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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
I did think about modifying the dside battery box. I like the idea of making the battery box the air-box by routering it out. My thinking: I ruled that out for a couple reasons...
1. There's a triangle brace under the box, to reinforce the frame for the steering box. Probably best not to weaken it by cutting it up.
2. I don't like "permanent" changes like that. She'll be a track car, but not a "primer-black-caged" track car that I'm ok hacking up.
I never thought about throttle response. Thinking out loud here...the only harm additional ducting could have is to add pressure drop between the filter and throttle body, reducing flow and maybe, reaction. Technically - ANY additional plumbing will hurt flow, though in this case I'd say 3.5" is borderline overkill and should have a negligible impact on flow. Twin 48mm throttle blades equate to 5.65 square inches of surface area. The 3.5" duct is a surface area of 9.62 square inches. I think I have lots of margin there. Now, if the throttle body was in the fender, I think that's a much more plausible concern.
In reality - it'd be easy to test since my CAI is modular. Just run it with the filter IN the battery box and run it as shown in my pictures, compare notes. Too, I have to admit, having it in the engine bay where most people put it probably isn't *that bad* when the car is in motion since that's where most of the cool air is flowing in from. So again...Tyler is being too obsessive compulsive.
Still...I've seen enough cars at the track with engine bays full of heat shielding that I figured...it can't hurt to shy on the side of caution (overkill).
Yeah...I know what you're thinking. And you're right - it DOES hurt to know what I think all the time. lol
Too, I have to admit, having it in the engine bay where most people put it probably isn't *that bad* when the car is in motion since that's where most of the cool air is flowing in from.
That is what I have been noticing. The temp rise wasn't as high as I thought it would be. I'm thinking of shielding the air filter a bit and calling it a day.
I would be much more interested in a ram air intake than just a cold air intake.
Well, another winter, another RC racing season. This year was fun - everyone is running 2WD buggies which was a first to me. I'll have to post a picture of my race rig. Had some successes, figured some stuff out, but once the outdoor season started and the weather improved, I knew where I needed to be...
I left off last November pretty discouraged. I had fuel lines to finish, brake lines to re-do, cold air to finish, a nose to install, a wing to repair, etc etc etc. I was overwhelmed and needed the 5-6 month break. Timing was right.
I started this year by tackling the easy stuff, clean the frame of the nose, bumper support, air scoops, etc. Got that all installed and mounted...
The closeup of the frame shows the rubber spacers I made and the washers I cut to go under the nuts holding the bumper on. I refuse to mar the paint I laid down...
Also finally got the strut tower brace modified. In the end, I just cut and flipped the end on top of the alternator - all I needed was ~2" of additional material to cover the gap.
Thanks to S76 (dad) for welding and stripping the powder coat off the brace...with FIRE! (Works WAY better than sand blasting)
In this picture you can also see the finished AN fuel lines running up and over the driver's fender. Trying to avoid sources of heat...
The wing was a relatively easy fix too once I let my OCD go. See, that lousy half-year run RS wing (which I really like) is hard to replace, and it's nary impossible to find the gaskets that go under it. So I came to terms with a few blemishes where the old gaskets used to be and did the following...
Used a 2 part JB Weld plastic epoxy to install new studs where the old ones pulled out. Start by cleaning the old stud bosses (what's left of them) with a Dremel. I roughed-up all the surrounding surfaces around the boss as well to help the plastic weld adhere. Then fill what's left of the original boss with plastic weld, gently thread in the new boss, then schmere (sp? help me out Hebrew TGO members...) as much JB weld around the stud/boss as you can. They say it takes 30 minutes to setup (shenanagins on that) so I let it sit for days before finally installing the wing.
Now, since the original gaskets were hard and cracked like peanut brittle, I bought rubber-backed washers at my local hardware store and used them on both the outside and inside of the wing studs. No leaks here.
And now we arrive at today. I was going to make my own y-pipe but after some trials I've decided to have the exhaust shop do it. I don't have the patience.
That means I can take the headers out and prep them for FINAL installation. TIME FOR MORE THERMAL WRAP!
This is what you get in the DEI kit. I can't wait to do this. It's going to look so trick.
Also bought "racer approved" Motul brake fluid. Stuff is getting REAL.
Progress this weekend. Got the headers off, stripped, painted, and (one of them) wrapped. Tips...
1. Wrap as TIGHT as you can.
2. The DEI kit is pretty good, but order extra ties. Between breaking a couple ties and having to re-do a few I used the entire kit worth on 1 header.
3. Most shorties will force you to wrap the 2 middle tubes together. See pic.
Overall I'm pretty pleased with how it came out. Once more ties show up I'll finish the pass side. With the headers on I can finish the brake line plumbing. I've mocked-and-undone this stuff SO many times...
Happy Sunday TGO. I know it's been a while - I'm learning that I prefer to do my work in big slugs rather than chip away at it every day. I like seeing progress I guess.
The last month has been really productive. Got a new driveshaft from my buddy Don, it's a steel unit they use in the late model and modified race cars at the speedway. Compare it to the stock third gen d-shaft. BEEF.
Also on the list of things accomplished: new seats. The Corbeau's are absolutely gorgeous and are SUPER comfy. They say their "normal" seat fits up to a 36" waist. Well...I'm a 36 and - while they fit - I now have a new reason to NOT gain any weight...
I got the dual-locking rails from Corbeau too. Bolt-in affair. Love it.
I had originally intended to do my own wiring, but I just broke down and ordered an LT1 harness from PSI on ebay. Brand new harness with its own fuse and relay box for around $500. Hard to beat. Plus I have the original harness *just in case*.
Gotta order a new body harness since I hacked mine up though. Whops...
It was a drag and drop installation with the exception of my coil. I had installed a new 1995 coil and the PSI harness requires a 1996 one-plug coil. That meant my coil-wire didn't work which meant I had to order another set of plug wires.
Anybody need a brand new set of plug wires for a 1995 or earlier LT1?
Another big hurdle was getting the ECM mounted. I intended to mount the harness inside the car with the fuse block and relays, but it wouldn't reach. Boy am I glad I did the battery relocation 2 years ago!
I ended up ordering a ton of rubber products from McMaster Carr, the pictures speak for themselves. Now the ECM has a 3 point mount with rubber isolates under each end. It's the right mix of firm with a little give. Plus where it's located it'll get some fresh air. I can always put a fan on it if I go really bonkers...
I also finally finished my fluid lines. Brake lines installed, tight, and system bled. Clutch bled (and works)! And fuel lines tightened and secured.
The fuel lines were a real pain in the butt. With all the braces I added to this car I couldn't figure out how the OE lines were secured, so I ended up securing the lines GOOD on each far-end of the car, then put conv-tubing around them and zip-tying them together. Dave Frieburger would be proud. They're SUPER stiff and not going anywhere. I even added rubber wraps where the lines were close to the frame.
Almost forgot: I also had the privilege of driving up to Watkins Glen NY for the NASCAR race a couple weeks ago. Absolutely unreal. We got there for the Xfinity race on Saturday (stupid KB won...) and spent the night in Corning NY at a hotel with the Xfinity Penske team. Getting up-close with the cars and having the whole NASCAR experience was totally worth the 11 hour round-trip.
That's the Glen Dog. And yes, that's mac n'cheese and crushed goldfish on it. So good...
No, no. No bragging intended. My garage is relatively humble actually. But the offer stands if you want to see how you like the fit of the seats. Just PM me.
On a side note: Aug 31 the car gets trailered to the shop for alignment and exhaust!
This week was a big deal - the Camaro saw sunlight for the first time in 4 years! Loading it up on the flat bed to go to Chappel Tire in Union CT to finish the exhaust and do the alignment. WOO!!!
Arrived at the shop safe and sound. And yes, I followed it the whole way there.
By the end of day 1 the team at Chappel had the new y-pipe mocked up. I'm a little bummed that it isn't tucked up more by the pan, but I'm ok with it for a few reasons...
1. Less heat into the motor oil
2. It's no lower than the x-member and front air dam
3. It allowed them to make the y-pipe more 'flowey'
4. Car still has over 4" of ground clearance (and it's already lowered, so that deal won't get worse)
I'm beyond excited. When it comes home I'm having it put in the house-driveway so I can give it a bath, then it'll roll into the new garage (read: not workshop) where I can do some wiring and put the hood on. Maybe even put a fire extinguisher in it.
This winter every time I go in the garage to grab a snow shovel I'll get to stare at it.
Back around the 4th of July I took the GTO to Lime Rock Park in Lakeville CT for a "DE" (driver education) day. My brother rode shotgun as I'm still working to get my intermediate license and we had a blast. I was with a group of guys with some serious cars. There was a Hellcat Challenger, a supercharged Challenger built by Petty's Garage, a brand new Mustang GT, and then me...with my humble Holden. The GTO held up great and turned the fastest lap out of our group.
It was somewhere after my 3rd run that judgement failed me. My brother asked if he could take the GTO out for a few hot laps. 6 laps later he returns my car to me with smoking front rotors. They were so hot the anti-squeak grease was on fire. A sploosh from a water bottle fixed that issue, but it made me realize that I couldn't keep beating on the GTO the way the general built her.
It was around that time I decided to install a fire extinguisher in the Camaro too. lol
The numbers game wasn't in the Goats favor. It's a heavy car, so I was looking at about $4000 in upgrades (brakes, rims, tires, sway bars, etc). It didn't add up, so I put the car on Craigslist thinking "I'll have the Camaro done soon."
Fast forward a week and a I've got a buyer for the GTO and am casually shopping for a new "daily driver".
I didn't really look into Vettes at first. To me, Corvettes conjure visions of stuffed-shirts wearing khaki shorts and loafers without socks that couldn't change their oil if their children's lives depended on it but are on a first name basis with the maintenance guy at every nearby golf course. Yeah, I was a little biased. But prejudice is bad right?
In the name of social justice (snerk) I test drove was a somewhat reasonably priced C6 Vette. It was a 2005 LS2 / T56 car and I was impressed with it. I almost WANTED to dislike it, but the car was comfortable, tight, FAST, and even stopped pretty good with factory brakes. I didn't warn the salesman before the panic stop either BUT, as soon as I pulled into the lot, the car threw a check-engine light which the dealer later diagnosed as a dead fuel pump. They said the price just went up $1500 and I walked out.
The next day I found a 2014 Camaro SS for the same price as the Vette so I went out to see it. Talk about surprise. Whereas I wanted to hate the Vette and loved it, I WANTED to love the Camaro and really...well...didn't. I didn't like how high the window sills were: elbow-out-the-window was super awkward, and I'm 6' tall. It handled, it stopped, but it felt slower than my Mustang. Looking at the power/weight it all adds up.
I left the dealer feeling pretty dejected. Having 2 Camaros in the driveway would have been SICK, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.
A few days later I found 1 C6 Vette that met all my criterion that had JUST been listed (no pics) - so I called the dealer, put a deposit on it, and waited for details. Turns out it was owned by a 70 year old that wouldn't even change a dead battery!
Now I've got a 2008 Corvette in my driveway. I've already gotten flak from neighbors and co-workers. I guess a young(ish) guy having a nice car is offensive, but I won't become one of "those" Vette owners. Already bought front brake cooling ducts from a Z06 to install. Next stop? Lime Rock Park in October.
Details...
2008 C6 Vette
6L80 Auto W/Paddle Shifters
Bi-Modal Exhaust
22,000 Miles
Brand New Michelin Pilot Sport Tires
STOCK!!!!
Oh, you went and done it now! You realize this is the beginning of the demise of your Camaro.... Yes, Corvettes are that good. And so easy to make better. You're going to enjoy it for sure.
I agree, 5th gen Camaro is disappointing at stock levels. Had a friend take me for a ride in his stock 2014 and I couldn't believe how slow it was. Terrible interior layout, and frankly not very good looking. 5th gen will be soon forgotten with the performance of the 6th gen.
Oh, you went and done it now! You realize this is the beginning of the demise of your Camaro.... Yes, Corvettes are that good. And so easy to make better. You're going to enjoy it for sure.
I agree, 5th gen Camaro is disappointing at stock levels. Had a friend take me for a ride in his stock 2014 and I couldn't believe how slow it was. Terrible interior layout, and frankly not very good looking. 5th gen will be soon forgotten with the performance of the 6th gen.
I hate to say it, I agree with qwktrip. New cars are where it's at! Comfort and fast the total opposite of third gens!
Another winter, another off-season. Once the Camaro came home last fall it went in the garage, awaiting finishing touches, a nose, and wiring. I can’t say that I’m too eager to get started on all of it, but I’m dying to hear this car run. I should have some updates from this weekend’s activity by Sunday.
In the meantime, the stable had yet another change. I took the Corvette to Lime Rock Park last November for an abbreviated track day (20 min on, 40 min off) and was a little discouraged with what I saw. The car was 5 seconds faster than the GTO right out of the gate, but by the end of the day my oil and trans temps were around 260 F, which is scary. I can’t even imagine what the GTO trans temps were last June when it was hot out...
Anyway, I didn’t want to start modifying a pristine low-mile Vette, so I started shopping for a Grand Sport or Z06 C6, but they were all close to $35-40k and I had a hard time justifying that on a 10 year old car. In late November I had come close to giving up for the winter when I stumbled across something truly special that felt more like ‘home’ than the GTO or Vette did…
First track day is late-June. I can’t wait to see what this car runs for lap times!
Hell yeah! The 6th Gen 1LE is one mean mamma-jamma and you won't be disappointed! It's what my wife wants now, although she keeps giving me hell because she waffles between a Green 1LE and a Green ZL1. We'll see lol.
My 92 is gone. I got a '14 Z28 last October and it has just blown me away in every respect. I stopped having the desire to work on V, and pretty much never drove it so she went to a good home. This Z28 is just amazing... and it's stock (ish).
"Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated." - Mark Twain
It's definitely good to be back in "car-mode" again. The winter was long and cold and sucky, so I'm thrilled to be in the garage.
R31 - that Z28 is sick, I'm jealous. For as few of those as Chevy made, they're EVERYWHERE when I do track-days. See lots of those and lots of C6 Z06 Vettes. And they're WICKED.
For me, the 1LE finally felt like the 'right' car for the job for so many reasons. As cool as the Vette was, it needed rims, tires, brakes, shocks, sway bars, and cooling. So I saw no sense dumping $6k into a car just to make it worth less.
So far I'm impressed with the 1LE. It provides just the right amount of suffering in terms of road feedback, but the behavior change from mode-to-mode is incredible. Different shock, steering, and throttle curves. It's nuts.
The day I saw the first Iron Man movie I thought: "man, gotta get me one uh dem suits" - this is the closest I'll ever come. It's so connected to the road, so responsive, and so ergonomically proper that it feels like you don't drive the car, you wear it.
It truly is an amazing piece of machinery. I've done 2 track days with it, and have another coming up on the 26th. I've only had 1 car pass me the entire time, and it was a C6 Z06 on the last turn of the last lap of the day. My tires got greasy and I decided to stop pushing. I've chased down pretty much everything though, including 5 laps behind a '18 ZL1 that finally conceded and let me pass. I daily drive it too! Almost 5k miles now.
I loved my 3rd gen, but with all the money I had in it, this Z is just better in every way. I couldn't build the 92 for what I paid for this car and still come close to the performance. Only paid $36k for the Z.
I'll get another one day, but not with the intention of building an all out performance car. LS swap it, make it comfortable and that's it. I'd rather put all my cash into the Z and get that sweet LS7 up around 700hp NA.
Everything you said about the 1LE is what I experience in the Z. I absolutely love how connected it feels, how it sounds, how I can drive in PTM5 and still never lose traction, even in the rain. And it has A/C, which makes it better lol.
Totally agree. I was at one time optimistic that the IROC would be a solid track star, but I'm about 20 years late. Plus, I'd be heartbroken if I put the IROC in the wall.
It'll be an awesome daily, and I'll probably track it 1 or 2 times just to have the photos and experience, but I won't be flogging it.
Truth be told, one of my biggest fears (aside from the lack of electronic nannies) is the "LS1 Big Brake" kit. I think it's marginal at best given where he mounts the bracket to the original spindle. I may revisit that.
Actually made some progress this weekend. Installed 2 cheapie ($50 ea) Jegs 1000 CFM fans. I never thought I'd use the zip-tie installation method, but y'know, with the little foam pads that come in the kit, I think it's safe enough.
Got more done yesterday. Some useful, some to keep me excited.
I finally put liquid in the radiator, PS system, and gas tank - as far as I could tell, all of it stayed in the car. LOL For some reason that made the nearness of starting the car finally seem "real".
Brown Santa also came with some wiring goodies. And I threw a few shims under the starter since I couldn't find the originals. Hopefully it's in the ballpark.
I also started thinking about where I'm going to put my relay/fuse boxes. I think I've settled on making a bracket out of high temp plastic and mounting it as shown in the pic. The Painless fuse block even came with a little rubber condom to protect the fuses from rain, and the back of the whole thing is fully potted. Mint.
I also did some research on how to deal with the T-56 reverse lockout. Options were...
1. Force the shifter into reverse, ignoring the lockout (bad idea).
2. Wire the lockout to a toggle, or brake lights (ick...more wiring).
3. Defeat the lockout...somehow.
Apparently some guys on the Mustang forums figured out you can replace the spring in the lockout, effectively weakening it so it still serves its purpose, but is easier to push-through when de-energized. Not bad...but then I found these guys, and their little do-hickey. Ordered one right away. I tell myself it's justifiable since removing the solenoid leaves me more tunnel room.
Since I bought a PSI harness for the LT1, they omit anything but the truly essential wiring. The ECM could control the solenoid, but it's not wired to. The 'dummy' I bought also frees me from having to give the computer more signals from the brake / clutch pedals.
At this point, I'm working to the David Frieburger methodology: "Don't get it right, get it running." haha
So just add two wires to the transmission lockout solenoid... ?
Not sure about LT1, but the LS1 uses trans speed to make decision to unlock the reverse gear gate when speed is less than 5 mph. No wires to pedals, clutch, or anything to the interior.
So just add two wires to the transmission lockout solenoid... ?
Not sure about LT1, but the LS1 uses trans speed to make decision to unlock the reverse gear gate when speed is less than 5 mph. No wires to pedals, clutch, or anything to the interior.
On my 95 LT1 PCM for a T56 the reverse lockout circuit is controlled by the PCM, factory is set to disable the lockout below 5mph. I'd imagine its the same circuit for auto's.
I know "just add two wires" can seem like a huge task when you're burned out and tired of the project. Been there... done that... big time. But I also know you're like me in that you believe things should work properly. You'll be happy with yourself if you take a few steps backwards to do it right. Trust me because I redid a lot of things on my car before it ran so I've been there... done that... big time... and it sucked!
No worries QwkTrip - I get it. But you're right: at this point I just want the car to RUN. Even if that means going for the simpler approach and revising something later.
Speaking of which, made a huge dent in my engine bay wiring this weekend. Aside from a new alternator cable, ground cable, starter cable, etc - I managed to get my relay boxes mounted. I wanted black plastic, but it's good enough for who it's for. this way all the mess is in one corner of the car, and the panel removes with 2 bolts, so its actually quite accessible...
Well, I wish I had more to show for the hours I put in this week, but wiring and electrical isn't as exciting as a motor build or a trans swap. Anyway - I'm down to having to install the chassis harness for my starter and OEM cluster wiring, but I was able to test out lot of my aftermarket stuff today...
Gauges: tested good
Starter: tested good
Fans: both tested good
It was definitely a big moment when I powered the LT1 ECU for the first time (and all the other circuits) and didn't see or smell smoke. <whew!>
I also installed the T56 reverse lockout spring and fixed the hole the previous guy hacked in my center console. Lastly: a lesson learned for anyone doing a LT1 swap today - you need the barrel style TPI throttle cable, not the eyelet style. Got that handled too...
11-12-2016, 08:19 PM
BUT, as soon as I pulled into the lot, the car threw a check-engine light which the dealer later diagnosed as a dead fuel pump. They said the price just went up $1500 and I walked out.
