Azrael91966669

so I have moates auto prom
using tunerpro 5
car is 91 rs converted to 730
zz3 engine with super ram

i started playing stock aujp , 1st i saw that i was always running 108blms

i then tried to use the vette spark table and ve table for a baseline figuring the vette l98 is a closer match to the zz3.

car seemed was faster but the blm was still 110- 108 still full rich.
now i did a run at the track and was pinging from 2800-4000 shifted out of 1st and into 2nd hard pull then ping like crazy let off and punch again ping like crazy till 4000 this ran 14.5@96 ya let off midway and got back into it .
for my next track run i used the vette ve table and the stock aujp timing and ran 13.6@103 but it was also 85 and high humidity
i have the limiter in the prom set to 5800 but it is still pulling hard at that point dosnt fall off till 6200 but gm rated my engine to 5800 so im keeping it set there for now

"unrelated but a thought on my mind"
((when i started comparing spark tables the vettes are always much higher everywhere now is this because they use the coil on cap hei? I ask because every vette table and all the fbody tables to 87 are high and 88up are much lower that's when they did the switch to small cap with separate coil. ))

now on to what im doing in the week after the track run
i went back to the stock aujp
i lowered and flattened the ve table then pushed up the numbers in 80kpa and up range and up as i didn't want to go to lean during my test drive
i also set power enrich to need 99% tps to work
as i tried following the part throttle ve post

im getting blms now in the 118-130 range at all times when wot it at best was getting 85kpa with the stock throttle body .
pickup a 58mm and like magic now i have blms in the 125-130 at all times and get to 100kpa so my guess was the stock throttle body is to small for my combo? but the car feels overall slower ? even after enabling pe my fuel mileage has gone up a lot should i leave the higher ve tables richer?

i don't have a wideband yet just using the stock voltage of the o2

a lot of the posts on here have broken links as there older threads

from what i have figured out reading on here is my blms should be at or close to 128 at all times i close to that now but it dosnt seem as powerful
i ran the stock aujp for years do some engines just need to be run more rich?


also ive been just playing with somethings in the tune
i found the bin for the 350ho package for the carb so i tossed its timing table in for giggles car was ultra torquey but lacked some top end that im used to by torquey i mean let off the gas on the freeway and there is no coast it slows down like im engine braking

RBob

iTrader: (1)

As you noted the Vette SA tables changed quite a bit in '88 and up. This is when they went to aluminum heads. The '113 heads (which may be the ones on the ZZ3) only require about 28* BTDC at WOT.

As for the VE and going richer, let the BLM values guide you. Note that if you aren't worried about a cat-con, you can run richer in closed loop by adjusting the O2 tables.

RBob.

Azrael91966669

yes 113 heads

also how many cross counts should I be looking for when I did my 1st draft ve tables it had up to 900 or more cross counts now im at 200-300 is it better to have more or less ?

how do I tweak the o2 settings I attempted to use different injector settings and the thing bearly started idled like it had a very big cam and was just about spitting fuel out the tail pipes so I went back to the stock injector settings other then lbs

is this the setting I need to play with ? "o2rich/lean upper zero reference slow vs map"

SbFormula

Get yourself a wideband AFR gauge. The 02 sensor voltage is useless for WOT tuning. I custom tuned my PE mode in synch with VE table row 100kpa MAP for easier tuning. I don't really care about TPS threshold for PE, it's set really low. I want PE to engage as soon as MAP gets close to 100kpa. At WOT I have AFR set for 12.8 on the gauge, just a guess. I would need track or dyno testing. Remember that the air temperature may vary your results. Tuning at 40DegF is not the same as 100DegF. In my climate I try to tune at 68DegF, sunny and dry, Baro around 102-103. I then adjust MAT tables to compensate for variation. My engine needs a good 30 minutes of running to be efficient even if operating temp is reached within 12-15 minutes. Otherwise it's on the rich side. I run a 180Deg thermo. The wideband will tell you if your 02 sensor is doing its job in close loop. You should see a lite bounce around 14.7. Mine is off a bit because the 02 sensor is not well located (will be fixed one day!). I also converted to heated 02 sensor. Your wideband will also be a great help to tune open loop and start up. OEM was way too rich in my case.

Remember that at the end it is a big computer calculation based on hard coded data and sensor readings. Your wideband will tell you if the end result is right on. I made my own "fuel strategy chart" to illustrate the calculation.

The TPI engine has a tendency to ping at 4000 rpm. Check out my graph which compare custom tune vs OEM bin (ATNX) at WOT. RBob is right on because I ended up almost at 28*BTDC at higher RPM without knowing, just based on trial and error. I run on 91 octane no ethanol. If you get ethanol it will throw off your tune if it was tuned without it. Might be on the lean side. Could be easily fixed by changing the commanded AFR to 14.1 for 10% ethanol (just an example). If you tune on 91 and poor 87 by mistake, she will tell you with a screaming ping you whish you've never heard (been there done that!)


Best of luck!

Azrael91966669

oh I heard the sreaming ping at the track all of 2nd gear till it got above 3900 lol
when I used the vette spark it pinged from 2800-3900 was fine 4000 -5800 where it pulled like a freight train lol honestly it stopped pulling I have set to cut fuel at 5800 to force the shift just worried about over revving my current governor will let it rev to 6300 1-2 6100 2-3

I was just reading something the o2 constants thread that ve tables don't matter

so since I have a heated o2 and I have my car hit closed loop with in 30 seconds does that mean I have been editing ve tables in vain?

should I have been adjusting ve in open loop ? cause if so I fee like an *** now

and maybe the only changes ive felt have been the spark table edits? I have been trying to stay with what gm set for the zz3/4 Base 10° BTDC, 32° Total but even the factory aujp runs up to 40 in spots

so my upper spark should be 28* and low load much higher correct?

here was the spark table I made as a test and if I let off the gas it engine braked hard and it was really torquey but lost everything on the top end hope this looks ok in the post

10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 18.63 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98
10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 18.63 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98 18.98
10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 10.20 18.98 19.34 19.34 19.34 19.34 19.34
27.42 27.42 27.42 27.42 27.42 27.42 27.77 27.77 27.77 27.77 27.77 27.77
28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13
28.13 28.13 28.13 28.48 28.48 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13
29.53 29.18 29.18 29.88 29.88 28.83 28.48 28.48 28.13 28.13 28.13 28.13
30.94 31.64 32.34 33.40 33.05 31.29 29.88 29.18 28.83 28.83 28.83 28.83
31.99 32.34 33.40 34.80 34.45 31.99 30.23 30.23 29.88 29.53 28.83 28.83
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.51 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.48 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.51 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.51 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.51 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.16 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.16 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.16 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13
36.21 36.21 36.21 36.21 35.16 33.75 32.70 32.70 31.99 30.23 28.13 28.13

SbFormula

I don't know where you got RBob quote from and in what context. I've learned most of my stuff from him, so you might want to confirm with him as he is the Master.

I set my 02 window at .406 .450 .494 and never touched 'em after. That is basically theoretical stoich. If you play with it I believe it will lean out or enrich the overall calculation as the ECM will work to achieve your 02 window. I would rather work with VE so I can pin point areas that need improvement. I analyse BLM extremes and averages and attempt to pin point where VE needs to be modified. This is a long and hard process as you need to determine what I call "VE paths" and also keep in mind that the ECM as a reaction delay, means you need to correct a bit ahead of the problem area based on the VE
path... That's sounds crazy but it works

I think what RBob meant is if you move your 02 window up for instance (enrich), your wideband will read under 14.7 no matter how hard you try to adjust your VE table and vice versa if you lower your window.

I don't recommend 30 seconds for cold first start. I have open loop set at 120 seconds for warm start and 20 seconds for hot start. But this is based on my extensive testing with my setup and a Wideband gauge. A warm start is around coolant temp between 68-160Deg F. This is based on my observation and testing. They seemed to be hard coded parameters.

SbFormula

If you have set initial timing to 10*BTDC on your engine you must adjust your bin accordingly!!! GM has it set at 6*BTDC on the bin. Your engine is different than mine so you'll have to dyno test it to adjust your SA. Your are correct to adjust VE in close loop. Just keep in mind that you need the same outside temperature and a fully warmed engine to do so. Also GM stock ecm is limited as far as rpm goes. Pass 5600 rpm your are maxed out in lots of tables.

Azrael91966669

I just copied paste from tunerpro sorry its missing the rpm and map kpa numbers

and I did adjusted it in the bid I have it at 6 on the engine and 5.98 what ever but I lowered the spark advance so It would be at 10 at idle just really like how it sounds there

he posted that in the O2 constants thread on here

I only reason I lowered the timer settings is the o2 was reading as "ready" Hot before I even started the car since I have have a heated O2 mind you I normally hit the key to on then hook up the laptop by then the O2 is warmed up and I start the car and its already reading properly

so basically I've been doing this backward I should disable closed loop get my ve correct there and then go back to closed and figure out how close to the ve it should be ?

like I said am new to this I just read the basic guides and started giving it a shot

basically 1st thing I tried was using a the 91 vettes ve tables and spark tables and set the injectors to 24.11lb .
That felt great for driving around but blm was 110-112 at all times
also ran that at the track for a test but had the major pinging into 2nd gear like I stated in the 1st post
my 2nd try at the track was toss back on the the stock aujp spark below 4000 that and keep the vette ve table
that stopped the pinging but I knew it wasn't where I wanted it yet
so then after I started playing with the ve tables till it matched 128 or as close as I can get It but im looking for verification that I was understanding the basics properly but then every time I read a different thread I am more confused like did I waste all this time tweaking the ve if closed loop ignores them or should I just test in open loop and watch my o2 voltage I wont be able to get a wideband for a few more paychecks but im just trying to get a basic tune on this thing

whole reason ive decided to get into tuning was putting the superram on the car made it slower stock tpi on this engine ran 13.2 @104 something and adding the superram it was running 13.7@ 99 hence im currently calling it my "slowram"

SbFormula

Oh my!!! SA tuning is based on multiple tables and their interaction. You have SA in PE and SA in normal mode. SA is also affected by CT. The table you posted is only the basic SA. You need to add PE and CT correction.

SbFormula

I suggest you read all the posts on this site and attempt to get a better understanding of tuning. Lots of this stuff has been discussed in prior forums. It might take you a while but there is no way around it. Otherwise we are going to be here for a while and I have to go to bed.


Cheers

Azrael91966669

mind you that was my 1st spark table attempt ,I just based off the what gm wanted for this engine then comparing it from the chip gm made for the ccc prom I know it wasn't the best but I tossed it on to see what it would do .
like i said i attempted the vette spark table ie engine with the same heads and it would ping honestly for feeling the best was the stock aujp below 4000 and vette spark above 4000 im just playing around with close to stock till i get better at this

the real issue is how rich the car runs and that's why i tried for follow the post on part throttle ve and attempted to get all my blms in the 128 range ie 126-130 but it honestly didn't seem to effect how rich the exhaust was now maybe it did but it sure didn't seem like it . I then i read about the O2 constants and how the stock setting is 100mv to high to compensate for the air injection that i no longer have so im going to set the constants to .45-.50 instead of .55-.60 like it is set to stock im hopeing that brings the richness down when in closed loop.

Azrael91966669

Ive read up a lot on here and a few of the other sites about tuning but mainly here .
im just wanting to make sure im doing this correctly

1st i started with the basics 24lb injector disable vats disable air injection and disable egr set rev limiter converter lock up and release speeds and lower fan temps to match my 185 thermostat

2nd i did a basic spark table currently using stock ironhead timing below 4000 and alum head timing above 4000 this was just to get me in the ball park and not ping .
i think that was a good for a start?
3rd for ve
basically what i had gathered was disable pe to get the blms in check 1st for all map ranges .
now maybe i missed if i should have done that in open loop i figured i was doing ok in closed loop since both the int , blm fine , blm main all stay close to 128ish ie the int varies a little higher ie 135 and lower 116" always around when i do a throttle change ie a let off or accurate
but blms stay at 126 -130 at all times according to my logs
that was how i assumed i would get atlest a base tune for ve tables setup.
did i do this correctly or incorrectly ?

next was to enable pe -currently using the stock settings
now the temp correction for spark i also left stock for now

right now i just changed my o2 constants to .45-50 instead of .55-60 ill see what that does on the next drive since i was still running a rich before

SbFormula

If you lower your 02 window like you want to do it will push the BLM down which is normal and it will lean out which is want you want in your case. Based on your data log you can then lower your VE to get back to 128. I will say it again, you MUST have a wideband gauge to tell you if everything is ok. If you believe she runs too rich with the BLM you have, that means something is wrong. A wideband gauge will help you with that.

You MUST be in close loop to adjust VE.
Open loop, start up routine and PE tuning MUST be done with a wideband gauge since the 02 sensor is not taken into account by the ECM. You WILL destroy the engine at WOT high rpm is you are too lean!
Yes your BLM might be volatile on accel/decel depending on your tuning. This is an area that I am still studying and it's called Acceleration Enrichment and Deceleration Enleanment

SA tuning must be done with data log to see the final result. SA final result varies depending on a lot a factors such as Initial advance, PE, CT, close TPS, Deceleration Fuel Cut Off (DFCO), knock routine, idle rpm, Deceleration Enleanment, etc.. The chart I posted early in this thread was a final calculation of SA in PE in Excel spreadsheet based on my tuning. It was not my SA main table. This calculation was confirmed by datalogging at WOT.

Make sure you disable EGR and AIR in the constant tables
Make sure initial spark advance is setup correctly in the constant table

I have attached an EST chart base on my understanding and testing. It might not be 100% accurate but it shows how the whole SA thing works with a 7730

Best of luck!

Azrael91966669

so after playing around a bit more and reading more and more

i started a new tune i used the stock aujp for my setup
i logged with the stock bin loaded to see whats going on
pig rich at all times
i also know from before got the autoprom hardware.
i used to keep my base timing at 10 with the stock tune so i added 4deg of timing across the board to put me where i was but was able to keep the actual base timing at 6 now on the chip and on the engine.
i had no knock but the table was still pretty low even with what pe adds

"and what is the difference with AE and PE im guessing the same thing as they seem to be used interchangeably on this board"

so i looked to the vette spark table on the bin AXCR i copied its table and pe changes and its mat changes then i was able to get some knock counts so i played with its table a bit and the pe changes to match
lots of spark at light cruise btw pings above 43 at light cruise as i figured
and i wanted have around 28 for high load .
now even with max spark advance set to 38 it still goes to 44 is this because max spark advance added to base?

now i watched and then rewatched my last log from when i was at the track
i only had 89-93 kpa at wot but i still had the stock throttlebody i have since picked up the matching throttle body for the superram 58mm now i get 100kpa anytime i floor it
now what i noticed was the spark numbers are higher 80-95 then at 100 so i think that's why it pinged like crazy at the track
so i corrected that on my spark table 90 95 and 100 are all the same so im hopeing to not have the ping issue again .


also since i have air injection removed and disabled in the prom i removed its mv setting and have it set to come on only at a crazy high time the engine will never see
same for egr its set to 254 and i zeroed out its table settings


i don't understand how the cts effects spark yet so i left that stock
i understand that temp effects spark but not sure how it works in the prom

also it seems every time i do i search on here for some of my questions
the answers are about a different ecm or the settings name is different or the name is the same but the way my table in tuner pro5 rt looks completely different

i also noticed that even once i got my blms to 124-130 range the car still smelled rich
and the o2 had had very high voltage i mean it was shifting but stayed high
so when i found that post by Rbob that i quoted
so adjusted the o2 idle scaler settings
"idle o2 r/l slow zero error lower" from 0.56 to 0.46
"idle o2 r/l slow zero error upper" from 0.60 to 0.50
"idle o2 r/l threshold fast" from 0.60 to 0.50
that made the idle no longer rich smelling

but i noticed even when driving and it seemed to run rich ie coming to a stop it would have a rich smell for a bit so i saw that there is
a table for "o2 r/l upper zero reference error slow vs map"
stock the settings where
20 kpa 0.62 changed to 0.52
30 kpa 0.65 changed to 0.55
40 kpa 0.67 changed to 0.57
50 kpa 0.67 changed to 0.57
60 kpa 0.65 changed to 0.55
70 kpa 0.63 changed to 0.53
80 kpa 0.58 changed to 0.48
90 kpa 0.56 changed to 0.46
100 kpa 0.55 changed to 0.45
now my nb o2 numbers look good and the car seems to just be running overall better
ie the ve tables didn't seem to help they just changed the blm numbers but the engine didn't seem to respond to what numbers i was seeing but i was in closed loop
so i assume in closed loop it only responding to the o2 sensor but just uses the ve table for reference?
now when im in open loop and watching my o2 voltage it is under 400 at idle with no cross counts .
im guessing that means i need to adjust the
"idle open loop % change afr "scalar to something other then 0 like it was stock?

im also guessing i also need to change the tables for
"loop open % change AFR vs map"
"loop open % change AFR vs temp" ?

right now to compensate as i don't want it running lean
i wait for 30 sec to start the car so my heated o2 is up to temp
then i have the engine hit closed loop with in 30 sec
open loop is very lean at start up
that mean my ve table is off?
i ask since idle is at 128 in closed loop int bearly moving at idle 126-130 so i assumed i set it correctly.

i still have much to learn but currently car is running pretty good im attaching my current bin and xdf so some one can tell me what im doing right and what im doing wrong

thanks in advance

SbFormula

"and what is the difference with AE and PE im guessing the same thing as they seem to be used interchangeably on this board"


AE = Acceleration Enrichment (this for when you depress the gas pedal to avoid bogging down)
PE = Power Enrichment (for WOT and performance it uses a fixed AFR and ignores the O2 sensor)

now even with max spark advance set to 38 it still goes to 44 is this because max spark advance added to base?


Actually, not sure on this one


i only had 89-93 kpa at wot but i still had the stock throttlebody i have since picked up the matching throttle body for the superram 58mm now i get 100kpa anytime i floor it


Makes sense, bigger engine needs bigger mouth

also since i have air injection removed and disabled in the prom i removed its mv setting and have it set to come on only at a crazy high time the engine will never see
same for egr its set to 254 and i zeroed out its table settings


Good

i don't understand how the cts effects spark yet so i left that stock
i understand that temp effects spark but not sure how it works in the prom


CTS spark table will add or remove spark based on CT & MAP

also it seems every time i do i search on here for some of my questions
the answers are about a different ecm or the settings name is different or the name is the same but the way my table in tuner pro5 rt looks completely different


Yep, but you could get a feel on how the system works in general. Try to focus on ECM 7730 speed density. Lots of Corvettes have it, so sometimes Corvette forums will have some info too

now my nb o2 numbers look good and the car seems to just be running overall better


Great, you MUST get an AFR gauge


so i assume in closed loop it only responding to the o2 sensor but just uses the ve table for reference?


Yes in closed loop the 02 sensor provides feedback for injectors BPW correction. But the VE tables are part of a complex calculation for Injector BPW (see early post with Fuel Strategy Chart)


now when im in open loop and watching my o2 voltage it is under 400 at idle with no cross counts .


You could be lean which is not good. Very hard to adjust open loop without an AFR gauge. There are several tables involved. You have a start up routine and then regular open loop. From experience, the final commanded AFR in open loop is off from reality. This is due to complex ECM calculation with too many parameters. That's why I tune with AFR gauge


im guessing that means i need to adjust the
"idle open loop % change afr "scalar to something other then 0 like it was stock?


I have mine set at 0% but this is just a preference and it is part of an overall open loop tuning calculation


im also guessing i also need to change the tables for
"loop open % change AFR vs map"
"loop open % change AFR vs temp" ?


Yes, but again, changes without an AFR gauge is a big guess. The O2 voltage you refer to is not accurate.

right now to compensate as i don't want it running lean
i wait for 30 sec to start the car so my heated o2 is up to temp
then i have the engine hit closed loop with in 30 sec
open loop is very lean at start up
that mean my ve table is off?


By logic yes, but not likely if the correction is 126-130. Probably your Open Loop tables are off a bit because of your new set up. But how do you know it's lean without an AFR gauge? Don't rely on the O2 sensor voltage it is inaccurate. http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm read this for a better understanding. Between 200mv and 800mv, the AFR barely varies +/-.

i ask since idle is at 128 in closed loop int bearly moving at idle 126-130 so i assumed i set it correctly.


Sounds like it

i still have much to learn but currently car is running pretty good im attaching my current bin and xdf so some one can tell me what im doing right and what im doing wrong

Did I tell you to get an AFR gauge?

Azrael91966669

I will get an wide band when I can afford it keep having other issues like the 9 bolt rear broke last week lol .
Also the readings are max .400 shows low as .048 I'm just staying in closed till I pick up the wide band kit

SbFormula

You will love that AFR gauge. It can actually be setup to data log.
Best of luck!

Azrael91966669

well today i found out how important having the correct injector constant and its correction table as well as voltage table set

i have lt1 injectors ya i got them cause there 15 for a set of 8 at my local junkyard and there are always some there
and every time i would try there tables the idle would be lean and choppy but what i didn't try before was using a stock ve table and changing the constants
i was setting the ve tables low to fix the how rich it was

apparently others have this same issue since most of the bins i dl for compare the ve is always set very low but they are using the stock injector tables in all of them

stock lt1 injector settings
injector flow rate = 24.90 lb/hr
Injector Pulse Width Correction Vs. Battery Voltage
0.0 = 305.18
1.6 = 305.18
3.2 = 7782.09
4.8 = 7782.09
6.4 = 3997.86
8.0 = 1770.04
9.6 = 1037.61
11.2= 671.40
12.8= 366.22
14.4= 213.63
16.0= 183.11
17.6= 183.11
19.2= 91.55
20.8= 0.00
22.4= 0.00
24.0= 0.00
25.6= 0.00
Injector Pulse Width Low Offset Vs. Base Pulse Width
0.488 = 381.47
0.732 = 244.14
0.976 = 152.59
1.22 = 106.81
1.46 = 61.04
1.71 = 45.78
1.95 = 30.52
2.20 = 15.26
2.44 = 0
2.69 = 0
2.93 = 0
3.17 = 0
3.41 = 0
3.66 = 0
3.90 = 0

those simple changes made even the stock tune work much better as a base
maybe it should be stressed more to get the correct settings for injectors if you have ones different from stock
my assumption was incorrect in thinking the lt1 injectors should be close match to the stock 22lb tables

also it would be nice to have a complete chart some where for the stock type and all the aftermarket
i tried using the accel charts but as i said before i had already been well on my way tuning it and had the ve numbers to low to work with the correct settings

i knew my engine isn't exactly that much different from a vette l98 and as every says the zz3 cam is so mild anyway
i wondered why the engine needed such extreme ve changes to just get to 128
and now with correct injector info the stock tune for normal driving atlest is almost dead on ie below 1800rpm and that's great because that's where i spend most of the time driving anyway
at this point I'm hoping for the fuel mileage to go up and now it should be fun tuning instead of a constant struggle

SbFormula

[QUOTE=Azrael91966669;5960670]
maybe it should be stressed more to get the correct settings for injectors if you have ones different from stock
my assumption was incorrect in thinking the lt1 injectors should be close match to the stock 22lb tables

Now that you say it, I remember having to tune those tables after changing the OEM Multec to new Bosh III replacement. Both were 19lbs. The Bosh were more effective so I add to pull the added µsec. I ended up zeroing the Injector Pulse Width Low Offset Vs. Base Pulse Width Table. I did some testing at idle with different voltage reading. I could see the BLM were reacting to voltage variation.

I did not know from your previous posts that you had changed the injectors. Yes it is essential that you change the constant table otherwise you throw the calculation off. Check out my post#4 with the Fuel Strategy and its calculation.

Azrael91966669

Ya i thought i had it in my 1st post this also solved my lean in open loop issue

SbFormula

That's what TGO is for. Brainstorm with others and find the solution.

SbFormula

Not sure I understand this one! I'm curious on how a BLM can affect performance in close loop normal cruise? If it's within parameters, the AFR is adjusted and the car runs smooth and clean. 128 is the normal target in close loop. A low BLM (<128) in close loop could indicate an overall BPW calculation that is too rich and vice versa. It could surely indicates if in Power Enrichment (PE) the AFR is too rich or lean but that is just a guess without an AFR gauge. In PE the INT correction (02 sensor) is ignored and the ECM is in pure theoretical calculation without feedback. The calculation will take into account the last BLM recorded. I've seen cars with low BLM in close loop but lean in PE and vice versa. A BLM of 108 is 15.6% off target. That seems to be not "normal".

AFR wideband gauge is the key.

Cheers

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

Azrael91966669, Where are you at in Cleveland?
Shoot me a PM.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

He is not tuning his car, his bin was purchased.
This statement is rubbish, do not get bogged down discussing it.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

Might have been a typo using the number pad, he probably meant to write 128...

Azrael91966669

update as of last year i had a perfect drivability tune up to around 3500 even with the wideband i I'm having trouble getting the upper ve tables correct , as pe was kicking in
and as of this spring i did tpis ported afr heads .
I'm slowly getting a new drivability tune together but i had a problem with the correct injector constants I'm running out of Ve numbers ie to keep it near 128 i have to have some numbers at 99 now I'm thinking this means A. I'm running out of injector B I'm having some other issue ?
as a test i gave it the 22lb stock constants and was able to get some room back in the table but the int numbers are all over the places where as they are more stable with the proper constants but like i said even with 99 100 ve I'm at 134ish blm id like to think the 24.90 injectors should handle what my cars output is
also ive learned idle should not be near 128 more like 118 for a stable idle learned this once when the engine got wet , couldn't start the car with my chip and random thought told me put the stock chip in and of course it started right ill be it with a slight miss .
now also after logging my lt1 car ive noticed that gm keeps the blms around 128 ie 120-134 depending on load so that's how ive been basing my drivability tunes and they work just fine
my current issue is once the engine is at normal operating temps for about 20 min 190-220 it chugs bad engines tone and feeling changes but when viewing the data log there is no glaring issues o2 is showing normal the wideband reads no different then before the blms are where they should be no knock timing all the sensor read outs are fine not like one is going haywire and what not . So I'm not sure whats going on there , Also once this chugging/lower power output starts no amount of letting the car cool allows it to come back to normal other then a restart .
Ive looked to see if the tables change anything at those temps and some do so i tried copying the lower temp numbers as a test no change still has chugging . engine did this before the head swap i just keep the the fans on and a bit less timing to keep the temps down but now with the new heads even that's not working temps are still going up even with a newer thicker radiator