LS engine as light as a V6? think again
06-14-2013, 01:53 PM
#51
Supreme Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, California For Now
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Car: 88 Formula, 90 Iroc RIP, 92 RS Sold
Engine: 305 to 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt
Re: LS engine as light as a V6? think again
yea i couldnt remember sorry i prob mix up your post with some one elses lol
i wasnt trying to point out something bad on your engine by the way ..
lol
i wasnt trying to point out something bad on your engine by the way ..
lol
no that was anothe rmeber who broke a crank, looks like one of the mains walked and cause the crank to flex, but ehh it happens when u stock main bolts and tq to stock specs when u make the amount of power he was making
my biggest blowup is when i broke a valve spring and droped a valve on the dyno was a destroked 3.4 = 3.0L very high reving turbocharged engine
when i finish up some of ym other projects ill get the 3.0 back together , its going in an s10 pickup for drag racing in a displacement limited class
my biggest blowup is when i broke a valve spring and droped a valve on the dyno was a destroked 3.4 = 3.0L very high reving turbocharged engine
when i finish up some of ym other projects ill get the 3.0 back together , its going in an s10 pickup for drag racing in a displacement limited class
06-14-2013, 01:54 PM
#52
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
Re: LS engine as light as a V6? think again
I'm not saying it wont handle well, but there will likely be other cars in same class that will do it better.
I never disputed that you can make one handle well, or that it would be terrible to drive on the street.
The point is that you're talking about a severe power difference in reality 29 days out of the month, to do better than a few cars that 1 day, and still get beat by a bunch.
06-14-2013, 02:17 PM
#53
Supreme Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, California For Now
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Car: 88 Formula, 90 Iroc RIP, 92 RS Sold
Engine: 305 to 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt
Re: LS engine as light as a V6? think again
let me ask you this
on a stock v6 yes i agree power isnt so great but what about a v6 thats been worked on ? you still think it would be able to put up good numbers
Properly built v6 weather its boosted or N/a , Properly Setup Suspension and Brakes
most high powered v6 ive seen are built for drag racing and not handling
alot of events i go to i really dont even see many civics mainly miatas and 911s and vettes there where a few crx and civics out there
you also have to keep in mind those civics and miatas have a large aftermarket support engine and suspenion wise so you have to think out side the box
like i stated before a lsx would be the best power/handling with some weight savings
on a stock v6 yes i agree power isnt so great but what about a v6 thats been worked on ? you still think it would be able to put up good numbers
Properly built v6 weather its boosted or N/a , Properly Setup Suspension and Brakes
most high powered v6 ive seen are built for drag racing and not handling
alot of events i go to i really dont even see many civics mainly miatas and 911s and vettes there where a few crx and civics out there
you also have to keep in mind those civics and miatas have a large aftermarket support engine and suspenion wise so you have to think out side the box
like i stated before a lsx would be the best power/handling with some weight savings
I'm not saying it wont handle well, but there will likely be other cars in same class that will do it better.
I never disputed that you can make one handle well, or that it would be terrible to drive on the street.
The point is that you're talking about a severe power difference in reality 29 days out of the month, to do better than a few cars that 1 day, and still get beat by a bunch.
I never disputed that you can make one handle well, or that it would be terrible to drive on the street.
The point is that you're talking about a severe power difference in reality 29 days out of the month, to do better than a few cars that 1 day, and still get beat by a bunch.
06-14-2013, 02:33 PM
#54
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Car: 93 240SX
Engine: LQ9
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.54 R200 IRS
Re: LS engine as light as a V6? think again
This, says it all.
The aftermarket engine support has nothing to do with the fact that even going to the extreme building a dedicated V6 autocross thirdgen, you cant make it handle as well as a 1800lb FF car on a tight course, building something like that just gets you something that might get to shine how often ?
06-14-2013, 03:31 PM
#55
Supreme Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, California For Now
Posts: 2,379
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
10 Posts
Car: 88 Formula, 90 Iroc RIP, 92 RS Sold
Engine: 305 to 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 10 Bolt
Re: LS engine as light as a V6? think again
Thats really not a fair comparison to begin with with such a large weight difference you know that right ?
This, says it all.
The aftermarket engine support has nothing to do with the fact that even going to the extreme building a dedicated V6 autocross thirdgen, you cant make it handle as well as a 1800lb FF car on a tight course, building something like that just gets you something that might get to shine how often ?
The aftermarket engine support has nothing to do with the fact that even going to the extreme building a dedicated V6 autocross thirdgen, you cant make it handle as well as a 1800lb FF car on a tight course, building something like that just gets you something that might get to shine how often ?
06-14-2013, 03:45 PM
#56
Moderator
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Littleton, CO USA
Posts: 43,169
Likes: 0
Received 35 Likes
on
34 Posts
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: LS1/LQ4
Transmission: 4L60E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Well, I see no need to make an argument a sticky.
The premise of this thread is a claim that an LS(x) engine is as light as a 3rd gen V6 engine. Personally, I don't recall seeing anyone make that claim, and I pretty much read every post on this forum. I have seen the suggestion to use V6 front springs for an LS1 swap, but that's as close as I've seen to such a claim.
The only possible people who could care about this, other than getting the ride height correct when you've already made the decision to do an LS(x) swap, are those involved with class twisties racing and are trying to decide which class to shoot for. I'll freely admit I don't know the details for the rules for such racing, but I would think, if there is any shred of fairness in the rules, that a factory 3rd gen V6 car would NOT be in the same class as a 3rd gen with an LS(x) engine swapped in. But, if they in fact would be in the same class, then you can discuss this somewhere else.
Wouldn't a highly modified V6 car be in a different class than a completely stock V6 car?
Maybe not. I could be wrong. It could be the "pros" in this type of racing have skewed the rules to keep out anyone who would dare venture into their territory.
My personal experience goes something like this: 1st 3rd gen car I owned was sitting down the street with a "for sale" sign on it in 1999. 1982 Berlinetta, 2.8 V6, TH200C automatic transmission, AC, power steering, power windows, power locks. Water in the oil, very little antifreeze in the coolant, pretty easy to conclude the block was cracked. For some reason, the previous owner had put in new springs all around. In looking for a replacement, a "Camaro specialist" JY told me it wasn't worth it to swap a V8 into these cars, and gave me the contact information on a privateer who bought cars at auction and parted them out, who they said had a 3rd gen with a V6. I called him up, he wanted $800 for the engine only, '86 SC that had been T-boned. When I went to look at it, sitting next to it was another '86 SC with a V8 that had been rear ended. He wanted $850 for the entire car. I bought the one with the V8, hauled it home, and started in. At first I left the new V6 front springs in, but had frequent bottoming out issues, so I pulled the springs out of the V8 donor car, put them in the '82, and threw the new V6 front springs in the garage attic.
Fast forward to 2007. I picked up an LS1/T56 dropout, intending to put it into the '82. But, I kind of liked the '82 as it was (which now had a 350 in it), so started looking for another car to put the LS into. That turned out to be another '82 Berlinetta with factory LG4/TH200C. As part of that swap, I pulled the new V6 front springs out of the garage attic and put them in this new Berlinetta as part of the LS1 swap. The ride height came out just fine. I never did any twisty racing with the car before I sold it this spring, but never had any issues with bottoming out like I did with the LG4 swap in the other car with those very same springs.
Now, I'll freely admit that I did not weigh the V6 engine, trans, or even the whole car before swapping in the LG4. I also didn't weigh the LG4 (or the ZZ3 shortblock that later went into it), TH700, etc. Not only did I have little interest in doing so, I also didn't have the means (our bathroom scale only goes up to 300 lbs.). I don't have wide sticky tires on the car, nor stiff lowering springs, nor mongo sway bars, nor 22-gazillion-way adjustable shocks on it. It still has the factory Berlinetta rims on it with plain jane highway radials. It now has an LS1/4L60E in it. I drive it to work daily, including in the snow and ice. During the summer months, another set of Berlinetta rims are mounted on the rear that have DOT Hoosier slicks on them, and I have some fun with that. It's not a real barn-burner, although it did run some 11.9's @ 113-114 at Heartland Park Topeka last September. And, people don't seem to like getting paired up next to it here at the home track.
I did read the article the OP linked, and while I don't have any way to prove it one way or another, I do believe they made a mistake in the weight they published for at least one of the combos they did (does an LS327 really weigh 34 lbs less than an LS7?), which probably affected the OP's original argument. Since they weren't out to prove which engine combo weighed the least, I'm not going to hold them to the same standard for that particular data (they didn't even reference weight in the writeup - the weight seems more of an "Oh, by the way...").
I have this funny feeling that the OP did a couple of posts, then went to make some popcorn. Well, neither this Board, nor this subforum, are intended for anyone's personal entertainment. We're here to provide technical information and answer technical questions. And, in my opinion, this thread never did either.
The premise of this thread is a claim that an LS(x) engine is as light as a 3rd gen V6 engine. Personally, I don't recall seeing anyone make that claim, and I pretty much read every post on this forum. I have seen the suggestion to use V6 front springs for an LS1 swap, but that's as close as I've seen to such a claim.
The only possible people who could care about this, other than getting the ride height correct when you've already made the decision to do an LS(x) swap, are those involved with class twisties racing and are trying to decide which class to shoot for. I'll freely admit I don't know the details for the rules for such racing, but I would think, if there is any shred of fairness in the rules, that a factory 3rd gen V6 car would NOT be in the same class as a 3rd gen with an LS(x) engine swapped in. But, if they in fact would be in the same class, then you can discuss this somewhere else.
Wouldn't a highly modified V6 car be in a different class than a completely stock V6 car?
Maybe not. I could be wrong. It could be the "pros" in this type of racing have skewed the rules to keep out anyone who would dare venture into their territory.
My personal experience goes something like this: 1st 3rd gen car I owned was sitting down the street with a "for sale" sign on it in 1999. 1982 Berlinetta, 2.8 V6, TH200C automatic transmission, AC, power steering, power windows, power locks. Water in the oil, very little antifreeze in the coolant, pretty easy to conclude the block was cracked. For some reason, the previous owner had put in new springs all around. In looking for a replacement, a "Camaro specialist" JY told me it wasn't worth it to swap a V8 into these cars, and gave me the contact information on a privateer who bought cars at auction and parted them out, who they said had a 3rd gen with a V6. I called him up, he wanted $800 for the engine only, '86 SC that had been T-boned. When I went to look at it, sitting next to it was another '86 SC with a V8 that had been rear ended. He wanted $850 for the entire car. I bought the one with the V8, hauled it home, and started in. At first I left the new V6 front springs in, but had frequent bottoming out issues, so I pulled the springs out of the V8 donor car, put them in the '82, and threw the new V6 front springs in the garage attic.
Fast forward to 2007. I picked up an LS1/T56 dropout, intending to put it into the '82. But, I kind of liked the '82 as it was (which now had a 350 in it), so started looking for another car to put the LS into. That turned out to be another '82 Berlinetta with factory LG4/TH200C. As part of that swap, I pulled the new V6 front springs out of the garage attic and put them in this new Berlinetta as part of the LS1 swap. The ride height came out just fine. I never did any twisty racing with the car before I sold it this spring, but never had any issues with bottoming out like I did with the LG4 swap in the other car with those very same springs.
Now, I'll freely admit that I did not weigh the V6 engine, trans, or even the whole car before swapping in the LG4. I also didn't weigh the LG4 (or the ZZ3 shortblock that later went into it), TH700, etc. Not only did I have little interest in doing so, I also didn't have the means (our bathroom scale only goes up to 300 lbs.). I don't have wide sticky tires on the car, nor stiff lowering springs, nor mongo sway bars, nor 22-gazillion-way adjustable shocks on it. It still has the factory Berlinetta rims on it with plain jane highway radials. It now has an LS1/4L60E in it. I drive it to work daily, including in the snow and ice. During the summer months, another set of Berlinetta rims are mounted on the rear that have DOT Hoosier slicks on them, and I have some fun with that. It's not a real barn-burner, although it did run some 11.9's @ 113-114 at Heartland Park Topeka last September. And, people don't seem to like getting paired up next to it here at the home track.
I did read the article the OP linked, and while I don't have any way to prove it one way or another, I do believe they made a mistake in the weight they published for at least one of the combos they did (does an LS327 really weigh 34 lbs less than an LS7?), which probably affected the OP's original argument. Since they weren't out to prove which engine combo weighed the least, I'm not going to hold them to the same standard for that particular data (they didn't even reference weight in the writeup - the weight seems more of an "Oh, by the way...").
I have this funny feeling that the OP did a couple of posts, then went to make some popcorn. Well, neither this Board, nor this subforum, are intended for anyone's personal entertainment. We're here to provide technical information and answer technical questions. And, in my opinion, this thread never did either.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
