Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

IF you are using this type of adapter to adapt the oem fuel rail and filter/pressure regulator to AN hardware, inspect it now

`

Better yet, replace it with a screw on type, the little lock has threads that the adapter screws into.



These things are a fire hazard. I was test driving a pontiac LS1 swapped T56 equipped 82 vette (built by me) and when I was back at the shop rolling inside the engine cut off and the fuel smell was imminent. I quickly removed the battery cables and pushed the car away so it's not sitting on top of a huge puddle of gas. Quickly cleaned up everything underhood to remove as much raw fuel as possible. I lucked out real good as the engine and headers were all at operating temp.

The whole adapter thing blew apart, the plastic retainer still on the fuel rail. This must be made in china junk with improper tolerances and weak mushy plastic (the retainer thing is pretty malleable)

I'm going to look for an alternative,...maybe first try a plastic insert from an oem fitting or even one of those metal ones.

novaderrik

what was the brand name? i've heard that they are more prone to leaking than oem grade plastic lines, but i've never heard of them coming off..

which brings up the question of why you weren't running plastic lines? you can get the pieces to do the pressure and return sides of a fuel system with oem grade plastic line and fittings from Dorman for around $50..

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

It was from summit, I think it was a russel.

Why run plastic lines if you have stainless? Also, the fuel lines on a c2/3 corvette are a b*tch to replace because they run on top of the frame and the body sits above it. Also, I have to have everything shipped and imported...no dorman here. I prefer AN hardware because I can get most if what I need here

Poor fellow:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ur-fuel-system

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

That's the problem, right there; not the fact that it's the OEM style retainer. MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of cars of all brands are driving around JUST FINE with that style of fitting.

That said, of course we all want the most reliable thing we can conveniently get, and of course, that style of fitting is arguably not the strongest most failsafe thing in existence. But be careful about attributing your failure to the design in general, rather than a crappy implementation of it.

Use some other brand - ANY other brand - besides Russell. Their brake lines for example, are well and widely known to fail catastrophically as well. Their products in general are the cheeeeeeepest of the cheeeeeeep, pure garbage.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

There is a company in Arizona I used that has a decent quality of fittings. I will have to check my receipt but I seem to remember their name being Pure Choice Motorsports. Much better stuff than the **** factory nylon plastic fuel lines on my Express van.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Where did I say that the type of retainer was the problem? Read my last line, where I said I would investigate in putting the oem style metal retainer and external clip in place. NOWHERE did I say it was a problem with the type of system. I know there are many cars running that system, hell I have a bunch of them. The problem is the cheap probably china made plastic retainer that will not hold.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

The problem isn't the plastic retainer, per se, the way your post states. More likely, the problem is a crappy implementation of it, from a supplier known to be a low-bid bottom-feeder that produces failure-prone crap.

People with that style of retainer don't particularly need to inspect ANYTHING, let alone replace it with a screw-on ANYTHING. On the other hand, people with Russell ANYTHING need to replace it, NOW. I don't even trust those people's solid aluminum parts; there's plenty of ways to screw up even something THAT simple.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I don't think it's just russell. Most of these things I see for sale, even with other brand names are almost all of the same type, if not the exact same thing.

I do agree that russell is junk, I never ever use their brake lines. I had one come apart on me, never again. I normally don't use russell an fittings either, only aeroquip and xrp and sometimes earl's.

Obviously the engineering and quality control sucks on their stuff.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

There's nothing wrong with that style of fitting (the plastic retainer type). There's TENS OF MILLIONS, maybe HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS, of them on the road this very minute, working just fine.

No need to worry about it. No need to warn anybody about it.

Russell, on the other hand...

I think you just got an especially crappy sample of a part of a normally trouble-free part. Having the Russell name on it, and it failing, strikes me as almost ... inevitable. That company IMO is about like Auburn or Gabriel; absolute bottom-of-the-barrel GARBAGE, the worst of the worst, designed and intended to be SOLD, with no concern whatsoever for what happens in case it gets USED. In fact I wouldn't even call that thing in the photo a fitting: I'd refer to it as merely a fitting-shaped-object, knowing that it's a Russell product.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I'm specifically warning about the an adapter, not the stock quick disconnect fitting. I thought that was pretty obvious. So let me clarify, if you are using the an adapter with the soft plastic retainer, replace it.

I thought this forum was about sharing experiences but I take it..it's not.... not anymore. **** sure has changed here over the years Getting beef for trying to keep someone else from getting harmed. Sheesh

RubberDucky

iTrader: (4)

There's always one.

LX_SS

Not doubting what happened to you or the scenario, however there isn't any difference to this and the stock fittings. Especially on the 4th gen fuel tank sender, they use the same plastic retainer.

Is it possible yours is defective (fitting that is), do you find it quite easy to remove from the metal housing ???
How long have you had the fitting for ???

I know my quick releases are the same but not russel brand, they are even quite difficult to get the plastic retainer out of the metal housing.

Btw, my fuel rail section, still uses the factory ls1 hose and that gets converted to a -an fitting. not a quick release on the fuel rail.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

I should have never started this thread. Obviously I'm full of sh!@# and don't know how to assemble a fitting.... blegh

LX_SS

If you read the first line of my post, i wasn't doubting you or if you could assemble a fitting. I was merely trying to work out why it failed.

But anyway good luck to you.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

it failed because it's junk and it's not the same as the oem thing, it's a cheap copy of sorts that obviously does not work. I know what you said, I frankly don't understand why I have to keep explaining myself. I was giving a warning, not waiting for a lecture.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

How many times does it have to be said...

Your problem is NOT the fact that your adapter has a plastic retainer. There are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of those retainers in the world that work JUST FINE. Everybody with a plastic retainer, OEM or not, DOES NOT have to rush right out and replace it.

The mere fact that someone has a plastic retainer does NOT automatically mean that it's likely to fail. On the other hand the fact that it's from an inferior supplier known to cut corners and have inadequate (if any) engineering, DOES mean that it's likely to fail.

I frankly don't understand why I have to keep explaining this. There's no need in getting all alarmist and doom-and-gloom about plastic retainers; rather, let's place the blame squarely where it most likely falls; on THE SUPPLIER. And maybe even, do a little common-sense analysis to try to understand the nature and root cause of the failure itself.

I would be very surprised in fact, if that plastic retainer was any different from any other. The reason being, since TENS OF MILLIONS of them are made EVERY YEAR that work successfully, then for some off-brand mfr to produce a handful of crap ones on their own, would most likely cost MORE than to simply buy a 5-gallion bucket of em (which is probably a lifetime supply for someone on the scale of Russell) from someone that already makes decent industry-standard ones BY THE MILLION. More likely, the reason yours failed, was because of something wrong with the aluminum adapter piece, such as being machined wrong, that prevented the plastic retainer from working properly. In which case, you could replace the plastic retainer every single day, and twice on Sundays just for good measure, and it would STILL be failure-prone.

If I were to offer a correction to the title and content of your warning, to make it more accurate, I would suggest, DON'T BUY RUSSELL ADAPTERS, because ... they're from Russell, and they're likely to either fail themselves or to cause failures in their neighbors, like other Russell products.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

You keep putting words in my mouth, I didn't say anything with a plastic retainer is junk, I specifically said THIS type of adapter with THIS mushy plastic retainer. I never said OEM connectors were junk. I even added a fricken pic of the adapter in question. How much more clear do I need to be.


I'll just keep my experience to myself in the future. No need in sharing since it's not appreciated, instead it just gives you grief.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Here's the words I'm putting in your mouth. Stop me if I didn't copy & paste em right.

Did I miss something? You're not blaming your plastic retainer for your failure after all? You're not telling us that you're going to fix it by replacing the plastic retainer? Forgive me for misinterpreting.

This is idiotic. I shouldn't be doing this, except that I feel obligated to protect people against rushing out and messing with their plastic retainers, which would be beyond pointless in their case, as it will be in yours.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Yes, the plastic retainer in this fitting, where is that an OEM retainer? Read the last line you copied, if I blamed the oem retainer why would I investigate swapping it out for one?

This is idiotic indeed, I never said people with oem retainers should replace theirs. It couldn't be more clear as to what retainer I am speaking of. So, yes you are putting words in my mouth yet agian.


Biggest mistake ever starting this thread, here I thought I was doing people a favor...

The fact that you obviously can not read or are simply unwilling to accept that you are out of line accusing me of stuff I did not say has made this thread into something it was never intended to be. Thank you for that, thank you for wasting my time. In the future I will keep my comments and experience to myself.

87cam305

wow y'all must be stupid if you think he is saying all quick connect fittings will fail. What he is saying is that that particular adapter is prone to fail with documentation to prove it. Thanks you for the heads up. I'm planing an LS swap myself, and will avoid this AN quick connect adapter.

$750 L98

Well crap, that is the exact fitting I used for my fuel rails, along with the Russell braided stainless lines.

Wife'sCar

iTrader: (1)

I don't think you will have any problem with the lines, and I can't comment on the fitting one way or the other but if it's bugging you get the locking fitting like posted in the first post. The black one. How often do you actually disconnect fuel line?

$750 L98

Mine never get touched, I just flip the rail over into a small bucket and leave them connected. I haven't put them through a good bunch of heatsoaks yet as it's still in a state of "project-ness", I was also curious about ethanol compatibility. I've replaced enough plastic stuff eaten away by ethanol that I wonder if that may have had a role in weakening them over time?

-=Z28=-

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for looking out for us. I never understood why on a carbed engine, you have a steel fuel line that screws right into the carb with fuel at what 4psi? mech fp.

Now with these tpi,tbi,fi, seems like everything is plastic CRAP and is at a much higher psi.

I know cars have a impact safety switch for similar reasons. BUT it takes an impact for it to trip.

The cars should have a shut off sensor when your pressure drops or when it senses no resistance. It should be a law.

Just like break lines, They should HAVE to be stainless. So should fuel lines.

I guarantee your friend who lost his car, He will never use cheap products on plumbing his fuel system again.

Cant tell you how many cars ive seen that are really nice cars. Tons of money into them. but when you go and look at the fuel system, it looks like a legos kit or something.

Also, and I bet he/you will always do this now too, Have a fire extinguisher handy and a heavy blanket. I wont leave home with out em.

I dont know what I'd do if I lost my car.

Again, thanks for the heads up.

-D

grngryoutmyway

iTrader: (1)

TT, thank you for sharing. I read about this on another thread as well, but this is still the retainer referenced in the gas tank swap threads.

Do we have part numbers for better adapters? Also do you know what sizes are needed for the two that go on the tank and the on on the rail?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

We'll start by moving this to the LTX and LSX swap subforum.

I've done two LS swaps in 3rd gens, an LS swap into a tri-five, and my son has an LS-swapped S10 Blazer (was done before he got it, but we've basically redone it). Several of these types of fittings are/were used in the 3rd gen and S10 swap. The only issue we've had were the plastic retainer letting loose on the S10 after a 1/4 mile pass a couple of years ago (that fitting is still there); and I had to carefully align the line & Vette filter on one of the 3rd gens (back in 2010). I didn't use any of the plastic retainer fittings on the tri-five because of the issue we had at the track with the S10, and the screw-type retainer became available while I was doing the swap (and I've since gone to a non-factory intake, so I don't have any of those type of fittings on the tri-five now).

I have never had trouble with Russell fittings beyond those mentioned above. I have a lot of Russell AN fittings on these swaps. I haven't heard complaints about them until now.

Having said all that, I would not use or reuse one of the plastic retainer types. When I replace the Vette filter on the 3rd gen, I'm planning on replacing those fittings with the screw-type. It's just a superior design, regardless who makes it.

I also haven't seen a Fram oil filter blow up, and I've known a lot of racers with high pressure oil pumps who have used them for years (decades, even).

V8SC1987

I may have missed it, but did you say who makes those screw-type fittings? I did a quick google search and I kept coming up with Russell fittings only.

Oh and I'd like to add that I had my fuel line (w/ a Russell quick connect fitting) blow off the fuel rail during a dyno pull last year. Fortunately we were watching everything pretty closely and were able to take care of the situation with no collateral damage.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

This problem is really old news. At least it is on the ls1tech forum. Yes, use the screw on retainer instead.

Glad there wasn't a fire. I'm sure that got your heart racing!

$750 L98

Part numbers for -6an to factory fuel rails:

Russell 644113 -6AN Male to 5/16"
Russell 644123 -6AN Male to 3/8"

Links:

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

That's one type. I think people are far more likely to be transitioning from a hose, such as part number 611203. There are other styles of adapters and hose ends too. The Russell website shows all parts. The point is to use the screw on retainer with GM quick connect type fitting.

Beater79TA

FYI: Many people in the Pro Touring world switched away from the stock style plastic clip fittings a few years ago when a couple of high profile cars suffered engine fires with the plastic clips failed. I initially went with the screw together style fitting referenced in the first post and replaced that with all AN screw together when I put aftermarket fuel rails on the car and could replace the push on style hose barb with a AN port instead.

You may be able to go decades without the fitting failing. As stated repeatedly in this thread, factory cars have been doing this for a long time. Or it could fail and burn your car to the ground. The fittings are about the same price so pick the one you want to use.

$750 L98

I just ordered the screw on type for my lines. They are the parts I linked, I have braided hose that screws onto the stock fuel lines with female ends. The quick disconnect worked great, so the screw on should fit just as well. This car has been through too much already without taking a chance on ~20 worth of fittings.

86White_T/A305

Ive had my fitting do this a month ago and also had my feed line hosed end red compression fitting at the filter/regulator literally crumble to pieces. These are russel fittings i got from summit....almost 8 years ago! So am I angry about the fittings letting go over years of abuse..nope.I punished them as i upgraded in power and fuel pumps and many people tell me not to go over 500whp with a vette fuel filter and it would starve my fuel needs. I havent seen any signs it wasnt enough fuel..or the 255lph walbro being over worked yet.

When I did my first ls1 swap..the quick connect an fittings was the only option..and all brands looked the exact same for the plastic retainer.The quality of the fitting was the difference in the material used and the finish/durability of the anodized coating from what i can tell. I think mine blew off because of me testin the msd 2 step soo much the day i installed it and the vibrations were just harsh..repeatedly

RockJay81

iTrader: (1)

As soon as I read this thread my plastic clip gave way and I had to pull over and fix it. I'm definitely changing over.

Lurbie

iTrader: (3)

Don't read the forum while driving. .

cosmick

TL: DR, at least not every reply.
When I find those connectors I cut them out because they take special tools.
But the main reason for choosing braided stainless over rubber or plastic is safety, especially if a fire happens. Every racing organization has good rules about having to use braided stainless for the fuel system, and most also cover things like power steering lines and automatic transmission cooler lines as well.

Doing it right is easy, messing with those stupid connectors is not. Toss them in the trash where they belong. They're fine for grandma's 4-cylinder 4-door rice sedan, but not for anything over 400 HP.

RockJay81

iTrader: (1)

Lmao I have the internets in my Camaro. Hp tuners on my bs Windows tablet. It also doubles as a gauge cluster and a receiver

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I was under the impression that "braided stainless" is referring to the outer sleeve, not the hose. There is still a rubber hose inside, and the outer sleeve has nothing to do with the ratings of the hose. It is the makeup and construction of the hose that is really important.

Race and street have different needs and goals. I will take hard line any day on the street.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hardline with flared AN fittings is a reasonable alternative to the factory fittings. You'll have to figure out what to do at a factory fuel rail, though, and the Vette filter/regulator uses those fitting.

If you aren't using a factory fuel rail or filter/regulator, there is no need for those fittings.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I use a compression fitting on the rail instead of the quick disconnect thing.

Mdenz3

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the heads up!

cam-

This isnt a new concern, we have an old thread somehwhere here with others warning of those things blowing off too. If you follow the scene enough you might notice the vast majority of BAD crashes come from liquid getting under the wheels or fire. A lot of times its a line that fails so this thread and its warning are very well pointed and all would be extremely wise to be super cautious with knock off no name brand fittings. At this juncture its OEM, Fragola, Aeroquip, or Swagelok here. NOTHING else.

Twin_Turbo

iTrader: (25)

Don't forget XRP, they have by far the nicest hose ends out there.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I believe I'll be going the route of simply eliminating those push-on fittings.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

You're right. If you have a few feet of unused hose, peel the stainless sleeve off and inspect it. Often theres still a SAE rating on it and most are 30R9 which is high pressure teflon coated on the inside. PS hose is different for the extreme pressures along with fuel submersible (30R10). I cringe when someone puts standard SS hose in a tank, asking for trouble as the hose itself will deteriorate since the SS braid isnt water tight

Be wary of compression fittings as I see the wrong types used very often. Check the rating of the fitting before assuming, most are

GMan 3MT

iTrader: (4)

Has anyone seen these before?
Earl's AT991966

https://www.holley.com/products/plum...ts/AT991966ERL

I don't know if they are new or if they just never popped up in my searches.

I still have the plastic clip Russel style on my LT1 racecar, and was looking to replace it with the screw on type in the 2nd pic of the first post. Although apparently, even those can come loose. A friend I race with (also LT1) has that style and one day noticed his had backed off (improper installation maybe).

The Earl's one looks to be more foolproof.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The plastic piece is a wear item and can be bought separately. Seems most unintended releases were due to either improper installation or a failed plastic clip. Id keep a few in the tool box

The thread on locks should never come free. They have flat spots for a tool to cinch them down

The earls fitting looks similar to OEM secondary locks. IMHO, you can use the original with safety wire for peace of mind before coughing up double on that fitting

Ikes 91Z

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the part numbers. Mine popped off at the filter/regulator today and ordered these!

jchaussee

Hey. Glad I read this. I see people talking about Russell all the time and giving put part numbers to use. I always thought because of that they were a premium part. I am glad I saw this so I won't use them.

R13_Braz

There's really nothing wrong with Russell adapters. The issue is with the push on adapters with the clips. My screw on adapters (which I used all over my fuel system) have 0 issues, whatsoever.