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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
So its less than two weeks to BAR and I have barely driven the car. The main issue is still a dragging clutch. I have bled it about 8 times. I even had pro's do it. Still, It looks like I need a better clutch master cylinder. ( I'm thinking about getting a hawks master for 299.00) Anyway its annoying but completely drive-able. I also still need an alignment. I wanted to wait on that for new steering parts but my need to drive and lack of time are priority. I am having to skip even easy stuff like radio, headline etc to focus on setting the parameters on the computer for passing smog. If all else fails, I will put it on the dyno at my friends shop. We will see. Its a tough time of year for me to be doing this as the holidays are already taking my time away from the car project.
Ok folks, time for an update. I don't know what I was thinking trying to finish this around the holidays. I spent thanksgiving with my brother in AZ. Then had the impossible task of completing the computers drive cycles to pass the California bar referee. I had most items completed when I got a check engine code for Clutch position switch. I had to clear it, which means clearing all the drive cycle data the day before the appointment with bar. Even though it has nothing to do with emissions, CA says their can be no trouble codes or check engine lights on when smogging at bar.
Another problem he did not like was the muffler shop stupidly put the drivers side o2 sensor in the top of the cat. The ref says the cat has been tampered with and a new one needed to be installed. The pass side cat was moved but he said it was ok because the distance from the engine remained the same. Other codes he found were elated to the EGR i think. I will get that info tomorrow as I am away from the car now. The things Im worried about are getting this 99 smog pump functioning right and getting the egr and evap self tests to complete. Also my buddy Juan says all cars had the clutch position wiring, but the automatics had it buried in the harness with no connector. Can anyone confirm this? I will be heading to the junkyard to pull the necessary connector and dig around in an auto car to confirm the location of these wires.
I forgot to include some important information in the last post. The cal dmv did give me a 30 day TOP temporary operating pass. on their website it says they can only be issued upon a change of ownership, smog test failure. but a small entrance says that the dmv supervisor can issue a top in special circumstances. I explained what I was trying to do with the engine change and how i needed to drive the car day after day to set the computer. They offered me 3 one day passes! But after explaining how I was a good guy trying to do the right thing, rather than getting a fake smog as most guys do, then they did issue me the 30 day top after I wrote a "Statement of facts"
Maybe I caught the right guy on the right day but if you are here in cal, statement of facts is a catch all for everything from a reduction in fees to a 30 day temp operating permit.
So I have been driving this car and yes it is fun and powerful. The problem with the clutch was solved temporally by notching the back of the clutch pedal which was hitting the clutch master cylinder shaft and then grinding the clutch pedal stop bracket each a 1/4 inch. As i said it drives fantastic. lots of power, amazing fuel economy, and did I mention it smoged something like 75% cleaner than a TPI car? Strangely, I am proud of that accomplishment. The haters can put us down all they want, but I got power AND a cleaner environment!
Keep at it Speedfreak, Work hard set goals keep excited. Get your friends involved if you can. Without the BAR referee hurdle here in CA, I would be collecting heads and cam for more power!
This is a great thread! I'll be watching this thread. I'm planning on doing the same kind of LS swap in my car. I live in California too and I understand the crap that we have to go through for emissions testing too. It's just so easy to get power and efficiency with an LS swap these days.
As far as I know the Clutch position sensor is just like a brake light switch in function, Just tells the ECM the clutch is pushed in. At least you guys are getting a true taste of what it takes in San Diego to complete a project like this.
You have to take ALL these things into consideration and be real if you have the time, skill, and money to do this.
I would have tried to drop it in with the stock cats in place and route the exhaust from there after the O2. They don't play with that here, no moving the cat, and you have to find the right referee (These are state employee's some are great, some are like" What planet did you come from" wierdos)
For the cam info I would hit up the search engine on LS1tech dot com. There is where you will get an answer as to what passes or not and what combos will pass.
NCDave- amazing effort. I really hope you succeed- your a trail blazer for sure. It doesn't get any harder than this
beurocracy wise.
The Day you get that reg. sticker will be awesome. (Then you can tune and mod
On the smog pump, you will need to run the egr tube and the oem set up. it may be some space issues packaging wise on the iroc.
I just bought an Ls1/T56 set up yesturday. Just saw this thread while trying to research as much as possible before I install it. That CAT issue on the driver side looks like a pain.
Do you know if any of the Hawks third gen headers or manifolds (Smog Legal) they sell fix it so you don't have this issue? Or is there another year CAT that will bolt up with no problems?
I want to intall mine as soon as i can because I have no room for storage for the engine. After I drop it in the engine bay, I can work on it slowly.
In order to pass through BAR, is installation of a 4th gen gas tank necessary or can you use your stock tank?
Great thread.
Last edited by M3638; 12-20-2015 at 08:31 AM.
Reason: Xxx
Thanks tealman. M3638, He is right. Everything must be used. This is a disappointment for many of us but changes can be made after the BAR inspection to satisfy your go fast desires. the main thing though is to get through this critical inspection. My main tip is to ensure that you renew your current smog and registration if possible. On of my main problems has been getting permits to drive and test on the street. setting the computer to emissions ready can take time. Also buy a cheap scanner so you can see whats going on with the cars computer. M3638, your question has just been asked by another member. check out my response below.
Hello yaj15, thanks for visiting my build. The ref basically wanted to pop the hood and see a stock engine, from what ever year you say the engine is from. It's best to have a late engine say an ls1 from 2001-2002. That way you avoid dealing with the EGR/Air injection issues I am having. Also in cal the 2000 and up don't have to do the tail pipe test, only 99 and down.
Although he asked me about EVAP, he acted like I did not have to prove I had it. ( I have a gas tank access door where he could see I have it on the stock LS1 plastic gas tank. Try your best to get everything from the same car. I did not do this and I an dealing with some issues with slight variations in the years. I.E. my engine is a 99 but my body harness is a 2000. The smog pump runs off the body harness so I have one plug as for the 2000 set up rather than a 99 smog pump which has two connectors.
If you can buy a wrecked car at auction. It is by far the best way to go. I pieced my car together from several junkyard cars and its biting me now. With that said, it is do-able buying an engine off craigslist and building your project that way. Make sure that the car the engine came from was a 50 state California emissions vehicle!! The 01/02 cars show the vin of the donor car so the ref can trace the vin to see if the donor had cal emissions if not, you cant swap it legally. Because mine is a 99, the computer dose not support or show the vin of the donor car allowing me more wiggle room if you will, they can't tell where it came from.
One of the big issues was getting the computer to run the tests of all the emissions related parts. These systems in our car must show "ready" meaning the car will pass emissions. On my 99 they need to show ready and they still do the tail pipe test. By the way, I passed that test with flying colors but he failed me for visual (egr configuration) and the computer not showing "ready" (not all my tests had run) If there is a problem with any one test, the computer will not run the rest of the "readiness" tests until the problem is fixed. An example is I had the wrong egr solenoid, The computer did not like that, threw a code and wouldn't pass me on the egr test, and no more tests would run until I got the right solenoid.
To accelerate the cycle of computer tests, you need to complete what's called the GM DRIVE CYCLE. This forces your car's computer to preform the necessary emissions related tests so you can go to the ref sooner.
Remember, take all the emissions related equipment from the donor car. EVAP, EGR, smog pump, original cats if you can and try to install them on your car as close to stock as you can (just for the ref appointment, then you can change it later) I believe you need the instrument cluster for evap I believe, although there are ways around it, It's one more reason I did the dash swap as well in this build. I also used the FULL BODY HARNESS to save time, money and headache. It went in with the dash install very easy. (much of the body harness is connected with the dash) Or contact spertech or pocket on ls1 tech, but they charge about 1k to do your custom wiring.
I hope I haven't missed anything. If you have any further questions please feel free to ask.
Do I have your permission to post your question on the build? I am sure this info will be useful to others doing this build. Dave
Thanks for the info, what a pain. I definitely don't want to get rid of the 3rd gen dashboard, don't want a 4th gen dash. I read another thread, where the guy used his reg cluster and passed with no problems. He said wired the car himself and iused a tune to erase the issue. I'll find it.
I just asked another member to build me a harness that runs all my stock gauges with the LS1/T56 and that is not a problem. The problem is the harness is not smog legal because it doesn't run any of the smog system.
Does anyone know of a company or person who does this?
What about the driver side cat issue? How did you resolve the fit?
Hi again M3638, I never said the stock gauges couldn't be used, It's just a bit more complicated than using the stock stuff. I have herd people tuning things out so they could pass emissions but you would have to have that conversation with your tuner.
As far as a custom wiring harness, if the guy you talked to can re-work your harness it should be no problem to include the emissions wiring. I know spertech and Pocket on ls1 do this as part of the wiring request. You can include anything you want or delete anything you want from your harness.
The drivers side cat is a problem. It needs to be rotated at the manifold flange to be able to fit in the stock location. I had my exhaust shop do this and wrap the pipes around the frame. The ref did not mind this, however my o2 was put below the manifold to cat flange (basically in the top of the cat) so he failed me for that. I have since had it redone, notching the frame so the o2 sensor can go in the stock location. If you simply adjust the drivers cat so it fits and use the rest of the ls1 y-pipe stock, you will pass no problem.
Alright, got it. Pocket can't add emissions, I asked. I have two more people to ask about this harness. I'll probably end up having pocket make me one. I've read a lot of his threads, the man knows what he is doing.
Thank you for writing up this thread, it's been very helpful for me in understanding more on this swap.
Update: I haven't been idle. work continues on the 4th gen trim ring. Lots of welding. fabricating a box for the cold air to get in is a challenge because of the tight spaces. engine is down to long block for cleaning and paint. we are planning to reassemble it this Thursday and possibly drop it in Sunday. We will see.
NCdave, is the 2nd picture the notched frame to accept to cat and 02 sensor? Is that enough room for the 02 sensor to fit on the cats stock location?
Last edited by M3638; 12-27-2015 at 06:31 AM.
Reason: Xxxxx
M3638, here are the photos of the notch for the o2 sensor. It looks like the shop used a torch to notch the frame but it can be done with a whole saw. The location is easy to find. Locate the o2 hole on the manifold, measure straight out 3 inches. You will run into the frame. That is the spot. If you are trying to do this before the engine is in the car good luck, I could barely get these photos for you. You kind of need the engine in place to accurately locate the spot for the notch.
You can see a brake line in this photo on right
O2 is on far left in this shot. Looks like an engine stand/mount bolt is visible as well.
You can see how rough the whole is in this shot. Looks like a torch or grinder was used.
These photos are all looking up. Notice the part of the frame with wholes. I think that is a bolt on part.
A nice shot of the notch here. Its located a few inches from the brake line which goes down under the frame to the passenger side front brake.
I advise you to wait for the engine to be in to do this. Every set up and car is slightly different and your notch may be located in a slightly different place.
It wasn't easy to get these photos for you. It's tight up there. However, any exhaust shop can do this work. It should be under 100.00. Let me know if you need anything else.
M3638, here are the photos of the notch for the o2 sensor. It looks like the shop used a torch to notch the frame but it can be done with a whole saw. The location is easy to find. Locate the o2 hole on the manifold, measure straight out 3 inches. You will run into the frame. That is the spot. If you are trying to do this before the engine is in the car good luck, I could barely get these photos for you. You kind of need the engine in place to accurately locate the spot for the notch.
You can see a brake line in this photo on right
O2 is on far left in this shot. Looks like an engine stand/mount bolt is visible as well.
You can see how rough the whole is in this shot. Looks like a torch or grinder was used.
These photos are all looking up. Notice the part of the frame with wholes. I think that is a bolt on part.
A nice shot of the notch here. Its located a few inches from the brake line which goes down under the frame to the passenger side front brake.
I advise you to wait for the engine to be in to do this. Every set up and car is slightly different and your notch may be located in a slightly different place.
It wasn't easy to get these photos for you. It's tight up there. However, any exhaust shop can do this work. It should be under 100.00. Let me know if you need anything else.
Thank you for your help. I'm hoping to have the engine in this week.
Hello again swap fans. Sorry for the infrequent updates. Lots has happened since my last few posts. I had a valve spring break and the engine threw some codes for maf and random misfire. My buddy Jose has the connections in TJ Mexico and I had the right head redone for 80.00. We then slapped that bad boy back on and she has been running great ever since. All the story's about ls1's week valve springs are true. The reason I did not rebuild the other head or up grade the springs is that I scored a beautiful set of 799 heads (Same as 243 heads) which will go on after I pass Bar.
That's right, I still have not pass the bar inspection. I keep having random stuff go wrong getting codes here and there which I have to find and fix the root cause.
At this point I have a new code for the clutch switch (on the brake pedal, AKA cruise control switch) not to be mistaken for the clutch interrupt switch on the clutch pedal. Both were completely out of adjustment.
Further complicating the situation ALL the I/M (emissions) on the computer, ie secondary air, evap, cats etc have set themsealves to OK only leaving EGR which Is why I don't want to go backwards by erasing the DTC's (trouble codes) putting me back to square one in again setting the emissions to ready (OK). For engine swaps BAR requires ALL emissions to show ok, no exceptions like a regular smog test where you can have one emissions component not set to ready.
I am looking into getting all this solved through getting a tune. Thoughts anybody?
Ncdave and company, I'm looking at your engine pictures and don't see the air injection check valve that I broke on mine. As I installed the engine, I crushed it with the wiper motor. I was looking to see how close you were with yours but I don't see it on your engine. Where is it at?
Hi again M3638. On these cars the 99's did not have the check valve. They simply had a 3 way "T" pipe. The 2000's and up had the check valve. I'm in a pickle. The BAR REF called my car a 99 although it has wiring for a 2000 in the engine compartment. That's why I have tried to hide mine. I put it on the car after the engine went in and tucked it behind the wiper motor. Check out these photos.
The ref did not like the valve last time. He called my car a 99 although I have 2000 wiring and need the valve. If he bitches, I can swap It out in seconds. It will be further hidden by conduit on the wiper motor wires.
Hi again M3638. On these cars the 99's did not have the check valve. They simply had a 3 way "T" pipe. The 2000's and up had the check valve. I'm in a pickle. The BAR REF called my car a 99 although it has wiring for a 2000 in the engine compartment. That's why I have tried to hide mine. I put it on the car after the engine went in and tucked it behind the wiper motor. Check out these photos.
The ref did not like the valve last time. He called my car a 99 although I have 2000 wiring and need the valve. If he bitches, I can swap It out in seconds. It will be further hidden by conduit on the wiper motor wires.
the 2000 valve is on the left.
It's hidden like this on purpose.
A close up of the valve.
Ok, maybe I have a 2000 engine then, I thought I had it figured out. Is the wiring to the gas tank different from 1999 to 2000 models?
Also, Pocket was able to put together a harness for me with the smog provisions. For anyone that is looking for something like that and want to ask him about it.
Thank you.
Last edited by M3638; 02-03-2016 at 10:59 AM.
Reason: Xxx
That's GREAT NEWS!! Pocket is the best. I new he could do it if he wanted. You see most guy's are doing just the opposite; They are REMOVING all the emissions wiring.
Notice to all guy's doing this type of project Pocket can meet all your needs.
M3638, Please post pictures of your harness and anything else interesting when you can.
As for the gas tank I believe the wiring is all the same. Best to buy one complete INCLUDING the expensive emissions hoses which run from the tank to the return line fuel line and vent hose. (please note, 98-99's were metal. You want the Plastic 2000+ tank.
11-19-2015, 12:01 AM
