Kingtal0n

Engine Buildup. High performance, Street.
Today’s project: Small block Chevy 355 with a Blower
Target TQ/HP goal: 520TQ/500HP (nice and rounded)
Target Mile per Gallon Goal: 21 MPG (nice and… err... nice)
Target Terrain: Mainly Street, “stoplight racing”, strong 0-60, very strong 0-140 MPH, occasional ¼ at the track.
Target Drivability goal: Mild idle quality, no rough stuff, powerful off the line TQ, excellent response and driving quality, good brakes (heh), and yes we want economy.
Engine block: 1976 (Pre-86) block. .030 Over (355 CID)
Had machine shop Bore, Hone, Clean, Acid Wash, Align BORE and align HONE, then new freeze plugs/cam bearings, and finally, all threads chased and cleaned.

Rotating assembly:
Factory Forged Crankshaft (or aftermarket Forging, 4340 Steel is ideal, Eagle is affordable and recommended.) ours was .010/.010 on the journals to make sure all was perfectly round. Even aftermarket cranks can be egg-shaped or worse, a good 10/10 is recommended to keep things perfect. It is believed that going more than 10/10 is bad on any forced induction motor, I have found this to be incorrect. There is plenty of material left to go 50/50 or further, depending on application. It’s not recommended however, but it’s been done.

TRW Flat tops with D-Cup valve relief (forced induction type) 9.8:1 comp with 68CC head, 8.6:1 comp with 76CC head, and 9:1 comp with 72CC head.

Eagle Forged 4340 5.7” H-Beam rods. 650 Grams each (a little heavy), minor block grinding needed to fit. Used air-grinder to make things simple. Strong, and affordable.

Rings were File fit Federal Moguls, each top and mid rings filed to .28-.30 gap. (Good for forced induction/nitrous. If forced induction/nitrous isn’t to be used, a gap of .25~ is sufficient for the top and .23~ for the bottom.)
Bearing were Clevite 77’s, 10/10 of course to fit journals. A slightly thicker bearing (10/10) is better because there is more bearing to wear before the journals begin to fatigue.

We used ARP bolts on the entire engine, and Studs instead of bolts wherever possible. The crankshaft main caps were no exception. Four-bolt Mains, ARP Studs, with Windage tray provisions. A moroso windage tray was used, but needed to be modified (cut) to fit the stock Oil pan we used. It would hit the rods (H-beams are so big!) so we also… modified… (Ok, we banged it up), to fit…








Total cost of engine so far:
Block ($150 + machine shop labor ($200) = $350 (machine shop had block)
Crank (eagle) = $650 (summit)
Rods (eagle) = $400 (summit)
Pistons (trw) = $320 (summit)
Rings (FM) = $110 (summit)
Bearings (clevite) = $35 (Murray’s)
Studs (Arp) = $65 (summit)
Oil pan (stock) = $100 new (summit)
Oil pump (FM) = $65 with pickup *(summit)
Windage tray (moroso) = $30 (Murray’s)
Shipping for products = $65

Total for Bottom end: $2190

So now we have ourselves a strong, forged, abusable bottom end. Remember, the less we abuse it now, the longer it will last. This engine combo should be good for about 250,000 miles if treated properly, likely more if well maintained. This, in a street environment, is considerable. Our camshaft however, will be flat tappet, thus will likely need replacing sometime around 100K miles, this being the nature of high-life tappet camshafts. Ill explain later….

Now for the most important part, our horsepower making combo, and the reasons behind the economy / power selection.

Comp cams Custom grind
Camshaft: Advertised duration: (or “seat to seat”) 274/286. Advertised Lift: .323/.333, 114 Lobe separation Angle, 5* of ground in advance (109 Lobe centerline)
.050 - .050 duration: 219/228, lift after 1.5 rockers: .484/.500
Power band: 1500-5500 Rpms Vacuum: 15” @ 600 RPMS, 18” @ 800 Rpms
We chose this cam for several reasons… the obvious ones being streetability and idle vacuum/quality. Unobvious reasons? Economy, blower friendly, throttle response. Okay maybe those WERE obvious, no need to rub it in my face. The wide 114 LCA give us boost trapping ability, as well as the ability to trap the most fuel during a highway cruise. The low .050-.050 duration means we get the most of our torque friendly blower, and it also means we get to use our power brakes! Yay! And if you don’t get that, you have never drove a car with a Chevy 350 that had more than 240* of .050-.050 duration on the street.

Now let’s get down to business. No one probably told you this but it’s the heads/cam/intake that makes power. They did? Oh well, but its true. All the forged bottom end parts in the world won’t make your Chevy go any faster. In fact, those 650 gram eagle H-beams only slow it down, they are so big and heavy! But that’s ok, because volumetric efficiency is on our side.

For heads, there are several affordable choices. Our choice was AFR’s 190CC Street heads. A very important thing to realize in a head that will see boost in, is the ability to flow exhaust out. And AFR’s 190CC street heads do that considerably well. Other choices would be brodix track 1’s, Dart 200CC, or even Edelbrocks Performer RPM series. Porting? Unnecessary, but in your best interest if you run at the track a lot. Porting will improve your numbers, but will hurt your street drivability. Things that can’t hurt on the street: 3-angle “street” valve job, Blending of bowl area, exhaust porting, gasket matching (cutting your intake/head gasket ports to the EXACT size of the actual port) and so on… find a reputable machine shop and they can lead you in the right direction.

Head gasket is a Fel-pro steel ringed gasket
Head Studs are ARP and properly torqued down

Now, we have heads and a Cam. What about the intake? Oh yeah, our blower COMES with an intake! How nice! Say, does that make the blower the plenum? Hmm…
Our blower is a Weiand 177 Satin-finish Roots’ style blower.

Total Cost so far:
Camshaft (comp) = $212
Heads (AFR 190) = $1395
Blower (Weiand 177, summit) = $1850
Gaskets / materials (thread sealer, loctite, oil, gaskets etc) = $150
Shipping = $65
Total engine cost so far: priceless (just kidding) $3672 + 2190 = $5862
So let’s say $6000 so far invested into our engine. This is everything bought new, in the box, never touched. You can bring this number down quickly by using used parts and rebuilt parts, but we chose to use everything new simply for longevity reasons.
You can now, if you want to, slap a carburetor on this blower (a 750 vacuum secondary would be nice) and go go go. You would make about 500 horsepower/ 500 Ft. Lbs. yes. But economy? You would get maybe, in a non-overdrive car with a decent gear (3.23-3.42) and proper vacuum advance timing maybe 15-17 MPG. Not bad eh? But where do we come up with the 21 MPG? And what about the extra throttle response / driveability/ street friendly ness? I’m about to show you the wonders of DFI.

Holley Performance sells a complete Kit called the “Commander 950 Throttle Body Fuel injection kit” It comes with everything you need (almost… sigh*) to throw a fuel injection setup on top of your blower. Outstanding throttle response, extra horsepower, and tons more fuel economy and cruiseability can be achieved using this fuel injection setup. You even are required to initially program it using your laptop computer. You control the fuel, and the spark… even under boost you can set the parameters for how much fuel you want to add. I don’t work for Holley, but even if I did, I would still say about the same things I'm saying now. And the price? Ha! That’s the best part. It’s the cheapest fuel injection kit I’ve yet to see, and the easiest to use!




Complete Kit: $1395
Just plug it all up and into your laptop, download a few of the base fuel maps from Holley’s site, and start tuning to your engine’s desire. No more jet changes, no more worry about extra fuel under boost, no more timing light issues, no more detonation concerns, no more blown power valves (thanks Holley!) you can even save different profiles (like one for 87 Octane and one for 93 octane… and even one for 113 octane if you want!) its like a street racers dream come true. Ah... the powers of DFI. And then you can be like “The fast and the furious” with your laptop computer controlling your fuel flow… ah but it works!
Now we have the efficiency of DFI, the power and durability of an all forged/blown Chevy 355, what now? Well now we want MORE ECONOMY and MORE POWER so we look closer at our drive train. What’s this? A TH350 tranny? That has to go. And what else? A 3.73 geared 10 bolt? We will see, yes we will see.
To get the most bangs for our buck (literally) we want overdrive. Yes this means switching to the weaker and not-so-loved 700R4 (or 200R4) but it also means gobs less money spent at the gas stations… We want a BUILT and EFFICIENT transmission, not a stock one. Since our engine makes power RIGHT off idle, stall speeds can be kept very conservative. Since our engine makes GOBS of low end torque, we need a healthy “safe” gear to back it up. Expect to spend about $1300 on a healthy “built to the max” 700R4, and about $650 on a ACT/Yank/vigilante LOCKUP (important)9.5” torque converter. Why lockup and why 9.5”? Well first off LOCKUP will improve your highway MPG considerably, and it will also keep the converter cooler. Why 9.5”? well its been tested and re-tested, but a 9.5” Converter has MUCH higher efficiency at multiplying torque than any 10” or 12” converter, and not to mention LIGHTWEIGHT (can we say “rotating mass is bad”?) the 9.5” just blows away all other converter, and on top of that the lockup “plate” acts as an anti-balloon shield against all that tire shredding torque. You can even spray nitrous and the converter will be the last thing left after everything else went boom. Maybe. But anyways, long story short, 700R4 + 9.5”low stall (2400/2800) converter + lockup = fuel economy! Yes! 21 MPG + can be achieved with this plus the DFI above! Gearing? We don’t need 3.73s to get this baby moving! 3.42’s are the max I would recommend. 3.23s are probably the mainstream for this combo, but for plain street nothing beats a nice set of 3.42’s with that ultra low first gear in the 700R4 (3.06:1) its like having a TH350 with 4.11 in the rear! Yes you will tear your tires off the rim! Yes it will be fun! Yes you are still getting good fuel economy doing it! Haha!

Remember this is a street car, when running a 700R4 slicks are never recommended, and Transbrakes are OUT of the question! Don’t ask! No way! If slicks are not used (AKA you don’t hook worth a **** till 3rd gear) and a T-brake is NOT used, there’s no reason you can’t beat on your car consistently over the next 10 years without so much as a tranny oil change. Now, start hooking up at the track? Things change. Parts go flying. A 700R4’s maximum capacity for horsepower/torque, no matter WHAT ANYONE SAYS, built to the absolute MAX, no holds bar, Sun-Shell or no sun-shell, is roughly 600 Horsepower and 600 Ft. Lbs of torque. Rear end life? Same as above, this is not a ¼ mile setup, it is a street setup. No 10-bolt rear end will stand up to T-brakes and slicks very long. Even the
Rough and rare 9-bolt in top form can only take so many T-brakes. Parts WILL fly.

Now we will discuss tuning issues and longevity issues with our setup.
Our blower comes with a 5-6 PSI pulley, which is fine and dandy for our engine to start with. But remember you can crank up the boost… and the horsepower. The maximum we recommend for street is 10 PSI. Any more than 10 PSI of boost, and fuel octane rating / timing advance / head gasket longevity become serious concerns. At 10 PSI or under we can expect the most and longest life of our small block Chevy.

The biggest killer of our engine will be heat, and consequently detonation. To battle this we need a cooling system up to the task, and a timing profile suited to our boost level and octane rating.
Cooling system:
Nothing less than a Nice 2-Row 1”/1 ¼” Aluminum Radiator will suffice. Griffon sells these for roughly $189 for the 1” and about $289 for the 1 ¼”. (Summit) Is the extra ¼ worth it? If you live in place that’s ALWAYS cold then probably not. But if you like to drive your car in 80*+ weather, then yes. Especially at sea level (here in Florida). The water pump should be anything but stock. Even the pretty cheap summit water pump will suffice. Stewart is the choice of many hot-rodders, and for good reason. The Stewart stage2 water pump is a little pricy, but no one has had a complaint yet. Expect to pay about $150 here. (Stewart) I, myself, used a summit pump (heh). And finally, the cooling ability of the radiator comes back to the fans. Yes fans. Use an electric fan, those flex-fans are out of date. Time to upgrade man. Flex-a-lite sells a nice Dual electric fan setup with a separate water temp control black box thingy that you can set the temp for the fans to come on at. Using your Holley DFI you can subvert control over to the laptop… either way, its still an excellent fan choice. It fits perfectly in a third-gen camaro size radiator, clears the blower snout, and cools with undying efficiency. Expect to pay about $200 for a nice set of these fans, or any other quality electric fan. Avoid the cheap $89 fans; they will break at the worst times.

Now that we have our cooling setup up to the task of cooling our blown Chevy, we need to determine operating temperature. Why is THAT important? Of all things! Well if you want to get the most from your engine… listen up. Keeping the engine cooler (160-170*F) we noticed the best possible fuel economy on the highway, and generally this kept us pretty far from detonation. It also allowed the most room for boost-induced heat-soak, in which the boost for a long period of time (10-14 seconds of 0-140 MPH bursts) soaks into the engine very FAST. At such low temps (160-170) we had a lot more head room for heat buildup. During a typical ¼ mile run, our engine would start at 165*F and end around 200*F. is this normal? As long as it cools off immediately, yes. If it takes long to come down from 200 back to where you set your fans on (165*F in our case) then NO it is a sign of too much boost/not enough free-breathing exhaust. Oh, where did THAT come from? It’s true; a restrictive exhaust will cause your engine to heat up FAST, ESPECIALLY under boost! Very dangerous, this is! In a street environment, where sound should be kept as quiet as possible, it’s important to realize that exhaust restriction plays a major role in keeping a forced induction engine happy. Headers and as big around exhaust as possible should be used. Our motor doesn’t suffer the “lost torque syndrome” of naturally aspirated engines when they use too big of exhaust.

Kingtal0n

I recommend a mandrel bent, 3”-4” exhaust (when dual exhaust cannot be used) with headers of course, the big ones (1 ¾ primaries) and as un-restrictive a muffler as possible. (Ours is a Delta-flow flow master… not super-load and very un-restrictive. They also offer the American thunder and 40 series both of which are fine.) I would, however, point out that flow master is not the IDEAL Company to purchase mufflers from for a boost platform. A Borla or Raven or Dynomax or even a standard run of the mill “turbo” muffler will produce adequate results.

With that said, we now know about heat, exhaust, water temps, and boost levels. Now let’s go on about TIMING.
Timing is CRITICAL. If you do nothing else, set your timing correctly.
The DFI Holley setup will explain how to make your laptop control timing. I’m not going over that now. What I AM going over is the timing advance LIMITS for safe-street driving.
Base timing should be between 10* and 12* with the cam mentioned above. More timing will be needed if a more radical cam is selected, but note more radical doesn’t mean more power. The blower makes the power, not the cam. Adding more lift/duration will only hurt low end torque and make throttle response more sluggish.
With 10-12 base timing, we want to see a total of 40-45* of timing on the highway during cruise situations. Why so much? Well during cruise when vacuum is highest, there is very little cylinder pressure (compared to WOT that is) and advancing the timing will mean less fuel will be needed to create the same amount of power. Thus, using such huge advance profiles, we get the maximum from our economy point of view. This will also attempt to heat the engine up, so we are back to having the best possible cooling setup.
Now for WOT and boost situations, we want roughly:
No more than 31* of timing during a 5 PSI boost run with 92 Octane fuel and water temp of 180 or less with aluminum heads and 9:1~ compression.
No more than 30* of timing during a 6 PSI boost run with 92 Octane fuel and water temp of 180 or less with aluminum heads and 9:1~ compression.
No more than 29* of timing during a 7 PSI boost run with 92 Octane fuel and water temp of 180 or less with aluminum heads and 9:1~ compression.
No more than 28* of timing during a 8-10 PSI boost run with 92 Octane fuel and water temp of 180 or less with aluminum heads and 9:1~ compression.

Remember your DFI has a knock sensor. Use it. Check it. Record graphs and do endless research on your engine to see what timing profile it LIKES. These are just guidelines to get you started; you have the tools, now do the work. Maximum fuel efficiency awaits.


With the combo above (355, 700R4 (2800 Stall ACT), 10-bolt (3.42), Holley DFI, Weiand 177 etc…)
We made 520 Ft. Lbs of torque and 510 Horsepower, at the flywheel, with 5 PSI of boost.


At the tires? Outstanding 428 torque (13% loss) and 429 Horsepower (14% loss)
With a CRAZY 400~ Ft. Lbs of torque from 1000 RPMS to 4400 RPMS (almost a straight line!)
And an insane 430 horsepower at 5400 RPMS!
I run 92 octane all the time, and a conservative 30* of total timing under 5 PSI of boost. I keep the car at 170* always. My exhaust is flow master mandrel bent American thunder cat-back with cheap hedman shortie headers and their Y-pipe to fit. My hood is stock with a hole cut around the blower and a removable (yes removable!) cowl on top of it (so I can show off the blower whenever). This all sits in a 1989 Camaro RS hard top with the original RS badges, and a stock sounding motor. (Love that cam!) It has the original suspension and a simple addition of sub-frame connectors strengthened the chassis. The rims are 9.5” wide Solid Welds, and house 275/60/R15 tires. And my damn flex plate shield never fit correctly so it rattles and rattles! Argh!! Err... where were we? Oh yeah.
We get (I get) 21-23 MPG (I say 21 and my friend seems to think 23 my dad says it gets 14 MPG but hes always into the boost…) on the street and an outstanding 23-24 MPG on the highway during a 2000 RPM cruise (75~ MPH)
Our ¼ mile time with no traction and a 2.0 60. Ft. time always between 12.56 @ 117 and 12.06 @ 119 and if you think these times are messed up you are RIGHT. Remember, no slicks… no hooking… that’s the key to longevity and fun fun fun! Some people are impressed with tire smoke… others? Horsepower and 1.4 times. I am more impressed with how a car idles, drives, responds, and how efficiently it uses that precious fuel than anything else. Oh yeah, and did I mention how well it shreds the tires? :-D

email me if you want to know more about this car and setup.
Kingtal0n@aol.com

maroon91rs

:hail: :hail: :hail:

StocRoc

iTrader: (1)

WOW!! Very nice post, lots of good info.

92BlAcK_RSLO3

Can you please post some pics of your engine, and car .

Also did this mod weight a lot, how weel the car handles?

You did not mention brakes, suspenssion, driveshaft, rear upgrades? you think you dont need then (Because the way you use the car) or you have plans on some of them.

Have you ever tried anywhere a top speed run? :lala:

Thanks for the inspiration. :hail:

89ProchargedROC

i'll admit i didn't read a lot of it.....but you SHOULD NOT have to align bore/hone an engine unless it is absolutely needed OR you plan on over 800hp

with a 500hp motor, as long as the caps are in spec, there is no reason to align hone/bore them

daverr

iTrader: (1)

i really doubt ull get 21 miles per gallon.9.5 inch converter on the street = goodbye mileage.

dave

Greasemonkey

9.5 inch LOCKUP converter.

True Power

Correct me if i'm wrong, but DFI = Accel, right? DFI isn't just a universal term

Kingtal0n

Whew lots of replys! lets go through them starting with:
The reason it was align BORED and HONED was because On the first engine buildup we split a main cap. Instead of replacing the block we just replaced the main, and had to align bore it because of that. Ill post a pic of that asap. its here... somwhere...

heh, yep. lockup is a prime key to fuel economy. especially on the highway. the car will see lockup as soon as 13 MPH in 2nd gear on the street however. the trans-go kit and pressure switch sees to that.

Actually DFI = digital fuel injection. Accel DFI is just a type of DFI. Holley offers several kits, and the cheapest is the one mentioned above. it came with a 1-bar map which was upgraded to a 2bar for boost. everything fell into place nicelly... holley calls their kit the "Commander 950 4Di"
Part #: 950-21S Commander 950TM 4-bbl, 900 CFM
$1399 in summit
Check it out
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin...B/950-21S.html

The brakes are stock, as it is driven on the street and we had a budget. suspension? stock. yeah, it sucks. I spin em without trying, and when I hit a big bump my fender takes a gouge out of my tire. Suspension is next on my list.
Driveshaft? the car HAD a TH350, so we just shortened the shaft 3" to fit the 700R4. balanced, of course. Rear upgrades? if you consider: 1989' 10 bolt, 28 spline axles, Auburn Posi unit, 3.42 Richmonds, and strong cool cover (they say the stronger covers help ALOT... who am i to argue?) an upgrade then yes its upgraded. I dont expect to hook up anytime soon however... that wasnt the point.
I would like to use the stock rims though, simply to maintain a stock look as close as possible.

<b>Have you ever tried anywhere a top speed run?</b>
heh the car was just recently (2 weeks ago) finished and I am still tuning it to death. I started off with Holley's base fuel/spark map however, and it sort of just fell right into place. with more tuning im sure I will see more fuel economy.


For an update Ill mention that the stock fuel lines are just BARELLY adequate. Near the end of a graph I can see the fuel pressure dropping off a little, and the computer is increasing the on-time of the injectors to compensate I suppose. which makes sense, you can set all those parameters with the holley setup. I spent 5 hours going over the startup enrichment however before the car actuall started and idled... what a job! the base map wasnt even close. this engine needed ALOT more fuel to start and idle!
Here are some pics of the buildup. Be patient I havnt had a digital camera for a while and have not got many updated pics, but most of the engine buildup I have.
here is the broken main cap:

Kingtal0n

Here is the file fit process:

Kingtal0n

and another:

Kingtal0n

bearings and main studs, as in the text above:

Kingtal0n

Me and my pistons and rods. Look in the top right corner, you can see most of them.

Kingtal0n

cleaning it up...

Kingtal0n

blower in the car, originally, without the overdrive tranny, or upgraded rear end.
check my SIG for more of those pics.

aziroc

or u can just do what i did .. and then with the nitrous.. u have well over 500 hp to the rear wheels

Kingtal0n

a but whats your fuel economy look like? And how often do you have to refill that bottle

there are many ways to go about it. this is just one, and its a bit cheaper than most. building a stout 406 with multi point EFI i would imagine cost a pretty penny.

Jer82Z28

excellant post!

Dewey316

Kingtal0n,

What size cowl is that?

i am trying to referance the size of the blower on a camaro.

Kingtal0n

my cowl WAS a 2.5" cowl. it barelly fit (touched the aircleaner) with a 2" DROP BASE aircleaner. Dont go any smaller than a 4" cowl for a blower, unless you like to choke your engine with drop base air cleaners. the new blower, weiand 177, is 2" higher. it needed an extra 2" cowl and STILL has a crappy drop base air cleaner. the X-treme lid sort of fixes that though, thank you K&N.

askulte

Good post! Ya have to love EFI. The Z28tt got around 24 mpg during a 500 mile trip down to Charlotte, including a few blasts out of toll booths. Your fuel lines are plenty large enough, you just need a larger pump. Don't run lean!

FyreLance

That was a massive post.

Sounds like you've got quite a machine going there

Air_Adam

Can hear that sucker from my house

383backinblack

way to mount your ignition box exactly where your not supposed to. it can get nice and cool under the hood and exposed to plenty of moisture. exactly where I would have put it

Kingtal0n

The ignition box doesnt EXIST anymore. If you read correctly, (which you didnt I assume) you would have read that SINCE THAT TIME I have COMPUTER CONTROLLED TIMING which means I NO LONGER HAVE AN MSD 6BTM to retard my timing...

Instead my MAP sensor says "oh, look. Boost." and retards my timing.

Put one and one together and you have...

Not to say your WRONG 383... that ignition box IS in a bad place. Whoever decided to put it there should be shot. (IT WASNT ME!)

And one more thing... if you look around LOTS of people put their boxs right there. LOTS of people. not to say its RIGHT, but even MSD mentions that it can "take vibrations and heat" and that installing it under the hood is NO PROBLEM. though they mention somthing about heat or other... i wasnt paying attention.

383backinblack

ya man i see morons with boxes like that up at the NED all the time (usually ricers).

i mounted mine on the passenger side of the console inside the car, it seems to work pretty well there

Kingtal0n

say on that note, since im not using it OR the pro billet distributor anymore, I sent it to MSD to be re-furbished (again, got it out of a trash can the first time then re-mounted it where the 6AL was, where my good friend put it the first time, which is why it is where it was... or somthing) and msd's goina make it like new for me for like $40 or somthing, including the distributor and shipping.

pretty nice of them, just throwing that in. Ill prolly sell em on Ebay. Msd has helped me out alot, highly recommended and customer service sent me free stuff when i complained

tyty49

Thanks for your wounderful article. I allready saved this puppy .

I'm considering doing this type of swap however I would like to get a centrifugal (SP???) S/C with some type of EFI. Do you have any suggestions??

Drastius

Wow very nice write up, well written too. If I had the money right now I would be tempted to go out and build a duplicate.

Just wondering one thing, how come you went with H-beam rods? Aren't most forged I beams strong enough, and a bit cheaper?

Kingtal0n

<b>Aren't most forged I beams strong enough, and a bit cheaper?</b>

yes the Ibeams are cheaper and lighter and probably just as good for this application. If I did it again I probably WOULD use the Ibeams. From eagle.

But... the H-beams, at the time, sounded better... they ARE stronger but man.. 650 grams each... ouchy. I can still spin it to 6500 rpms... but its not like I enjoy doing it!

<b>however I would like to get a centrifugal (SP???) S/C with some type of EFI. </b>

You can do what Im doing next...
Holley Stealth Ram setup ($2300) and an
ATI D-1SC Procharger setup ($3500)

750 horsepower, 25 MPG. even better right? and the best part is the engine and tranny and rear end I already HAVE will handle all that stuff. (long as I dont hook up )

tyty49

The 700R4 can handle that much? I that the max was something like 600hp?

Kingtal0n

torque is straight forward raw abuse. just because the engine puts out 600 Lbs of torque, doesnt mean the tranny is absorbing 600 lbs of torque.

the maximum capacity for a full-out race 700R4 is about 500 Lbs of torque.

I may not know much about the laws of physics taking place in a transmission, but i know that resistance breaks parts. moving parts want to move one direction, (like tires) but if they cant, there is resistance in the opposite direction right?

It only takes so much torque to break loose a street tire. my lil 305 can break my tires loose. gearing helps even more.

its that resistance the transmission sees that wears it out. resistance to turning. if there was no driveshaft/rear end/tires to turn, just an output shaft, the tranny would never break.

this means that so long as the resistance to turning (slicks) and sudden hits (transbrakes) are reduced, the tranny may have 1000 ft.lbs of torque moving THROUGH it, but most of it is going up in tire smoke. and then, when everything moves up in speed (MPH.. gearing...) momentum has built up, and it becomes less stressful to move your car... therefore that 750 horsepower accelerating your car from 80 MPH to 140 MPH doesnt hurt NEAR as much as a 700 Lbs of torque moving you from 0 MPH to 30 MPH. its less of a hit, less stress, less sudden movement, and less wear and tear.

this is how my tranny will survive. this is how its been surviving. I put a set of slicks on and a T-brake and both my tranny AND rear end will blow. probably all at once too.
And thats without making ANY modifications the engine, without adding even 1 Lb of torque.
See? it all works out. Im no rocket science major but I know enough to keep my tranny in one piece.

B4Ctom1

thats part of the reason the weak *** T5 lasts until it gets hit with slicks or radials hook and unload, hook and unload (wheelhop). Its also the reason a th350 I built using napa parts kit and a transgo shiftkit was surviving a light novas abuse w/ a 468 on nitrous running high 10's for 3 years at a time before needing freshened.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You guys may want to check in with what some of the Sy/Ty guys are doing. With aftermarket billet steel main drums there are a few claiming reliable 700's up to the 800-1000lb/ft range with wheel standing launches.

(of course, a Sy/Ty guy's definition of reliable could be questioned, if you've ever tried to keep one of those truckletts running...)

dans82bird

Sell me your hood jordan! stupid stocker wont fit with the holley in (well it does but i can't fit an airfilter )

Kingtal0n

I dont think you want my hood dan. its all beat up.

aziroc

well.. i added anotehr 150hp (nitrous), the 200 jets are going in this weekend(finally) and when i went to the track about a month ago my 700R4 handeld everything perfectly.. as well as that 10 bolt .. but im sure its a matter of time with that 10 bolt. granted i added eevrything i could to maek it stronger.. but still.. a 10 botls a 10 bolt.

dans82bird

i dun give a **** i need a hood that will fit my setup

Kingtal0n

okay dan. $100 plus your current hood and you have a deal.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Nice work man. It gives me ideas. Street driveability is what I am after. I don't live that close to a track and I am not really into burnouts either. I am just beginning my work on my car and you have given me alot to think about. Of course I won't have the budget you have to work with. Nice work man.

ckeene502

i got a syclone with 19000 miles....trans. is just fine.


keene

383backinblack

ya know what man? F*ck you.......ya know why? cause you have a syclone and i dont.

hehe

j/k man :rockon:

ATOMonkey

Just to clear up the whole torque vs. power issue with the tranny. The tranny will only experience as much torque as the tires will generate. For instance, and engine making 100 ft-lbs is multiplied by the fist gear, lets say 3.0 and then by the rear 3.0 again. That's 900 lb-ft at the tires in theory(100% hook like with slicks). If the tires can only develop 300 lb-ft then the drive shaft only sees 100 lb-ft, which is much easier on the tranny. Power is the amount of work(torque) that can be done in a certain amount of time. Trannies are sometimes power rated because the gears can simply not accelerate fast enough without breaking, even with no traction.

For those of you abusing stock parts, there is something called material fatigue. This is not the same fatigue that people feel. The parts don't get weaker. What happens is that after a certain number of compression and tension stresses on a material it will form a crack. After that the crack will spread. In some materials the crack spreads much faster than others. So the lesson here is that just because the rear held one 100hp shot doesn't mean it'll do it again.

383backinblack

thats what i said

Acidtalons

bump

Kingtal0n

whats "bump" mean?

Is that javanese for "im goina bump on outa here"?

or is that "im gonna die bunping"?

or maybe you meant "bump is bump like the hump on the sump of my .. er... gas tank"

i know theres some underlying meaning to the word, but i simply cannot figure this one out

Acidtalons

bump is message board slang on various board for when you are BUMPing a thread up to the top. I just thought it was a really great post and it was getting low on the board so i replied to move it up.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

For whatever reason he wants to bump it back up to the top of the message board (not sure what more needs to be said). Same as TTT (To The Top)

Kingtal0n

hey thanks