not get the credit it deserves from LS guys... THAT'S IT, That's the point I have said over and over..... Get it now?

 

if the lt platform was so great then why did chevy move on to the ls platform ? enough said .

 

Seems to me your quite irritated b/c I proved the LS1 to be a relatively mild upgrade to the LT1 (factory). Most LS guys don't want to hear it b/c the LT1 is SO much cheaper than the LS1... It's ok man, I get it...

 

Here we go.... NEWER TECHNOLOGY! Does anybody read my posts? Seriously.... Just like the LS1 will be the next LT1 when the new engine series comes out... WOW! Why wouldn't they update an engine using a dizzy? It's not b/c it was inefficient but b/c a newer generation had been designed. The LT1 paved the way for the LS1, don't you LS guys forget that....

 

To lighten the mood lets all watch this funny video. Might as well, everyone here is a little irritated I'm sure, haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVlur9yei7I

 

What's the point in this? Do you do reverse burnout?

 

In every step of the way the Ls motor out preforms the Lt motor stock to stock, bolt-on to bolt-on, h/c to h/c and boost to boost the Ls motor will make more power.

 

No point in trying to explain that to some people. It wont sink in.

 

Come on man, everyone needs to chillout.

Just some food for thought, when my LT1 was CAM ONLY, i made 341rwhp and 347RWTQ. That was thru my T56 and a 4th gen 10-bolt that I installed 4.10 gears into and on 18" C5 wagon wheels.

100% stock 95 LT1 long-block at the time, never had the heads off the block, just a baby SBC Roller cam (Comp XR270 218/224 @ 0.050) and headers/exhaust as my mods. No fancy electric water pump, no underdrive pulleys, no porting....nothing. That was June 2011 at my local F-Body clubs dyno day.

ALSO, Ive seen plenty of stock to stockish LT1's make 230-250rwhp, but ive also seen some BOLT ON ONLY LT1's make 270-290rwhp. That means stock internals guys...not even a valve cover off the engine. My buddy's forest green '95 LT1 6-speed put down 275rwhp and 330rwtq and the ONLY MODS the car had was Borla cat-back and a K&N CAI. Stock EVERYTHING else. Thats stock manifolds, stock Y-pipe with the stock single style cat!

Another guy I know had a 96 LT1 6-speed and he converted to OBD1.5 style and only mods were Pacesetter long tube's and exhaust and the thing put down 291rwhp. I'd say thats pretty ****ing good for engines that were rated at 275hp and 285hp respectively and the crank stock!

Now, I also went to Texas back on '05 to look at some LS1's with another buddy and he ended up picking up a 2000 Trans Am 6-speed car. Not even a WS6. 100% factory stock. It put down 307rwhp and 320rwtq.

Is the LS platform better? Of course it is. It's newer. It's more EFFICIENT. If you can make the same or more power from the same displacement while getting BETTER MPG, then your engine is more efficient, PERIOD. This isn't disputable, lol. Does this make the LT1 a bad choice or a "bad" alternative? **** no. An LT1 swap is cheaper, by quite a LOT since most people practically give them away (especially if youre able to pickup a complete one for $80 like one of the guys did posting in here), not to mention a lot of parts are interchangeable with SBC's, thus less cost to you to "convert" since a lot of your SBC parts will be able to be carried over onto the LT1.

-Engine mounts for an example. Your stock 3rd gen mounts will bolt-up to an LT1 just like they did on the factory engine. No need for "conversion" mounts, sandwhich plates or adapters.

-Headers/Exhaust. You do NOT need special crazy expensive swap headers like the Hawks/Stainless works. ANY 3rd gen header will work on an LT1 as long as they are at least 1 5/8" primary tubes to clear the D-port on the LT1 heads.

These 2 things alone to me make the LT1 a very viable and cost effective swap, not to mention the initial cost of the engine alone will ALWAYS be cheaper and in the favour of the LT1.

You could make it even cheaper like I did and convert the LT1 to carb. Sure im sacrificing some mileage, but im definitely not lacking any power.

Both platforms have there ups and downs, but it's up to you to decide what will benefit you the most and what it will take to accomplish the goals that you have set.

For me? I wanted to run 11's all motor on a very cheap budget meanwhile being completely streetable.

There is one thing the LSx guys never will have though, and thats the sound. A cammed out LT1 will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS sound absolutely disgusting.

 

I think we've seen enough.