alright guys, the 305 has done more than i've ever expected, but is now getting close to really tearing something up as i've found my oil burning issue to be piston ring/piston ring land related...so, last friday i dropped of a 1968 chevelle 010 4 bolt 350 block off at the machine shop. i have a tentative idea of what i want to run for a combo, let me know what ya'll think:

9.7:1 c/r with speed pro power forged pistons connected to a stock crank with ohio cranshaft forged rods in the 5.7" flavor

stock 462 "double hump" heads (they're free and so i'm going to use them for now...acc bolt holes are not an issue, i can come up with a solution, the only thing i have to hang is my alt.) these heads on a 10.5:1 355 on alky with the torker II intake/cam in a 2600lbs monza went 10.8's, so they can't be too bad of heads.

xe274 cam
crane energizer aluminum roller rockers 1.5:1
holley street dominator intake manifold
holley 650 double pumper


here is the rest of the car's combo that is already installed to help the little 305 run it's 13.0's it's so famous for:

hedman longtube headers with h-pipe and dual exhaust
2400stall ATI 10" converter infront of a heavily built 700r4
4.10 gears with 275/60/15 m/t ET street radials putting the power to the ground. roughtly 28" tall
car weighs 3270lbs. with me in it.

question for you all now is, what will the new combo run?

 

14's


Just a guess, mid 12's.

 

mid 12's, like low/mid 12's? i'm going to be pissed if i go out and run a 12.9 with the 305 then get the new combo together and go back out and run a 12.7, know what i mean?

 

With the way you're car is working, low/mid 12's. Dunno if that'll happen the first time out though First time out with my car it did a 13.68 @ 101 (I think) and finally got it to a 12.22 @ 111 this year.

 

well, i expect whole heartedly that it will not run the number first time out as there will be some needed long "conversations" with my holley. i also still need to pick up an ignition box of some sort as i'm still running without one and i know that an msd 6al will help keep the combo midly mannered on the street and help with some fuel economy, as well as maybe a little performance. 83 crossfire TA said he saw a .2 decrease in et by going to one as well as a 1mph increase...i'd be interested to see if that helps some.

 

I will say it is going to depend on the head porting. Those are old school heads and will need some good quality work done on them.

 

Save your money if your extpecting the MSD to do anything for you if your current HEI is in good working order....seen that happen too many times to guys and then the aftermath of having spend $2-300 for nothing-literally.

If your going to expend you ignition to include a 2/3 step, then by all means get the 6AL, good box with lots of expandibility.

 

i'm not going to put alot of money into them, they worked really well on my fathers monza, givin it was 600lbs. lighter and was running alchohol, however, i'll be running a much newer design cam and a better dual plane intake.

just adding the 600lbs. and going back to gas is only ~.8 of a second and that would put me in the 11.6 range...now i don't trust all those numbers to work out that nicely, so i figure that it would run more in the 12.0/11.9 range.

IHI, yes, if/when i get an ignition box, it will include a limiter ala 6AL.

 

I found when switching to the MSD dizzy, 6AL box and coil, it worked a hell of a lot better than my HEI setup above 5500 rpm. It actually kept pulling to 7,000 instead of tapering off some.

 

interesting...maybe i'll go ahead and save up $600 to get all the stuff at once?

 

changing your distributor, coil and box (whatever the hell that is) made u pull more in the higher rpms????

 

the stock in coil-in-cap hei dizzys start to freak out around 5800rpm or so.

 

FWIW, realistically a HEI dizzy can be upgraded and worked over to provide pleenty of spark for any motor it will power-regardless of hp/tq numbers and cubic inch, but it comes at a price. My first motor I used a stock HEI since I was racing footbrake class and no need/use for 2 steps, but after I installed the new cap/rotor/ign module/and had it spun balanced to 9K I had $225 in it....

Consider a MSD set-up to make it work you'll have around $450-$500 for the basic set-up to fire a motor and the upgraded HEI is a much better option to those that dont race and/or plan to upgrade with 2 steps, retards, etc...

Some uninformed think MSD is the way to go since all the racers run that type of ignition system, but realistically a person gets the same performance out of a properly built HEI as they would with a high dollar ignition system....budget-but mostly application should be the guide for choosing which is right for you.

 

thanks for the info IHI and i will probably just use the dizzy i have for now, but i would like to upgrade to full msd stuff as soon as i can afford to cause i'll be running all kinds of stuff down the road. mainly boost/n2o related stuff.

 

I didn't want to mess with HEI stuff anymore so it all went out the door. Left me stranded on the side of the road once and died in my driveway the 2nd time. I'm the type of guy who will spend the money for something different if stuff keeps going wrong or not working out like I want it to hehe. I'm sure you can get the HEI stuff working great but it just wasn't something I wanted to do.

 

what if i ran vortec heads or dart iron eagles (180cc or 200cc?)

let me know. vortecs can be had on ebay for pretty cheap nowadays.

 

Just be sure you get the 062 or 961 (or 916) cant remember -I got burnt on the "vortec" head deal a few years back.

 

You'd fly. I'd ditch that 2400RPM stall in favor of something more like 3400RPM (or higher) though. In a light car like yours a vortec/xe274 350 should throw you into the 12.0 range. I've never weighed my car but I cant imagine it being lighter than 3400lbs w/ me and I've hit 12.50 @ 108mph right off the batt with no tuning and not having a clue how to drive the car... My goal next time around is 12.20's and there isnt a doubt in my mind that it'll get there.

 

well, i'm not ditching my $850 converter...sorry. it may stall higher behind more power too.

 

Hands down I would use the vortec head. And I agree with IHI on the msd ignition I put it on my car and on a dozen others no one picked any et from it. Only thing I noticed was a cleaner idle.

 

If you cna get a set of Dart Iron Eagles do it....those heads outflow their competiotn almost everytime and are proven performance....but Vortecs can be had for cheap and once machined and ported out, they flow damn good....liek in the 240-250 range....which is exceptionally well if i might add for stock casting heads with tons of potential!!!

 

thats one nasty 305 man. thats what i want to do with my 350, more compression, more cam. but the c.r. i was thinking of was more around 12 to 1?

 

i'm pretty much set on getting the iron eagles. just cause they don't need anything done to them right out of the box.

 

That monza has to be making somewhere in the range of >410hp to be running those times, so you can expect the ports to flow enough to support that kind of power, which would be about an 11.7@116 in your heavier car.

I think that you’ll need more converter (with the 700r4 I’d be shooting for about a 3200-3800 stall depending on how much street time this thing will see) and a bigger carb to do it, the cam should be about in the right range… What size exhaust/mufflers are you running, that will become an issue here.

As posted, fully tweaked/tuned I’d suspect that it should be possible to get it in the mid 12’s. I’ll be surprised if that 700 isn’t toast in short order…

I'd say that the iron eagles are pretty much a mistake for this combination, they'll give you nothing over what you already have without spending big money on them. The vortecs will probably help _a little_, but mostly in the form of the faster chambers will require a different tune and the engine will be happy on crappier gas.

 

1 5/8 longtubes with 3" collectors, 2 1/2" dual exhaust with h-pipe and dumps infrontof the rear.

nothing is set in stone, we'll see what happens when it's time to buy cylinder heads.

 

hmmm...found a guy on ebay that sells rebuilt vortecs for $380 and he advertises that he'll cut the guides for free...very interesting.

ok, question:
i have a relatively nice/new set of 1.5:1 aluminum roller rockers(crane engergizers) that were in the 305. i will NOT use stamped steel rocker arms. i will buy the new self-aligning rockers if i need to, but i was wondering if i had to, or can i just use screw in studs and guide-plates with my non s/a rockers.

 

Only one means of aligning the rockers allowed. If the pushrod holes are large & round, then either self-aligning OR guideplates.

 

It probably will stall higher, but whether it's high enough is still the question.

Won't they restall it for you?

 

they will, but it's like $150 and the cost to ship it there and back, plus more down time.

eh...i just picked up a daily driver, maybe i'll send it back to ATI after i get the combo together and i see where it stalls at.

 

good luck mw66...i've always admired the ***** of that 305 you got!

 

thanks man! it means alot! it really does seem like we here at Walter Racecraft (ie, me, my father, and a couple of my buddies) have had great success in getting simply combo to work really well. i really think the 360 (.060 over) will work really well and still be very streetable. 93 octane is all it will drink and i am confident with lots of tuning, i can get it in the 11's and still have a car i can drive everyday if need be. the converter may go back to ATI, but i'll be calling them when i get everything in the car to see what they think.

anyone got a vortec intake (performer rpm or comparable) the wanna donate to the cause? i have a holley street dominator intake that i may consider trading. (55-86 heads)

 

Back in 97 my Camaro when naturally asperated run 11.8 with this combo:
I always felt the car had more in it - the way your 305 runs, I have no doubts in your setup. Do the third gen crowd right.

3400 w/driver
350 9.8:1
750 dp w/ram air setup (Not sealed off - just feeding to side of filter.)
victor. jr intake.
Dart heads
242/246 solid flat tappet
3000 stall
4.10s in a 9"

 

ok, the pistons i'm looking at are a flat top piston with 4 valve reliefs and are advertised to yeild 9.7:1 c/r with a 64cc head. can anyone give me a guestimate of what it would be with a 58cc head?

 

A little over a half a point higher.

 

so, 10.3:1 is pretty close?

think 93 octane will feed that?

my dad wants me to get the car back together as quickly as possible, so i'm going to grab the cam outta the 305 (.442"/.465" 214*/224*) and the 416 heads which are stock right now.

the 305 with these heads/cam went 13.03@103, think that 12.6's are outta the question for the 350 bottom end?

i'll be saving for the 200cc dart iron eagle heads and a bigger cam to swap in later.

 

Of course until you put the shortblock together and measure the exact deck clearance to figure that into the equasion you won't know exactly how it will end up- you can play with head gasket thickness if need be to get it a tad lower.

 

mw66....Haven't seen you on the boards in a while.....your ditchin the 305!!! I guess I'll just have to keep the little motor goin then (I've got a 358 on the stand right now) will probably be next fall b4 i have it together though. I couldn't remember was your 305 n/a or were you spraying it? I wasn't able to talk myself into the big jets in the system this year, not until I have a spare ready to go.

 

This is why he ditched the 305- though it smoked like a train when he let off the throttle after the traps, it still pulled 13.30's at 100 mph the day I saw it when it was running with this broken piston-

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=326197

 

yeah, i wouldn't be ditching the 305 had i not broken it, but that's what happend, blew the piston ring lands right outta that #7 piston!

it was n/a and went 13.03 @ 103mph the a couple days before i ran a compression check and noticed something wrong...three weeks later i pulled the motor apart and found that.

the 360 is going to be badass once it's finally done with at least a set of 200cc intake runner dart iron eagles and some kinda wild cam...it should run deep into the 11's when i'm done, but i think that the current combo should net some 12.5-7's

 

new combo!

ok, so i ran into some issues when i calculated my c/r with the flattop 4valve relief speedpros with my 58cc heads...netted a solid 10.9:1, not good with the cam i have nor the fuel requirements, so i'll be going with the speedpro blower pistons advertised at 8.35:1 with a 64cc head.

after some simple math, the 58cc head, -21.1cc piston dish, and the .041 head gasket i'll be running, it bumps the compression ratio up to 9:1. with the .442/.465 214*/224* cam, this motor should be pretty happy. this also opens up some other options down the road...like forced induction, which is what i've always really wanted to do anyway. so the plan for right now is:

360cubic inch shortblock with forged dished blower pistons
forged rods
eagle cast crank
bonestock 416 heads to bring the c/r to 9:1
214*/224* .442/.465 crane cam
crane energizer aluminum roller rockers 1.5
holley street dominator intake
holley 650 double pumper

what do you think?

i've already started saving my pennies for a D1SC Procharger, 195cc AFR's, and a cam to compliment the combo (anyone wanna take a stab at some specs for me?). also, any suggestions on an intake manifold good for a blow through carb setup? i've already got the holley street dominator, edlebrock Torker and Torker II...maybe one of these or something like a victor jr.?

 

What happened to the XE274?

This is a much tamer setup then your original combination, I think that you’re dropping compression too far and going too mild with the cam. I liked the mismatched on your original combination better then this one for dragstrip use, but this one will probably make a better driver.

Unless you plan on running A LOT of boost with the blower, you’ll have to mill the AFR’s a ton to keep the compression at something reasonable.

Real world, you could probably get away with that high 10.x compression with the 274 and pump gas, assuming that you end up with a decent quench distance and some good tuning.

 

well, i've decided to run a .015 head gasket, which nets me 9.6:1 with the blower pistons and the 416 heads...

if you think the heads will flow a bigger cam, let me know. right now i'm looking at the 214/224 .442/.465 cam and a 224/234 .465/.488 cam

 

here are the specs on the second cam i listed:

Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,200-5,700 RPM
Intake Duration 050 inch Lift: 224
Exhaust Duration 050 inch Lift: 234
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./234 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 282
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 292
Advertised Duration: 282 int./292 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.465
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.488
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.465 int./0.488 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 114

i'm going with one of Summit's cams cause of cost, nothing else. $79.95 for a cam and lifter kit and i know plenty of people running them with great success...beats the $170 or so that comp wants for their XE series cams

this car went from being a drag race only car to my daily driver again, which is why i changed the combo, but the 416 heads and a .015 head gasket and the -21.1cc dished pistons, i have a 9.6:1 c/r, which will be just great.

now, do you think that the cam listed above well work ok with my bonestock heads? i will not put money/time into working these heads, it's not an option now, time is ticking on getting the motor together.

yes, when i do find another daily driver, i'll be putting a set of afr's or something of that nature on and putting a D1SC procharger and putting 10lbs. pulleys on for the time being, but i may add more later depending on where i want to go with the combo.

 

I like the bigger of the two cams. Be careful on the head gaskets you will need at least .030 of clearance between the head and piston. And that is on the tight side I personally like .038 to .040. And if you get the AFR 195 heads they worked well for me. Had two sets and both flowed well in the 280 on the intake side and 200 on the exhaust.

 

hehe, my combo changed again...lol!

here it is for real, i've already bought parts, it's just a matter of getting the heads done and then getting the thing together!

-XE274H cam: .487/.490 230*/238* on a 110lsa
-083 casting tpi heads (this is what changed the combo, i got too good of deal on them to pass them up)
-they will be ported and polished and recieved a full competition 3 angle valve job
-because of the larger 64cc heads, i'll be running the flattop 4valve relief pistons from speedpro's powerforged line.
-.041 corteco head gaskets will be used to net a solid 9.8:1 c/r
then the rest of the combo is the same:

-crane energizer aluminum roller rockers
-holley street dominator
-holley 650 double pumper.
-hedman longtubes w/ true duals
-yada yada yada.

 

you wil have to tune the motor and get use to her. I would use a 750 carb on the 350, also good luck

GB

rick king

 

eventually, i'd like to go with the proform main body.

 

MW66 are you planing on a power adder if not you can use the standard felpros head gaskets.If you are still planing on upgrading the heads soon why waist the money on good gaskets.

 

i get corteco's for free, and currently have 3 sets of them here at the house.

 

If you can live without a choke on a daily driver, go for it.

Takes a few minutes to get the engine to run after a cold start when properly tuned to run well when warmed up.

Also can't run timed vacuum advance, but with the XE274, that shouldn't be a problem.