I wouldn't say it's safe to do them with the heads on, yes it is quite possible to get metal shavings into the head. I never said it was safe, I simply stated it is possible to do it with that kit. The other flanged style studs you typically see on heads with guide plates require that the stud boss be shaved down, which means the head needs to go to the machine shop, hence be off the engine. that is why you can use that kit, the bosses dont' have to be trimmed. You CAN NOT run guide plates with those MR Gasket ones. Yes you still have to tap the head with the MR Gasket set.

The way I would do it is have a shop vac running and being held right next to the drill side to suck up any shavings immediately before they get where they aren't supposed to be.

LOL @ 600 seat pressure. That is like solid roller valve open numbers. Seat pressure on my afr 180's is 130lbs and open (.600 lift) is around 350bs IIRC, I'd have to look at the paperwork from when I had the valves in my heads done, they spec'd the springs for me.

 

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oh my...the notions in this thread are making me cringe....

take the dang heads off and have them drilled/tapped for screw in studs...do this part half-way and you will end up with some serious engine damage.

 

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Try buyin some .015" or .030" shims and shimming the springs install height up alittle bit more. This will give you more seat pressure. Another 10-15lbs will do which should be around .030-.045" worth of shim depending on spring rate. What lift are those springs good for? If .600, shimming .030" will give you .570" lift. Should give you enough for that cam with 1.5 rockers. If not, try a different spring and return those Alex ones. I still like around 150lbs seat pressure with XE rollers

Do you have screw in rocker studs with those heads?

 

so, what you're saying is: had you measured first like we said to, you wouldn't have had to purchase "Alex's backyard fix", right?

 

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I could understand that mentality if we were giving you bad advice, but we're not in this case. Everyone is consistent for the most part in this thread too. It needs screw in studs with those types of spring pressure.

 

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Ok.good luck.

 

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The springs themselves are good to .700 lift? Or are you saying you have .700 lift between retainer to guide clearance now? Whats the recommended install height on the Alex springs? I think vortecs are in the 1.7-1.8" range which TYPICALLY gives you up to .600, maybe .650 with the right spring at 1.8". Most springs coil bind out at 1.1-1.2" but it really depends.

Its not necessarily the lift that pushes studs....its the pressure of the spring. They are pressed in with pressure, so to remove them you need to push pressure in the other direction

You can have a .600" spring with 360lbs open pressure or 1000 lbs of pressure.... huge difference.

 

at all this and he should just post that he is going to do whatever he decided already and not ask our opinions

 

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I've replied to your thread and questions SEVERAL times, pointing out advice from years and years of racing. Sorry you don't like what I had to say and are doing things backwards. I've realized you can do them once right or several times wrong and spend more money. Sorry for ruining the internet and if you think I'm being "mean" online you really wouldn't want to see me in person, it only gets way worse. I guess at 17 when I had to save an extra month to get into the machine shop for screw in studs that would have been a better idea then pulling out several push in ones, because "I didn't have the money at the time" either. You've been given advice at least 15 times that I can count and dismissed it immediately. So if anyone is ruining the internet, hop into the mirror and take a look. I get a few PM's a week looking for help and I help them all, they do what I say then respond back with improvements. Guess I'll quit posting so the young bucks can give it a shot with what they read in a magazine.

 

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IT'S NOT THE LIFT THAT PULLS THE STUDS OUT! IT'S SPRING PRESSURE!!!!

find me 3 people (on the interwebz or otherwise) that was DUMB enough to put that big of a cam/that high pressure of springs on press in studs.

you're the one saying you don't have the money to do this or that, yet you're picking parts that REQUIRE the things we say for LONGEVITY'S sake.

steve is sarcastic (part of being a wise guy probably), but he's extremely knowledgable and helpful, until folks start being dumb, then he unleashes the sarcasm.

every last question you've asked, and we've answered, you've dismissed the answers and said "well i'll do it this way instead". unless it's been Justin that's said it. get off the whole "i'm 17" thing and get with the program. this stuff, if not done right, will cost you a CRAP ton of money. save up another week or two and get things done the right way. you running stock rockers still too?

i can remember living on $100-150 a week, and having to pay rent too. i worked multiple jobs and did side work to be able to afford stuff to go racing with, so don't think i "don't know what it's like".

 

I think we're seeing a primer on "how to break in the 11's".

 

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ok, it went from you have press in studs, to "possibly" having shoulderless studs, to absolutely having shoulderless studs...so what is it?

 

I had to wait to check when i got home. I got home and checked and they threaded out a little. So shoulderless.

 

good to hear. maybe it'll stay together longer than one pass down the 1320.

 

I'll let you know.

 

You got any pics of how the alex's backyard special springs/retainers work to actually give you more retainer to guide clearance? I am considering them myself, just wondering how it works.

 

I do have pics, i will upload them for you tomorrow! I only have the first 8 installed, as its all i had time to do today. But basically the difference is in the retainer, they have just grinded down the retainer so that it wont hit.

I was checking the clearance as i rotated the cam and my guides have been machined down, but with the original retainers i had on there i had .175 clearance. Then with the alex's parts retainers i had .268 as clearance. So they do increase it almost by a full .100 which would be on stock vortecs raising the max lift from .450 to .550 like they said.

The seat pressure isnt too bad either, i am running a big cam(alot of guys here think its too big, but only time will tell) so the seat pressure helps, im sure they will be perfect for what ever cam you are running.

Also, they were great to deal with, as soon as i ordered them, alex emailed me 6 minutes later asking me if i was sure i ordered the right parts, and if i was he'd ship them out the next morning.

I'll post some pictures tomorrow to help you out even more, i hope that helped!

 

So he's just grinding down the bottom of the retainers? Interesting...

 

That, and the locks that he includes are different as well, ill post a picture tomorrow that shows more accurately what the difference between his locks and others are.

 

This is a quote i found at nastyz28. If you search the forums there are alot of guys saying this same thing, i can post more if you'd like.

"The rocker studs are in there very tight compared to the old days and they generally will not move . My first set of Vortecs are still driving around town in a buddys car with .530 lift and 120 pounds on the seat with zero movement. Keepers with a raised grove for more clearance MAY interfere with the self aligning rockers most guys use with Vortec heads so Im not keen on them , cutting the guides solves that problem anyway. -Doug"

Granted i do have shoulderless studs, i just wanted to let you know that there are other "DUMB" people out there i guess

 

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...hp?f=52&t=2746

Well, to be honest its your call, but i've seen a few places say over 300lbs open pressures, lift over .475 and 6000 rpm and higher, you should have screw in studs.

Some guys claim to see stock spring pressures pull studs out! So its risky, especially with that cam.

But if you have the screw in studs now, thats a good thing. SHould be set to go.

 

Yeah i have the shoulderless now.

But yeah i read everywhere too that anything over .475 lift and around 300 seat will pull the studs. But i hadnt ever heard of anyone saying that theirs had pulled out of their vortec heads, and alot of guys are doing it with pin in. It's not my problem anymore so it doesnt really matter to me! I just was curious to see if anyone was running a high seat pressure and press in vortec heads, and there are a few on nastyz28. They could just be the lucky ones though!

 

Just to update this... I thought it was funny. Just pulled the motor to go through the gaskets for the first time since 2011. I have made 650+ passes. I'm guessing roughly 600 of those have been in the 11's. So I would say the 1 pass goal you set for me was met.


lol in all seriousness. I was very young when this thread was first made, I find it amusing to see some of the things I was saying. Thanks for all of the help from everyone and dealing with some of my redundant and dumb questions.


I have some more updates that are coming on my car this winter I will keep everyone posted!

 

Weve all come along way since when we first joined here greg! you prompted me to go through some of my old threads as well after you planted the idea in my head after work