I have several reasons for not attending, and I will attempt to write them down as reasonably as I can in this post. If you don't agree with me, thats fine. But I'm speaking out now because I have talked to many people who feel the same way. I'm making sure our reasons are put out in the open.

I understand that this is your party Denny, but this needs to be said.

First of all, while seperating the cars is nice for pictures, it is demeaning to those who have put time and money into the mechanical aspects of their cars. My car may not be the most beautiful bird out there, but I have poured blood, sweat, and tears into the drivetrain. The transmission has been done on my back, the motor has been rebuilt, the mods have been carefully thought out to get the best bang for the buck. I made sure that the engine looks as good as any I've seen on the boards. Just because a car does not have immaculate paint does not mean the that I have no pride in how it looks. If there is to be an equal showing for the cars, then all cars must be allowed to park in the same spaces. Seperating the cars denies some people the chance to show off what work they have done to the car. Parking should be done either Camaro/Firebird seperation, or first come first serve. Thats how I feel about it.

Secondly, the $35 registration fee that includes the raffle ticket. Not everyone needs, nor wants to participate in the raffle. Some have enough trouble getting the money together to keep up with the car hobby. Admission to cover food expenses should be charged seperately from the raffle tickets. A $15 fee for a meal ticket would not be over the top. It does not cost you $15/person to feed everyone, we are not expecting a gourmet meal. There are those people who cannot afford to spend $35, plus gas to attend a party that offers little more than the chance to meet other thirdgen owners. Please reconsider charging a seperate admissions fee, and then a raffle ticket as being optional.

Our crowd is not affluent by nature. Many of the members of this board are younger, and still paying a great deal for schooling.

Please consider what I have to say Denny. I am not the only one who feels this way, many of the N/W Indiana and S. Chicago members also feel the same way.

 

I will try to convey my feelings without making anyone mad.

First of, i want to start off by saying that dennys parties are the best. Plenty of cars to look at, good food, and generally good people to meet/talk too. I really appreciate what he does ever year for us. It is the one big thing us thirdgenners can look foward to every year.

About the 35 bucks. I understand where you are coming from denny, you are putting alot of money into this car, and you would like to make the money back, who wouldn't? I think smaller raffles would be a bigger hit with the people. Like for example, maybe a 15 dollar ticket to win a seat set or something. I know for me personally, i would not want a chance at another car, the 2 f-bodies i have now are enough for me.

If i pay 35 bucks to have my car sit somewhere all day, my expectations for that day change dramatically. I am not sure what i would expect though, cause i usually attend smaller get togethers that are free of charge minus food money.

About seperating the cars, if you make everyone pay 35 bucks and then tell them where they can and cant park, i bet you will have a lot of pissed off people. I for one would be offended if i were asked to park in the "Not so nice" side of the yard. Its like a kick in the nuts to someone like bill(tons of work into drivetrain, all of it done himself) to be told that his car is not nice enough. Some people simply choose to go fast first and look good later. How can you fault someone for that? Same amount of work, but different results does not mean that someone elses car is better.

Well, with all that said i would like to once again thank denny for throwing the parties, they are great. But i fear that this year will suffer, i have already heard from about 12 different people that have said they will not be attending if things are not different. This post is not meant to be threatening in any way, it is dennys party and he can do what he wants with it.

I for one am not sure what i will do yet.

 

I gotta agree with you guys here. I think parking should also be first come, first served. I don't think someone should be seperated from the rest because they chose go before show.

And as for the $35 fee including a raffle ticket, I also agree that it should not be mandatory for the raffle. I have my Camaro, I don't want another one. I just bought another car. I cannot afford a third car and I don't need a third car. I think giving a car away is a bit too big for this gathering. I think it would be a good idea to sell tickets for other items, as you said. A seat set, a headliner, a dashpad, a set of rims, etc. Sad to say, but I think this year will be a lot less of a turnout due to the mandatory raffle ticket. I know last year he lost out on the raffle, but there were a lot of people there. This year, if no one wants to go and a few people show up, then he'll still lose out and on top of it, no one will even be there. I think a car is a bit over the top. I know a lot of people would be more than happy to pay for our share of food and pop and whatnot. But having to enter a raffle for something we don't want/need isn't too appealing to a lot of people.

So, thats just my opinion on this, take it for what its worth. I'm not sure if I'm going yet either. But its not because of the $35, its cause I'm not sure if I'll be around here in May.

 

I gotta say I agree with the above. I'm 17 years old and just got out of high school last week and having one car right now is enough. My dad would kill me if I had a second car before college. I'd like to attend the fest if I can, but the raffle for a car isn't appealing to me. Now, I could use a fiberglass headliner, a nice pair of sport seats, or something of the like. Hell, maybe even a spray kit or something. Something for everyone, something appearance, something performance, etc.

I'm just like Bill and have put next to no money in my body. By May, things *might* be different, but with my job situation right now, I doubt it. I've spent many paychecks and MANY hours pissing the girlfriend/parents off...oops I mean working on my car. The performance aspect of it should be pretty much set by May. Hell, I'm putting Gen II heads and intake on my car. 99.9% of the members on our boards haven't tried that one yet. As far as I know its only me and TPI_ROC so far. So some guys will have a one-of-a-kind body, but I'm going to have a one-of-a-kind 305 (assuming I don't blow it up and drop in the 350).

In any case, as Bill said, I don't like the $35 required raffle ticket fee type of deal. Sounds like a lot of money up front, especially if its for a raffle I don't care about. Now I guarantee you that I'd spend MORE money there if you had a few smaller raffles (like I've already mentioned).

 

while I don't think that the $35 is enough to stop me from attending as I look forward to the gathering all year. I really do think the car raffle is a bit much. they could do that at nationals maybe because of the bigger turn out, but it is a bit much for or gathering at its current size. I already have two cars so third car is just something I don't need as I have no place to keep it (my current third gen gets to take take up a space in my parents garage right now just because they are nice). if I were to win I would just turn around and sell it, sure I might make money off of it but with a rarer car like an '82 pace car I feel that is not doing it justice.

I have always been willing to pay for food that I think you should have charged for from day 1. I also agree that a raffel for performance parts would be something that I would be much more sutable for this event, I would be very interested in this.

you could also take some more of the cost out of the ticket in that you said you plan on giving out trophies. I like the whole award thing, but I don't need a trophy, hell just knowing you got voted best of show or something is enough for me, you could just give out certificates you printed off and that would be great.

finally as for the parking thing where you put people doesn't really bother me. I sort of agree with putting some of the nicer looking cars at least as far as the street front is concerned as it makes for some nice pictures and may cause a few people driving by to stop and take a look around. most big car shows I have been to did that at least for the first couple of rows, and I have been to plenty that have a "work in progress" section. not saying that most cars that will show up aren't, I know mine is far from done. I just don't think that having a car with a monster engine and trans, but the interior is torn up, or a big rust hole in the qtr. panel and door should really all be parked in the very front. personally I think flirtin1's car, transam#5's car, and the like belong up front, they are killer looking.

this is all of course just my opinion on things and you are all entitled to disagree with me, that is what makes this country so great. I hope you guys that are considering not comming change your mind as every year I look forward to seeing your cars and seeing all the next mods I want to make. to denny I really hope you reconsider some things and make a couple changes because I would hate to have a small turn out over this. thanks guys.

 

You also gotta consider how far some people live. You live in the same town so its not that big of a deal. I only live 30 minutes away, so again, its not that big of a deal. But if I had a go before show car and lived 4 hours away, I don't know if I'd want to drive 8 hours round trip to park my car seperate from the rest. Any other people have input? Preferrably people coming (or considering coming) from further?

 

I know in the "Caravan from the East" thread there were a few guys from Ohio, Delaware, and Pennsylvania. That's an 8-14hr drive depending on location and driving speed.

 

So, if someone did all the work themselves, every bit of their own money and time, their car is not as nice as someone with a wimpy motor but nice paint? That is all a matter of opinion. I know you were only stating yours, i was not attacking you there.

I think we should seperate people who do their own work from people who pay to have it done. Wouldn't that be interesting

 

i missed last yr b/c i had to work and was looking forward to actually going this yr until i found out it was 35 to go... #1 im prob not gonna have the extra money b/c i\m just starting a new job and i have stuff to fix on both of my cars and well as my house, and second of all i think its insane to require that kinda of money just to come..... hey i dont ,ind chippin in some money for food and for hosting but lets not making it so people cant come due to money.... i believe that our job is to promote our vehicles and by requiring peopel to pay 35, people arnt goign to come and thus not get our name out and promote our cars. Heck for 35 per person, we could rent somethign local and have a party and show, not that thats in the plans right now but point being we woudlnt have to drive that far...

If you are turly stiff to your 35 commitment, i know alot fo us wont be comming and prob having a local get together that wont nearly cost so much....

 

I have to agree with most everything said here. I live just outside of Springfield and am really considering making the road trip up, but the $35 fee doesn't really go over well with me. I understand that you are doing a raffle of a "fairly" rare car that "some" people might want....but I don't want one, or I'd buy one. I am not in the money crunch situation that most of these other guys are talking about. I attend several show a year and am very willing to pay an entrance fee......no problems with it at all. The thing that I see is that the entrance fee for a "local" 3rd gen only show is going to cost me $35, while showing in a "national" show like the Super Chevy Show is only gonna cost me $10 more. Now, I understand that I "could" (but probably won't) win another car, but that in itself doesn't make me want to show up anymore. I have not been to this meeting but have never heard a bad thing about it. Everyone is always saying how great it is and how much fun they have had seeing everyone's cars and meeting all those people we so often rely on thru these computer screens. THAT is the reason why I want to attend, and THAT is the reason why you will see my car there (if I can get the time off)....not some pace car that I will probably have to sell cause I have no where to park it. From everything I have heard, seen, and read, Denny puts on one he!! of a party and I hope to see all there who can attend. I guess if I win the Pace Car, I will auction her off and pay for everyone to attend next year who couldn't because of some raffle that isn't really going over that well and the mandatory fee to get in.

 

I don't think its the mandatory fee thats a problem, its the fee for something a lot of people don't want that is the problem. I'm sure most people want food and drink, and we're willing to pay for that. But not a lot of people want another car, so why enter a drawing for it?

 

I'm going, but I don't want or need a raffle car .... also I don't care where I park I just want to have fun.... I have done 95% of the work on my car because I couldn't afford it to be done by anyone else, plus I don't trust many people with my baby...
I understand where some of these guys are coming from on the money thing..... if they can barely afford 1 car y would they want another... just to try to sell ???? that wouldn't be a bad return on your investment IF you won....



911rsq .......maybe we could meet up and crusie in together I should have a few guys with me... the bigger the group the better

 

Yeah, paying 35 bucks is not the problem. Forcing people to buy a ticket is the problem, when most people would rather just buy a food ticket and enjoy the day.

 

only problem i see besides the ticket price is the parking situation. i didnt go last year due to a family member passing on. alot of these people seem to be offended that people think their cars are pieces of junk or whatever. what the one guy is saying is put the good stuff out front to draw peoples eye.


the reason i the seperation as a good thing is, and dont take this wrong guys, people with nice paint are FREAKS about swirls and scratches and stuff so if a "not so nice" car is parked next to your nice paint what keeps people from opening the door into yours and ruining the paint? is there a spacing or something because im not bringing my car if it is in risk of dents and scratches.

 

There is plenty of room between cars.

Just because someone does not have nice paint doesn't mean they are just going to slam their door into someone elses. That is one of the most absurd things i have ever heard.

 

Just because my car has faded/peeling paint means I don't care about dents and crap? Ask 9d1burd how **** I am about parking. My body is straight for the post part, and rust free. I wouldn't have bought the car if it had rust.

There are others who feel the same. My interior is decent. Yes, its worn out, but its CLEAN as can be. Ask 9d1burd, he helped me clean the damn thing. We ripped the seats out, shampooed, and vacuumed the carpet. Its clean as its ever going to get.

I take pride in my cars appearance, I know it has faults, obvious faults. My only concern until I get enough for good paint is keeping the rust and dings away so the body is in good shape for paint when it comes time. My floors are CLEAN.

 

Just my thoughts.....$35 is equal to a fee I would pay to be in a "car show"--where you have chance to win best of show, etc..etc.., not a high entrance fee "car cruise in" (even though you are in a raffle).

There is one great "car show" here every year, and only cost $15. They dont overkill on awards, and every one has a good time, and the cars are mixed together between every day street cars and the extream clean show rides. It is a first come, first choose where to park. If you want to eat, you either bring your own food or can buy a $2.50 ribeye sandwich from a food booth. It is a show I look forward to every year. Nobody complains about entrance fees, food prices, or the cars (even though we do get a good laugh at some of the stuff that rolls in). If you structure your event more like this one, I bet you will have far less complaints, and more in attendance.

 

This was a touchy subject after last year's party and we knew it was going to be this year. Let me explain why we decided to do what we did.

There were two major reasons we decided to add the $35 registration fee for this year. The first is that every year people want the party to get bigger and better and have more to do. Unfortunately, bigger and better equals more money and there's only so far we can go with a free party. Most people said last year they didn't mind having to pay as long as it improved the quality of the party. Of course, this year we added the Friday night pre-party and the car show so I think we definitely made some very good improvements. Also, we're still working on other ideas that could be added for this year.

Second of all, the number of no-shows really kills us every year. Last year we had about 250 people RSVP for the party. Of course, about half of that showed up. However, we still had to buy food and pop for 250 people. That's a lot of extra money for food that we shouldn't have to pay for. We were still eating hamburgers and hot dogs months later. Of course, people will argue that you have to plan on people not showing up. However, what happens if everybody DOES show up. Then you have people complain that there wasn't enough food. That's why we have the cheaper fee if you register by May 15th. It's really a way of making people put their money where their mouth is. It's really easy to type your name on some RSVP list but it's a different story to have to fork over some money. If people are willing to pay the money, more than likely they're going to be here. In fact, this year there will be no RSVP list. I will estimate how many people are coming to the party based on the number of cars registered.

Now, this is how we decided on the $35 registration fee. You have basically two way to charge for a party, per person or per car. Remember, the $35 registration fee this year is PER CAR not per person. We could have went with a $5 to $10 per person fee and had the raffle separate. However, that makes things really tough handling admission especially when a group of cars show up together like the caravans. We would have have cars backed up down the street while we check to see who had pre-paid and collect from those who didn't. If we did it that way it's much easier to have people pay ONLY on the day of the party and not have pre-registration. However, then we'd have the same problems with no shows.

Because of that, we decided to charge per car. It's really easy to check and see if a car has registered when it pulls up. All we need to do is check the list. If the car is paid you can send it straight through. You don't have to stop every car and figure out if everybody in the car has paid. We can move cars through a LOT quick that way.

After that we had to figure out how much to charge per car. We knew we were going to charge $35 per ticket for the raffle. It seems like most people have no problem paying $10 per person. Also, last year it seems like the majority of the cars came with more than one person and many with three and four. That means the price per car would be anywhere from $10 to $40. Since the raffle tickets were going to be $35, we just figured to charge $35 per car and each car gets a raffle ticket with their registration fee.

Now, about the raffle. I know a lot of people don't care about winning the car. If you don't want the car you don't have to take it. The winner will have their choice between a car and money. We haven't decided what the amount will be but it will probably be between $2500 and $3000. Sure, that's less than the car is worth but it encourages people to take the car and that's really what the auction is for. Also, there's a good chance there will be second and third prizes depending on the number of tickets sold. These prizes could end up being seats, wheels, etc.

The idea of putting the nicest cars in front is something quite a few people suggested last year and doesn't really matter much to me. However, I do think it makes for better pictures which only helps to promote the party. I could see if the other parking was completely separate but it's only separated by the driveway. I guess you can look at it two ways. You could look at it as an insult to your can or you can look at it as something to shoot for. I see it as the later. There's only going to be about nine trophies awarded but I know there's quite a few people who's goal for this year is to have a car good enough to put up front. I really see it as a way to raise the quality level of the cars at the party.

As everybody knows, we have tried different things every year. We won't know how this will work out until it we try it. I can tell you that the $35 registration fee is not going to change this year. There's a possibility that next year we could have a $5 to $10 per person fee and have a discount on raffle tickets. However, the single $35 fee is the easiest route and we're going to try that first. The majority of people we've talked to don't have a problem with it. We know it's going to keep a few people away but we still think the Thirdgen Fest '05 will definitely be bigger than last year.

We started working on this party right after last year's event was over. People wanted a bigger and better event with more things to do and I think Thirdgen Fest '05 will definitely raise the bar. I don't think anybody who comes will feel they didn't get their money's worth.

 

The Nationals in '03 charged a little more than this, I think $45. They had a bunch of raffles, vendors and most of the money went to rent the place it was at. And I don't think even 45 cars showed up.

 

for one i was asking about the room between cars not complaining since i havent been.

secondly i wasnt saying it (doors opening into another car) was going to happen on purpose or at all. third gens as we all know have heavy doors and a well waxed car + heavy door = chance of it getting away from a person who may be looking at the interior.


dont make it into a big issue man. lighten up all you had to say was you went and there was about so many feet between cars. no wonder i dont come to many meets way too many easily offended/angered people.

 

I figure i've been there for 3 years now, eaten all three years and denny wouldn't take any money for food. Not to mention he sold parts to me for a discount over what they go for on ebay. $35 or not i'll show up since i figure i've probably eaten that much over the years there anyways. He's a great guy and the chance to win a car to is awesome. for the people who don't "Want" a chance to win the car, make sure to put my name down on the raffle ticket when you hand it in. I never turn down something free, not to mention you can turn around and sell it as needed as well.

I can't even take a girl out on a date and spend less than $35 unless i rent a movie and take her to mcdonald's. You can blow $35 in IL just with 2 tickets, popcorn, and pop besides gas, so i don't really see the deal. Not to mention if you bring 3 friends....charge them all $10 and come out money ahead for yourself.

 

I agree. I'm sure all the people in here has bought parts from denny. I'm sure he gives u get deals. Cuz I know the first time I needed some thing (never meet him before) He gave me a kick butt deal. Just talked to him tonight getting a trans from him saved me about 100 bucks. Not only that if u go to a keg party its what 10 15 bucks? Hes haveing that the night before. Than have to clean up the mess the next day,than have 100 cars on your front yard.35 is not that bad. I know I will be there 35 in hand .

 

We all knew there was going to be a fee this year. He told us all last year there was going to be fee.
The homeless dude in my town is better with money and able save up 35 cash over one years time. The I'm in school/work part-time/am homeless excuse don't work with me.

Just like the old UNICEF commercial said"for only 10 cents a day you can attend THIRDGEN FEST next year"! Come on people 10 cents!

I don't care where I park. I have built my cars for me. If people want to see them they will walk all the way back to the south east corner of the property .

 

Denny makes a really good point....I'm just gonna bring a couple of friends, tell them you have to pay $10 up front for food, and its nearly a free show......
I agree that no one really cares about contributing to the cause, as food is provided, and I know I will probably plow thru my fair share of it...
Good Food, Good Friends, GREAT Cars....... Is $35 worth it to you?????

 

You know exactly what you implied, dont try to turn it around. Ask anyone here i am one of the most laid back guys you will ever meet.

Re-read what you wrote, and tell me it does not sound bad. What keeps people with nice paint from doing that? That was my point. Sorry you took it wrong.

 

Once again let me say that i never said i would not be attending, just expressing my concern. There was a group of about 20 of us at a recent meeting, the whole group seemed to feel the same way. I was just putting it out there.

 

The only issue I had was paying per car. Lets say I brought 2 of my rides, Id be up to $70 on just entrance fees, and just two people showing up. That was my issue. Its just some things I consider before I load up to go to a "stay overnight" show.



Also with the concerns of pre-registering, I know of shows that send static window stickers/cards to those registered. It allows the people at the entrance gate to easily see who to let right in and who still has to pay. This is something I have seen done before, just wanted to pass that along to you.

 

Im at least 8 hours out and I still want to attend. There just isnt enough of a gathering in my area, and this would be a great chance to see alot of these cars. The raffle doesnt bother me either, it'd be nice to win something like that.....and as for the car parking situation, it'd be nice to be up front, but chances are I wont be.....but meh to that, it doesnt mean people arent going to see your car anyways

 

yea i see how someone who was looking for me to be calling their car crap might take it that way. and nothing keeps it from happening with nice paint either thats why i asked about the spacing. misunderstanding is all.

 

I think thats where I went pee at last year ,wait maybe it was south west

 

I think thats where I went pee at last year ,wait maybe it was south west

 

That is where I meet you at Tony. By the weeds in the southwest corner.

 

I don't really agree with the manditory price, but I enjoy Denny's parties so I am going to go. I'm not even going to have a third gen there this year, but I'm going to go to check out the other cars, meet new people, get some food, and cruise. Denny deserves to make a little cash from this party, and if you don't want to go, then you have no reason to post about it. It's his party, its up to him to make up the rules.

 

I assume you are talking to me. I was simply expressing concerns. LIke i said earlier, my opinion is shared with about 20 others, i just wanted to put it out there.

People seem to think our posts were meant to hurt the party in some way, they were not. I just dont want the new rules to make it a lousy turnout.

But you are right, it is dennys party, i just thought he would like to hear what the regulars thought.

 

Look, I was in the "wheezer section" last year, probably will be again this year. I started a new project '86 and my goal is to be "show ready" in time for Denny's party. My friend was there with me and he has planned upgrades and tweeks for this year because of what we saw & learned at the party. I had the oportunity to talk and meet many of you guys there. Yes, while I agree I could use a Camaro like a hole in the head, It might just be the thing to help me with my daughter's desire to get into this hobby. Heck, I've got enough kids available to make the $35 seem like nothing. I'm just waiting for confirmation of my vacation day and my payment will be on the way. Look forward to meeting some of you there.

 

Wow it allways comes back to cash! I don't even have a job right now and I am bringing three of my personal cars.
I can't believe people who live less than 40 minutes from the party are still bitching about thirty five dollars.
It is going to cost me about $3000 to meet my goal and none of my cars will be in the front area.
Take back some video games to walmart, scrap that extra set of 15 inch z28 wheels, collect cans for three months, donate blood plasma, quit eating fast food, shovel your neighbors driveway, sell your knowledge for term papers, tell people it's for UNICEF, cash in the savings bond your grandma got you for your 5th birthday, ACT LIKE YOU GOT A PAIR.
Yes i've done some of those to get money. Just quit bitching about money and very leinient rules.

 

*puts fingers in ears*

lol This is actually pretty funny once you read your way thru it, so I guess I will drop my 2 cents than.

I'll admit that I think $35 a car is high just to attend a party. I dont care about the raffle(I dont need another POS, I already own 3). Being as of now unemployed, it sure doenst make me want to roll out all my cars. I would end up paying $105 myself?

I can see 10-15 or $20 for admission fee with food and pop included.(hamburgers should taste like meat/cow too) The $35 should be for an arranged car show entry and maybe some small prizes available. Or even some of those simple 1-3 place trophies they have. The raffle should be seperate and/or included in a package like admission/carshow/raffle.

The parking :-) Everyone is gonna love me here Im sure. Leave it alone and split it up(like it has been done). If there is a disrepancy let the organizers/mods be the deciding factor. Where else on theplanet can you get a picture of multiple thirdgens that look good on film with straight lines and paint. Every car show and event that I go to during the year has different classes and levels. Sides, I do appreciate getting a few good pics and having all clean cars in the picture. (and yes I completely realize my cars are not show quality vehicles either, they getdriven, alot)

You will never have the best car, the fastest car, the shiniest car, everytime you do , there is someone out there that one ups you anyhow.

Just offering opinions/ suggestions about how we might be able to help appease everyone concerned and make it a fun time for everyone regardless.

Please read what others have to say before you post any reply's here. And please dont quote others out of context, there is no battle here, or something to prove, just someone speaking their mind.

This isnt always about money or who has more $$$$ in their cars. I'm sure I can pretty much guarantee no one here outspent me last yr on the amount of $$$ on their cars. I dont care and niether do my friends. It doesnt guarantee me a "premium" spot or special treatment, just some really damn neat rides that are fun as all get out in my own opinion.

for what its worth,
Jeremy

 

I dont really care who this directed at, i just want to say WOW that was mature.

People need to lighten up, this post was put up to let denny know how his regulars felt. If i were him, i would like to know what almost a third of my attending group thought.

Thats it, plain and simple. What makes me laugh is half the people who say "Stop your bitching" wont even show up

 

I just wanted to let everybody know I'm going to close this post and delete it soon. It's been up for a while and I think everybody has had a chance to voice their opinion. I think people can make up their own minds on whether the party is worth it or not and I don't think this post is really going to change anybody's mind. However, I do feel that a bunch of people bitching at each other in a post could keep people away. I mean, who really wants to attend a party if it may just be a bunch of people bitching at each other.

I just wanted to mention this before it gets deleted because I don't want people to think I dumped it just because some people had some negative things to say. I'm just afraid people could be turned off because of all the arguing.