Hey guys, i just got my 86 TA running for my wife, runs great, but the 700r and stock stall are not cutting it as i planned on a TH350 anyways, butthe specs on the motor are:

355 woth FTs, 906 casting vortecs, performer intake, holey 750 carb(vac), headman shortys with Y pipe, 3 inch out thru some knock off dual driver side exit muffler, now, cam is a Elgin grind i decided to experiment with, it is a direct fit for OE roller motors and was a mere 160$ plus shipping:

230/230 @.050 with .480 int/exh on a 108 LSA. Has 1.5 RRs on the int and 1.6 RR on the exh.

Sounds great, but wants to die in gear as any cammed small block will without a stall. The thing is, when i do and auto(never anymore) i usually go with a gear AND stall, but since it is her DD, i am not sure what size to get, since the 3.07 gears will want to keep stall speed lower, i was thinking of a 2000 stall, but i wanted to go with a 2500.

Anyone agree with this decision or have any insite? I have never built a motor and not used a gear with a automatic, doubt it will ever get a better gear as she is not a hard core drag racer anyways.

 

What's the total (advertised) duration. That will determine what stall speed will work best. A street/strip car wants a stall speed about 500 rpm into the start of the powerband. Full race needs a stall about 1000 rpm into the powerband.

It doesn't sound like much of a cam. 2500 is probably about right for it.

 

I'd go 2500-2800 with that cam.

 

That is what i thought, but i was thinking it might keep the trans hotter than if it had a gear, i will throw a external trans cooler on it.

I cant go by advertised duration, every cam maker uses a different spec to advertise it(.020/.030 ect).

But yea, it is mild but not a small.

 

i'm still confused on what it is exactly that you're trying to accomplish? That car wants more gear, i'd personally put a torker 2 single plane on her and throw some nitrous at the b*tch...but that's just me

 

being on a 108, you can get away with a bigger converter and it might even drive better.
having one custom built for the cars rear gear will help with driveability as well.
id do at least a 3000, but thats just me.
a tight one should get the job done.

 

Not all converters are the same. If you got 4 different 3000 stall converters in 8, 9, 10 or 12 inch, they would all operate differently even though they all stall at the same speed.

 

I am worried a stall that big will boil the trans fluid with that tall of a gear.

 

thats a bad combination, imo. you should swap that gear out, its gonna be hatin life in od with a 3.07 gear and a carb. i would put some 3.73's in it or something. and youll need to put some sort of small converter in there of course.... fluid temps will be much happier if its a lockup converter if your still using it with the 3.07 gears. for a daily driver, you could have put a 210-215ish cam in there and left all that stuff alone, imo.

 

Look just remember whatever stall you buy thats going to be your lowest rpm while you are trying to hold a speed on the road. it will take off almost normal but when your cruising going 40mph it wont budge under that designated rpm because the stall basically slips until its rpm. i have a 2200 stall for the street with a .502 lift comp cam and i could drive it with the stock stall, you just have to tune the carb a little and set your idle up to around 900-1000. get some gears and a bigger exhaust too we almost have the same setup and im only running 14.7s because i have a stock exhaust and stock 2.73 gears. im going with 3.90s. so if your wife is driving it alot on the street dont go above 2400 because it will be a pain in the ***.

 

I sell these converters on a regular bassis. I have even sold about 6 to members here on the board with no complaints.

Your options are a 12 inch stock style lock up core that will be frshened up and possibly strengthened with furnace, heli or tig welded fins.

The stall ranges will be a 2200-2500 for the low stall. It will be the minimum that your car will accept to have the cam working with the stall. However, it will feel no different than a stock converter. It will perform better because your cam requires it to opperate in its range. But again, it will be the minimum you can use.

I would reccomend the High Stall version which will show 2600-2800depending on the torque that your engine program will feed it. It's about 600-800 rpm's into your cam range and will allow the car to opperate from a point of strength. Again, this will hardly feel like a high performance converter but will work behind the scenes to produce good results. These sell for $274 new.

Your other options are a 10 inch street and strip style converter or a custom configured 9.5 inch unit. Either of these converter will run you well over $500 and be overkill for what you are running.

Let me know if I can answer any more questions or help

 

i know yank can put together a stall for any rear gear and drive flawless.
their pricing is overkill for what you are trying to do, but there are many vendors out there with tricks.
call around and see how you feel after talking with them.

 

Well, as for the lock up responses and OD, it is going away, i am going with a TH350 when i get the extra cash, so RPM will stay up, the 700r is ridiculous for a converter and they just can not be built for a good price.

 

When you get rid of the 700-r4 you'll be getting rid of your torque converter as well. They are not interchangable to the T-350. You will need to purchase a new converter that is specific to the t-350. Thats why it makes sense to get the cheap 700-r4 converter to hold you over. When you go to T-350 you can get a good converter for it.

 

That is what i am saying, i am getting rid of the 700r and getting a stall for a th350 with the new th350 trans. I would get a converter for the 700r if it was worth a ****, but it doent shift properly, it is a 2 speed at WOT, so it is junk.

 

how many WOT passes is your wife really going to make?

 

 

i just think it's a waste of money and time to go with the th350. it's gonna cost nearly the same to build a th350 to handle the kind of power that you're putting down as the 700r4 is. the clutch/band/steels kit for a 700r4 is ~$300, then pay someone $250 to rebuild it, spend a little extra cash on a decent converter. a lock up style converter will work just like stock once on the highway.

let's way the pro's and cons:

700r4
Pro's:
-OD and lock up to keep mileage up and heat in the converter/trans down
-direct bolt in

Con's:
-a little more initial cost, but has longterm great results

th350
Pro's:
-a little cheaper to build
-will handle more power than a same priced 700r4

Con's:
-must use 9" tailshaft version to use stock driveshaft, or find expensive 82-83 f-body th350 driveshaft
-must modify or replace the crossmember
-must use chincey torque arm mount that doesn't stay together very well
-no OD or lockup which will cost more in fuel efficiency and cause more heat in the tranny at cruising speeds


it will cost you more money to do the conversion than it would to rebuild the 700r4 and put in a decent converter, and will cost you more in fuel to keep the car on the road. i understand wanting to have a decently quick car for your wife, i'm building one for my wife, but it just doesn't make sense to give her a race car, unless she plans to race it.

old skool race car stuff was cool when you could get gasoline for $0.20...but this day in age it just doesn't make financial sense to do what you're trying to do.

 

I thought the initial question was about a temporary stall converter for the
700-r4 untill he changes over to a T-350? Did the question change to which trans should he run? I'm just not sure whats going on in this thread?

 

Matt is on this one.

For $300ish bucks you can get a good rebuild kit with the oversized boost valves and the billet intermediate servo for the 700r4. Assembled properly that will handle the power that that 355 can put out, and it will save you a bunch in fuel, and come off the line better(especially if you don't shorten up that rear gear a bunch). A good converter will not make enough temp difference to talk about, while a cheapy could easily burn it up.

With that much duration, you need to think about re-gearing. That cam is too far from it's powerband to cruise efficiently with a carb, it will likely get better fuel economy with a 3.42 or 3.73 gear(assuming a typical 26" tire).

Past that, it's all in teh carb and ignition tune-up. What size powervalves vs how much engine vacuum at idle(loaded)?

 

No, the question is what size converter for a th350 with a tall gear.

Nova, the problem i hav, is no one around here can build a 700r worth a crap, if they can...pft, looking at over 1000$, no way. For me and what is available, the th350 is the only option to make it reliable, even the guys i see getting a 700 built, STILL have problems in little time after 5-10K miles.

Not to mention, she drives 4 miles to work(im jealous), and the most she drives it is to the mom inlaws 10 miles, so fuel cost is not a worry at all.

Maybe it is the Texas heat...?

 

Try one of these.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60402/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60400/10002/-1
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60401/10002/-1

The last one may be too much for the setup.

 

Sorry, I guess I missed that in your first post.

Any 11 or 12 inch converter loosened to a 2500-2800 stall will work great and cost between $100 and $180.

You could go with a nice 10 inch street/strip converter for around $350 and even get a real beefed up one with ballooning plates and furnace brazing for about $420. I would still stick to the 2500-2800 stall though.

 

i don't believe that. i would, however, believe the notion that you don't KNOW anyone yet....i work at a parts store here in GA. i've lived here for 12 years. only in the last year that i've started working at the parts store did i realize the amount of people that do work...good work...and have parts...good used parts. go to your local parts stores, all of them. ask them if they know of any good transmission guys, or guys who work on them who do a good job that does the stuff on the side of their real jobs. 9 times out of 10 the parts stores are actually selling and delivering parts to garages all over the local area. consequently they know who does things right, and who does things cheap...

i know that you're a marine, which means you probably aren't from the area you live in. you should do a little asking around and see if you can find anything local...you might be suprised

you could always learn how to do it yourself...i know you like doing all your own work

 

I bought my rebuild kit for my TH350 from Dana at Probuilt. I built it myself with some research and a few speciality tools. He has great kits for the
700r4 also.

If its a DD, find someone to rebuild the 700r4 or do it yourself. If its going to be a regular at the strip, then the th350 wouldnt be a bad choice.

The 3.07 gear with the TH350 at highway speeds wont be to hard on the car.

Your choice.

 

we're talking a 3.07 gear and a TH350


that's like a 3.73 gear and overdrive....


I don't see the problem here at all with running a 3 speed trans imo.

 

i just see the advantages of a 3.06:1 first gear, and a lock up converter...

 

its not an issue until you start trying to run a higher stall speed like 3k+ (depending on how loose the converter is) to better suit the 230 duration camshaft.
a 3.07 gear, 3000 stall, cruising in 3rd gear at 55mph up a hill will probably be sitting at ~3k rpms slipping the doo doo out of the converter. pretty much boiling itself from the heat.

 

What i read:
Car dies when putting it in gear, i need a looser convertor

What i know, your cam is'nt that "hot" and your factory stall is'nt that tight that it will kill your engine when shifting into gear.....adjust your idle mixture screws.....if anything, the added tq of the new cam over the old stocker will loosen your factory convertor since it's seeing more tq at the flywheel. in just about 99% of the cases the cars die when going into gear, it's a mixture issue.

Mine did that when i got it back from Pro Systems and bolted it on, called Pat and he told me what he wanted me to do, which was just adjusting the air mixture screws on the metering blocks...fixed. We ddropped my BIL's old azzed back up 355 in my car last week and i stuck my old 8" convertor that flashed 5200 behind my 427. Behind his 355 it only goes to 3000, and initally killed the engine when putting it in gear....adjusted the air mixture screws, base idle at 1200rpm and drops to 1000rpm in gear.....where initally it was base idled at 2000rpm just to stay running and dies when dropped into gear.

Not to mention the fact, yoru combo is severly focked up, you say your getting rid of the 700r4 anyways, so why not take the money your willing to drop on a new convertor for the OD tranny, and vest that into your ultimate goal of the TH350????

 

The only way to really get a good dial in on a holley is via a vacuum gauge. I can get one running pretty good by ear, but not quite as good or as consistent as when dialing from a gauge. You need to know the in gear idle vac anyways to properly spec a power valve, so the gauge is a must have anyhow.

Properly rebuilding any trans should always include changing the apply piston seals, a job not easily done w/o buying or building some specific tools. As mw66nova pointed out, a good parts store will know of more shops/good mechanics than you even knew existed. I sold more than my share of parts through my college years and can attest to finding out out about many small time rinky-dinky hidden shops that turned out really good work; had I not been selling them parts I would have never known they existed.

DIGGLER pointed out the 3-speed/higher stall/higher gearing issue. If you're cruising below the stall speed, any time it "sees" load the converter will be slipping excessively causing extra heat. - I would imagine that's why Fast LS1 is spec'ing a 2500-2800 converter. He works with transmissions and converters for a living, he probably has some kind of idea what he is talking about.

All that said, the cost of getting a decently built th350 + the conversion will likely run very close to the cost of a decently built 700r4. The converter for a 700 would be a little more, but since you could retain the lock-up, you could go to a higher stall to gain performance, while still having good street manners.

 

That is about what i want, i dont think it would be too bad at all and i dont think a 18-2200 would be enough

Well, i mean for a price i can afford, they want way too much. No, i am not in the armed forces and never have been.(trying to be highway patrol though)

I would rather have a pro build it and not have to remove the trans again because i dont know how to build them, i can do a T5 all day

I think it will be fine, and as i said, i have no worry about fuel economy.

The low first gear is a plus to me as well, but i am willing to lose it in favor of the cheaper route. Not to mention, there are no hills around here...maybe the occasional overpass?

Dont know why the cobo is effed, but the tight stock converter is just too tight for a motor that has no power at 500 RPM, in 1100 RPM idle, it drops to 450-550, so a 800 or so idle will try to die in gear, it likes to idle around 850ish. I have tuned it as well as i can, i can fire it up and not die when cold and it is ok to prevent dying if the idle is 1100 in neutral, but the fact remains this 700r is a POS, it wont go into third at WOT, and it slips anyways.

If it was a good trans, YES, i would get another converter and be happy, but it is a POS.


I dont know where you guys get your labor, but here everyone wants double the price to do a 700R, so the price is not close, the converters are double nearly as well.

And since ditching the TBI and PCM, there is no lock up anyway.

 

This is the one i was really looking at:

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60401/10002/-1

 

That Jegs converter is a Transmission Specialties part #10000LS (low stall)
We advertise it as 2800-3200 Rpm's here at TS. If you put that into your car it will be loose on the street but great on the track. 1st gear will rip but 2nd and third will be very mushy. I run one in my car with around 500 FWHP and it still feels sloppy in high gear on the street. It would suck in a car with 300HP.

We actually produce that converter here at TS and sell it for $346 so $199 is a surprisingly good deal for it. But it is definetely to loose for your combo.

You would need the 10000XLS ( Xtra low stall 2600-2900) which we do not produce for Jegs.

You could also use part # GM2800 which sells for $184.00.

http://transmission-specialties.com/...0e849579b84c01

 

I ran the http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60401/10002/-1 converter and didnt like it with my setup. Only real problem I had with it was were the snout was welded to the casing. Fluid came out from behind the weld. I sent it back to jegs and upgraded to the this unit http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60404/10002/-1[/url]
Do you make it for Jegs also?

Couldnt he get away with this converter? http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60400/10002/-1

 

The 60404 that you are currently running is our 10000HS. We rate it around 3700-4100 stall. Thats ours as well.

The last one you posted, the 6400 is our 12" HS. It will work but being that it's a 12 inch it is very very heavy and not very efficient. I wouldn't put that in. The GM2800 is a great one and the 10000XLS are the right converters for the car. When he decides to go with the T-350 of course.

 

Tranny for tranny, and i'm going waay back to my beginning for this with my 355 that was pretty mild only running 12's after a few years of parts swapping.
initially i had a 700r4 rebuilt with all the goodies and used a Coan 2800 stall with my 3.42 gear

I honestly cant recall the numbers on track. I then switched over to a TH350 with a Jegs's 3500+ stall, everything else was the same in the car, and i do remember i was floored when NOTHING changed on my timeslip, 60's all the way through the 1320 was almost spot on to where i was with the 700r4, and the lil variances i did see i chaulked upto weather since we were having a different head/cross wind that day while all the other stuff was pretty close temp,humidity,AD, etc...

 

Do you guys make the XHD units? http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60431/10002/-1

When I upgraded the last time, the case and snout looked different. The hub/snout looked beefier and I think the mounts were also. I thought they might have misboxed it and set the XHD unit instead.

Overall it has been a nice 10" converter.

 

Yes we make those as well.

 

Good to know. I've got a th400 I'm re-re-doing right now that will be utilizing one of those in the close future. He had a no-name, no-anti balloning or nothing(it clunked around really noticably when out of the car) in a '69 camaro that's probably 3500lbs or better, behind a 461ci big-block with an 871 on top(8% under driven). Driving around on the street and it cooked the trans; I can't imagine why......

 

The first is incompatible with the second.

Keep the TH700. You'll get more complaints with a TH350 on the street than you will with a TH700 on the track.

 

If its a DD, keep the 700. lol send it to me and i can bulletproof it for you for waaaaaaay less then a thousand. If you want a decent cheep converter, you cant really beat b&m's 2400. I ran one for two years, and while it was a little tight at the track, it was great on the street. Now i have a vig 3500 and its great on the track but feels like im melting the trans on the street.


And put some 3.73's in it!!!!

 

You can build it decently for less than $1k, but a truely "bullet-proof" requires considerably more than $1k just in parts, none-the-less labor. You can and likely will exploded a stock drum and/or input shaft much beyond 450-500ftlbs, especially in a typical street weight car.

-That said a unit that would be "bullet-proof" for this application wouldn't need more than the typical vb and pump upgrades, a good intermediate servo, and good clutches/band.

I'm suprised to hear of anyone having luck with the B&M garbage. I've never found one that was inside of 20% efficiency.

 

Haha, by "bulletproof" I meant for his application. I'm on the third season for mine, maybe 500-600 passes on it. Pretty basic, but done right. TCI red clutches/ rebuild kit, B&M transpack, beast shell. The reason I went with the b&m converter was that I scattered my old trans (input drum) and needed a cheap converter that day.

For what he is doing the 700 would work great. 3.42's or 3.73's would be great.

 

I used that converter in a friends car actually if i remember right not, worked well with the 3.08 gears, even drove well on the street and roasted the hell out of them when we would get in it. I forgot about that.

That seems fine to me, would like a smidge more, but the one i mentioned last, i do remember it worked AWESOM on the street, BUT it was a bit different engine combo.

That is god to hear man, with a stall i didnt think it would be anything but better than not having one at all in the 700.

Well, she will drive my truck when she needs to go any real distance, she just loves driving the car in general, but i have never had luck with 700r4s and no one i know has ether, big waiste of mone from my experience and like i said, the ones that will live for a while and not have problems, i just dont have the cash.

Hard to find gears for a BW 9 bolt as it is, then the fact that shipping to you and back is not worth it.