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I used the 4th gen Camaro p/s hose (which is the common advise I found at this site). The metal tube fits good but the rubber hose needs a little persuasion to install.
I used the 4th gen Camaro p/s hose (which is the common advise I found at this site). The metal tube fits good but the rubber hose needs a little persuasion to install.
That's what I did, as well.
Been busy pulling the a-arms for QA1 ext ball joints, AND, Indycar is in my backyard this weekend!! Andretti needs to sign Alonso.
One of my favorite build threads and probably the biggest motivation i had to find another maui blue Formula. Amazing car. Cant wait to see more updates.
Thank you. The project to get this (version 3.0) on the road has unfortunately stalled for the last couple of months.
Waiting for the wiring expert to become available (two weeks has turned into two months) and having very little (actually zero) time myself to do the last few details, and being met with annoying setbacks when I have found the time.
I do not like being dependent on others, but right now, I am depending on my buddy Joe, who has honestly been unavailable due to his schedule and "out of town" status.
SUPPOSEDLY...Tomorrow is the day that he'll be over and we can get the ball rolling once again. I still intend on having this Formula on the road before the end of this driving season.
Thanks again, punzak9, and to all, for your continuing interest.
Got some decent progress yesterday. Joe got about 3/4 of the C100 harness figured out and labeled. We got the LS3 engine harness routed through the passenger side fender. And I got the motor mounts installed. We have an eye towards dropping the engine in.
So its taken my buddy Joe, about 7-8 hours to get the C100 about 97 percent sorted. With his help, the ball is once again rolling.
The fiberglass AC delete heater box has managed to be a pain in the *** at just about every step of the way...
Motor mounts are in.
With temporary power, Joe has activated all internal and external lighting, and raised the headlights. Haven't figured out how to make them go back down yet.
Test fit the motor, and don't break the brake line. You need to verify that you are OK (pan to k-member) before preceding. If you need alterations, you can be doing those while waiting on wiring. Pics of how it sits, please.
Test fit the motor, and don't break the brake line. You need to verify that you are OK (pan to k-member) before preceding. If you need alterations, you can be doing those while waiting on wiring. Pics of how it sits, please.
That's funny.
I can definitely see exactly what you mean. I had to do quite a bit of impromptu re-bending of the brake line over on the passenger side.
I set the motor down in the bay last week, but couldn't get the through bolts/holes to line up. Went and got a couple of decent pry bars to assist, but then started another work week, etc., etc., haven't had time to get back at it. From the looks of it, it's going to clear, but it will be very, very tight between the cross member/brake line, and the pan.
I will update with pictures after a successful test fitting. Wiring expert is supposed to come back out later this week.
Thanks again for this and all your input, TEDSgrad.
Highly recommend you cut and re-box (re: Post 288). It's not that difficult.
Any vibration and your ECM could pull timing out! Those knock sensors can be sensitive. Plus, if you ever have to pull the motor once again....
The only reason to notch your K-member is to allow clearance for overhead engine install. If you install the engine and k-member together by lowering the car onto it, you don't need to notch anything. Except for the AC compressor if you're using the 4th gen one.
Get yourself a lift! You'll love it! Or do you already have one?? I haven't browsed your threads in a while.
I don't have a lift. And I am having all sorts of problems getting this motor to line up. I'm completely frustrated.
It seems that the the bolt holes just wont line up. Too high in the rear - too low in the front, and by the time I'm even close, the whole engine needs to scootch to one side a half inch, but is already resting and impossible to move.
As far as the notching of the K-member, it was my understanding that if I'm not running AC, I would have no problems. However, given the fact that I am using adapted motor mount brackets specific to my exhaust system (which appear as though they position the engine lower than the stock 4th gen brackets) some sort of notching, or replacing of the K-member may be in the cards after all.
In those cases I insert a long punch through one hole and into the engine mount, and then use it to wedge the engine into place. Once the punch is through the mounts then chase it with the bolt (punch will fall out on it's own when bolt pushes it out). Probably have to use a hammer to do this.
If that doesn't work then install the mounts first and then bolt to the engine. This is how I did the second mount with my engine.
Frustration is normal; there is pleasure in overcoming it!
Notching the k-member is not difficult, and solves many issues now and into the future, and no additional cost. Aftermarket k-member is not needed and may be weaker. This is one stock part you should stick with.
As mentioned, you could remove the k-member and re-install with motor w/out notching. This can work, but is still tight, makes the brake line difficult, and doesn't help with any future repairs. It's always best to have ample room for movement!
Good you're using mounts specific to your exhaust. Not familiar with your specific set-up (like what I've seen on TGO), but there is always some tweaking needed. Especially related to the y-pipe.
You've got a lot of help, here on the board. You'll gitt'er done! Pics greatly help our ability to understand what your dealing with.
No, that, I had powder coated. Overkill for sure, but it being practically the one part of the oil pan that's susceptible to rust, I thought I'd go ahead and eliminate that possibility.
I just went through your whole thread. If I were you, I would pull the pan off and strip the PC off that baffle. If the baffle was already in oil at one point, the PC is eventually going to come off being inside the engine, between the heat and the actual oil. Then you're going to suck it up and it is going to go in the oil pump. That baffle is covered in oil all the time, it isn't going to rust. If you take that pan off while it is out of the car it is going to save you a headache in the long run.
I know people are going to disagree with me, and I have yet to see powder hold up over time on a car unless it is a trailer queen. I read all these ads saying how great it is and it can't chip etc. It does.
As you can see, we notched the **** out of it. And still I was unable to line up the engine. always ended up with the the engine dropping as far as it can go, and still needing to drop further in order to get a through-bolt in, and/or the engine needing to be nudged to the left or right, but with no wiggle room to do so.
Now I'm trying this approach, which seems a little more promising (dropping the motor onto the clam shells, gives more room to maneuver). I have figured out that it looks like I'll have to take the passenger side clam shell off, and get the driver side in first, then figure out which way to go on the passenger side.
It could possibly be done, I don't know. But I realize with certainty that I can't do it myself, off my back. A lift or a pit would be great - or at least another set of hands. When I go to work is when everyone else is getting off work. I Can't hold the motor where i need it AND thread a bolt because the legs from the engine hoist are in my way, and my arms aren't gumby.
Really felt like taking a sledge hammer to this today.
OK, this part is just my free opinion (worth as much): Go to your wife and apologize for all the stress and frustration you are bringing into the house from the garage. Tell her she is more important than the car, and thank her for her support thus far. Go out on a date with her, share your frustration with her, and ask her to help alleviate some of the stress . She will be happy that you looked to her for help and support .
Now, coming back to the car with a clear head: Notching looks good, heater core not the problem for you, watch the wiper motor area on install, and remove the starter. Just make sure nothing is contacting (I'm sure you've done this already). The triangle gusset (k-member to frame) looks scratched on driver's side. Accessory hitting? Something as simple as the alternator bolt hitting that gusset can throw everything off (see pic). I removed gussets for install.
Clamshell on the mounts is not a bad idea, though I would try loosening the mounts on the k-member first (easier to tighten if you get it in). If you are really not contacting anything (we all make mistakes, here, triple check), I would suspect the mount positions on the k-member if nothing is really hitting. Keep the mounts loose, get one side in, then see if wiggling around will get the other side to drop in.
Keep the pics coming. We'll get you there. You're not the first to struggle at this point.
I have a tubular k-member but the first time I test fit the engine was with stock k-member and Spohn cradles. I could not line up the engine mounts to install the thru bolts so I eventually installed the engine, with assembled mounts attached (upper and lower assembled to engine), onto the k-member and then dropped the M10 bolts into the k-member. Each bolt pulled the engine into alignment bit by bit until all were in.
I have a tubular k-member but the first time I test fit the engine was with stock k-member and Spohn cradles. I could not line up the engine mounts to install the thru bolts so I eventually installed the engine, with assembled mounts attached (upper and lower assembled to engine), onto the k-member and then dropped the M10 bolts into the k-member. Each bolt pulled the engine into alignment bit by bit until all were in.
Yes. That is what we tried today. We were able to get the driver side loosely bolted on. However, the passenger side still needs to come down and nudge towards the driver side about 1/2, which is more than any wiggle room allows.
I explained this predicament to Holley Tech, and they advised me to return the cradle brackets for a new set. I didn't do this yet because I have a strong suspicion that the new set will be identical to the old ones.
I have heard that, say on a stock LS car, like a 4th Gen F-Body, that the passenger side mounts higher than the driver side. I don't know if that's true, but it would certainly explain the issues I've been having. If that is the case, these Holley brackets do not appear to allow for any such variance.
It just seems that the brackets, whether mounted to the K-member, or mounted to the engine, are just set to narrow to line up properly. I'm hoping it won't come down to making the holes on the K-member bigger/elongated.
I figured it's best to try and get some more information before I start chasing ghosts by ordering more brackets. I wanted to call Hawks, but it was already past 5:00 on the east coast. BADNBLK is running the same Hooker true dual exhaust that I'll be running, and which these cradle brackets are specific to. I PM'ed him. Can call Hawks tomorrow.
OK, this part is just my free opinion (worth as much): Go to your wife and apologize for all the stress and frustration you are bringing into the house from the garage. Tell her she is more important than the car, and thank her for her support thus far. Go out on a date with her, share your frustration with her, and ask her to help alleviate some of the stress . She will be happy that you looked to her for help and support .
Now, coming back to the car with a clear head: Notching looks good, heater core not the problem for you, watch the wiper motor area on install, and remove the starter. Just make sure nothing is contacting (I'm sure you've done this already). The triangle gusset (k-member to frame) looks scratched on driver's side. Accessory hitting? Something as simple as the alternator bolt hitting that gusset can throw everything off (see pic). I removed gussets for install.
Clamshell on the mounts is not a bad idea, though I would try loosening the mounts on the k-member first (easier to tighten if you get it in). If you are really not contacting anything (we all make mistakes, here, triple check), I would suspect the mount positions on the k-member if nothing is really hitting. Keep the mounts loose, get one side in, then see if wiggling around will get the other side to drop in.
Keep the pics coming. We'll get you there. You're not the first to struggle at this point.
Thanks, TED. Very astute. But I promise, I'm not giving my wife a hard time. Not that I'm above it, but she gets home right as I'm going to work, so there's no time for me to take my frustrations out on her. Probably should give her some more time though.
Alternator bolt has rubbed against the triangle gusset, like you said, but only in the course of getting into place. It clears and is not the issue. Starter hasn't been an issue. Its as if the brackets want to rest slightly wider than their respective holes on the K-member will allow.
Yes. That is what we tried today. We were able to get the driver side loosely bolted on. However, the passenger side still needs to come down and nudge towards the driver side about 1/2, which is more than any wiggle room allows.
I explained this predicament to Holley Tech, and they advised me to return the cradle brackets for a new set. I didn't do this yet because I have a strong suspicion that the new set will be identical to the old ones.
I have heard that, say on a stock LS car, like a 4th Gen F-Body, that the passenger side mounts higher than the driver side. I don't know if that's true, but it would certainly explain the issues I've been having. If that is the case, these Holley brackets do not appear to allow for any such variance.
It just seems that the brackets, whether mounted to the K-member, or mounted to the engine, are just set to narrow to line up properly. I'm hoping it won't come down to making the holes on the K-member bigger/elongated.
I figured it's best to try and get some more information before I start chasing ghosts by ordering more brackets. I wanted to call Hawks, but it was already past 5:00 on the east coast. BADNBLK is running the same Hooker true dual exhaust that I'll be running, and which these cradle brackets are specific to. I PM'ed him. Can call Hawks tomorrow.
Much more logical and objective assessment - both in tone and content. You'll get there.
On the pass side, you could try shimming the top two of the clamshell bolts and the outboard side of the mount on the k-member. This will bring the clamshell down and in slightly along with moving the mount inboard as well. 1/2" seems a lot, but if only a 1/4" will get a punch in, then you could wedge the rest inline. It's free and reversible, won't take much time, and you'll find out how close you might actually get (learn something from the try). Use grade 8 washers.
Did you install the engine mount upside down on the engine block? If I remember right, the bolt pattern was symmetrical but the center line of the mount was not. There was a top side and a bottom side to the ls mount on engine block. Then again my memory might be wrong. That's how it is when you get older. LOL
Did you install the engine mount upside down on the engine block? If I remember right, the bolt pattern was symmetrical but the center line of the mount was not. There was a top side and a bottom side to the ls mount on engine block. Then again my memory might be wrong. That's how it is when you get older. LOL
I had the rubber bushings replaced with poly ones. The bushings are flush on one side and have a bit of exposed metal (neck) around the though bolts on the other. I have the side with the metal neck facing the rear on both sides, per the manufacturer. Is it possible that the bushings are in the clam shell backwards/upside down, thus throwing everything off
*EDIT*
...do i have the clam shells upside down???
I've attached some pictures of my motor mounts. I'm using the Spohn/Hawks mounts so my engine sits a little different. The first time I put the LS engine in my car I did it from below. But before I installed it I test fitted the engine/k-member/mounts outside the engine bay. I put the mounts all on hand tight and set the engine onto the k-member and adjusted everything for the best fit. Then I tightnened mounts down on the k-member so I knew they were in the best position where nothing would bind.
I jacked the front of the car up in the air and slid the engine/trans under the car using a creeper. Then I lifted the engine from above with the hoist. With the engine hanging on the hoist I attached the k-member and pulled it all up and bolted the k-member in place. It actually worked well that way and went in very easy. You might want to consider that method if you are doing it alone.
I pulled the engine a couple years later for a cam/head swap and did it from above. It was a little harder that way but not too bad. If I remember correctly I had to take the clam shell mounts off the engine to get it to set down where it needed to be then put the clam shell mounts back on the engine.
I flipped around the passenger side clam shell and could see right away that that was the key. It went in easy. Too easy. As in didn't even require a second set of hands easy. As in I'd feel like less of a dunce had it been a little more difficult.
In my defense, I took the stock mounts to a shop to deal with the original rivets and install the poly bushings. I then got advise from the poly bushing manufacturer to orient both exposed metal cores toward the rear...
Here are some pics of how the engine sits, loosely bolted in.
Sorry for the long delay in any updates. Unfortunately, this is due to the fact that there has been no further progress since getting the 6.2 loosely bolted in. So close, yet so far...
My wiring guy, who wires high end water craft for a living, has been sent all over the place by his company. He was in the Bahamas, was evacuated due to Hurricane Irma, and then was immediately sent back to the Bahamas. Our latest communication indicates that he will be back and ready to concentrate on my project in early to mid October.
If "October" falls through, I will likely pursue a more "retail route", specifically, by sending my LS3 harness to Hawks and buying a TPI chassis harness from them and having them send me back a "plug and play" wiring harness for my car.
This has been quite frustrating for me, having written off any notion of having this car back on the streets this driving season, and I have since begun working on various projects around the house. However, just today, I did jot down an brief "To Do" list in furtherance of the Formula project, mostly small details that I should have done by now, like assembly of the MAF unit, and removal of the throttle cables from both the Formula and the 4th Gen donor car.
Thanks, all, for your interest and advice. It WILL be done, this just happens to be a dark time, as we have stalled out for the time being. This is what happens when you put yourself into a position where you are dependent on others. No ill-will against my wiring guy - he doesn't control his schedule.
Sorry to hear about the delay. Atleast you're able to stay positive and proactive with the car. Cant wait to see the progress once your guy comes back. And the engine looks amazing even just sitting in the car.
Sorry about that, TED. And you're right. I haven't been very active on here lately. The fact that it gets dark here at 5 PM is just a small part of it.
Yes, the project has stalled, but it is dormant, not dead.
My wiring guy, Joe, who showed great promise, basically became unreachable and unreliable after two sessions. He was mostly out of the geographic area due to work, and when I finally got a response from him, he said that probably in mid-October he would be ready to resume work on my project. October came and went, and he was again unresponsive to my calls and texts. Finally, he did respond to a text, and he explained to me that his daughter had been diagnosed with a serious ailment and he and his family were dealing with that. So I cannot fault the man. I can even understand not responding to my attempts to communicate, as when something like that happens, one might feel at fault or inadequate somehow. Hell, there is even an element of that in my failure at keeping this thread alive.
So, while Joe expressed that he is still interested in working on my project, and through out a "maybe in a couple weeks" time frame, I am going to write him off, as he has more pressing issues. I have contacted Bruce at Hawks about purchasing one of their LSX wiring harnesses. Its a thousand bucks, and for a $150 up-charge it should include everything that was lost when I lopped off the C100 harness. So, its looking like that's going to be the route. The question now is whether I want to spend that money and go for the final stretch now (winter, cold as **** in my shop, roads unfit for a pampered car) - or wait until Tax Return Season. I wouldn't go broke on the harness alone, but all the other stuff, (including possible shop time) who knows. Plus Christmas, three birthdays, and my anniversary are all between December and February.
Thank you for kicking me in the *** to post an update here. I really do appreciate your continued interest in this project, and I can promise two things:
I'm already in way too deep to bail on this project.
As soon as there is any progress, I'll post it here.
I haven't forgotten either. My days seem very...tight lately. Not finding a lot of time to post here & difficulty with devoting sufficient time to COTM.
But, I do have an update. Hopefully, this time it works out better than the last.
I have sent the wiring harness to TGO member, 88Greg. For those interested in getting some wiring done, but in over your head technically, I will say that, so far, Greg has been nothing short of outstanding to deal with - seems to know what he's talking about, very responsive, and open to questions - all the things you'd want. Greg promises basically a plug and play harness with all or mostly new hardware when finished - and he's kept me updated with the progress (he just got the harness). Once I have that, I may attempt (with the help of some friends) to make car run - but I don't mind taking it to a shop that is familiar with LS swaps, particularly considering that barely having time to post on TGO doesn't leave a lot of time for putting my car back on the road. But either way, I see no reason that this car won't be patrolling the coast for coyotes and such before summer, seeing as how I don't much care what it takes at this point.
It's been a long time since any updates. The good news is, this project hasn't exactly been just sitting idle. Thanks to 88Greg, we now have what seems to be a very well made plug and play harness - more on that to come. Here are some pics of what's been going on.
Much like QwkTrip, I've ended up with three throttle cables - 3rd gen, 4th Gen, and the Lokar. For now, I am using the Lokar setup because the stock 4th Gen sleeve end doesn't seem to securely mount to the bracket that I had to get for this application. Pictured is the firewall mounting grommet system that I rigged up - identical on the interior side. I still reserve the make use of the factory sleeves and connections at a later time.
Still somewhat confused about how this HVAC vacuum line is to be rigged up. Should these two lines be joined via a T-joint, then ran to the intake?
Pictured above is hopefully the last time this engine will be going in the car. Shout out to my cousin Monte - that cross member notch worked out great. Plenty of room for the pan.
A look at some of the wiring.
Wire loom, a zip tie, and some heat shrink were used to help manage the throttle cable.
Engine is in the car and bolted down. Engine harness can be seen.
eBay came through with the required bracket for this setup. LS3s - ALL LS3s - were made with electronic throttle control in mind - so a special bracket is needed for the cable to clear the MAP sensor, shown below.
I used a Dremel to cut and shape the manifold cover to accommodate the throttle cable bracket.
Okay...so I determined this to be my best solution for now - just didn't dig the Hawks CAI. I'm going to have my cousin, Monte make an aluminum box to roughly the same dimensions as the SLP box, but with the opening on the "inside wall" rather than at the top. If it goes well, it should be a pretty sweet setup.
As for this kit - AIR RAID CAI Master Kit ($300+)- umm...Master Kit, my ***! It comes with one (1) coupler...WOW! I ordered four extra couplers just to be safe.
06-18-2017, 06:22 PM
Andretti needs to sign Alonso. 
. She will be happy that you looked to her for help and support 
.
