I'm just wondering....lately when people post times from their near stock or slightly modified thirdgens that run 13's or slower......they say "it ran a 14.XX @ XX mph, BUT, had a no traction 2.0 60ft". Am I the only one that finds this incredibly amusing for a 14 second car??? In Tucson, running a 2.0 60ft in any car 13's or slower is considered hooking EXTREMELY hard for street tires. When I ran a 13.5 in my girlfriends T/a, it had a Th350, 3,200 stall 10 inch converter, and M/T slicks....it pulled a 1.90 60 ft. That was with a vortec 350.

 

usually people aren't saying it about 18 second cars, i agree with you on the ones that do. but when you get down to 15's or 14's a 2.0 60 is a signal that traction is starting to suffer, you may not be coming off the line with the tires blazing, you might not hear any screeching or see any tire spin, but there is traction loss for the first 60' and the traction usually has a negative effect on your total et. Even if you only slip 1%, by the end of the 1/4, you've lost 13.2 feet, your tires moved enough to cover 1333.2ft, but your car only moved 1320ft. if you change from street radials to slicks, without changing anything else, you'll see how much you give up just through a very tiny amount of traction loss...atleast thats my belief.

 

I agree 100%. When my car pulled a 2.0 60ft I thought that was damn good and that was with a 4000 rpm launch, got to love that VHT. Normally I would only get a 2.18-2.25 and even that is really not that bad for street tires with no VHT on the track (test and tune nights).

 

on street tires i usually get mid 1.8 sec 60fts... so a 2.0 would suck a$$ for my car.

and yes im running in the 13s

 

hmm ET STREETS and 1.72-1.76 all day long!!! J/K

I used to cut in the 2.0-2.1 range and the car seemed to hook very well. I think 2.0s are good 60s for a street tired 13-14 second car!

 

i see what your saying but vettes always hooked better out of the hole then f-bodies.. atleast with stock tires

 

yeah i either spin them hard or take off slower than what the car actually has to offer, so drag radials have to be on my list i am out of ideas to hook up.

 

these kinds of posts always make me laugh!

"Man i spun so hard and ran only a 2.0 60' and ran a crappy 14.89 at 92 mph"

lmao

let me tell you something YOUR NOT SPINNING!

now put old GatorBacks on 16" iroc rims in a 13 second car at full pressure and launch it then you can say that.

1. buy a good street tire. not these pep boy specials
2. drop pressure
3. slightly heat them. spin them up real good but don't over do it unless your like me
4. learn how to launch
5. takes seat time to launch the car correctly


Jim if you'd like i'll show you how to launch that car of yours come out to cecil this friday night

 

I have been to the track once last fall and my best 60' was 2.15. It was very traction limited even though the tire just barely spun. My first time on a track with a 5 spd and a 3.42 open rear end and that was as much power as the car could hook up that night. When I would try to give it just a little more off the line I was getting 2.4 - 2.6 second 60's. It just comes down to feeling what the car wants to do. Too many people just floor it off the line then blame traction for their bad times.

 

330 ft is just as important if not more important than the 60 ft for my car. If my car 2.0 60 foots it means it is spinning to the 330 ft, which is bad for me on radials.

 

or like my car with 2.2 60' running 14.0's at well over 103mph:lala:

just a few traction problems

 

And I thought that I had some severe tire spin. Check out my sig, I should be running 12's.

 

A 3200 stall and slicks and you only got a 1.90 60 ft??
Do you consider that hooking?

Bob

 

I WISH I pulled 2.0 60's. My 1/8th mile would be a 9.4. My stock L98 Iroc has a best 60' of 2.409. So yeah, not sure I'm in the group of people you guys are talking about.

 

i consider that a joke

 

Yeah, I would say so.
I tried a 2800 stall in my IROC a couple of years ago and got a few in the 1.7's.
With the stock stall and et streets it would hook good with 1.9's being normal.

Bob

 

That because you live in Canado at some *** aweful track!! here in tucosn 2.0's are considered hooking hard!!

 

If the track here in "Canada" (note spelling) is so **** wouldn't I be more like 2.7's??
And a 2.0 60 ft is the same whether you come out spinning or you hook. Kind of depends on the power you're making.

Bob

 

mad-mic what do u have against pepboys tires? my brother is hookin in his 91 z28 withthe Futura ultra-z tires and with a worn out posi, he gettin between 2.1-2.04 for 60'' and his best so far is a 14.1 at 97 mph.

i got slicks on my car and for some stupid reason im only pullin a 2.32 and it pisses me off that its only gettin a 2.32 with slicks. my suspention isnt stock or whats left, its very stiff. that might play in a part why my times suck, and also my floorboards are rusted thru in 3 large spots. im using a used set of M&H roadmaster dot slicks that have about 20-25 runs on them and there just about shot.

 

I agree with the thread starter!!
A 2.0 60' is good.
I made 5 passes on my 87' IROC with a set of drag radials 3.27 rear gears and a stock 700r4 no stall converter.
First 4 passes I started from a DEAD idle and got 1.915, 1.995, 2.015, and 2.020 for 60' time.
Car ran a 13.29 at 104mph.
My 5th pass I tried raising the rpms before launch to 1200 and went up in smoke 2.5 60'.
I was extremely happy with my 60' times considering I was running with rear tires incapable of handling my HP. And thanks to TPI setup, my motor NEVER bogged at launch!!!
Compare this to my 67' with the same trans, rear gears, and same set of tires, best 60' was 2.13 but it varied, not as consistent as my IROC, which has better rear suspension.

 

I dont' know what to tell you guys, but I go to the track quite often, and the only people I see cutting 60 fts quicker than 1.90's are running SERIOUS times, like low 12's or quicker. I just think that some tracks are different..........Maybe the way the lights are setup, or how much VHT they use....altitude.....ect.....My track is at 3,200 feet....so does that mean i use a correction factor on my 60ft to compare timeslips???? I always just read off the slip. honestly I think its great some of you guys are getting 1.7 or better 60 ft with high 13 second or slower cars, but here in Tucson it just does NOT happen that way. Maybe we just all don't know how to drive....or maybe its differences in tracks, I don't know.

 

Unless they dont prep at all it isnt the track...

My car is only low 13s... best 60' is a 1.720 and I have yet to even touch the suspension. I realize it is not an auto Fbody, but it is not a wild 12 second car either. The 60' has no correction factor, so it should be the same at every track, as long as traction is the same.

TimZ2882, I think in your case your car just does not have the power to need slicks. I had an auto in my car and when i had DRs on, it would bog so much off the line, I would pull in the 2.3-2.4 range. My car at the time was running low 14s, so imagine a mid to low 15s car, with slicks... Not trying to be mean but I think it is the truth, its overkill...

 

This I find hard to believe. What drag radials can't handle a low 13 second car?

When I bought my car, it was stock except for a chip, thermostat, and K&N. I went 13.0@104. I ran 5 times and the 60' was 1.88-1.92 on all runs. That was with Firestone Firehawks.

After doing all the normal mods, I went 12.1@111 on Nittos. This was still on stock injectors, turbo, downpipe, cat back, etc. Short time was 1.69.

After doing a turbo, injectors, downpipe, cat back, etc. I'm at 11.6@115 on a 1.62 short time. Still on Nittos.

I think my car is making a little more HP than yours and the drag radials can hold. That is just not a fair statement to make about the tires.

 

I agree usually the driver not the tires that cause the issue. I have seen mid 1.9s and even heard of 1.8s on street radials.

 

I did a couple 1.88's on the Firestone's with the TTA. Most were 1.90-1.92.

On my 96 WS6 Formula, I cut 1.87 on the stock GSC's. That was 4.10 and 6spd. Most were in the low 1.9x range.

It can be done

 

I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you, but you obviously didn't understand anything I said. The only thing holding my CALIF. SMOG LEGAL single EX. IROC from running in the twelves is the drag radials. Actually I don't think DRs give you much more traction than good street tires. You can't lower the pressure down below 15 lbs because you can't stud the tires to the rims!
A set of good slicks at 4-5 lbs would allow me to raise rpms at launch.
My IROC is totally CA smog legal and I ran the car that way at the drags. I was very pleased with my times, there are not very many smog legal cars on the road that can run in the low 13's with street tires!!!!
I use to race a 69' Z28 33 years ago in a stock class (NHRA G-Stock) and I know just what good slicks can do for your launch. With cheater slicks I ran low 13's. Slicks dropped me down to 12.6. But back in 1970 NHRA rules would not allow slicks in stock classes.

 

No pissing match. I ran 12.4s in my perfectly emission legal WS6 on drag radials. I also ran 13.0's on real street tires in the TA, emission legal on street tires when I bought the car.
When I started modding the TA, it ran 12.6@110 on Firestone Firehawks. With no changes except drag radials, I went 12.1@111. The difference was launching harder. 1.88 to 1.69 short times and no spinning on shifts.
Drag radials work. And I run 20-22psi in them depending on track conditions.
Not knocking your car, just your drag radial statement.

 

Rob:
Did you notice in my original post I stated that my 87' IROC has 3.27 rear gears and a stock 700R4???

Here is another example: On my first pass, I ran against a 2003 Viper. His time is on my time slip. He had what looked like 14" wide rear tires and of coarse a manual trans, I have 275/50 DRs (10" wide).

----------Viper ------- Me
60' -----1.953 ----- 1.992
330' ----5.252 ----- 5.606
1/8 -----7.874 ----- 8.612
MPH ----96.12 ----- 82.25
1000 ---10.108 ---- 11.189
1/4 ---- 12.009 ---- 13.295
MPH --- 116.88 ---- 104.87

This backs up my point, a 1.9 60' launch is pretty damn good for DRs.

 

1.9 60' good for drag radials? That's miserable.

Most guys around here have no trouble hitting 1.7s and 1.6s on 16" and 17" drag radials on emissions legal street cars. Drag radials in general can hold a high 7 second 1500HP car, so I'm sure they'll handle your car. The problem is in the rest of your car (converter, gearing, suspension), not the tires.

 

Like I said, nothing against your car. My 12.1 times were with my stock 2004R and stock converter along with 3.27 gears. That was with the stock exhaust, injectors, turbo, etc. Best short time with that setup was 1.65 twice. And that was with Nittos.
Now I'm running a converter, bigger turbo, bigger injectors, exhaust, etc and so far the best is a 1.62 on Nittos.
You really should be cutting better than 1.9x with a 15" drag radial. Mine are still on 245/16's. Better sidewall on the 15".

 

WELL, that's absolutely AMAZING!!! Your clocks must be different than ours in California. I've never seen anyone get that low 60' times with DR's or street tires in California.
You are not reading all of my post either. I stated that my 1.9 and 2.015 60' times were from a dead idle. And my motor did NOT bog. I then tried a 1200 rpm launch and went up in smoke with 2.5 60' time. What does that tell you? The tires can't handle the HP!!!

 

It means you need to learn how to launch the car. Either playing with tire pressure, modifying how fast you come on the throttle, better/different burnout, etc.

Its not the tires can't handle the HP. More like your car, or you, aren't setup to get the best out of it.

 

Well, I guess your right Rob, I don't know what I'm doing. Even though I drag raced for years, and held the 1970 NHRA worlds record in G-Stock optional at 12.73 ET 107mph. At the same time, my buddy Steve King held the worlds record in AHRA formula I F auto stock class at 11.23 128 mph, he also won the Winter Nationals in 1969,1970, and 1971.
Anyway I'm going to sign off, but I still do agree with ChrisFormula355, the original thread starter.

 

You, of all people, should know that everyday at the track is different and you need to modify your approach for the track conditions.

No need to claim what you did over 30 years ago as it doesn't apply. Technique has changed drastically since then as well as tire technology. Slicks back then are normal street tires now. Everything, for the most part, is so much better than then.

But I still say a 13 second car is not making enough power to say drag radials don't work.

Rob

 

the gas pedal is not a "on/off" switch. you have to ease into full throttle, not just stomp it when the light goes green. maybe this is why you have problems hooking?

and to counter your statement that street tires or DRs cant hold up to a good launch, i have personally cut a 1.86 60ft on street tires with a 1200rpm launch. changing over to DRs gets me mid 1.7s with a 2000rpm launch. its not the tires, its either your launch technique or your cars setup

 

Running 2.0 or 1.9 short times with drag radial is unimpressive. Using the advantage they give should net much better results than that.

I ran inconsistently on old 235/60/16 Goodyear Eagle RSAs and generally landed 2.1-2.3s as I learned how to launch. I replaced them with 245/50/16 BF Comp KDW tires. I've only made 3 runs on these- 2.106 @ 28psi, 2.019@26psi, and 2.056@25psi. I expect pretty consistent 1.9xs with a little less pressure. I'd expect a solid tenth or so from DRs. Running slower 60's on DRs in a modded car is unforgiveable.

This is at Moroso in Palm Beach County in a 170,000 mile '92 1LE with no mods.

 

Welcome to 2004! Tire tech has changed just a little in the last 3 decades

Drag radial tire equipped cars are capable of 7 second quarter mile times on stock style suspension. BFG dominates, but the Nitto tire'd cars have run into the 9s. I'm sure someone would hit 8's if they would switch they're BFGs over for a few runs.

This is a local guy who I know personally:

http://www.50mustangandsuperfords.co...8_0306_little/

And he is not the fastest DR car in the country. From 2001-2003, he was. Now there are several others going faster.

And as a side note, the car IS street legal.

And if you think these banzai runs are flukes, I assure they are not. While some others have trouble dialing in there times, Chris is DEAD CONSISTENT!

It isn't the tire thats lacking here...

 

unfortunately what was accomplished 30 years ago is not that pertinent to this topic.

Today's tires are much stickier than the used to be.

As far as 2.0s on complaining...it all depends....2.0 @ 100+ mph and you need to work on it. 2.0 @90-95 mph, that's sounds about right.

I personally run 1.9x on $hitty street tires, slightly better than a buddy of mine running 1.9x with an LT1 Z28, with similar et and mph as me. Kinda embarrasing for him that I beat him out of the hole on my street tires, but i attribute that to the suspension work I have done, along with driving technique. I expect to run in the 1.8x range with DR this summer.

Hookinp up at the track is dependant on a number of things, HP/torque, suspension setup, tires, technique, and track prep.

My car on a non prepped track runs in the 2.1-.2.2 range sometimes even worse.

 

1.54 60ft on DRs

 

11SEC91Z - was that 60 footer on nitrous?

 

no sir..ive never sprayed my car..might try it this year though!

 

wasnt the original poster just stating that he didnt think people with 14 sec and slower cars should be complain about about 2.0 60' times. I took his statment as meaning that cars that dont have the power to break into the 13's or better should put this off on there 60' time unless there spinning out of the hole. If the car dead hooks from the hole and pulls a 2.0 thats good for a car that makes low 14's or slower. If its a 12 sec car turning 2.0 60' times then yes I could see that persons point not being happy with there 60'.

As for the guys saying 1.9 with DR's suck. I see his point they can pull much better 60's but that comes down to the car and track prep.

 

I got a 2.19 60' on 215/65/15 tires Better than I thought it would do lol (was thinking it would do 2.4x 60' footers) also ran a 15.21 @ 90 which was worse than I thought This was with the 305 still in the car.

 

I agree with Chris, 2.0 is damn good and I believe it has to do with the track more than anything. I dont know if the timing lights are a variable (rollout distance, etc) but launch pad surface and prep must be.


Here in So Cal, at carlsbad raceway, a 1.9 60 foot is smokin' quick... I had thought about what Chris is talking about numerous times and sometimes joke that the 60' is the difference between internet times and real times. 1.9 cars here are deep into the 12 second terroritory (f bodies anyways)

I have personally never seen under a 2.1 60 foot in my car and I have D/Rs and every rear suspension mod possible including a locker rear. My car is no slouch either.

Ive also run at moroso in palm beach and I did manage 2.0's in a 19 second 4 banger pickup truck with 4 different used tires and massive wheel hop (like enough that my buddies said the bed was visibly jumping up and down)

So I dont know what it is

 

Yes those times or should I say mph are 12 sec numbers with traction.BTW in my 98 c5 when stock had 2.0 60 ft times all day long with no spin(because it can't) and for the record that is with traction control off!!!But a better stall changed all that :lala: :lala:

 

MDFormula350 just went 1.8 on regular 17" radials (not DRs) in a high 13 second, internally stock L98 car. Just exhaust and suspension mods. Check his post out in this forum...

That is hooking no doubt, but that is pretty much the norm out here. Maybe you west coast guys are doing something different?

 

I agree thats a good 60' for his mods and tires.The track he ran at must have had good track prep. I ran a 1.84 on cheap street tires when I was at a track with good prep. Went back to the same track afew weeks later, this time with BF drag radials on the car. ran a 1.9 60'. They didnt prep the track on my 1.9 run. So track prep makes a big difference.

 

Im running Pep Boys Ultra Z's out back (P255's) on my IROC. I normally cut low 13.8s with 1.8 60ft times. Ultra Zs hook harder then anything outside of a drag radial. Ive run BFG's, Goodyears, etc and was pulling 2.0+ 60fts until the Ultra Z's. This was all with a 2,800 stall.

Droping pressure wont help you out much with low profile radials. the sidewalls are so stiff that to get the tread to widen out any significant amount you have to run very low pressure which in the best case will cause more drag at the top end, the worst case youll throw a tire.

Heating up a street radial doesnt do anything. You heat up slicks because they are designed to work hot. The only thing u do by heating up street radials is to clean the tread off and waste rubber. A SHORT spin of the tires on the way to the line is sufficient for a street radial.

I agree with your last two points. Practice makes perfect.
Some people here may not agree with what im saying but are they pullin out 1.8 60fts with cheap rubber?

 

last sat i went to the strip.


normally i run street tires, full air, swaybar, everything as she sits on the street... this is just a benchmark thing for me, not a drag car.



well.... the previous friday, i changed my gear oil in my 4.11 rear i JUST bought. i found the edge of 6 or 7 teeth on the magnet.

fug.

so we decide to just run it hard till it breaks (i had 2 backup rears anyway)

i yanked the swaybar, put the shocks from my old car on (nice and worn) and got some very worn comp TA drag radials from a friend.

first launch.. like street tires... 2.2 60' i felt as soon as i let the clutch out that i should have launched harder... i had a ton of traction left...
second.. 2.0 60' and i still felt i could launch harder......
third.. hooks JUST right.... for half a second.

my rear let go with a boom so loud that the car jumped in the air and everyone who saw me told me they heard it....
i trailered the car home...


in anycase, ive ignored this whole thread for one reason.

if you mod your car at all and run sticky tires, you shold be below 2.0
heck the SAME tires i had on that night went 1.7s with another similar car... (except he has a T5 , i have a T56... he'll need a T56 soon lol.)

i see cars with gears and a converter do it all the time...

if you have any significant desire to make the car capable of going below 2.0, you can.


and just so you guys know, cooper is consistantly the worse prepped track ive ever been to. its BAD. as proven by Gtech, i cut better 60's infront of my house. the only reason i go is because its close.

 

That's a myth. All tires, street or drag radial, drag slick or road racing slick are designed to operate at a certain temperature range. And it's always a good bit higher than ambient air temperature. Call your tire manufacturer and ask them what your tires' optimum temperature for traction is. I bet you'll be surprised!