Now that looks like it should work!
DR.K.

 

I think you should be able to see the fan on/off settings in the stock tune, too. That's always a good reference point.
I don't know where the Holley base tunes come from, but they were a HORRIBLE starting point for my two engines. Not even a prayer of running on those tunes.

 

also i didn't see it and couldn't tell from the pics, but how is your heater core hooked up... ie you do have water circulating in / out of the heater ports on the water pump correct?

on my LS3 / TVS2300 before i had a money shift problem , i had a be cool set-up and a very large custom intercooler at least the same size as yours mounted in front of the rad. i did not have a condensor (no a/c) and my cooling under all conditions was fantastic

i agree with qwktrip, the holley supplied tunes are very rough and need a lot of work

 

stupid question, what is your AFR when the car is warm, or getting warm?

a lean afr can cause a car to run warm

 

it bounces slightly above or below 14.7

 

I’m almost there. I ended up fabbing some brackets to secure the fan to the p/s cooler bolts for the lower mounting. Up top I just used zip ties to hold it against the radiator for now. I need to make an upper support to replace the stock cut up plastic piece. I figured I can bend some thin sheet metal in a way that it holds the radiator in place along with some tabs against the top of the fan. I also used some stick on foam from the hardware store to seal the fan against the radiator. The main power into the volvo relay comes off the battery with a 10 gauge fuse holder. The fan is grounded straight to the battery with another 10 gauge wire. All thats left to do is solder the fan power leads to the relay and connect the pcm ground triggers. Should have some results tomorrow being the whole week has been close to the 90s.

 

Got the fan working today. A/C on here’s where we’re sitting. I’m not calling it yet as its the end of the day and only 77 degrees out with about 50% humidity. Lets see how it does this Saturday on the trip to the dyno when its suppose to be 90 out..

 

Fan made no difference. Ambient got up to 88 today with only about 30 percent humidity. Car sits at 206 no a/c and fan blasting on high speed. Put the a/c on and it seems to steady at 223, which IS cooler than upwards of 230, but its a pretty low humidity day so I'm sure that's helping it out. It also seems to run warmer on the highway now for some reason, around 225 at 55 mph, then SLOWLY starts dropping into the teens over 65-70. Air dam is still in place, only changes I made was a 4 1/2 inch short ram aluminum intake, not out the fender anymore and no longer carbon fiber, and the Taurus fan. I'm thinking next step is trying to seal up around the radiator to avoid sucking hot air from around the condenser from the bay, as well as making a heat barrier for the air filter. I also need to try to direct air out of the bay at speed some how. I'm also going to find a stock lsa tune file so I can do what QwkTrip suggested. The car is going for tuning tomorrow, so once the timing and everything is dialed in I'll go from there.

 

Any one have any experience with C&R radiators? Crossflow design can help cooling some, but I’m really interested in moving the top hose over to the passenger side so it doesn’t keep cooking my intake charge.

https://www.crracing.com/product/che...sflow-radiator

 

Do you have these parts laying around? It doesn't look like they're installed in one of your pics above.I think the lower one directs air up into the radiator.The two on the sides keep the air from going around the sides i think.

 

Is your TPS really at 8% at idle, with IAC of 36%?
Is it the drive by wire that keeps it from going to 0% TPS? And I didn't know drive by wire even had an IAC valve. I've never used drive by wire, so just curious.

You guys at the coast have ridiculously high baro pressures!

 

I have the upper side pieces in the shed but I’ll need to fab some of my own to fit with the heat exchanger. I don’t have and have never seen those side pieces in front of the dam, I’ll try tracking some down. Yea its pretty much wide open around the sides..

 

Honestly I don’t know either, and I’m not sure if there’s actually a valve in there or if it’s just using the throttle blade as the valve. If I had to guess I would say the moving of the blade is acting like an iac, it’s just weird they refer to it as such in the software.

 

Are you sure you dont have an air pocket in the block or somewhere else? These motors can be a pain to burp, especially when new, such as yours.

 

For now I would get some air conditioner type foam and seal all the gaps around the radiator core. The air must pass through, not around.
A member here recently did around his heater core and it made a tremendous difference in cooling - the A/C output temp, that is.

 

Shouldn’t be, I had this same problem with the last motor. It runs cool when the ambient temp is under 80.

 

I went for it and ordered these today. Well see what happens tomorrow.

 

I think the pass through will help you a lot when cruising. I have an Ebay shroud that I am not thinking will not be enough. Very curious to see the results.

When you were cruising before, and it would get warm, would your fans just be on all the time?

 

Yea they always run. I haven’t had a chance to send a speed signal to the Holley yet so it can’t see my speed to set a cutoff point. I’m planning on wiring these up separately. So one will come on at a lower temp, then the other after or when the a/c comes on.

 

I went for tuning on Saturday and my tuner was blown away by the baro😂. I have to call Holley because we’re not sure why it’s reading so high. The dyno had a reading of 29.9 while the holley was still over 100. I have the correct map sensor inputted and I couldn’t find a scale to dial in the sensor. We worked around it to get some tuning done, but my fuel pump wasn’t up for wot so we had to stop. Getting the fuel system and cooling issue sorted then we should be finishing up the tune in a week or so.

 

Let's back up. This isn't rocket science. We are chasing this down some rabbit holes. More fan isn't going to do it. I saw that at the beginning of this thread you mentioned a "Lingenfelter 160-deg thermostat" In all of my experience, no matter what you get, thermostats are a roll of the dice. "Premium" is a fancy way of saying you pay more to feel better. I would remove that thermostat completely and see what happens. The thing could be "sticky". Take it out (or at least replace it with an off the shelf one) and see what happens. I reviewed the thread and we seem to have gone passed it.

 

Seems fine to me. 29.9 in-Hg = 101 kPa

Baro is just atmospheric pressure and it's not adjustable. The sensor is inside the ECM (wherever that's located). I think it's inconsequential anyway, as the Holley system doesn't use it for anything as far as I know.

 

I went from a 180, to another 180, to the 160 with the same result. I pulled the thermostat out when I installed the fan and it looked perfectly fine. Also with it sitting around 220 today both upper and lower hoses were the same temp. It seems like the radiator or fan just isn’t shedding the heat fast enough,

 

Tootie may be on to something here.
But in my experience, no thermostat usually means that the coolant travels too fast through the system to get cooled by the radiator. Might be worth a try, though.
On one engine I had, the intake manifold recess for the thermostat was machined too deep and combined with the water neck I was using, the thermostat was sitting in a loose pocket. Coolant was able to flow around the sides of the thermostat when the thermostat was closed. As a result, I was not getting enough heat. You might have a similar, yet different problem.
Thermostats with warped flanges are also a problem.

 

[QUOTE=NoEmissions84TA;6381735]Tootie may be on to something here.
But in my experience, no thermostat usually means that the coolant travels too fast through the system to get cooled by the radiator. Might be worth a try, QUOTE]

That's a myth. You're not trying to "cool" the water. You're trying to exchange the heat into the air. The water may be flowing fast, but the air is constantly flowing and the water constantly circulating. The potential problems with running without a thermostat are aeration and cavitation, which reduces cooling ability of the system...

 

The cooling system itself is 100%. It always has been. Like I said I only started having this issue once I started adding more power. When I had a 5.3 with an ls1 cam and ls6 intake, the car would come down on temp and switch off the fans in any condition. Hell even with the A/C on the fans would cycle. I'm on my second water pump, this one is an lsa pump with under 10k on it. Heater core has been replaced a few years back, 3rd thermostat, hoses are all new, also on my 3rd radiator (stocker replaced with a new stocker, then the current summit unit.) I have also been constantly modding the car every year or so, so the coolant never seems to get more than a year or two on it before it gets replaced. The only thing that ever made a difference in cooling was when I upgraded from stock ls1 fans to the previous Spal's. Also this previous setup was with a base model hood, absolutely no inlet or outlet for air flow. If these Derale fans make absolutely no difference, or even just a slight difference, I'm going to have to figure out a way to vent air from under the hood.

Obviously adding power will add heat, but there should be no reason the thing can't run cool when it's just sitting there at idle with no a/c. I mean the cast iron boat anchor in my trans am runs cooler, and you'll melt your face when you open the hood on that thing! Im assuming the radiant heat coming off the blower lid, headers, and motor are just cooking everything. I mean it would make sense that running the a/c is going to pull even more hot air under the hood making things worse. I can't see cutting any holes in the hood that would improve the look of the car, so I'm open to any suggestions! Maybe I'll add an oil cooler, wrap the headers and add a small fan or two to under the driver side battery tray to suck air into or out of the bay? I'll see what the fans do tomorrow, seal up real good around the gap between the radiator and condenser, then go from there. My next step will probably be piecing together more of the air-dam being I'm missing some small pieces shown above. I'll keep everyone updated.

 

101kpa is regular atmospheric pressure Well at least thats one less thing I have to try to fix!

 

Stop all the fan stuff. Its your small radiator and nothing directing the air into the radiator area because you removed all the baffles that direct the air into it. Your radiator is not up to the job for your cooling needs its TOO small. 3 core or 4 core and you will have this issue solved.

 

You are trying to cool off the hot coolant coming from the engine. To do this we transfer heat from it through the radiator tubes and fins. The ambient air moves through the radiator removing heat from the tubes and fins. The coolant moves through the radiator and back into the engine. If you move the coolant and/or the air too slowly, the heat gets transferred but then it stops as the temperature delta between the surfaces converges. So, we move hotter coolant in (pump) and colder air (fan). As long the exchange rate can keep up with the engine, shouldn't be a problem. If it cannot, the engine will overheat.

All other things being equal, a three row radiator theoretically should have close to 50% more cooling capacity than a two row, and a four row not quite double the two row.

 

Ok. I think I'm on the bigger radiator bandwagon now.

 

This is the case with the a/c running as well? If the lack of airflow over the core is the problem, I should be able to move my heat exchanger, add some bigger fans and be done with it. If I didn't need a/c I would still be running the stock radiator, it didn't give me any issues. It only starts climbing past 230 with the a/c on. When I went to the 2 core the car still ran warm, it just took longer for it to get hot. I feel like going to a 3 core without upgrading the fan is just going to give me the same result, with the a/c on. It'll run cool for a while, until I hit traffic and the air flow over the core isn't enough so it slowly starts getting hotter. Along with the fan install I'm sealing up around the radiator and condenser, plus trying to tilt the bottom of my intercooler to allow airflow up from the dam and into the condenser/radiator. I'm not against upgrading the radiator, I just hate to do it and have the car gradually start getting hot again. There's no room for an extra radiator core AND some beefy fans, so if the fans and moving of the intercooler don't work, I'll ditch them and re-install my Spal's with a 3 core. That being said, what is THE BEST 3 core radiator I can get to cool this thing? I've been jumping through threads from here and ls1tech and all the options have my head hurting. I want a one and done deal on this, I don't care what it costs!

 

 

More ROWS does not necessarily equal more cooling capacity. More rows means more pressure drop from high pressure side to the low side. You want as few rows as possible. Fewer wider rows and a ticker overall core width is going to work better than more rows and the same overall thickness.

You might be at the point where you actually need to calculate your BTU input and the wattage of the radiator and get a PROPER radiator, rather than the cheapest POS you can afford. Mark Steilow is doing more power (likely) than you are and road racing his cars and not getting the temps you're seeing at idle.

You also might want to get some high temp foam and seal the radiator to the condenser in front of it, like a stock radiator had. You may just have an air flow problem where the air is just able to escape around the sides of the radiator since the tanks are not sealed to anything.
I see you have that just a few minutes before my post

 

I ended up going back to Lowe’s and grabbed some soft rubber pipe insulation. That a/c foam was the largest they had in the weatherstripping section, but I’m not sure how much heat it can take. I ran out of butane today so I couldn’t finish the soldering, but I got the fan shroud modified to fit around the steering box and it should be ready to start sometime tomorrow. If time allows I’m going to move the lower mounting point of the heat exchanger as it’s butted right up against the air dam and cannot be helping the situation, even though the car ran cool on the highway.

 

Had to make some brackets to hold the fans and radiator in place. This was long overdue anyway because the top of the radiator has been held in place with zip ties for the past 5 years. I just need to grab some short bolts to attach my bracket to the bracket on the fan shroud, plus a coat of paint and they’ll be done. I was able to utilize existing holes in the core support to install a stud for the brackets to attach to. Also with the top plastic re-installed you can’t even see the brackets. Im probably gonna drill a hole in it and use the bolt for my bracket to hold it in place. Wiring should be done tomorrow.

 

Very clean! Let's hope this does it.

Side question: Do you know if there is room for one of the factory fans to act as an AC condenser pusher?

 

I was going to say to seal that gap at the top, but the plastic cover does that for you.
If this doesn't do the trick, then WTF???
I have to ask, are you 100% sure the water pump is rotating in the correct direction? There is nothing left to check.
Fingers crossed for you.

 

Yea accessory drive has the pump spinning counter clockwise. Here’s the drive I have:

 

Using your picture above, as the engine warms up, the hose coming out of the left side, the thermostat housing, gets hot before the hose on the right, correct? Just another way to verify correct circulation.

 

All cooling systems in all the cars I have ever owned or worked on have the simple paradigm of the hose to the lower bung on the radiator is the suction side of the pump.

M

 

Oh, come on people, he's not a freakin' idiot. Not cool (no pun intended).

 

Ok I finally have a solid direction on where to go with this. Like I mentioned earlier when I upgraded my radiator from stock, the car ran cooler for longer, but eventually got hotter after driving for long enough. So after putting these turbines for fans under the hood today, I’m probably gonna have a problem with sucking squirrels into heat exchanger because thats how hard they pull.

The inital drive seemed extremely promising as when I was burping air from the cooling system, the fans came on at 195 and turned off in what felt like 5 seconds. Like extremely quickly. I was SURE it was solved. I popped the ac on, closed the hood and drove home. It stood at 198 for most the way until I started getting on it. The temp peaked at around 205 (a/c on the whole time) then dropped to 198 as I left it idling while I ran inside to grab something before work. On the way to work it started getting warmer on the highway. I was rolling at 25-30 in traffic with the temp at 215. I sped up eventually and it sat at 215 for most of way there. I came to a stop light and the temp started going down to 198. These fans are bad *** for sure, but by the time I got to work the issue was back. I let it idle in the lot for 10 minutes with the a/c on, and the temp slowly climbed to 218. I turned the a/c off and it got down to 201, fans still running.

So here is when I decided to try something. I put the a/c back on and timed it for 10 minutes. This was the temp reading: (Also my 140 amp alternator is struggling bad with these fans, it dips from 12.5-13.1 most of the time with a/c on. I’m looking into an upgrade)



I then opened the hood, leaving the a/c on, then came back in another 10 minutes. Down to 211.


Left it alone and let it sit for another 10, a/c on and hood open. Down to 206.


Next all I did was close the hood and leave it for another 10 with the a/c still on. Back up to 229!


After this I tested with the a/c off. I popped the hood again and left it running for 20 minutes. Temp came down to 190 and the fans were off!



Soooooo, where do I start to get all this hot air out from under the hood? I was gonna try moving the front and rear hood bumpers up a bit to see if that helps. After that I was thinking about removing the breathers from the catch cans and extending them into the fenders. Two sources of hot oil vapor can’t be helping anything. From there I want to get a dual pass radiator so I can move the upper hose to the passenger side. That intake is right on the upper hose giving me 140’s for an iat just idling with the hood OPEN. Lastly I’ll reluctantly remove the headers and wrap them. I’m also considering going to a smaller heat exchanger because my current one is butt right up against the air dam. Maybe pitching the bottom of it forward or going to a thinner stock zl1 heat exchanger can help with air flow into the bay on the highway. The absolute last thing I want to do is cut a hole in the hood or change it all together. I’m open to any ideas on this!








I also had to cut notches in both side of the core support to fit my intake. The shroud is so thick I couldn’t fit the elbow on the throttle body. Even now its rubbing slightly so I’ll have to cut it out completely and do something tubular, or go down to a slightly thinner radiator. I think the dual pass 3 core champion is slightly thinner than my summit.

Btw kudo’s to whoever said it was high under hood temps. I really didn’t think that was much of an issue with the cowl hood.

 

Not sure if this will be an upgrade or not, but my main goal is to get that intake off the upper hose. 3 core dual pass champion. I couldn’t find a dual pass that was in stock aside from this one. I called up c&r about their 1,000 buck unit but build time takes about 3 weeks and well..A THOUSAND BUCKS. Lets hope the champion doesn't leak..

 

I've had a Champion in a non-thirdgen car for the past 4 years with no issues.
My thirdgen is getting a $750 Griffin unit that sadly won't be in stock for about 2 weeks. I returned the Cold Case radiator I bought, because it wouldn't fit without mods that I'm not interested in doing. Sure looked like a high qualiy unit though...

 

That champion radiator looks just like the summit LSX on for our cars. I am running it too. It only has -16 inlet/outlets which I find smallish but they say is good for 600 plus hp. The C&R unit is amazing and comes with it's own integrated shroud. The lead time is long but they will customize anything on it (-20 inlet and outlet). Board member Chuck! Has it and has pics in his build thread.

 

I noticed that last night as well. I have no complaints with my summit unit, aside for the somewhat poor initial fit. Other than that it's a solid radiator, so hopefully the champion appearing to be the same part as the summit is a good thing. I don't need the radiator right away, but I'm really trying to get that hose re-routed so I can fit my 5 inch intake and lower the iats for a track rental the following week. Just with their fans 1500 is hard pill to swallow, especially after everything I've done in the past few months. Forged bottom end, 5.3 to 6.0, Holley Efi, new seats and sliders, ati super damper. it hurts....and it never ends!

Oh and I'm about to drop 600 bucks on a DC Power alternator because the car surges like mad with the fans, blower motor, and intercooler pump on. The best thing is if this radiator can't keep the car cool on the track, I can get the C&R later, and use the champion in my trans am.

 

Good plan, although I can barely fit a 4" intake with this radiator. The silicone elbow touches the fan shroud. You might struggle with a 5".

 

I'm probably going to notch the upper support so I can tip the radiator forward a little more. Im also going to try cutting the 4 to 5 inch coupler to angle in towards the alternator/upper hose area more. I have a 4.5 on their now, but the 5 inch piping I have is carbon fiber and I couldn't find any in 4.5. That aluminum gets hott compared to my old intake.

 

Looks like that shroud keeps the fan blades too far away from the fins. I forget where i read it, but ideally you want the blades no more than 1" from the fins or they cant pull sufficient air thru the radiator.

 

The fans are really thick. They extend into the shroud quite a bit.