to the point that the steering wheel wanted to shake out of my hands. the car would leave with the fronts about a foot off the ground, then when it would set it back down, it would shake really bad. i just had a front end alignment. told them to give me as much positive caster as possible, set the two to 1/16th in, and set camber back to stock specs...the car is lowered, and i'm wondering if the camber to stock specs is hurting more than helping.

so i need some solutions. i'm certain that limiting front end travel will do what i need it to do, but what else can i do? spend $160 on a spohn bump steer kit? i don't even know how those things work, or why they do...could i just shove the camber back in so then when the car is at "ride height going down the track" the camber is straight?

anything is appreciated guys!

oh, and no 11's yet....got another slew of 12.0x's though, lol!

 

It really needs to be on an alignment rack to check bump steer. Theoretically, the steering linkage should travel in the same arc as the control arm when the vehicle is at rest or the tires hanging in the air. I installed a Baer bump steer kit on my car. I was pulling the wheels last night and the car landed smoothly with no shake in the steering. I remember pulling the wheels for the first time without a bump steer kit and felt the steering wheel shudder.

It's common to install a steering damper to reduce the shake in the steering. I've considered it but don't really need it.

 

will this fix it?

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...GM-F-Body.html

once installed, how do i know how to adjust it?

 

That's a nice unit. Mine uses spacers. The Spohn unit uses adjustable locking nuts giving you an infinite adjustment. You still need to find the optimal setting to reduce the bump steer. Sometimes it's just a trial and error setting. The only way to set it exactly is on an alignment rack with someone who knows how to check bump steer.

Watching the video is nice. Listening to Steve present the item does one thing, it lets us know how to pronounce his name . Spohn, rhymes with bone not spoon.

Whenever you change the ride height, steering geometry needs to be readjusted. The bump steer kit sort of does the same thing as LCARB do at the rear. They correct geometry from chassis adjustments.

I wouldn't worry about your caster. Using the factory components, I had mine adjusted to give me as much as possible and it was only 4-5*. I'd like more but my car still drives straight enough that I'm not worried about it. My camber is out to lunch. It was adjusted with the car at rest. When I launch and as the car goes down the track, the front end is extended throwing the camber off. I watched the camber change on the alignment rack as I bounced the car with the shocks set on full soft. It's possible that the bump steer I had at the time was also causing this change. I'm due for another alignment since I've changed things since the last time the car on on a rack. Maybe I can hit up one of my sponsors for an alignment.

 

are you running a rack or the stock style steering box?

i was going to run the rack in my car until i read about the bump steer being out of whack and i changed my mind. i run a manual s-10 box and i have never had the steering wheel move much if any when the car comes back down. front end has been 3ft in the air quite a few times.

edit- i do use limiters now, and im sure that helps a lot.

 

i'm using the s10 manual box, and i'm pretty sure my tie-rods are semi-worn out. i've never replaced them, and the chassis had 210k on it when i got the car. i'm thinking that i'll do a centerlink, inner tie rod ends, and the bump steer kit.

 

just ordered the spohn kit. i'll be sure to post up install and results.

 

I would have checked your suspension parts first IMO. I never had bump steer issues with my car either. But I have newer tie rods, ball joints, and centerlink.

 

i'm going to put all fresh stuff in the car as well, i'm going to hit all bases that i can.

 

ok, got another small dilema, either keep the stock 250k worn out front struts or put fresh replacements on. i can get fresh stock replacement for about $70/pair from work, so it's cheap. but i don't know if i should do that or hold out till i can afford some nice adjustable ones. i don't want to put any 90/10's or anything like that on it cause i want to be able to adjust the rebound and stuff, but i don't have $400 to do that right now either. my struts are worn slap out though, the driver's side extends an inch less than the passenger's side does, so i know that can't be right, so i'm sure the passenger's side strut is just beat to death. i'm just afraid that it may effect the way the car works if i put fresh units on there. i mean the car is a very consistant 1.58-1.59 60' car.

 

I know what your saying by wanting to replace them because of their age and just being so worn out but right now I dont see them as a limiting factor for your 60 fts really, so why change a good thing?? All you know if you put some replacements in there you might lose some on your 60 ft too. I would probably just save until you can get the adjustable ones. On the flip side you could by new factory replacements and pick up some in your 60 ft... Tough call but I would probably just wait and spend the money on what you really want because I have been replacing parts that I wish I had never bought and spending almost twice the amount of money to get the thing done!! lol Good luck either way and keep us updated on progress for the quest for the 11's!!

 

see, i'm glad you see my dilema, and when it comes to the way my car works at the track, i'm very superstitous, which is why non of the steering stuff got changed when i got the alignment done because i was afraid that it'd affect the way the front articulated on a hard launch.

i'll just wait till the spring, maybe do a coil over conversion at the same time.

 

save up for the nice struts and call it a day. in the meantime change out all the worn out stuff in the steering.

 

My car yanked the tires more with worn out struts than my new 90/10s in fact with my ls1 motor I don't pull the tires at all on the launch.

 

Matt, that steering stabilizer from EdQuay fixed my wobbles coming down from a wheelie, also check run out on the tires and all the front end parts..How much toe change are you seeing thru the suspension travel? I have a s-10 box and stock linkage and I do not see the need for a bump steer kit, my toe change is minimal and if it ever becomes a problem..front end limiters will cure that.

KEEP YOUR STOCK STRUTS!! for now at least, or pick up a used set of 90/10`s. When the lakewoods are new, they hold up the front end way too long, once they wear they really work good. I`d feel ok using them on the street if they were not brand new.

 

Matt, some thing is worn out in that front end, or loose. Check the idler arm and steering box for play also. If im not mistaken you removed the front anti roll bar a hundred years ago...did you remove the brackets too, the right side supports the idler arm. Also do you still have the triangle brackets in front of the k member? I have lifted the wheels a few times here and there (lol) and at the most got a little wobble if the wheels were not straight when it came down. It also is going alot faster when it comes down, with that hop of the front tires, and not coming down very hard, it should bearly be noticeable that they were even up.....does the right side come up at all by the way? Looked real good in the pics, and sounds good!

 

RICH! dude how are you?!?! i haven't heard from/seen you in a while man! what's going on?!

i'm pretty sure i have worn parts. i bought new ball joints and inner tie-rods yesterday, the bump steer kit will be here today, and i've got an idler arm/center link on standby at work if i infact need those as well. as far as how level it is, i know that it's still going higher on the driver's side than the passenger's, but the passenger's side is coming off the ground as well now.

i dont' know how much toe i'm getting, this is really the first time i've ever HAD to give the steering stuff any attention so i'm not really sure what i'm doing yet, lol!

 

Matt, send the bump steer kit back!!!! This is the first i've heard of stock front ended 3rd gens actually entertaining the idea of installing one?? My junk has been leaving wheels up for 4 years, lil better when i juiced it and never once had an ounce of shimmy.

BUT, every joint, every link, tie rod, every piece of the front end was brand new 6 years ago so i'm sure that helped immensly, and with yours being overly worn out i'd point my finger at all the connection points up front being worn the heck out and having excessive play, so when the wheels come back down it's getting a gyrating effect going on with all the loose joints up there until it "settles" back into place.

Whenever i have the front end aligned, the only deviation from factory spec is i do have them jack the front of the car up a few inches to mimic how the car travels down the track under acceleration since that's how it spends most of it's time, front end raised up.

Hopefully you can get your money back, adding spendy pieces that are'nt needed, adding weight to a car your fighting to shave weight on LOL, just does'nt make a whole lotta sense when there's dozens of us out here running factory junk too with no issues what so ever.

 

i see what you're saying, but i can't imagine that this thing would be a bad thing. and the way these work, they replace your outer tie rod end and adjusting sleeve, and are actually lighter than the stock stuff...billet aluminum and a 'moly rod end is much lighter than a cast tie rod and steel adjusting sleeve.

i've got them now, and they're PURTY, i don't see any disadvantage to having them, other than my car is slow and it's kind of a "go-real-fast" item...

 

I'm sure there's nothing wrong with having it, just seems like a band aid fix to cover up the real problem. Kind of like putting fix a flat in a tire that keeps going flat, why not just plug it and be done LOL!!!

Dont feel alone, a few weeks ago when they had that Armdrop Live crap out at our track, there was a guy in a 4th gen, parachute and all running 12's!!! and for once in his life, Chicken f..ker Rich Christensen actually had grounds to publicy make fun of the guy Supposedly the dude lost his big motor so they just threw something together to make the event....the parachute mount WAS removable...the crowd and racers also got a huge laugh everytime they'd come up one of his pit beeotchs would do the whole burnout procedure, wave him into the water, clench the fist when he was through the water, waved him to start, gave him the big fight alumni arm throw to wave him out of the burnout, shot the track with the temp gun, shot the tires with the temp gun....it was one of the gayest things i've ever witnessed on the race track. Are these drivers that stupid they cant perform a burnout on their own?.....unfricken believeable was bout all i could muster..

 

ut oh Josh, I have someone put me into the water box everytime and pull me out of it when the smoke gets to an acceptable level. Guess I'm one of those guys.....now to get me a parachute

 

i dont like seeing people using a "crew" either. well, unless its a fast car.... at least in the 8's. also dont like seeing people open their door and watch their tire while doing a burnout. its just not needed. if you really need to, do your routine with someone watching and have them wave you out when its time.... after that you shouldnt need any help. just count or something.
if everyone has a crew lining them up on a tnt night, you will be sitting in staging lanes the whole time.

 

I don't think me having one person up there waving me through the box takes any longer than a normal person doing a staging routine. The guys that always get me at the track are the ones who dry hop after or have to put it in neutral and "blow it out" for another 30 seconds after their burnout. Sometimes if the prep is fine I just do a 3rd gear burnout and when the rpms get pulled down a bit I roll out, but somedays I need more or less burnout to get 100% traction. Wish I had a temp gauge so I could start logging track temp vs slick temp to get a better idea.

 

I will agree with Greasemonkey's suggestion of leaving the old struts and going to a steering damper.

The tires are wobbling when touching back down and trying to catch up speed with the ground.

New struts would help the wobble, but would hold up the nose too long.

Bump steer kit won't help wobble, but it will help if the wobble is causing the car to pull in the lane side to side.

Dean

ps- in other words, you can't prevent the wobble, you just need to eliminate its feel to the driver controls. The wobble is the tires distroting and causing vibration into the steering linkage.

 

Come on Steve......man, hike up that skirt and become a driver

Is'nt much to know other than:
Ambient temperature/sun exposure...this will affect how hot the track is/how well the track retains the heat. Hot race tracks need less burnout, since they get greasey, cooler race tracks can handle a bit more burnout without ill effect, but too much like so many kids too are these huge john force burnout's, for what, many of us still aint figure it out...big plumes of smoke is a waste of time, fuel, tire, engine wear..etc...

Tire compound, 5,6,7.....5 compound if you actually see smoke, you did too big of a burnout-seriously, they work best just cleaned/hazed. 7 compound is a bit harder and needs a medium burnout, enough that you as a driver can turn your neck to look in the mirros hanging off your door/s (depending on which way the wind is blowing) to see if you have smoke or not. 6 is in between

Watch wind direction, that will tell you which way smoke will blow, look in the mirror and use the gut feeling afforded you by means of the man card, burnout's are all relatively short in time duration...you should have "the feel" for it by now, coupled with mirrors.

Not taking a personal shot at ya cuz you manned up and admitted your Nancy ways, that's the first step in getting your Sac back!!! But we all joke about who is the bigger tool, the guy that cant manage his own burnout, or the dork that thinks he big stuff standing all alone next to the water box and waving his arms like he's riding a rabbid bull in a rodeo when he thinks the driver should pull out...and for the record, i'm yet to see any "spotter" that knows WTF they're doing, i guess they wait for a burnout contest plume of smoke and think, ahhhh, that's looks cool, and starts waving frantically "go driver go driver, get'on outta there, dis chit be look'n kool yo" and the geeks that top it off, are the ones that then kneel down just in front of the water box and watch the car leave, then stand up shaking their head like they have a phocking clue as to what they were even looking at LMFAO!!!!!!!!

anybody seen these types before??????

 

to put a couple of things to rest, the front steering is getting an over-haul. i'm putting the bump steer kit on, wether josh likes it or not, this will replace the outter tie-rods and adjusting sleeve. i also have new inner tie-rods to put on, as well as lower ball joints. i'll put an idler arm and center link on if it appears those have gone past their prime, which they likely will have with the kind of mileage that was on the chassis when i got it. the struts will remain till i can afford adjustables, not gonna waste my time/money on a set of junk lakewood 90/10's. i want something that can be 100% adjustable so i can do whatever i want with it.

josh, i will tell ya, you just described my little brother in a nut shell with your last paragraph/rant though, lol. can't say i'm not embarassed by him, and i'm very glad he's running his own car now instead of being down in the burnout box with me.

 

awe man josh....

I'll leave the skirt hiked down. I am the first to admit I'm a non-driving fool, if I'm just doing a motor run it isn't a big deal to me, but on spray I like having someone there, looking for leaks, drips, proper burnout, etc. Besides with the cage, the high rise Z28 and my limo tint in the rear, I'm not really seeing smoke too easily. I'm surprised you can even see out of your mirrors, I start the burnout the whole car shakes everything and it's all a blur. Much easier to just worry about shifting 2 to 3 and rolling out and getting lined up perfect, having another person check that the idiot in front of me didn't leak onto the track and so on. I've had enough wheel up trips that shoot me towards the wall immediately because the guy in front of me dumps a bunch of condensation out his dumps or coolant overflow tank/whatever.

PS I rented cordova on halloween again for 8 hours if you're interested let me know.

 

having a 3rd person put your 12 second iroc into the groove...priceless

 

haha jesse i WISH 12 seconds. It's a z28 darnit, hit me up sometime I got a question for you.

 

keep ur sh*t on AIM then, i'm off some emo sh*t obviously,