Them turbos spool fast. I'm at 9psi before I know it. Car hauls some serious ***. Now I have this insane radiator problem. It just keeps blowing water out. I have no T-Stat and no heater hoses hooked up and it worked fine before. I can't feel any water going through the top hose at all. Car just heats up, blows out steam then water. Here is a pic of how the radiator is. I just have the top and bottom big hoses hooked up, that's it. Worked before, now it won't. Been working on it for a couple of hours now and can't get it. HELP. Also, on my boost gauge I have no vacuum reading only boost. I have that hooked up to my bonnet. Do I need to move that to see vacuum? I really don't care about seeing vac on the gauge but it's just cool to see gauges move around. But other than those probs it ran great. On the freeway for some reason it was cutting out and wanting to die then stopped doing it. Hmmmm. But the test drive went good. I'm happy.

Brad...

 

Hmmm.... excessive pressure in the coolant is a bad thing. Its a sign of compression leaking past the head gaskets. Its possible you have popped a head gasket.

However congrats getting it going. good luck on getting the water problem sorted. cheers, BW

 

I don't think that's the problem. The car ran fine and I had that problem last week when I just fired it up without the turbos hooked up and it still blew steam and water everywhere. I thought I got it but I guess not. Even with the cap off, it runs for a bit then start boiling blowing out everywhere all over everything. Makes a huge mess. This is really frustrating/pissing me off.

Brad...

 

Oh ya, I almost forgot. Those turbos sound killer when you get down on it. I love that noise. I think I fixed my rad prob. I let it cool down (again) and added a bunch more water, fired it up let it run till it got good and hot and my fan came on and hooked a hose to it into a gallon of water about half full and it didn't blow out and as I was filling it it was circulating. Was circulating before but.... Hopefully I'm done with it.

Brad...

 

Your vacuum/ boost guage will read both vacuum and boost if you hook it up to full manifold vacuum on the carb.

Be carefull overheating is a sign of a lean mixture under boost.
Keep your total ignition timing conservative and your carb jetting rich. How is your exhaust temps and AFR guage while under full boost? If you use a big primary jet but also and
primary rod with a thick (lean) cruise dia and a thin (rich) power step dia, your cruise AFR will remain economical and you'll ensure enough fuel enrichment for WOT/ Boost conditions.
Cooler heat range spark plugs may help too.

hows your fuel pressure while under boost? Is it
referencing to the boost? Should be 12psi minimum a
WOT with 9psi turbo boost.

 

My car wasn't overheating when I was driving it. The A/F gauge was rich the whole time. My EGR's were around 1200 and I don't have a fuel PSI gauge hooked up. The one I bought has the isolator and it's just a nightmare to install so I passed on that. If they made an electric one that wasn't 100's of dollars I'd get it. My timing is at 6 deg base no vac adv and 34 deg at 3000 at or around. I didn't hear any pinging so far. Got a few little things to take care of before I go out again. That sound amplifier looks cool. Might have to make one of those. I have to work Mon&Tues so wed or thurs I'll take it out again. It sure was fun to drive though. I also have to make downpipes for the wastegates. They have no pipes on them yet, just dumping right at the end of my headers. I'm not gonna plumb them into my exhaust. They'll just be open under the car somewhere. Jetting that carb was easy. Never done it before. And I also put in the bigger needle and seats. Working on carbs isn't so bad. The track around here opens in Feb. Can't wait. That should be fun.

Brad...

 

Very cool brad... erm... when can I have a ride?


I'd ask if you'd want to dyno it in portland with the rest of cascade who are going for the dyno gathering but it sounds like you've still got a bit to do as far as a long trip would be concerned...

looks very nice though, you should post at the CC board more often, we miss ya

definately looking forward to being able to see the car run at the strip, maybe you vs. craig or something

 

34 deg total timing is too much for a non intercooled turbo motor.
Let alone one with reletivly hi compression on 92 octane.

back 'er down to 27/28 total for now. You can limit the travel of the advance weights in the distributor so you can run lots of initial timing 10/12deg and limited total timing while under boost.
27/28 total is safe for now while tuning and will not reduce power much. You may not hear the detonation ( without the "ears")
But it can wreck the motor before you realize it.

read up on water injection, on the net.
It will allow much more boost and/or timing while under boost
for a said octane fuel. With a lot more safety.

A vacuum/ fuel pressure guage duct taped to the outside of the window will do for a fuel pressure guage in a pinch.

I'm very interested on how you make out with this project.

I've started to search for some T-Bird turbos already.

 

I had a fuel gauge hooked up and bolted to the inside of my cowl hood but it bounced around so much that I just took it off. The mech. pump kinda sucks with a fuel gauge. I might hook that up again though. I do get a little paranoid not knowing. I'll play with the timing like you said. I have the springs and weights to mess with. So if I put in lighter springs I'll have more timing at idle and I'll still get 27-28 at higher rpms? I still get confused on this timing thing. Haven't messed with it in a while. Hey Demon, you gonna go to SIR in Feb? Got your car running?

Brad...

 

anything is possible...

I've decided I'm not going to keep my car buddy... I'm aiming to move onto something new, something a bit different that'll be a daily driver till I finish the engine/tranny/rearend for it (unless of course it comes with no engine/transmission then I'm sorta just stuck with my truck hehe) ... sorta time for me to move on and let the camaro go, not driving it for 3 years has sort of made it the center of all my negative crap lately... I'll get another one later down the road to play with, but for now its best I don't have one

But either way, yeah I should be hitting SIR a couple of times to atleast watch this year and hang out...

You need AIM or MSN ya know?

 

If you want to limit the amount of mechanical timing
you have to restrict the travel of the weights.
Changing the springs will not adjust this, they only adjust the
rate of advance.
You limit the amount of advance by blocking the travel of the
weight pins that travel in the slot.
Remove the distributer to do this. There are limiter bushings you can slip over the pin to limit advance. Or you can weld up the slot a bit.

You can and should still be using vacuum advance.
You still need it for cruising. You may have to adjust the amount of vacuum advance and rate.

Get the total timing right first, then modify the advance curve
and amount to get the best idle timing.

 

awesome!! sounds very fast..

 

what was your total cost for the TT setup (everything besides your engine)? You're gonna write a tech article on everything, right?

 

The cost did run a bit much. Probably $2000 + I didn't buy any junkyard crap. The turbos I got off of e-Bay for $650, wastegates $440 Gauges $200 Torch $400 Argon gas $80 steel and flanges $250 plus nuts and bolts and gaskets and all that nickel and dime crap that always gets you. It adds up. I'm thinking of making a website for it. I still have a cam and lifters $225 I haven't used yet and a fuel gauge $110 I'm not gonna use and an oil/tranny cooler I haven't installed yet. I'll post the URL for it when my lazy *** gets around to it.

Brad...

 

what are you doing to incress your fual pressure with the boost?

 

I have a tube running from the bonnet to the fuel pump. As boost goes up so does the fuel pressure, in theory anyway. Seems to be working.

Brad...

 

Did you get your water temp issue fixed? If not, are you using a water pump from a serpentine belt setup? They rotate the wrong way for the type of belt you are using.

As far as your boost / vacuum gauge goes, you have to have the gauge hookup to a port below the throttle blades to see vacuum. There is a spot on your carb for it. Dont use the one on the carb that is above the throttle blades when they are closed. If you are already using the full vacuum port on the carb for timing or whatever, you can pull it off the spot your power brake hose goes into the intake with the correct fitting (I did a little junkyard scrounging for mine).

 

Kick a$$ bhass! I'm jealous now! Can't wait to hear the next installment of test and tune..

Cheers!

 

Very nice setup. Glad to hear you're getting issues worked out.

Listen to FBird'88- he's right on. You will never hear the detonation with your ears 99% of the time but it's still there. 28* max WOT timing for starters.

 

Looks sweet man. Very nice setup. I've been looking at the pics, but still can't tell what you used, was hoping you could help me out here. Those steel-lined rubber hoses clamp onto something that is bolted to the outlet of the turbo, i'm wondering what you used for those pieces? i'm in need of some of them that is why i'm curious. thanks man.

PJ

 

The outlets from the turbos I had to make myself. Just a flange with a 2" hole cut in it and 2 1/2 inches of 2" pipe welded to it.
Damon, I do listen to F-BIRD'88, he's on top of it. I will be retiming it this week when I'm not working. I hate pulling that distributer. Makes me wish I had a Ford motor everytime I have to pull that SOB.

Here is a pic of the wastegate downpipes I just made.

 

is the bottom hose new? if not change it (I have seen them colapse IN the hose). if the hoze does not have a wire in it buy one that has a wire, yank it out & stick it into this one.

Is the pump a reverse cooling pump (serpantine setup)?

Disconnect the top hose from the radiator, & point it down to the ground & see if water comes out of it when you fire it up. even @ idle w/no t-stat in it, you should see a LOT of water come out of it.

Very Cool, BTW, good job.

BW

 

I think I fixed the radiator issue. Seems to be working fine. No hoses collapsed all is good. For now any way. I'm gonna risk driving it to work tonight. It's only 6 miles and 5 of that is freeway which is only like 25 mph around here. Sucks. I will have my cell phone just in case I need a tow I'll post in the morning how that goes.

Brad...

 

No you don't. My brother keeps talking about how easy stuff like that is on a ford, kept bragging about it while taking the hold down clamp off, grabbing it and pulling up. The oil pump driveshaft came up with the distributor (pretty common, they're way weak and tend to twist up) and before he could grab it it dropped back down and dissappeard into the oil pan. After trying to fish it out for 2 days (the engine wasn't coming out at that time) he finally decided to drill a big hole in the front sump of the oil pand and pull it out that way.

BTW... Looks good... did you figure out why it was cutting out on the highway? I don't remember, did you swap cams or keep the one that was in there?

 

That's true. I forgot about that oil pump rod. But in my 289 I built years ago I had a keeper for that so it wouldn't come up with the distributor. Happened to my boss at work on his 460 truck. He was less than pleased. I don't know why it was cutting out. It's a mystery for now. We'll see what happens tonight when I drive it to work. I left that cam in for now. I don't know if it'll be good for this or not. Haven't driven it enough. I should know soon enough though.

Brad...

 

Hey Bhass...I have a Autometer Phantom style 2 1/16" electric fuel pressure gauge that I will sell to you for under a $100...I want to get the new Cobalt style ones, so let me know if you are interested.

 

Well the drive to work went well. Couldn't get into boost since the roads were wet. I did have one small problem. I have oil coming out of one of my compressors. I don't have filters on yet. Which is a good thing cause I wouldn't have seen the oil with them on. Looks like I'm gonna have to rebuid it. Other than that I have to re-route some wires. Some are getting cooked pretty good. Car is running rich as hell to. Before I put the bonnet on I started it up and the A/F gauge would go into the stoic area, but now that it's all hooked up it's like one light away and never goes into the stoic area and I didn't change the primary jetting or rods at all. Would adjusting the IMS screws be a good idea to lean it out just a bit? Other than the oil problem I should be good to go. Can't wait till it drys up outside.

Brad...

 

Hey bhaas, do you have an A/F ratio gauge and an EGT gauge? what kinds/brand are you using? Your setup looks awsome. My car is about 1 1/2 months away from looking like yours and i'm just getting the last few problems squared away as far as all the parts are concerned. :hail:

Billy

 

Bhaas,

Make sure that your turbo oil return lines are not clogged, kinked, or routed below the oil level in your pan...these items will cause oil to come out of the compressor side of the turbo, if all is o.k., then it's probably time for a rebuild like you said.

Great job BTW!!!

later
larry

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=117842

 

I've seen this a bunch of times, sometimes even if the returns are fine, fresh rebuild... most end up putting about a .060" restriction in the oil line and it fixes it. You really only need enough volume to the turbo to maintain about 5psi oil pressure in the bearing housing

 

Brad,

I
Want
A
RIDE

 

TwnTrboZ28, I have an A/F gauge I got from Summit. Part # ATM-4775 and I just bought an O2 sensor from the autoparts store. My EGT gauge I bought from an aircaraft place. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/main.html I bought the dual gauge which has left and right in one gauge. It was much cheaper than Summit. Both gauges work great. I like 'em.

83 Crossfire TA, how would I put a .060 restriction in my line? I'm using brake line. Would crimping it work? Would it be legal at the track to use push lock fittings with plastic hose? We use it for oil lines at work on extruders and it never comes apart. I could put a valve in that and turn the oil pressure down. Sure would be easier. Thanks.

Brad...

 

Most people set something up in the turbo CHRA oil inlet kinda like the repalcable jets used in an N2O setup, it will involve some rigging…

Crimping will work, but I have no idea how you’re going to do it to a controlled amount, it will look like crap and you know that the line will kink and break when you disconnect it some time in the future. An inline valve would be pretty easy to rig, but I would shy away from that since it would be pretty easy to accidentally shut off the oil flow completely.

FWIW, in theory, you shouldn’t have to do this unless the turbos are seeing more then about 50 or 60psi oil pressure or a vacuum (like a dirty air filter in front of it). I believe that Saabs use some insane size (I seem to remember 10mm) hard line coming straight from their oil pump housing mount to feed their T3’s and don’t have problems, but I’ve also seen a lot of aftermarket/home brew setups that have this problem and nothing, even rebuilding the turbos solves it till a restrictor is put in the line. In other words, don’t blame me if you blow things up… be careful with restricting the oil to the turbos and try to get some indication that they’re still getting enough oil. It shouldn’t be necessary, but I’ve seen enough setups doing this that I’m sure that it works.

 

My car used to do that right after I replaced the transmission. It turns out I just need more antifreeze in the coolant. I was running oto much water, water boils at a lower rate and would cause the pressure to go up and pop my radiator cap.

 

I'm running 50 psi through those. I'm gonna work on that today. Goin back to the fitting store and hopefully I'll come up with something. I wanna drive this thing. And that's the only thing holding me back. Besides some wires starting to get cook. But that's a quick fix. Thanks 83.

Brad...

 

I called TurboTech and they said it shouldn't matter how much oil pressure I run, it shouldn't be coming out of the compressor at all. But I'm gonna try restricting the oil and see what that does, if that don't do it, then it's rebuild time.

Brad...

 

BHaas, how large is your return?? I remember a pic I saw and they werén't that big, you'll need something like a -12 or a -16 sized line, the turbos whip up the oil and it comes out looking like dirty whipcream, the returns should have no low spots or horizontal sections where oil can accumulate

Marck

 

I have 5/8 hose on them. I put in a valve to restrict the oil flow. And the **** has a set screw so I can lock it down where I want it. I made 3 trips to the fitting and hose place. Also had them make me some oil lines so I don't have to use that tacky brake line. Looks nice and neat now. Getting ready to put it back together. Hopefully no more oil out the front.

Brad...

 

Well, I worked on the oil problem, took it out for another test on the freeway. Big mistake. I have a serious fuel problem. But let me get to the oil coming out of my turbo prob first. On that test drive I still had oil coming out the front. Didn't care. Wanted to find out why my car would just fall on its face. Well I changed the fuel line from the 3/8 one and went to use the return line like I was doing and it worked fine before I started the turbo project, but I went to the 3/8 line thinking it would be better cause it's bigger and I'd get more fuel. But when I went to use the return line for fuel it worked great. I wasn't holding up traffic on the freeway like allways so I got brave and kept on going. Well I go so far thinking all is cool and I start heading back home and it falls on its face again and I'm way away from home and that side of the freeway was busy. People were pissed. Well anyway. I have to assume my fuel pump is a PO(Holley)S but when it was running it was running damn good and on my third and fourth time of holding up traffic, I'm not getting oil out of the front of my turbo anymore. That problem seemed to fix itself. So either I get a new mech. fuel pump or bite the big one and buy an electric pump and weld some bungs in my gas tank. At least the oil stopped coming out of my turbo. Now I just gotta fix this damn fuel system. Sorry it's so long.

Brad...

 

Good to hear you got the oil prob sorted... I have no idea what to tell you about your fuel problems Keep us posted!

 

Oh man... I hope I didn't lead you the wrong way... I was suggesting the restriction at the turbo. The problem with it at the beginning before your T is that the hose comming straight out and or whichever one is shorter/straighter will flow more then the other, where if you put the restriction at the turbos they'll flow roughly the same. With that setup you may end up with one starving for oil while the other is getting too much.

Hopefully the rest of you teathing troubles will be worked out soon.

 

I'll have to look into that. The one that was leaking does have the shorter hose on it to. I took that off and watched oil come out of the hose while I was adjusting it but I didn't check the other side. Thanks for the heads up. I have to work this weekend and it's nice and sunny, gonna be like that all weekend to. Like summer time here in Washington State. Perfect working on car weather. Oh well. I'll check the other side as soon as I get a chance. And it looks like I'll be pulling that fuel pump off to.

Brad...

 

I know that it is expensive(!) but to solve any fuel problems before they come up I went with the A100 aeromotive fuel pump w/ the rpm referenced voltage regulator and the carb boost referenced fuel regulator. This is just the way i chose to go, I know that you could get by with some thing a lot cheaper that would get the job done. The nice thing about overkill is that once the problem is dead, it stays dead.

Turbo's that fix themselves! HA! Beat that nitrous and supercharger people! j/k

Btw,best of luck and keep the updates coming!

 

Is the fuel system (falling on its face) while cruiseing down the highway? or only while under WOT boost?

Could be a vapour lock problem or somewhere
on the feed side ( low pressure) a hose is collapsing
or overheating or both. A sharp bend or restriction exposed to heat can cause a vapour lock too. What is the fuel pressure gauge doing when the car acts up?


If it is a boost/ pressure problem, hook up a hand pump to the boost reference line and while reving up the motor, pump air pressure to the boost/ reference line and read your fuel pressure.

Should raise in direct proportion to the applyed air pressure.

 

It's falling on its face just cruising down the freeway. No boost. I don't have a fuel gauge hooked up but I'm gonna put one on and watch it. My fuel setup is exactly as it was before I started the TT project except now I'm using a Holley mech. pump. And the fuel lines are away from the motor this time. Before it was half assed and worked. I'm gonna work on it Tues.

Brad...

 

Well here's what I've come up with. I'm thinking that since there is so much vacuum in the fuel tank that it's not letting it flow out. I read somewhere that this is a free flowing pump. ( I have no idea what that means) But I do know that it's not at all like my other one. I'm actually surprised it pumps gas at all. So I'm gonna take my gas cap off and drive it to work tonight. If I have to I'll boost reference my gas tank

Brad...

 

Well that wasn't the problem. Damn I thought for sure it was. Good thing I couldn't wait till I went to work to drive it. Still falls on it's face. Has to be the fuel pump. If I didn't have to work tonight I'd pull it off now. Damn!!!

Brad...

 

Looking good brad.
That front passage that you tapped for the oil lines, is that working out ok for you? Is the pressure good? I seen that it might be too much, but heh, just curious because that is where I'm going to make my line come from if yours works out.

 

I got good oil pressure to the turbos. probably too good. I put a valve inbetween them to slow the oil down. Now if I can just fogure out this fuel problem I'll be good to go. Gonna work on it tomorrow.

Brad...