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I have been talking to a friend who used to own a nitroused third gen and misses it and now really really loves to tune duramax's about building a thirdgen duramax.
I have been talking to a friend who used to own a nitroused third gen and misses it and now really really loves to tune duramax's about building a thirdgen duramax.
aside from the $3,000 sets of STOCK injectors that tend to die, crankshafts randomly breaking at the #2 rod journal, and pistons cracking, i love mine.
Some of these failures are common on V8 diesels in general, not just to Duramax
We are figuring to buy a wrecked van with an LLY/4L80e combo and use as much of the drivetrain and harness as we can.
i would do an '06 LLY or LBZ+ just for the injector setups. injector reliability is also much better. stronger block too.
downside is pistons that are more prone to cracking and imo a crank that is more prone to breaking than the earlier dmaxes. -but its worth it for the LBZ injector setup.
I must say Brian loves the LBZ's. I know very little about specific differences.
I also don't know if there are any LBZ vans or other LBZ offerings that come with a 2WD 4L80e already that we can put in?
Since we already have our work cut out for us, finding something cheap enough to start the project, and something complete enough to use without buying other major unmatched assemblies and trying to patchwork them together is part of our starting goals.
We figure the simpler we can get it together to begin with the more changes we can roll with later after a proof of concept. We will also have the option of keeping the thing the way it is produced, keeping the tune conservative, and have a street bruiser with economy.
Most of the outlay will be out of Brian's pocket. Aiming for the moon out of the box will make this stillborn.
I want a recipe for 800 hp and 35 mpg to run 9's or maybe 8's with nitrous in a passenger car.
Hi Tom, honestly I am disappointed in nitrous. Any random engine can put down 500-800 horsepower (for however brief of an instant) by injecting the air in pill form. If you had asked for a 800horsepower recipe WITHOUT nitrous going 9's... well thats just any random (3L->6L) engine (any manufacturer) with anywhere from (28psi @ 3L -> 18psi @ 6L and lower redline), and the 1/4 mile as we all (should) know by now is just traction->gearing for that power.... and to top it all off, with gasoline engines, efficient late model designs, the fuel economy comes down to the final weight. (3800lbs@27~mpg, 2800lbs@32~mpg, 2400lbs@36~mpg) I know diesel does much better and with heavier vehicles.
... and Its still just silly maths.
and you dont need to nitrous anything unless your turbine is so heavy and the displacement is so low that you need to "jump start" it with a small dosage of air in pill form
I SAY, we need more video coverage. I used to think i wanted to top swap a 3.8v6. If your looking for a daily driver i drive a 99 zx2 escort. Freaking sweet machine. All out performance, have to love the torque you get from a v8. Sure you can get the same peak power from a small motor but i think the fun part is the torque.
Last edited by 11ellswray; 11-14-2013 at 03:51 PM.
Very good article. Nicely written. Do you think that your head and cam selection along with the weiand 177 will play nicely with 8.5-1 SC all forged 383. The reason I ask is because I all ready have the forged 383 and I was looking for power and fuel mileage when I came across your article. Thanks.
This is so old. Like 20 years almost. check the dates.
My latest idea is
5.3L Gasoline, 3200lbs, 4l80e, 3.5:1 rear, 26" tires. Approx 2500rpm cruise 70~mph, getting 22-23mpg max so far.
basically what I am looking for these days is 800ft*lbs of torque capable drivetrain for < $1000 with 26+mpg and so far I am a long way off at 22~ presumably because of that 4l80e.
Problem with the 4l60's and 700's is that they are very expensive and still complain about racing situations. I built my last 700 almost 15 years ago and I will never use one again. Whereas the 4l80e doesn't even care what you are doing, its just an enormous 220lbs monster that whips the car around however it wants. I think I am going to do another one but this time just bite the bullet and use a 6-speed. It will cost 4x as much for the transmission and it will be slower, but it should surpass 26mpg easily with the same rear.
next car maybe
Progress pic for fun
These days I am more into stealth and comfort. Stock sounding exhaust systems on monsters that shouldn't be legal.
Just a fun project for driving around SFL couple years while I finish at FAU.
Shoutout to crossfireTA and B4Ctom for all the support over the years while I was a kid learning about this stuff!
Ha I stared reading this and I was like WOW this guy is ambitious to make 520hp, why all of this work, just toss a 5.3L in the damn thing. Then I noticed the date It then all made sense!
Ha I stared reading this and I was like WOW this guy is ambitious to make 520hp, why all of this work, just toss a 5.3L in the damn thing. Then I noticed the date It then all made sense!
Jay
What's funny to me is that in terms of the era, a 5.0L from an exploder in a fox body with a T66 would have likely met these parameters or come very close with a 4 speed and good engine management. Maybe even in a heavier F-body a TPI engine with a T66. I would have skipped the blower for sure and probably gone with a Vortec 350 "cam and valve springs only" setup with a turbocharger.
since its at the top anyways I won't be 'bumping' the thread so wth (I avoid posting just to bring stuff ttt unnecessarily)
Originally Posted by B4Ctom1
Now you are the master LOL
It is great to see you are still kicking! I like when some things don't change.
Originally Posted by Jay_rich
Ha I stared reading this and I was like WOW this guy is ambitious to make 520hp, why all of this work, just toss a 5.3L in the damn thing. Then I noticed the date It then all made sense!
ikr!; I'm famous for going into random threads and telling people to stop trying to build $15,000 engines to make 700 when $free 5.3L engines do it more reliably these days.
I'm going to swap it for a 4.8 in search of a fraction of mpg and a teeny bit of rev range. Same bore as the 5.3L so not losing any P/A on the surface at least. And since the turbo makes power not the engine, it won't matter to the rwhp numbers at the end anyways.
Originally Posted by Drac0nic
What's funny to me is that in terms of the era, a 5.0L from an exploder in a fox body with a T66 would have likely met these parameters or come very close with a 4 speed and good engine management. Maybe even in a heavier F-body a TPI engine with a T66. I would have skipped the blower for sure and probably gone with a Vortec 350 "cam and valve springs only" setup with a turbocharger.
I am sure, there is/are a ton of combos that yield similar results. 2jz-gte is my favorite, perfect plug access, tons of support, easy manifold/turbo solutions, factory girdle/oil squirts/etc... its just amazing from the same year as my 5.3 (2002~)
The issue however, is cost, or for me that is the issue at least. A 2jz engine for example easily costs 8x to 10x as much as a random 4.8/5.3. With the Chevy solution I can have as many engine failures as I want and the car won't ever be down even when I have $0.00 to spare (the motors are essentially free, I have spares for days and friends trying to give me spares all day). With anything else in that power range (600-700)- it can get very expensive. This latest swap was one of mere convenience and affordability, not necessarily 'the best engine for the job'.
Annd I guess another progress picture because words without pictures is boring
In this pic I added IAT finally, and some more shields. They now (not pictured yet) present a path for liquid water to rain down (via $1 water pump I keep inside the car w/ open loop controller) that cools the pipe/iat in the picture, bellhousing, balancer, and the whole side of the car where the turbo is (thus pulling heat out of the turbo region for both reliability and cooler shut downs).
Cheers everyone, if I see you broken down on the side of the road just know I will always stop and try to help.
ikr!; I'm famous for going into random threads and telling people to stop trying to build $15,000 engines to make 700 when $free 5.3L engines do it more reliably these days.
I'm going to swap it for a 4.8 in search of a fraction of mpg and a teeny bit of rev range. Same bore as the 5.3L so not losing any P/A on the surface at least. And since the turbo makes power not the engine, it won't matter to the rwhp numbers at the end anyways.
A lot of these "junkyard builds" are why the NHRA and IHRA require engine diapers now. Guys sticking bug turbos on stock 5.3's and grenading the block all over the track, and delaying the race day by an hour or more while they clean the nightmare.
You don't need the greatest heads or the best intake, but I encourage people to invest in a good block + rotating assembly, valve springs, etc. Engine failures at the track screw everyone over.
A lot of these "junkyard builds" are why the NHRA and IHRA require engine diapers now. Guys sticking bug turbos on stock 5.3's and grenading the block all over the track, and delaying the race day by an hour or more while they clean the nightmare.
You don't need the greatest heads or the best intake, but I encourage people to invest in a good block + rotating assembly, valve springs, etc. Engine failures at the track screw everyone over.
-- Joe
I agree that the average mechanic/enthusiast does not seem to have the sensitivity to such an engine's needs at high output.
Built engines are just as if not more likely to to grenade, due to the skill required for assembly and potential for misuse/misconfig during. It lends an even greater chance for disaster.
Even if one is built properly, now the owner will turn it up even higher, an even greater explosion is possible, more nitrous will be used, more risk taken, because 'bullet proof' internals.
I would point out that the factory 3.0L Toyota cast piston engine from 2002 is OEM ~440rwhp capable, and many have withstood the test of time at 800rwhp for over 10 years. What I am trying to say is that, with 5L or 6L, a similar feat of output should not only be possible, given their history, it should be more reliable than at 3L if for no other reason than a lower cylinder pressure spread out over more cylinders. From what I've seen, it isn't the engine's fault (factory internals) when they fail, but rather an owners ignorance or poor parts choices. Few owners do everything themselves, properly, using the right parts.
Daily drivers seem to do best with OEM engines, it is the only realistic option when you only own 1 car.
What I consider 'junkyard builds' is typically corners being cut, cheap turbos and cheap injectors, that sort of garbage is rampant and I believe the second leading cause of failures, after ignorance.
I've never lost an engine and I would not trust a cheap turbo/injectors/etc... on a reliable daily driver. By using only high quality components, OEM style turbocharger and reputable injectors for example, and being sensitive to the needs of such a setup, it should be possible to get ~100k of reliability from a moderate output vehicle (in addition to the 100k it already has).
Personally, Do not let my talk of 'explode as many engines' worry you. My intention is not to 'splode any engines at all; It was merely a matter of statistical interface where I made a decision based on availability and "worst case scenario"- for an engine may fail for any number ofnon-power related reasons, such as oil pump, camshaft bearing, oil leak, etc... where I needed to be able to replace the powerplant for negligible cost. I do not, have not ever seen an engine fail while at max output, even after tuning around ~100 random engines for various vehicles (friends for 15 years that never lost an engine either), it makes me feel that such a failure is rare when we are careful and observant, use the right tools and equipment.
07-02-2011, 12:44 PM
