Well, here is how it all started. My brother wanted to sell me his 02 SS 4th gen for $19,000, which is a good price and I really love the car. After thinking long and hard I decided I really love my thirdgen and want to put some serious cash into it now instead of selling it and buying my brothers car. So I am taking some money out of my savings and putting about $7,000 into my car. First I am going to put in the new gas tank along with the 85 Vette TPI fuel pump. I will also put in a new sending unit from a 89 Iroc and convert all of my fuel lines to AN fittings in preparation for the tpi swap. Next will be a new AGR fast ratio steering box cause mine leaks really bad. Then I plan to install my tranny shift kit and Vette servo, etc. Then comes the best part, the tpi. I am going to order the lower manifold and runners from Edlebrock and buy the rest of the parts used. The wiring harness will come from painless, and I will buy the computer and distributor new as well. Last but not least will be doing some body work to the car and having it painted and all of the new weatherstrip installed. All of this is money permitting of course. I am setting some priorities in case I run short of money in the middle of doing all of this, and I will deal with that when and if it happens.

Well, sorry it's so long, what do you guys think? I have some questions for you. Since I don't have the center bolt valve covers do I have to get the tpi with the 9th cold start injector, or can I go with the 89 setup? Remember I will be ordering the 85-88 style manifold cause it's drilled right for my heads. Are there anyways I can get around using the 9th injector, I heard it sucks? Oh, when I go to find some used parts for the tpi such as the upper plenum, fuel rails, etc. what years does it have to be from, 85-88, or 89 or just any year? Thanks guys for the help and opinions.

 

try to get all the tpi parts of the same year the base will be for the early head(85/86) runners would be 85-88 and there are 3 different plenums 85-88, 89, 90+ I think thats the years but not sure. nothin wrong with the 9th injector most delete it cause you don't really need it and its ugly, to delete it just get fuel rails from a 89+ car

you could always grab some 87+ heads to open more doors, plus you would get a nice hp increase 'cause they would raise your compression a little

 

Hi Will-

forget about the 9th injector set-up...garbage.

the base should have holes that will meet up with old style and newer heads. like my tpis big mouth. get a puter from a 89' 350 (122671) or something like that part number. Get the 89' or newer runners w/o 9th inj. plen should be universal.

 

Well Will,
I thought you were going to be the special kid with the CFI but noooooo, now you have to change it huh...

Definitely Get the nice base and runners like you have planned, then an '89+ rail and AFPR would be a nice compliment to a ported plenum.

But IMHO with $7000 to blow and an already clean car, I would build something nuts like a 'Charged 406.

 

Bold move Will, sounds like you have a lot of plans.
I am glad you'd rather invest in your 3rd gen than waste 3x as much on a 4th as nice as it may be.

I agree with the statements to try to stick with the same parts from the same years.
Too much mix and matching could be a nightmare later for diagnosing as I'm sure some of these guys will tell ya.

Sounds like you plan to stay TPI like I am and are going for the same setup that I have with the Edelbrock base/runners.
Make the best out of it and have everything ported.

Unmodded TPI I'd guess will only give you 30-40 more hp/tq over your current setup, so you might want to do some research on heads and/or cam if you're interested in going that route.

I'm sure you can budget a much faster car along with finishing up the exterior how you want it.

P.S. - Make sure to run it at the raceway before you begin the swap.
A baseline to show improvement is priceless.

 

nice move will i would go for heads setup too...they are far too restrictive. the edelbrock is a decent base with some slight port work...as far as the runners and plenium id go with a super ram so that it is carb legal....and the edelbrock is drilled for both head styles. i dont know if they are still there but pick n pull had 2 tpi setups when i went last sunday probably gone by now... sunrise location.

but id be glad to help you with your port work for dinner

 

last I check edelbrock has a base for:
early heads pre-87
center bolt heads 87+ genI sbc
vortech heads

plenums are NOT universal you have two different MAF plenums and a speed density plenum search the TPI boards there is a couple threads with pics of the plenums side by side, there's also two different throttle bodys

like I sad before nothin wrong with the "9th injector" and it has nothing to do with the computer its controlled by a thermo time switch just like every other cold start valve

I believe the computer on the MAF cars are all the same(excluding '85) the prom is different, but '89 did have the best tune

-edit- I searched '86-'89 TPI's all used the 165 ecm

 

Terrell seems to have it down.

86-89 are all the same ECM, but the '89 has the better Mask (Calibration) ($6E).
Not that that matters too much, you'll need prom tuning anyways.

 

you wont need it, but its always a bonus.

are you going maf or Speed density?

 

Wow, thanks guys for all of the help and info so far. I can barley keep up with all of it, and some of it is way over my head but I am sure I will learn a lot with this project along the way. I like the ideas and keep them coming. Terrell, I am going to stick with what you said, I like your ideas. Sounds like I should just find a tpi setup from a 89 iroc and stick with that. This way parts are not mixed up and from all sorts of years, plus I would like to avoid the 9th injector if possible. The only thing that would be different would be the base and runners from edlebrock. Del, I do plan to stick with tpi and port as much as possible. I have heard from other cfi members the same figure of 30-40hp gain, and it's much needed on my choked engine. Eric, dinner is no problem for some porting work, sounds like a plan to me. Anyway, thanks again guys and I will keep you updated, pics will be along the way as well.

EDIT: I do plan to run the car before I make the swap, it's a must and I want to see the difference. Travis, I am going with maf.

 

sweet

 

Sounds good and all Willie, but I always thought that your car was always different because of the CFI.

Why don't you buy a nice IROC-Z and mod the h*ll out of that?

Just another idea.

 

i want you to swap to TPI and go to some crappy vette CFI forums and be like, "Hey guys, i chopped up my pristine CFI car and turned it into a prestine IROC wannabe!!!" and watch them all flame you, and then give us a link.

 

"Flame On!"

 

Vin, buying a Iroc wouldn't solve and get my ultimate agenda done. I am not so much interested in making my car fast as I am making it look good and restored. Sure buying a Iroc and making it fast is possible, but putting the same money into my current car gets me a sweet looking ride and tpi and that's what I want. Plus, I have a new crate motor and tranny in my car along with a lot of other stuff and I know what has been done and how it has been done. With another car I will be starting over and it's just not worth it.

Travis, that sounds like a sweet idea and it would be hella funny. I will do it once the swap is done and let you guys know what happens.

 

Will I think my point is that to me you're car already does look good and restored

Keeping the CFI just adds to the freak value IMHO, so my alternative would be to get an IROC that already has TPI and mod that.

But maybe you shouldn't listen to me, I have too many ******g cars

 

let me sum up the above post for you Will, this is what Vin really ment to say:

 

Do whatever you want bro, it's a free country!

/rant off

 

lol, thanks for the compliments Vin. I only wish my car looked that good still in person. Trust me, it needs some work now and that pic is old.

 

...minor work..

 

all our cars need minor work

will stay with the 83 how many do you see around these days pre 85 ....not too many

i loved my 83 too bad the motor was a pile of ****... im still kicking my *** for only selling it for 1g

 

I love my 83 , even though its the 2.8 peice of crap, are you gonna keep all your CFI parts? so if you want to you could swap back to CFI? or are you just gonna junk it?

 

you should smelt the cfi.

and make beer cans out of it.

 

im sure some of the restores would want all the cfi compoents hell i would keep it just to say i have the compoants if i ever wanted to swich back to cif

 

I know this may sound crazy guys, but I am considering buying a different thirdgen instead, check the link below and let me know what you guys think. Stay with my plan or buy this car instead?

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=294696

 

i dont know its a hardtop

if you bought it, you would spend all your money on it and it would be bone stock.


i say keep your current plans that way you still have that fresh crate engine and you get a better performance tpi on it.

 

Only 40k miles, sweet.
Looks just like Bennie's, color aside, his has 40k something too.
I bought mine with 46k on it, for half what he's asking.
Not that I think you'll find that kind of deal, but that once you spend 7-8k on a low miler like that, you're already in the hole value wise unless you find another colector someday and haven't torn into it much.

That said. ..
I'd stick with your current plans.
I'm sure you have a lot invested in the '83 already.
You can paint it and get it faster for less than the 8G's that guys wants.

 

that car is not worth 8 g's id pay 6 the most, its clean ITS RED WOOO!, but you have alot into your current project...you know its problems and such i wouldnt want to sell it you have that crate motor, and crate tranny.

that one you have no clue what is wrong with that one, and as everyone else said youd have no go fast money to spend on a stock l98 tpi...

 

When it comes to stock low mile third gens, the value is in the eye of the beholder.
Nada guide would say about $6,000.
When it comes down to it though, how many of those are left out there?
Not many, so people can hold out and find the right collector.
I'm sure on eBay it might fetch 7-8.

 

truth be told I would buy another thirdgen for the fact that you have a clean running CFI and switching to TPI will cost $$$ when you could by a clean Iroc/Z28/formula/GTA for about $4000

keep the CFI and by a TPI or carb'd thirdgen

 

Is there really no other way to make a CFI faster?
What is your goal for the car? 14's?

I personally think you should retain the CFI as that is what makes it original and figure out what to add to it.
Cam? Nitrous? Something must make it fly!?

Starting over with another 3rd gen could be dangerous.
Motor/tranny could go out, other problems will arise.
All that for just 30-40 more hp?
You have a good foundation now.
I'm sure you can add onto your current investment and achieve an all around product.

 

a cam and better heads will help just pick a cam that fits the rpm range of the cross fire. exhaust would be a must

 

Thanks guys for all of the help and info so far. I have decided to stick with my car for sure. Del, the goal for my car is low 13's. There are CFI cars that do that and better but it takes a lot of time and money, although getting a TPI car to do that would probably take more or the same. I like the idea and look of tpi, now you got me torn between the two, damn you Del, lol. I still think I will stick with my tpi plan though. Anyway, I will keep you guys posted. Things are going to start rolling next week with Bennie doing the gas tank swap along with new lines and pump, sending unit, etc. Pics will be on the way.

 

It's amazing what a little time and research can find.. .
You can thank me later for the thousands of dollars I'm about to save you from doing a TPI swap and the happiness of being able to retain the CFI.
Also, some great facts on what the actual power is that you have.
Feast your eyes on the X-Ram my friend.. .
For those of you not familiar with CFI in general, here's some good info too.




The Crossfire intake was used on 3 vehicles, the Corvette, Camaro Z-28, Firebird T/A and a few select trucks, all between the years of 1982 and 1984.

How much more horsepower can be expected?
This is really a tough question. We have tested over 40 stock Crossfire's, including 82’s and 84’s. All Corvette's tested had multiple previous owners and were in various levels of condition.

Chevrolet quoted 200 net hp for the 82 Corvette and 205 net for the 84 Crossfire Corvette's. The only real deference between the two was the exhaust system and a slight weight difference. The computer chips were even the same.

Figuring a 20% drive train loss in horse power, all 350 Crossfire's tested should have produced 160 to 165 hp at the rear wheels. None did, and only a few came close.

All the Crossfire Corvettes tested with horsepower ranging between 118 to 146, were totally stock. A few needed a good tune-up with 118. Most averaged between 122 to 128. A few with free flow exhaust, under drive pulleys, 160 degree thermostat & fan switch, K&N air filter, new or rebuilt distributor with 9 mm wires and AC platinum plugs, a stage 2 performance chip and Mobil 1, 5W30 oil produced a range of 133 to 146.

The X-Ram with the addition of a 85 Tuned Port Fuel Pump was also tested on each one of these cars and produced and average of 171 to 217 horsepower. That was an increase of 53 to 71 horsepower at the rear wheels.

What kind of a difference will it make?
Every engine is different and in various levels of condition, but the average show 1 to 1.5 seconds quicker in the quarter mile and 8 to 12 mph faster.

Is it California emission legal?
We do have an EGR Adaptor kit for the X-Ram now to make it legal for California Smog testing. We do not carry a Calif. exempt number however.

How much does it cost?
As of January 2, 2004, the cost of the X-Ram $425.00 per unit.

http://www.x-ram.com

There is a wealth of information at the above link about adding the right cam, roller rockers, etc to complement the X-ram and gain even more power.
This will get you closer to your goal, from a 16 sec. ride to at least a high 13 with the right components to complement it.

The figure below is from a 350 'vette after the upgrade, so I assume with the weight and just in general you are around a high 15 at best right now.

Standing Quarter Mile
Class D Stock / Automatic
From 15.6 second @ 86 mph
To 14.3 seconds @ 97 mph

 

i am skeptical of those claims, a "quick" search on tgo yields not alot, there is a reason there isnt alot of cfi peformance stuff out there IT SUCKS, haha

i say go for it will, there is much more support in the aftermarket world for tpi...

edit:and the 7grand isnt for just switching to tpi, id say a good estimate is 1600, between aftermarket runners, wiring harness, fuel pump, ect, he wants to get some paint and other stuff done..

btw KEEP THE GREAY its a good color.

 

you don't believe the claims of the X-ram but you think a super ram will give you 60hp what kind of is that

I say get the X-ram it cost about the same as intake and runners for a TPI throw a couple $$ at the CFI and see how it turns out

-edit-
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...highlight=xram

check out this thread something about a cross-ram say's its better that the x-ram. its similar to the old GM cross ram used on the 302 camaros they made 450hp@7200rpm with that intake on a 302

 

Haha, yeh I just came across that link too.
You need to search within topics Eric, not just titles.
Lots of good ideas for the CFI, just limited in choices.


I know what he meant for using the 7 thousand for, I didn't say it was all going for the swap.

BUT it would cost well over 2 thousand for what was listed.
- runners
- manifold
- plenum
- maf
-wiring harness
-computer
-distributor
-fuel rails
-porting
what else?
definately going to need tuning after all that
and let's not forget about labor, doubt all that work would be done by himself.

They give a fairly good range of the power gains, 50-70, of course you always should be conservative and pick the lower.
It is not that impressive a gain when you think about it because of how restricted the CFI is in the first place.
Not to mention the gains that can be had now from simple things like exhaust/pullies, etc.
Those items would only net 8-10rwhp before because of the restriction.
Opening it up with the 'ram will increase the benefit.
Lots of examples, before and after dyno #'s are given on the site.
Will has probably heard of it already, not sure why it wouldn't be considered instead of all the work for just TPI.

 

why not switch to carb, you camaro would be in the 13's with a carb(Q-jet for emissions) and exhaust

 

60hp on a built motor yea, but stock no at a certain point the tpi becomes restrictive

 

so lets take this built motor, put tpi on it, dyno it, then put super ram on it and dyno it again.

i dont remember them mentioning that in their +60hp gains.

 

Bah, who cares, just slap those bitches on and show your results.

 

Super Ram is the ticket for Ca. emission legal TPI's, no doubt about it.

SR will make 60+ hp on a warmed over motor, but not on a stock L98...not even sure a stock L98 would spin 6500 without valve float...need the R's to make the HP.

That X-ram, poor choice when SmogTechLeo is having a bad day and wants to see the exempt numbers

Won't comment on the "well over 2 grand" thing, anyone who wants to convert an F-Body to TPI to run low 13's can get by for less than a grand...
Used complete TPI setup's with wiring/dizzy/ecm, etc, are had for 300 or less, add runners of your choice, base is fine..spend an hour with a diegrinder and a bottle brush hone, 40 bucks for fuel line another 100 for the pump, 40 for gaskets and your time...Did I miss anything?

Ofcourse if you want "all new stuff", it will cost you, but not necessary for the goals laid out above.

 

8Mike9 - Lots of good points there, and it sounds like you have the means to knock it out for a cheaper price doing it yourself, but that's probably not very probable for wills83z28cfi.

The X-ram will pass smog in CA and that's all that really matters.
He won't have a problem with a tech looking for the exempt #.

Theoretically, I'm sure the swap alone could be done for less, but. ..
The Edelbrock setup as it is, goes for $6-700.
Add the super cheap and complete junkyard TPI you speak of for $300, which I guess includes everything huh?
Maybe another $100 for misc. parts and you're at $1000.
It is his only mode of transportation, so undoubtedly a local shop would help him out and do the labor.
Maybe around $500 at best assuming all goes well.

That being said, you've still just made the car a high 14.

I just thought it might be kinda interesting to see how fast one could go with it and preserve the uniqueness of the car.
But to each his own.

 

I think with the tpi will would be a high 13 or low 14, remember his motor is rated at 290hp 326ft-lbs

 

Is it really?
That does sound like it has potential to be impressive.
Gaining 2 seconds just from removing the CFI?
Then again, haven't seen it at the track yet.

 

thats a crate 350 it has potential i thought you knew that

and hell ya will has the resources he's got mine help for sure im sure traviz and terrel wouldnt mind, i mean between the 3 of us we have torn our intakes off too many times......haha

 

here we go

http://www.craigslist.com/pen/pts/88746543.html

every single thing you need minus distrubtor, and fp, sending unit, so about 85% complete i say

only for $400

 

______________________________________________

That's cool, but wanting to go faster and be different are seperate things...many talk about stroking a 305...to be different...time, money and expense of building a 383, and you don't even have a 350 yet

Also, I think it was mentioned above somwhere, there's almost no tuning support for his current ECM. DIY_PROM forum is full of support for the TPI crowd.

Just more food for thought.

 

I have to learn how to quote better

 

Damn guys, sorry for not posting in a while, been really busy at work and crap lately. Thanks for the info Del about the x-ram, the 85 vette tpi fuel pump they talk about is the exact pump I have ready to install in my car along with the new tank, etc. I also already knew about the x-ram, I told you guys changing the fuel pump would make a big difference, didn't know it would make that much though, can't wait to run the car at the track finally, thanks again Del. You have almost convinced me to stay with cfi and go to x-ram.

Some new things have come up and I won't be able to do any swap for a while. My girls car took a crap the other day and I am sick of putting money into it. So we bought her a new 05 chevy cobalt. I am first going to concentrate on fixing up the body, gas tank, fuel pump, etc, and the steering box. Then I can make up my mind on the tpi swap. It's just now going to take me longer to do all of this stuff cause of the new car, but oh well, that's life and you have to give things up some times.

Oh, my new crate 350 is actually rated at 260hp/350lbtq, just so you guys know. It would be a low 14 high 13 car if it wasn't for cfi, but it sounds like the x-ram would get me closer for a lot less money than tpi. Anyway, I will keep you guys updated, talk later.