I will soon be building a sbc 302. These are the likely specs. Also taking suggestions btw.

Stock bore.
Forged 10.1:1 pistons
Forged crank.
Cam- 244/244 @ 050 -- 538/538 lift w/ 1.6 rockers.
Weiand Team G manifold.
64cc, 200cc runner, 2.02/1.60 aluminum heads- or -64cc, cast iron, double hump 1.94/1.60, 170cc runner.
Comp Cams pro magnum 1.6 roller rockers.
Holley 750 carb
Open headers

Was told it is nearly impossible to run a 302 with an auto? but was thinking turbo 400 w/ 3500 stall. If not, t-5 or muncie 4spd

3.73 or 4.11 gears.

Hoping for a raceweight of 3000lbs

What do you guys think? Any suggestions?

 

those are soem big heads for a 302! I;d recommend the 4.11's and a 3800ish stall. You're going to need to keep the RPM's up so its not so sluggish. You can run an auto, i dont know why you couldnt???

 

IDK I was just told that there was a reason behind 1st gen camaros having a 4spd. Somthing to do with the 302's didnt wanna run worth crap with an auto behind it or something? I picked the 1.94/1.60 double humps as an option because those were factory on the DZ302 way back when. If those heads are too big, what would you recommend? I'd also like to keep this semi-streetable as it will get driven quite often. As well as maybe low-mid 12's or better would be nice.

 

if you want some motor help, hop on here and make a thread..

http://www.yellowbullet.com



btw, 302's didnt use auto's because it requires such a large stall converter, the tranny would over heat in normal driving.. back then chevy was all about steep gears, no overdrive, massive cams and the fastest car at the strip..

 

okay thanks for the help. Everyone always told me there was a reason but you're the first person to know what it was.

 

no problem..

another tidbit:
some have said the 302 has seen 7000+rpm in stock form and nearly 375hp, from the factory rated 290hp

good luck on the build

 

I went to YellowBullet and it wouldnt let me post my thread but w/e. Its not so much that I need engine building help, so much as wondering what racers/people with motor setup skills have to add to my current knowledge.

to your tidbit:
thats fairly close. I know a guy with an original 302 in his nova that goes 8k+ no problem. 375 were factory dealership #'s. The people who are lucky enough to find one that actually went trans am racing are looking at closer to 500. I made sure to do thorough research on 302's before even considering the build.

Thanks. Im hoping for at least 450 out of mine.

With that engine setup, 4spd, & 4.11's is there any reason I couldnt see roughly 11.1-11.5's @ 108+

 

11.1-11.5 is possible.. but i know that for most short stroke, high rev motors, the big guys use extremely steep gears and ridiculous launch rpms to make up for the lack of torque..

say your 302 redlines at 8k like your friends one.. with the 4.11 gear and 26" tire, you will not hit 4th gear if you trap under 110.. and a motor like that will want to have more than 3 gears to run through at the strip.. to be honest i think that with the 4.11's and 450hp, it will run somewhere around 11.6-11.7's..

 

I figured I would probably shift around 6800-7000 though because the powerband drops off right around there on his. I figure they'd be fairly similar motors. What would it take to run through all 4 gears and hopefully cross the line around 6k.

 

Please do not use camel hump heads - they are boat anchors compared to even mediocre modern design heads. They are heavy too - 100% iron....

 

the 4.11 at 7k shiftpoint is actually what you want while running a 26" tire..

6k in 4th and 26" tire would put you at 113mph.. or around mid-high 11's, depending on 60ft..


as for the heads, i have 200cc heads on my 385 and i shift at about 6700.. the camel backs with some porting would make the 302 shine..

 

The DZ302 had 2.02 and 1.60 valves from the factory. Unless you're running a factory camshaft, you will need a lot more rpm to get the power out of it. That 3.00" stroke motor should rev to 9,000 rpm with no trouble if using the correct cam and springs. They didn't know what a stall converter was back in 67/69. We used converters out of 4 cyclinder vegas back then, and they didn't last very long behind any power. Besides only girls drove autos. It wasn't till the late 70s that higher stall converters made a hit. They found out the car could run more consistant times with an auto. The 4.11 gear was a stock gear for the Z car, with 4.56 and 4.88s an option. I've seen cars with 6.17s in them back in 70. That was chevys little motor that could, and did run with the BIG dogs. I was a mopar man back in 68/69 till I got my a_s handed to me by a 69 Z. 2 weeks later I had a 67 Camaro. I did keep my Road Runner, as my tow car. If you're build this for a drag only car, put a stik in it to make some big power at 8500/9000, and leter rip.

 

I am trying to build this so I can run mid 11's or better and still be able to drive it around town whenever I feel fit. Is there a converter out there that I could run maybe like 3500 stall & still be able to drive on the street w/o too many problems.

 

MORE COMPRESSION.....

 

like 11.5:1? I went with 10.1:1 because I'd rather not end up with like 14:1 or something rediculous like that and have to run race gas seeing as that **** is expensive, especially to just be crauisin the street on. Anyone know what the max CR is on 94 octane?

 

Id go with a manual transmission, maybe a T56?
Automatic would be kind of boring, and when I think of a high revving 302 I think more of road racing then drag racing for some reason.

 

I think Im going to go with the muncie 4. Mainly b/c thats what would have originally been behind a 302. Im not exactly a fan of road racing though. drag racing is a bigger rush IMO.

 

Well a 302 wasent originally in a 3rd gen either, lol. And if your into drag and want a driver maybe go with an LS series engine?
And unless you have someone whos selling a 302 ive heard they can be hard to find.

 

I know the originals are hard to find so I plan to build my own. I wish I could find a DZ302 for cheap but that will never happen. It will be a little pricey but it will actually be cheaper than buying an LS engine. PLus I'd like to completely do away with my computer system. I can easily build a 302 out of a 350. However, I will be doing it out of a 327 block like it wouldve been 40 years ago. It wont be a DD just something to take out on a nice day, a weekend, or cruise-in/car show. I've figured my numbers and figure I can build a 450+hp motor for about $2200-3000(not that pricey i guess). Buying an LS in my area would cost me 3500+. And if I go buy an LS motor I'd want a t-56.

 

buy a stock engine/trans out of a 98+ camaro and put a set of heads/cam on it. 450+ rwhp and a 6 speed.

 

Wheres the originallity in that? lol. But at first I considered that and the only person around here willing to part out his '99 T/A wants 3500 for the motor alone. granted its only got 22,000 miles on it but thats not something I can afford right now. I also found a totalled '93 ZR-1 and my first thought was OH **** GRAB THE LT5(405 factory hp!)!!! But it was gone So my options are to hand over a boat load of money or build my own.

 

Just go to a junk yard, or look on ebay/the for sale boards on here.

If you want high horsepower an LS series engine will make 500 or 600hp for not a lot of money and still maintain perfect drivability and acceptable gas mileage.

And by build your own do you mean make your own block? Or buy an after market one.... for all that work and money youd be better off getting an LS/T56.

 

I am running on a 10:8 CR and still running on pump gas. I don't know exactly what the cut off is for running pump gas and racing gas. Maybe someone else knows

 

there is no set cut off compression ratio to start running race gas there are too many variables. and yeah id go with like 11.5 to 1 instead of the 10 to 1 on the 302 thats how the old ones were high compression...it will be hard but not impossible to run that on premium...go for the 302 its cool ive thought about it b4. if i ever get another first gen i will build one for it. but right now id stick with a 350 but its your car dare to be different have fun....

 

As far as blocks go, I can get a used/good condition long block within 10 miles from my house for less than $200 and part it out for at least that w/ no problems. Then from there I would just build the motor up with new parts. Aftermarket blocks are a waste of $$$ imo.

Gas milage isnt really one of my big worries. I just dont want to have to pay for the race gas. 302 + 4speed = a decently drivable combo I think. Will it have the power down at idle? No way, but all I need is a strong top end.

Like 355z28 mentioned, Im trying to be a little different. The first 1? definately not, however, there arent a whole lot of people trying to recreate the old engine. If it didnt come that way, they dont even bother with it.

IMO its better to have the 450hp oddball than the 600hp LS1. + I'd like to do away with my computer system & a carb'd LS motor doesnt seem right to me. Can it be done? sure, but why waste a decent engine doing so. If someone else wants to sink money into a R-T-R engine, to each his own. It seems to me there is just more pride in building 1 up from a bare block. Then you can say "yea, I did all of that myself". Thats part of what Im shootin for.

 

whats so wrong with a 302 guys?? hes just tryin to run away from the bandwagon, not be on it.. forget the doubters and go for it.. 302 and 4speed FTW!!

for 94 octane, i'd say aim for 11:1 on iron heads and 11.5:1 on AL heads..

 

Too many freakin haters these days


If I decide to run higher compression, say maybe 12.5:1, are there any octane boosters that actually work worth a crap?

 

to be honest, i would leave it at a max 11.5-11.6.. its gonna need a big enough dome to reach those numbers anyway.. also, it will run healthy on 11.5 and 94 octane.. no need to push the limits.. as for octane booster, dont waste your time.. there may be one or two that can help but why waste money to hassle for a few more hp..

i wouldnt call them haters.. they just want to follow and be like everyone else.. i actually want to build a 350.. based on a 400 block and 327 crank.. revvin to 8500 and rowing gears in the process..

 

Lol dude it's going to cost a hell of a lot more money to build a high revving 302 making 450+hp that will run for a decent amount of time. Heads alone are going to eat up $1200-$1500 unless you get a good deal.

And it's not quite as easy to do a project like this as you seem to think.. just food for thought. I'm all for learning but it's something to consider.

 

If I go the alum. head route, I know a guy who has them, fully ready to bolt on, for $800. He ran them for about 4k miles and the car ran like a raped ape. He decided against his small block and bought a 555 crate motor. Nothing like 675hp to the crank & 15 MPG. As for the iron heads, I can have those in a couple different pieces but ready to bolt on for roughly the same price. It also helps that I know a few people who work in local auto part stores and can get decent deals on certain stuff. Depending on which route I go to get my block I can profit $250+ and have a head start on it. But with total build costs, before pistons, I figured it up at some to point to be around $2300. I also figured $5-700 for my pistons. So overall cost - roughly 3k. If as I go along I change parts, yeah my cost will go up accordingly.

I've built a motor before, just not quite as strong. It was approx. 350hp 350, nothing too major I guess. But I only built that one so I could sell it for profit. I had that 1 fully assembled RTR for 1800 -- sold it for 2500. It is currently in a 2800LB low-12's s-10

I feel like I've got a good idea of what Im getting into, I just cant wait to get it started. Even if I dont quite end up with the power Im looking for, it'll still be semi-unique. Not to mention it will go into a firebird with a camaro nose on it(that project starts next weekend). By the time its all said & done this will be a 1-of-a-kind car.

 

There's always nickel and dime ****.. that's where you usually get the hurt put on your pocket book! good luck though sounds fun

 

Sorry, but the Transmaro is UGLY as HELL! My buddy did that for a while. We didnt think it was cool. Its just what we had. Dont do it if u can help it or if the car is worth keeping.

 

Im all for my nose swap for a couple different reasons. First, I've seen a one at distances and pics of close ups and I feel it ALMOST looks like a full blown camaro. Honestly, other than the taillight notches, theres no REAL difference from the firewall back. Another, Firebird parts would cost me WAY more money to find. I can get the whole camaro nose for less than $100 as opposed to roughly 450 for the bird nose(I need EVERYTHING, fenders, bumper, bumper support, headlights, hood.. everything). Its just one of those things that I'd like certain people to have to take a 2nd look to figure out whats wrong. Behind the firewall, this car is 99% PERFECT. The dummy that owned it before me was just ignorant and too damn rough on it. He hit a POLE doing 10mph. He side swiped a tree with the fender. It goes on like that. He didnt hurt anything behind that. The nose swap is all in personal preference. Some love it, some find it ugly, some say its sacrilage to both the bird and the camaro. Personally, its about being unique. Its about having something that MOST dont. Granted yeah I could have the same effect buying a brand new Ferrari but I wouldnt waste that kinda money if I had it.

As for nickel and dime, I think I've got most of that in there, I even included $40 for spark plugs.

 

pic of ur car?

 

As of right now its sitting in the garage without a front clip on it. Once its got a nose on it and at least some primer I will put a pic in my SIG. My dad ran down to W.V. this weekend and hes supposed to pick up my nose while hes down there.
http://home.comcast.net/~Mantismage/.../2toneside.JPG
With any luck I will be at this point by saturday night next week. Mine is the same color w/o the ugly silver 2-tone crap.

 

there is a couple hombres' cars rolling around here with the wrong front end on them that ive seen lately. one of them has C-A-M-A-R-O mailbox letters going down the rocker panel. lol

 

haha. It never ceases to amaze me what ignorant crap people do

 

LOL!! that almost looks exactly my buddy's old car!. Thats FUNNY!

 

You have no idea how much I expected it to read C-A-M-E-R-O.

 

lol. With people these days, I wouldnt put it past them. Unfortunately, the FAMARO lives no more. dummy dad didnt pick up the parts like he was supposed to so Im stuck hunting for 'bird parts