After selling the IROC, and mourning the loss of my GTA, I finally added another third gen to the stable - an 86' Trans Am.

Story goes that a previous owner bought the car as a project for him and his son. Son didn't care, dad got sick with cancer, and the car ended up sitting idle until about a year ago. Person I bought it from purchased the car as a parts car for his 88', but ended up basically abandoning it in his parent's underground parking before ever laying a finger on it. Then I came across it listed as a parts car for $1200, and figured I might as well make the 20 minute drive to see it for kicks. I had almost 0 faith in it being decent, but for those of you who are familiar with my IROC story, you'll understand the thought I had buried in the back of my mind. Sure enough I get there and see a car so covered in dust that you'd barely know it's black, but behind that dust is no important rust, a set of GTA wheels wrapped in brand new tires, a perfect dash, and a full immaculate black cloth GTA interior. Shebang. Then I open up the hood and see a carb'd something that very well could be an LG4 that originally came in the car, but without seeing the SPID anywhere, and not remembering what the vin digit stood for, I really don't know. I've only had TPI's so my visual inspection skills with anything other than such, well, suck. Anyways, the battery was stone dead so I went and scooped a cheap battery from CT, and sure enough that mystery motor blazed right up and ran better than any TPI I've ever had. Put it in gear and it lurched violently like most 700R4's do, so I can only assume that's what was attached to the other end of the shifter. So as of right now, I'm $1200 deep in to a running, driving, solid, excellent looking T/A. I've been battling a hell of a flu so the car is still in the underground until tonight, which is when I plan on sticking plates on and driving this 35 year old abandoned car across 2 cities in a good ol' Canadian blizzard to get it home. What could go wrong?

 

 

These are the only pictures I have so far, but I'll take some more tonight. It looks like hell inside right now but it's actually in good shape, just dismantled. Sketchy radio wiring needs to go, I need to find a new map pocket, shifter plate surround needs to get replaced with an original, but otherwise we're good. Wrong steering wheel but I like it and it's in good shape so it'll stay around for now. All of the trim and stuff is in the back seat and trunk, and I'll be putting it back together as soon as I have some free time. First order of business is get it home, then give it a BATH, then start the check list of third gen issues and see what this ol' girl needs.

 

It looks like a great starting point and for $1,200, it was a great buy! You might want to find a friend with a trailer.......old gas, old fuel pump, what could go wrong on the drive home😜

 

Third gen's have kept me pretty close with my boys at CAA, so I'll make sure I have a flat bed on standby! Honestly it will probably be the damn headlights that fail me.

 

Did you try them to see if the doors open? Even with a flatbed fee, you got a great deal! I wouldn’t have walked away without buying it and I’m not a Firebird guy.

 

Didn't think to and didn't really care honestly. Not only was I already sold on everything else, but being too sick to stand for more than 30 seconds was occupying my focus haha. Price aside, finding third gens up here of any sort that aren't completely rotten is almost impossible. Even if that motor was knocking or non existent, I likely would have still pulled the trigger. I'm really looking forward to bringing this car back to life

 

No AC eh? Probably no big deal up north.

Map pockets are an easy fix. Usually you can peel back the vinyl, pull out the cardboard insert, slip in a new insert, replace the elastic if necessary and they're good as new. The velcro TA style usually don't get too bad what with the velcro.

Anyway, good looking start to a project. Watch for fuel leaking around the mechanical fuel pump, the diaphragm likes to rot with age then they'll leak like the weep hole on a waterpump, slow at first then you'll stop for gas and someone will point out you're pouring gas on the ground under the front end.

 

Congrats on the new Trans Am Rkeats, looking forward to seeing it in person soon. $1200 is a great price for a non-rotted thirdgen.

 

We do have some days here that it gets quite hot in July-September, but usually you're okay without it. It doesn't get "Texas" hot here.

 

Do you have a pic of what stock valve covers look like on an LG4? I remember the ones on this car looking like they came off a 74 Caprice. This motor doesn't excite me regardless of what it is, but I am a fan of originality, so I'm sort of hoping that it is.

 

I couldn't care less about A/C in a ttop car. I'm a sucker for convertibles, and unless it's pounding rain, those tops are going to be off any time that the car's out

 

As a northern New Yorker that thing is a steal at that price in that shape, good find.

 

Not handy, but an LG4 would probably have the typical basic steel valve covers with all the welded brackets for wire looms, etc. They'd have been painted black by then. Blue would be 82 and earlier, they were Orange until 75 or 76. 85-86 TPI engines had the nicer silver valve covers. Can't remember at the moment if the CFI or L69 cars had anything other than the standard black steel covers.

 

Thank you! That's $1200 CAD too, so really I bought it for $900 US.

 

So we've uncovered a few small demons. Not really too concerned considering I can re-coupe my money in the wheels and interior alone IF I decide to sell it. Went to pick up the car last night and this time it decided to run like absolute garbage. Super rich with a heavy smell of gas and dark exhaust. I thought that maybe I flooded it while trying to start it, but it never really seemed to level back out. With the idle so low and choppy, I didn't want to harm anything by keeping it running so I just had it towed back to my shop. Anyone have any ideas? I know they're fairly simple but I have very little experience with carb'd motors, so any guidance is helpful!

Another thing that I uncovered is that well, the floors are gone. Or at least the front sections. When the car was up on the flat bad, I took a better look underneath and sure enough, a square foot has been cut out on both sides, with a patch of sorts covering it up. I was so damn sick when I first looked at the car that I didn't really crawl around underneath, so it's my own fault. I don't really care though honestly as the part that was cut out should be a cheap and straight forward repair, and the rest of the underside looks really good! I'm going to lift up to carpet when this snow stops and see how the patch looks, and who knows, it might be usable.

#3, which is the only thing that I'm genuinely nervous about, is that it looks like someone has done a lot of poor touching up of the paint. The car still has 3 inches of dust on it, but when it was up on the flat bed, the lights were exposing a few mysteries under the dirt. As soon as the car get's a good bath, we'll see how the paint looks and decide whether or not to cash out on a quick flip, or spend some money on a good paint correction.

 

There are positives here though! I still had to drive the car out of the underground, and though it was running badly, it drove like a cloud. Steering felt perfect and tight, suspension felt right, and it seemed to shift well through the 2 or 3 gears I got it through. When it was outside, I noticed that it sits quite high on all 4 corners. So without actually looking underneath, I'd be willing to be that the majority of the suspension components are new. The tires all around have never even been driven on so at least some maintenance was being done, and I don't see what else would have the car sitting this high.

The other nice little surprise was that everything worked perfectly! Headlights flip up like a Mike Tython upper cut, windows work, all dash lights are bright, and even the power locks work! I also opened up the hatch to see that it's LOADED with stuff. Interior parts mostly, but hidden underneath is a Haynes manual, some aftermarket audio stuff, and who knows what else. There may be some decent treasure in there.

Either way, I still feel pretty good about the car. I either payed $1200 for a car that I can enjoy this summer, or I payed $1200 for GTA wheels with new tires, a perfect dash, and a perfect GTA interior.

 

 

Sure looks to me like your glass is way more than half full and not half empty. Great buy on a cool car, you're going to have a lot of fun, enjoy the journey.

 

That's how I'm feeling! I'm also pretty confident that a tank of good clean gas will have it running as it should. There's less than 1/8th of a tank in there now, and that gas is likely a few years old

 

Fresh gas, seafoam, carb cleaner, fresh filters, carb rebuild... lots out there on that stuff. My best Qjet was a reman without any of the electro junk. Ran as good as efi, assuming I did my part and was driving it regularly. BTW if it's an export car originally, it might have escaped the factory with a non-compy carb and a regular vac advance distributor, in which case SCORE!

So when you gonna KITT clone it?? Be sure to let everyone know you want to be called the Night Rider now. If you suggest it, maybe it won't stick?

 

I put a half tank of premium in and let it idle for 5 minutes or so and she started waking back up. Still a little sketchy under acceleration but we'll sort that out. I did rip it down the street and back and it actually hauled pretty well! A little sauce got the rear tire(s?) spinning so that's at least something.

Ordered the full dash, nose piece, and a 10ft wide pride flag because let's be honest, nobody who does a KITT conversion is on the straight and narrows.

 

Anyone able to help identify this motor?

 

Bet its an LG4 but who knows on a 35 yr old car. Id pop a valve cover and see what # is on the cylinder head. Maybe you will get a surprise and see that its been swapped to a 350. Will still be a cheap and pretty straight forward swap to a 350 down the road that's the good thing about these LG4 cars. Very cool car I think you got a good deal for sure!

 

does the motor have a number on it?

 

I don't see a MAP sensor on the cowl flange. So it's non-comp controlled or wasn't a carbed car from the factory... LOL

Check the VIN, 8th digit is an H for the LG4.

To figure out what it is now, you'll want to find the casting number behind the head on top the bellhousing. Pull a VC and get the casting numbers off the head. Finally check the stamped pad in front of the passengers head under the alternator. If the partial VIN behind the alternator matches the VIN on the car, it's the original engine. You'll want to check all three numbers and potentially both heads since it's not terribly uncommon to find a previous owner mismatched the heads, or changed the short block, but not the heads, and some rebuilds remove the stamps.

 

Looks like you have some turbo manifolds missing turbos

Looks like a great score man, look forward to seeing its progress!

 

Does seem odd to see heat stoves on both manifolds. From what I can see the car is well worth some time and money to get decent.

 

Did the dual snorkel air cleaner have stoves on both sides ?

 

Negative, but export cars tend to get odd.

 

Thanks for the compliments fellas. Knowing how brutally honest the TGO community it, it's up-lifting to know that you guys believe in her so far. The car's unfortunately outside right now as I just have it sitting at my work, so I just went out to brush off the foot of snow that it got buried it over night. If it isn't heartbreaking enough to see her left to the elements, it seems mother nature claimed my driver side mirror as pay back for the horrible rich exhaust I've been revving in to her lungs. It almost looks as if it's caving in to the door, which would just be fantastic, but it's tough to see under all the ice. Either way, not too difficult to hunt down a black Firebird door. As for Drew's suggestion, I plan on trying to locate the casting numbers at some point today.. it's just too damn cold to play with exposed metal outside right now so I'm choosing my cozy office instead.

 

WTG, lotsa time, it'll be good

 

I love it!!
Rock on Keats!
Ya saved so much $ on the purchase you can take this project in any direction!
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-engines-and-...-km/1487007786

 

That would be sweet, but my skills are preventing me from figuring out how to keep this current motor running for more than 3 minutes, so I think I have some more learning to do before tackling an LS

 

Well even just a clean up, ID the engine, and some basic maintenance followed by a proper (enticing) kijiji ad could be a fun flip leaving you with more money in your pocket once thirdgen4sale season really begins in a month or two!

 

I am NOT seeing all the emissions "stuff". Either it was removed, or you got really lucky with a non computer controlled car.
Nice find.

 

Congrats on the purchase RKeats!

 

Were LG4's available from factory without ECM's? If so, assuming this IS the original 305, then score. I tried to pull the car inside to give it a bath on Friday and it didn't even make it up the little ramp to our bay door before shutting off and refusing to stay running again, so I've got a tech taking a peek at it to see if anything comes to mind. I'd really like for this idiot to at least run well enough to drive around again like it was before. Poor thing is just stuck outside with the ttops leaking like a faucet

 

In Canada, yes.

Magic 8-ball points to a carb problem. In some ways a carb is simple, in other ways it's a massive mechanical Rube Goldberg device, and any part that doesn't work exactly right can cause major problems. The beauty of it is it's self contained. The trouble is new cars haven't used them for nearly 40 years. Most of them are old, worn out, and no one knows how to work on them. Best running Q-jet I ever had was a brand new replacement. Ran beautiful, pump the gas once, bump the key and it was running. Last one I had, must have had three different used Qjets, made one 'good one'. It ran pretty good, but I never did get the choke to work exactly right. Pretty sure it was a combination of wear and lack of experience. Took the rest of the parts and had a local carb guru build another 'good one'. Put that one on a buddy's car. Ran perfect right out of the box. I presume it'd still work perfectly if he ever drove the car, but it spent too much time in storage and began having starting problems after a couple years. Ethanol gas doesn't help.

 

What about how the car ran perfectly when I first saw it, then starting running like garbage when I came to pick it up? It wasn't touched by anyone in between, so what do you think could be happening? Could it literally just be the fact that it's been freezing cold every time I've tried to run it?

 

In my experience with 25+ years of carbed motorcycles, If they have been sitting for a while starting them up (and it runs fine) can break junk loose in the carb and when you go back to run them again later it's a struggle. Like Drew said, old worn out carbs aren't going to do you any favors either. Sometimes the stars align and the worn dirty parts work perfectly, other times they will fight you every step of the way.

I'm not sure what your plan is for the car, but it might be worthwhile to either get a new replacement carb or have the current carb rebuilt before taking any additional steps forward.

 

Ethanol gas has a habit of turning into gelatinous goo that attacks surfaces. It's possible you sucked something nasty out of the tank or fuel lines into the carb, or from the fuel bowl of the carb into the metering passages. You can try fresh gas, cleaners like Sea Foam, spray a few cans of carb cleaner all over inside and out the carb, try to knock any crud off and out. It could work, or it might not. You could also have flexible rubber bits like the accelerator pump seal that could have dried out and gotten hard from age and exposure, that could theoretically have worked fine the first dozen times you hit the gas, but now the lip may have torn or cracked. Or the float could have decided to sink, or the needle and seat could be blocked by some flotsam and jetsam. There are just so many ways to make a carb not work properly and only one way to make it work perfectly. But look at the bright side, there aren't 8 injectors, or a dozen sensors, or a computer with less tech than an Atari 2600 under the dash, so there's that.

If you do replace the carb, you may want to make sure the tank is cleaned out, the fuel lines too, replace any and all filters, etc so that you don't accidentally just pump more trash into a new carb.

 

You guys are awesome. When the weather breaks, I'll go out and identify exactly what carb is on there now, and price out a few options. Can't imagine a basic replacement or rebuilt would hit the wallet too hard. Any suggestions as to a good replacement for general driving? Assuming this is an LG4 of course. I see a lot of Holley suggestions, but I'm not familiar with specifics

 

looks like LG4 my 87 had when I bought in 91


Drew you did it again good thing I didn't have just taken a drink- It woulda been spat out LOL! I was thinking wash it off
Nice score Keats I wanna see what you do with this one

 

Well there's a slim chance that I might just flog it as I just got offered a green 91' GTA for a steal. For those of you who followed my other thread, you'll understand why that car would take the cake over really any other Third Gen to me personally. Stay tuned for what tomorrow brings

 

A stock replacement Qjet for a Canadian LG4 would hit the spot. Or back up to about a 1980-ish car application. Go too early and the fuel inlet changes, trucks have the vacuum secondary can on the back, get too far off and the earlier carbs don't have the fuel bowl vents for the charcoal can, etc. Assuming the car is a 700R4, the canadian spec carb would match up best with regards to the TV cable linkage.

Holley made a bolt on replacement for the Qjet. They're not terribly common. The typical 4150/4160 Holley 4bbl is a square bore, like an Edelbrock, and usually requires an adapter/spacer, which then requires a funny air cleaner to fit under the hood. Not to mention the spreadbore Qjet will get better gas mileage. Holley made a spreadbore 4bbl that's styled like the 4150, but aside from matching a spreadbore intake, everything else still hooks up differently. Having been down the Holley to 80s sbc adaptation road, it's much easier to stick with a Qjet.

 

Carburetors really don't like to be left sitting without being run. Probably crud in the float bowl got knocked loose when you started the engine, and is clogging things up.

Trying to find a stock replacement carb is going to be difficult; with all the production changes that occurred through the model years, there were many variations in those old Qjets. And replacing one with an aftermarket carb is also an issue, especially regarding the linkage/TV hookup/vacuum lines. The old Holley 'spread bore' replacement, while it would actually directly bolt onto the intake, left the linkage hookup (they supplied a bag of all kinds of hardware to "adapt" the linkage of many GM cars) up to the fabrication skills of the car owner. Adapting the factory air cleaner was also another hurdle.

IMO, the best carb for that engine is the one on it now; find a rebuild kit (I know; it's gonna be tough), and go through it. If the carb has never been previously disassembled, there should be a metal tag with the specific part number of the carb attached to the carb top plate by one of the screws. As has already been mentioned, you'll also need to deal with the rest of the fuel system before you run the engine on the rebuilt carb.


GL with your parts search; that car is definitely worth the effort.

 

I would have thought so too, but pulling up an 85 Camaro with a 305 on Rock Auto and scrolling through the carb options, right there in the options is a Qjet for an auto trans without a solenoid which would be non-computer controlled. Not exactly cheap, but given everything not exactly expensive either.

 

The beauty of paying $1200 for the car means $400 doesn't really do any harm! That's a reman though, so I can likely have mine rebuilt for significantly less. I've already come across a few places that are knowledgeable with the qjet's, it's more a matter of figuring out what's actually in my car. It's pounding rain today but clear and fairly warm tomorrow, so when my passenger seat is done getting a nature bath from the ttop faucets, I'm going to dive in to the car and figure a couple things out.

 

If I can't find anything obvious to identify what the carb is, would you guys be able to identify it by a few good pictures? When the rain stops I'll take off the air cleaner and grab some good detailed pics