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Organized Drag Racing and AutocrossDrag racing and autocross discussions and questions. Techniques, tips, suggestions, and "what will I run?" questions.
even get to work with Chevrolet once a while...but this is now my time.
Bought a 1991 Z28 L98/700R4 Hardtop for $450 bucks and yes it needs some work - along with some parts and elbow grease, but I thought it would be fun to have the support of some true 3rd-Gen lovers.
it will be a process because I will not just load it with a 250-shot of nitrous and pop the L98, but rather really look into the idea of weight, cost-effective performance and traction and gears....all should be interesting.
So come along, have some fun..and if you're driving a 3rd-gen the chances are good you remember Cars Illustrated Magazine and will help spread the word on this great idea of getting MORE people out and on the track.
Pretty cool. Dont know where ppl find cars that cheap tho
I was able to get 12.99's in my L98 with just bolt ons and weight reduction with slicks/skinnies.
Biggest gains in performance come from stall speed 2800-3000, 3.23-3.42 gear, and a short runner intake like a stealth ram, single plane efi, or similar.
Stock tpi wont cut it and aftermarket parts are too hard to find anymore and expensive
Got REALLY lucky on the purchase price...does have a HUGE hole where the nit-wit who had it before the person I bought it from...CUT the rear pan out to try and replace the pump/sender.
So a tank/sender/pump will be the first order of business and then gears and stall....maybe a little spray, wink-wink.
I think with the introduction of the new Z28 (and to come) has influenced ppl to want/have a camaro again. Not everyone can buy an new camaro so they shop a cheaper market, hence is why they are becoming more popular. I think in a few more years, prices will go up and continue to.
12.99 out of an L98... that shouldn't be too hard if it's in Ok shape. Really the right converter (something in the 3000-3600stall range, yea, I tend to go a bit more aggressive than most there), some 26" tall slicks, cut the exhaust off at before the converter(s) or install headers and tuning should get you there if everything else is OK, or very close to it.
Then scratch my previous statement.
Your going to have to at least ( & I mean bare minimum ) port the intake runners, see if you can scrounge up a bigger throttle plate ( some call it a throttle body), get the e-prom programed, some headers, gut the cat, a single high flow 3" round or bullet muffler, a shift kit for the trany & a small fuel cell. Looks like the gas tank is gone, so don't waste time on the hole ( thin aluminum sheet & pop rivets, seal with rtv.)
Get rid of the interior (all of it) a good old drag seat on driver's side & belt.
12.99 should be a walk in the park with the L98. Stock as you know they already made 245 HP and was limited by the tuned port intake.
Do you want to keep the TPI?
I like carbs better. I would go with an edelbrock RPM intake (or one of the clones), 650 cfm carb, HEI dist.
Cam change.. Go up to about a 220/230 @.050 cam
Change valve springs to handle your lift. Howards makes some real good cheap 1.25" springs
Long tube headers.
3" or 3.5" single or 2.5" dual exhaust
2800-3400 stall converter
26 x 10.5" slicks
Box your LCA's with some 1/8th plate steel
Weld in SFC
Try to find a good deal on a used aftermarket torque arm
Remove the heavy carpet in the car, and anything else that you can live without
3.73 to 4.10 gears
And of course your...
4cly front springs - Free (maybe) in any yard, weight transfer
Really worn out front struts - Easy and free in any yard, weight transfer
Remove sway bar - Easy and free
You need to ditch tpi. Shorter runner intake is 3-4 tenths easily on these cars.
Stall exhaust slicks will do mid high 13's. Intake swap lower 13's. Thats a full weight car minus ac and smog. It just takes alittle more work/bolt ons to optimize last few tenths to get 12's
Look on nearby craigslist and facebook ads. I wound up with a complete NOS plate kit with a couple bottles for $200. Some spray would almost make your goal too easy.
Get a stock replacement hei distrbuter with wires on eBay for around $100.00 (no computer limits will be one of the biggest helps, & a good tune on the carb.��).
Yea lookin at those pics that hole is a huge over kill. When I did mine on a z28 I owned I only had to cut a hole maybe 8''x8'' in the middle idk why he cut it so far over toward the driver side.
Just seal it up with some aluminum paint and done lol
I cut the floor on mine... I was tired of waiting and wanted to get it running...
Project car, V6, 5 speed RS... Carb'ed 355 swap. I had the rear end out twice already before firing engine up.. I went to fire engine and wasn't getting any fuel to my mech. pump on engine.. The stock elec. pump wouldn't let fuel flow through it.
So I cut the trunk floor to get to tank and remove elec. pump fast as I didn't want to drop the rear end yet again.
I totally agree about cutting a nice hole so a guy can get to and service the f/p. I know on old military vehicles, there would already be a nice hole/cover from the factory, just to make it easy to service.
There have been some nice examples done/shown here how to do/how they did it.
Id want a good seal back there for exhaust fumes.
Well, I hope that you learned ( since you had the rear end out twice & never thought to check the f/p), so the next time. ... you'll check the hard to get to items, while there exposed.☺
Or do like I'm going to & cut up a perfectly good, solid, low mileage survivor (20,774.6 miles, to exact ).
After talking to Jason the second owner I got more of the story.
He bought it from the original owner and it was the daily driver for the wife.
Got board, made son happy....not knowing he was a tweaker.
Tweaker son runs it hard and then has to replace the pump and in true tweaker fashion cut the hole in the trunk and never fixed the car.
Parents take car back, see what he has done and decide to cut bait.
Sell the car to Jason (my friend) and he sits on it until get gets wind of myself and the 12.99 challenge.
Sold it to me for what he bought it for a few years ago and boom, I gotta cool car.
Found a donor car for the truck and other parts (tank and straps) but gotta see what I can find out there for as cheap as I can.
$1299 is NOT a ton of money to make this work so I've gotta be smart.
CarGuyDennis, I wouldn't say to not get the parts from the donor (but), I would NOT install the factory tank... you need to cut weight. A small 5 gal. Tank will get it down the track with no problems & it weighs nothing.
If you want to make your goals, the lighter it is the easier it'll be. Unless your goals include a full factory weight car, then it makes sense.
CarGuyDennis, I wouldn't say to not get the parts from the donor (but), I would NOT install the factory tank... you need to cut weight. A small 5 gal. Tank will get it down the track with no problems & it weighs nothing.
If you want to make your goals, the lighter it is the easier it'll be. Unless your goals include a full factory weight car, then it makes sense.
Going to try and find/replace the factory tank/unit with just that hope - want to hit the 12.99 in a full street legal drivable/anywhere car. Just like in the dirt late model (my other fun ride) I'll only fill run to run with 2/3 gallons to keep weight down, but yes your idea is totally sound and thanks.
Well, I hope that you learned ( since you had the rear end out twice & never thought to check the f/p), so the next time. ... you'll check the hard to get to items, while there exposed.☺
Or do like I'm going to & cut up a perfectly good, solid, low mileage survivor (20,774.6 miles, to exact ).
Live and learn I guess. At the time (12 years ago) I looked for info on if 'manual fuel pump will pull fuel through stock in tank pump' and the results from searching on this site and others said.... Yes it will.
So I didn't figure I needed to check the fuel pump when I had the rear end out... I was not going to use it. It didn't matter if it worked or not, I was running a mech. pump on engine...
Turned out atleast in my case the mech. pump will NOT pull fuel through an in tank elec.
So out came the tape measure, square, masking tape and 3" air cut off tool.
LOL, I hear ya. .. figured that my post might get some backlash. I'm cutting my car, but for different reasons. I've owned a couple of these over the years & I know all about pulling things out multiple times lol, I had a clutch issue in one TA ( pulled the trany 4 times in 6 day's ), talk about a nightmare! But, we do what we have to.
Mine was one of the "yes" crowd ( as far as the fuel pump questions ☺).
You're way over complicating this. With a good driver it's not that hard or impressive.
I've run a 13.5 in my Formula 350 with a cat back, de-screening the MAF, messing with fuel pressure and timing (though I found that it ran the same times from 3*-7*). If you get a 3400# car to run a 13.5, and then hit it with a 150hp shot that becomes an instant 11.7 or so.
That near stock L98 car will likely be pretty close to your 12.99 goal just by putting a set of headman long tube headers on it (skip the rest of the exhaust if your goal is to just go fast) and some 26" tall slicks. Stuff like converter, gears... will all make it easier.
I won't get into what I've run with a near stock LB9 (305tpi) + T5 car last fall, but I'm pretty sure I've dropped
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; Aug 18, 2015 at 01:48 AM.
... You're way over complicating this. With a good driver it's not that hard or impressive.
I've run a 13.5 in my Formula 350 with a cat back, de-screening the MAF, messing with fuel pressure and timing (though I found that it ran the same times from 3*-7*). If you get a 3400# car to run a 13.5, and then hit it with a 150hp shot that becomes an instant 11.7 or so.
That near stock L98 car will likely be pretty close to your 12.99 goal just by putting a set of headman long tube headers on it (skip the rest of the exhaust if your goal is to just go fast) and some 26" tall slicks. Stuff like converter, gears... will all make it easier.
I won't get into what I've run with a near stock LB9 (305tpi) + T5 car last fall, but I'm pretty sure I've dropped less than $1000 in parts and a ton of my own labor in it this summer and I plan to go MUCH faster than your goal, assuming the clutch holds and I don't break something.
Last edited by 83 Crossfire TA; Aug 18, 2015 at 01:50 AM.
Reason: this thing keeps cropping part of my last paragraph, try number 5
Wow, 4 times pulling a trans in 6 days! You are right, that is a nightmare. But hey it could have been worse, it could have been a heavy azz 700R4 lol.
Yeah we do what we have to do I guess.
So, if I may ask.... Why are you cutting yours up?
Relocating the rear frame rails, LCA's & shortening the watts link (that also means, relocation of all associated mounts, like spring purches, shocks, etc.), as well as fuel tank. So the 20x13's will fit better & I'll only have to "flare" the quarter panels 1.5-2".
Cutting out the back seat buckets (bowls in floor pan ), widening trans tunnel (both at firewall & behind front seats ), the engine & trans are being moved back (figure 6-8") for weight distribution (front section of trans tunnel )& making way for exhaust, as well as new X member's .
Loving all this feedback and support - But news for today..it's a party and Simple Green, CI1299 the Cars Illustrated 12.99 Challenge 1991 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 and myself are all invited...will be great to give the car it's first bath in a LONG time - images to follow.
Woke me up early today just thinking about how much I'll need to spend on everything from a new serpentine belt, fluids and filters to just tune-up items...my budget of $1,299 is gonna shrink REALLY fast.
Check the parts store's, some are offering oil change package for pretty good price. If you're not worried about what kind of oil, go to Wal-Mart or Sam's club & get the cheapest they have.
But, it definitely adds up quickly!
Can't wait for the pictures & have fun ��
Need a donor car to cut out a chunk of sheet-metal.
Need to hope the same car has a tank we can scavenge.
Need to find out what a pump/line cluster costs new...or maybe used with a new pump and use used line cluster.
If I get lucky - someone to trade me some stock wheels for those horrible Centerlines.
Look into costs of tune up parts and a serpentine belt - Mikes got this one, and this one if fair. Just about everyone knows someone in the auto repair business and could get a deal on parts instead of walking blindly into a AutoZone and paying triple.
Thats about it for this weekend - if I get the parts for the fuel system I'm a winner, if I get the list all satisfied I'll be very happy.
$38.49 Distributor Cap/Rotor - Accel 8122R
$63.92/$7.99 x 8 Plugs – NGK 7401
$72.99 Spark Plug Wires - Accel 4065
$16.99 Fuel Filter – Fram G3727DP
$47.99 Air Filter – K&N 33-2008-1
$3.29 PCV Valve – Standard Motor Products V188
$54.49 Coil – Accel 140011
$27.99 O2 Sensor - Standard Motor Products SG5
$37.99 Oil - Royal Purple HMX - 11748
$14.99 Oil Filter – Royal Purple 10-454
$36.99 Serpentine Belt - Gates K060945
$72.99 Belt Tensioner – Gates 38118
I'll do the math for everyone...it's $490 BUCKS!
Now I have not looked into the break at the wholesale level.
Like I said I think it's fair and within the rules to get that price.
We all know someone in the biz that can get a good price on tune-up parts.
So if I was to buy these at the retail price...
$450 for the Z28
$490 for the Tune-Up parts
...that leaves me with $359 dollars - yikes.
Time to look into better pricing
What REALLY needs to be replaced
And how far can $1,299 really go...like I said I knew this would be tough.
cool budget racing. i like it.
have you tried rockauto.com for parts? they're pretty cheap.
the parts store chains are getting crazy on prices. the autozone here sells they're brand transmission fluid for $4.99 a qt. the dollar store sells peak fluid for $3.00 a qt. go figure?
autozone is running some special right now. spend $100 on-line shopping & get a $35 gift card. careful shopping might go a long way?
You need to look at good cheap parts. Not some of the high end stuff you list there.
Std. AC delco, NGK V power, or Autolite copper plugs at around $2 each vs. your $8 each. They will work just as good, make just the same power, etc.. Just won't last 100K miles which is fine.
That saves you $48
Autozone duralast $10 fuel filter
$4-$5 AC delco, Purolator, stp, etc oil filter vs. the $15 one.
Go junk yard-ing, and craigslist-ing for used parts like Serpentine Belt and Belt Tensioner.. Get both of those used for under $20
On a lot of this, you got to start looking at used parts/prices.
Many years ago our local drag strip had a class sort of like this. It was $1500 and under built cars. You had to show proof of money spent and class had a $1500 claimer rule where any top 5 finishers could buy the winner's car for $1500.
Me and a buddy did it. Ran 12.30's and spent $1100 on our car. Everything came from the pull a part/ u pull it junkyards. We spent 3 weekends searching the junkyards over and found old double hump heads for $25 each, 350 running engine for $75, Transmission for $50. We even pulled out spark plugs looking for good ones at 25 cents each lol.
We bought a V8 chevy monza for $200 w/o engine or trans out of the local paper.
The only things we bought new was a cam kit, gaskets, oil and oil/fuel filters.
Knight_ryder327 , is absolutely right on point there!
I already mentioned, that you can get a BRAND NEW DISTRIBUTOR WITH CAP, ROTOR & WIRES for $100 online ( eBay, Racing Junk, etc..) you really need to shop around & good used parts are available & cheap!
Your goal is achievable. .. just shop like a single mom with 4 kids ya gotta feed + yourself!
Got my hands on not only the correct 3rd-Gen gas tank...
...and the scrap/donor sheetmetal
Mike also found a the fuel block....
But it did not come free - all total $55 bucks and a breakfast burrito. I got lucky on the tank and found a guy out near PIR with more junked 3rd Gens than one guy should have in his yard, told him the story of what I was trying to do and he was sympathetic to my lack of budget.
Mike found the fuel block/filter/sending unit off CL for $20 bucks - again, somebody who "was" going to fix their IROC and never did, but still had a few parts laying around...and with a little smart shopping we should have the Z28 up and running soon - don't have a lot of time to work on the car until next Friday, so I'm going to continue to shop for good deals and see if I can continue to find them...
Yes, you guys are right - there is cheaper out there.
I was just looking at things I need and where I sit.
Already on the hunt.
I'll also be looking at more yards so thanks for your input and support.
12.99 here I come!
Last edited by CarGuyDennis; Aug 21, 2015 at 05:52 PM.
Reason: Reloading images
